Vicaine - Prohedonic Opioid-Stimulant Complex

Page 3 of 5 First 12345 Last

  1. Quote Originally Posted by Godstrength View Post
    I'm just saying bro, the guys you have run with don't have the best reputation for putting out quality supps at a decent price. That's putting it nicely.
    I have NEVER been in business with ANYONE who has ripped people off or put out low quality products. Just because I wrote articles for IML does not mean I "ran with" the owners of BSL or anyone else. I never worked for BSL. I never even spoke to Aaron or PJ. Virtually everyone I have been associated with in this business has been considered an upstanding individual. It is no different now. I think you have the wrong idea regarding who I associate with.

    Now while I understand you have since separated yourself with all those people as you stated I hope you will do the reputable thing.
    "All those people"? You mean "one" person? I simply said that I parted ways with my prior business partner because he ripped me off. He had no prior experience in this industry and will probably never enter it again. You make it sound as if I am in need of reformation--like I previously did something wrong and need to be trusted again. Why? I have never NOT done the "reputable" thing in this industry, nor have any of the companies I've worked for.

    You have here one product (NSX-6) that has your name on it MA (Mike Arnold) that your claiming wasn't your fault and you never wanted to make it
    Brother, please stop taking my words out of context and misrepresenting me. The ONLY thing that EVER went wrong with NSX-6 is that the manufacturer put the entire dose in one cap instead of it being split between two caps (because my old business partner accidentally made a mistake and told him to put the entire dose in one cap)...and we told everyone this on both the website and on the boards where we advertised. It was a simple mistake and the product was never compromised. This had nothing to do with morality or ethics in any way.

    No, I never did want to make the product...not because it was bad or because there was anything wrong with it, but simply because it wasn't the vision I had. However, when you have two partners that are both deciding on what gets made, compromise is involved, so I let him choose the first type of product we would make. That was with my old company (SMA labs). Now that we opened MA Labs I have complete control over product design, so the company can move forward according to my own vision.


    Ok listen I'm not going to give you a hard time. I truly hope you turn out to be another diamond in the rough. Heck I love good supplements. I also believe that Redcon1 is an example of someone who ran in that same circle, left and has decided to do something good. A lot of people digging their products.
    "Diamond in the rough"? Brother, you clearly don't know me...and neither do you have any idea what went on at BSL. Aaron was part-owner of BSL and got fired by the other two co-owners for reasons I won't mention here. He was directly responsible (along with his partners) for all the unethical **** that went down there. How you could possibly lump me into the same category as him when I never worked for or even spoke to any of the BSL owners, is beyond me. I never LEFT BSL...because I never worked for them to begin with. I have never been accused of ANYTHINg unethical in this industry. In fact, it's quite the opposite. I am not trying to toot my own horn here, but I am highly trusted everywhere I post and/or advertise...and known as one of the good, honest guys in the industry. Everything you have said in this thread about me, my history, or my company has been completely wrong. If you want to know what people say about me and my products, go see for yourself on the boards where we advertise.

    Hey I believe I am a fairly respected member on the board. You can check some of my posts and logs. I don't have anything against you.
    It's hard to believe that when nearly everything you've said about me is not only negative and/or misleading, but inaccurate.

    I have bought from BSL and IML in the past and I learned my lesson. I hope you set yourself apart brother.
    I agree with you about BSL, but to my knowledge IML has NEVER put out products that didn't contain exactly what the label says...and I have been around IML for a LONG time now. Now, may not LIKE the products you bought from IML, but it wasn't because they didn't contain what the label said they did. Furthermore, that has NOTHING to do with integrity or morality. There are a LOT of companies out there that make products that I don't think work very well, but as long as the label contains what is claimed, you can't accuse them of being morally disingenuous. I can tell you from personal experience that Rob (the owner of IML) is a good guy and has a great rep in this industry for his honesty and sound ethics. Lastly, MA Labs is not IML. Rob ships out all the products and handles the record keeping, but I do all the product design, marketing, advertising, and most other things. I decide which direction the company goes, what gets made, when it gets made, what its price is, where we advertise, etc, etc, etc etc. But one thing I will not tolerate is bashing Rob and his company (IML). You are completely free to dislike IML's products, but don't start attacking him or the way he runs his company. I have known him for many years and he has become a good friend of mine. If you knew him you would know he is one of the "good guys" in this industry...one of the trustworthy ones...and believe me, there are plenty of those who are NOT!
    ...


  2. Quote Originally Posted by SFreed View Post
    Sadly, you know there will be people who buy this product with no thought to what's in it. Then they'll probably double dose it and take it for months on end.

    This is why we can't have nice things.
    Yep. It's unfortunate.
    •   
       


  3. Quote Originally Posted by Plex78 View Post
    I was really considering it until you put it in perspective.. double or nothing has been my motto up until this point
    Yeah, if you are prone to opioid addiction, it's probably not a good idea.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    Did the write-up on the product site mention addiction/dependence/etc? I just did a ctrl+F search for addict (as in addiction/addictive/etc), depend (as in dependence/dependent/etc), and warn (as in warning(s)), and got no hits/results at all. Does the website make it clear the potential for abuse/addiction and why it's imperative not to use it more than four times per week? I'm glad that the dude says he's going to be open/honest/etc on the forum(s), but what about people who find it directly on the website? I don't doubt it's a strong supplement, but, as the saying goes, with great power comes great responsibility.
    It does on the image next to the label (on the website), but I don't go into detail...because we could have our merchant account shut down. But...like I said earlier, it is posted all over the boards where we advertise...and its on the bottles. Not only is there a warning, but it says right on the front of the bottle that it is an "OPIOID". I've done all I can without putting the company at unnecessary risk. I can certainly say I've done a LOT more than anyone else who sells tianeptine and/or tianeptine containing products, that's for sure. I am doing everything I can, brother.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by rtmilburn View Post
    Ya I read the write up now and found the ingredients as well thanks
    No problem.
    •   
       


  6. Quote Originally Posted by rtmilburn View Post
    Thar leads me to my question do you have evidence or anything to suggest that, that dose is safe? As it seems well above what I see any other product have.
    Yes. Clinical research has been conducted on people using over 500 mg/day with no signs of cardiorespiratory depression, hepatic or renal strain, etc.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Mike Arnold View Post
    Not on the website...because we could have our merchant account shut down. But...like I said earlier, it is posted all over the boards where we advertise. I've done all I can without putting the company at risk. I can certainly say I've done a LOT more than anyone else who sells tianeptine or tianeptine containing products, that's for sure.
    Ok. I'm just concerned for people who may come to your website without reading about it on the forums, as it does seem that you're being open/honest/informative here. I understand you not wanting to put the company at risk, but are you putting some people at risk? I have seen some very "uninformative" places selling tianeptine, even as a bulk powder with little or no warnings, but does being better than people who are bad inherently make you good? I do appreciate you being civil and taking the time to respond to me though, so thumbs up for that man! I'm just very passionate about this forum and nootropics/supplements, and I care about the people that use them, so I'm just trying to do my part to ensure everyone is properly educated and aware of what they decide to use.
    Performax Labs Online Rep.
    Facebook.com/pmaxlabs
    www.PerformaxLabs.com

  8. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    I think you misunderstood my post.

    I completely agree that tianeptine is "the real deal," that's a big reason why I bothered to post here. I also agree that someone with depression shouldn't be using opioids, I'm just saying that, as someone who has read a plethora of labels, this "warning" really isn't really all that informative, and it doesn't really "tell the whole story" about tianeptine.
    I put as much as I could on the label. I can't fill up the entire label up with nothing but writing, ya' know? If anything your concern testifies to the dishonesty that is so rampant in this industry...because if other companies hadn't used that warning fraudulently in the past, people would actually take it seriously.

    I see BCAAs with caffeine saying "don't use if you have a history of depression, etc." Of course, consumers should always follow the instructions/directions/warnings, but I'm sure we know that sometimes people need a little "hand holding" or "guidance" to help them know exactly what to expect.

    I am glad that you will be open and honest about the product here, I just wanted to be sure of that, as there is undoubtedly potential for abuse here. I get that there's only so much you can put on the label,
    Thank you. I'm glad you understand that.

    so I appreciate that you'll be open/honest/informative here. Is this something that's only sold online? If it's only online then at least people can easily read about it before buying/using it, unlike just picking it up off a store shelf.
    It's only sold online. I don't think it could be sold in stores. I will put up a thread up explaining the potential risks.
    ....

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Godstrength View Post
    Lol the only one who's reccomended it is the guy selling it.
    100's have recommend it. Want the links?

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Plex78 View Post
    What's the promo code? I'm in, always like trying new stuff. Loved several recommended products on this forum before
    It is: am20

    It will save you 20%.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Ricky10 View Post
    I think I need to buy some bulk Tianeptine to stack with Schizophrenic Psycho. Chase it with some L-Citrulline, TMG, Creatine Monohydrate and Driven Sports Craze is back!
    Sounds bad-ass.

  12. Where's the discount code? Iirc When MA was at BSL the products were awesome. I'm buying some.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Mike Arnold View Post
    Sounds bad-ass.
    Based on just how strong Psycho is (it's definitely stronger than it probably "should" be), that sounds like it'd be really rolling the dice, although it could be quite a ride if it treats you well.
    Performax Labs Online Rep.
    Facebook.com/pmaxlabs
    www.PerformaxLabs.com

  14. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    Ok. I'm just concerned for people who may come to your website without reading about it on the forums, as it does seem that you're being open/honest/informative here. I understand you not wanting to put the company at risk, but are you putting some people at risk? I have seen some very "uninformative" places selling tianeptine, even as a bulk powder with little or no warnings, but does being better than people who are bad inherently make you good? I do appreciate you being civil and taking the time to respond to me though, so thumbs up for that man! I'm just very passionate about this forum and nootropics/supplements, and I care about the people that use them, so I'm just trying to do my part to ensure everyone is properly educated and aware of what they decide to use.
    I guess we could say the same thing about every UGL, every peptide-research company, and even many OTC supp companies that sell stims like DMAA (which is very hard on the cardiovascular system, especially in PED users who already have high blood pressure). Most of these companies do nothing to educate/protect the consumer, despite the fact that many of their products are significantly more dangerous. At least I am doing what I can to educate people, which is way more than they can say...and yes, I think that is most certainly "good". I could be like the other tianeptine vendors, or even peptide-research companies and UGLs, and sell a bunch of drugs that not only come with zero warning, but which have ZERO instructions for use!

    Why do these companies fail to educate the consumer? Because if they do so they would put the company at risk. We accept this because we want access to these products...and no one complains. It's a trade-off we have all accepted. Even if I did the same thing that these companies do I would not be any more worthy of censure than them (they receive basically none). But the thing is...I DON'T do what they do. I actually DO EDUCATE the customer...at my own risk! Yet, you are questioning whether I am "good", even though I have done 100X more than any of them? It doesn't seem fair to me that I can sell a product with comparatively minimal health risk and then be censured after I've attempted to educate the consumer through multiple avenues, while those companies that sell far more dangerous products with zero consumer education efforts receive no censure. Forgive me, but that is wrong. The bottom line is that I have done a lot...and it is the responsibility of each individual to educate themselves before using drugs they know nothing about, ESPECIALLY when there are warnings and directions for use right on the bottle! What would you say of someone bought a bunch of oral AAS from a UGl and then went into liver failure? Would you bash the UGL and scold them for not having information on their website warning people about the potential hepatic dangers of these drugs?

    I am not angry...at all. It just seems like a double standard to me...and quite unfair, especially after knowing all the time I have put into trying to educate people about my products. It is the #1 thing I spend my time on!

  15. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    Based on just how strong Psycho is (it's definitely stronger than it probably "should" be), that sounds like it'd be really rolling the dice, although it could be quite a ride if it treats you well.
    I am not sure what Psycho is. I just figured it was a standard stim-based pre-workout. I don't see any dangerous cardiovascular, hepatic, or renal complications arising from the addition of tianeptine, L-Citrulline, TMG, or Creatine Monohydrate to a stim-based pre-workout. Again, assuming it is a typical stim-based pre-training product, the addition of citrulline would actually be helpful for reducing blood pressure, while the tianeptine would help mitigate the anxiety that is usually associated with stims. There are no contraindications with creatine or TMG either, but then again, there could be something in Pyscho that is potentially problematic when combined with one or more of those compounds.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Mike Arnold View Post
    I guess we could say the same thing about every UGL, every peptide-research company, every UGL, and even many OTC supp companies that sell stims like DMAA (which is very hard on the cardiovascular system, especially in PED users who already have high blood pressure). Most of these companies do nothing to educate/protect the consumer, despite the fact that many of their products are significantly more dangerous. At least I am doing what I can to educate people, which is way more than they can say...and yes, I think that is most certainly "good". I could be like the other tianeptine vendors, or even peptide-research companies and UGLs, and sell a bunch of drugs that not only come with zero warning, but which have ZERO instructions for use!

    Why do these companies fail to educate the consumer? Because if they do so they would put the company at risk. We accept this because we want access to these products...and no one complains. It's a trade-off we have all accepted. Even if I did the same thing that these companies do I would not be any more worthy of censure than them (they receive basically none). But the thing is...I DON'T do what they do. I actually DO EDUCATE the customer...at my own risk! Yet, you are questioning whether I am "good", even though I have done 100X more than any of them? It doesn't seem fair to me that I can sell a product with comparatively minimal health risk and then be censured after I've attempted to educate the consumer through multiple avenues, while those companies that sell far more dangerous products with consumer education efforts receive zero censure. Forgive me, but that is wrong. The bottom line is that I have done a lot...and it is the responsibility of each individual to educate themselves before using drugs they know nothing about, ESPECIALLY when there are warnings and directions for use right on the bottle! What would you say of someone bought a bunch of oral AAS from a UGl and then went into liver failure? Would you bash the UGL and scold them for not having information on their website warning people about the potential hepatic dangers of these drugs?

    I am not angry...at all. It just seems like a double standard to me...and quite unfair, especially after knowing all the time I have put into trying to educate people about my products. It is the #1 thing I spend my time on!
    Again, nowhere did I say that I condone what the other companies are doing, and if I saw them come here on this forum and start advertising their product, and posted a very long write-up about it that didn't mention the things I have brought up (although you do seem willing to admit/discuss them here), I would like to think that I'd bring up the same things as I brought up here. Of course, I don't go scouring the corners of the internet looking for every company who does these things, but when someone comes here to this forum, I try to help educate the users, and figured I'd bring up my thoughts and concerns with you. As for someone abusing oral AAS, if the seller didn't have any information on their website, then yeah, they're definitely more to blame than if they had put some pretty explicit warnings there. I'm not saying they need to say exactly how to use AAS, as that runs into other issues, but they SHOULD make it clear that what they are selling is potent, has potential for abuse, should be used/dosed/etc with caution, etc. At least make it clear to people that it isn't something they should just take on a whim without proper caution and respect for it. I remember someone overdosed on caffeine powder, but whenever I've bought caffeine powder, there were pretty clear and explicit warnings on it that you need to measurei t carefully with a milligram scale, and that even "small" doses could be dangerous/deadly. If they don't have that, then yeah, they're being especially irresponsible/unethical. Again, you came here advertising your product, I didn't go out of my way to single you out or anything, and my having concerns with you in no way means that I don't have concerns with company X, Y, or Z, or that I think you're any worse than X, Y, or Z.

    I hope that clears some things up.
    Performax Labs Online Rep.
    Facebook.com/pmaxlabs
    www.PerformaxLabs.com

  17. Quote Originally Posted by gav86 View Post
    Where's the discount code? Iirc When MA was at BSL the products were awesome. I'm buying some.
    The discount code is: am20.

    Thank you, brother. I really appreciate that you saying that. Not much ruffles my feathers, but it really bothers me when people act like I am guilty for the actions of others. Prior to the fall-out between Rob and PJ and Aaron at BSL (which is when I left), no one knew that things would go south. Rob trusted those guys. We all did...and when things started going in the wrong direction we left, although I was never employed by BSL anyway. They were just a sister company to IML. But...like you said, when we were there the products were on point (they sold mostly designers then).

    I know things are always tough when becoming a sponsor on a new boards (and understandably so). I want to EARN the people's trust here, not have it given to me. The only thing I don't want is to be accused of things I've never done or have character faults heaped on me I don't possess, so thank you.,

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Mike Arnold View Post
    I am not sure what Psycho is. I just figured it was a standard stim-based pre-workout. I don't see any dangerous cardiovascular, hepatic, or renal complications arising from the addition of tianeptine, L-Citrulline, TMG, or Creatine Monohydrate to a stim-based pre-workout. Again, assuming it is a typical stim-based pre-training product, the addition of citrulline would actually be helpful for reducing blood pressure, while the tianeptine would help mitigate the anxiety that is usually associated with stims. There are no contraindications with creatine or TMG either, but then again, there could be something in Pyscho that is potentially problematic when combined with one or more of those compounds.
    My friend, I am aware of what citrulline, TMG, and creatine do. Psycho is a VERY potent capped stimulant product. It's advertised as a thermogenic I think, but the vast majority of use use it solely for its stimulant effects. 1 cap is stronger than anything with DMAA I've tried. There's one ingredient that is suspected to be the "culprit," and there is some level of "questioning" this ingredient, but I don't want to derail your thread too much. Let's just say that I wouldn't want to add anything strong/serious to Psycho until we know a bit more about this ingredient, if you know what I mean.
    Performax Labs Online Rep.
    Facebook.com/pmaxlabs
    www.PerformaxLabs.com

  19. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    Again, nowhere did I say that I condone what the other companies are doing, and if I saw them come here on this forum and start advertising their product, and posted a very long write-up about it that didn't mention the things I have brought up (although you do seem willing to admit/discuss them here), I would like to think that I'd bring up the same things as I brought up here. Of course, I don't go scouring the corners of the internet looking for every company who does these things, but when someone comes here to this forum, I try to help educate the users, and figured I'd bring up my thoughts and concerns with you. As for someone abusing oral AAS, if the seller didn't have any information on their website, then yeah, they're definitely more to blame than if they had put some pretty explicit warnings there. I'm not saying they need to say exactly how to use AAS, as that runs into other issues, but they SHOULD make it clear that what they are selling is potent, has potential for abuse, should be used/dosed/etc with caution, etc. At least make it clear to people that it isn't something they should just take on a whim without proper caution and respect for it. I remember someone overdosed on caffeine powder, but whenever I've bought caffeine powder, there were pretty clear and explicit warnings on it that you need to measurei t carefully with a milligram scale, and that even "small" doses could be dangerous/deadly. If they don't have that, then yeah, they're being especially irresponsible/unethical. Again, you came here advertising your product, I didn't go out of my way to single you out or anything, and my having concerns with you in no way means that I don't have concerns with company X, Y, or Z, or that I think you're any worse than X, Y, or Z.

    I hope that clears some things up.
    It's all good. I understand. I am sure you will be fine with how things are handled here. Just because I own a supp company doesn't mean I don't care about others. Remember, long before I ever even thought about starting a supp company I was writing article after article talking about how to protect people from the potential dangers of PED use....and assisting 100's of clients in my coaching business on similar matters (including just today!) I am the same person now as I was then. The only difference is that I started a supp company.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    My friend, I am aware of what citrulline, TMG, and creatine do. Psycho is a VERY potent capped stimulant product. It's advertised as a thermogenic I think, but the vast majority of use use it solely for its stimulant effects. 1 cap is stronger than anything with DMAA I've tried. There's one ingredient that is suspected to be the "culprit," and there is some level of "questioning" this ingredient, but I don't want to derail your thread too much. Let's just say that I wouldn't want to add anything strong/serious to Psycho until we know a bit more about this ingredient, if you know what I mean.
    I understand. What is the name of the stim in question?

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Mike Arnold View Post
    I understand. What is the name of the stim in question?
    Panthergy (N-Methylpentyl iminoglutaric acid). Stuff is strong, that's all I'll say about it.
    Performax Labs Online Rep.
    Facebook.com/pmaxlabs
    www.PerformaxLabs.com

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Mike Arnold View Post
    I understand. What is the name of the stim in question?
    Panthergy (N-Methylpentyl iminoglutaric acid). Stuff is strong, that's all I'll say about it.
    Performax Labs Online Rep.
    Facebook.com/pmaxlabs
    www.PerformaxLabs.com

  23. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    Panthergy (N-Methylpentyl iminoglutaric acid). Stuff is strong, that's all I'll say about it.
    Thanks.
  24. Vicaine - Prohedonic Opioid-Stimulant Complex


    Walks in room. Thought I heard @SFreed. Is this the thread on the "list" for demolition?

    I've got my useless memes ready to go.

    JK
    VEIN NUTRITION - PREMIUM BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS
    CLICK ME > VEIN NUTRITION : USE "JUST410" for 10% OFF
    IG: @VeinNutrition

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Godstrength View Post
    Oh yeah your a real standup guy, putting out a product like Vicaine. Give me a break from save the song and dance. Your also putting out a garbage mk677 with some zinc and melatonin in it for 75$. Are you calling that revolutionary as well? Garbage sir. I'm done with this conversation and your bull****

    Exits thread
    Like I said my MK-677 is $59.99 with the 20% discount, which is a better price than most MK-677 products that have nothing extra added to them...and the ingredients that have been added to the product (it is more than just zinc and melatonin) do further increase GH and IGF-1 levels, as well as their half-lives and bioavailability. This is a fact, unless you don't believe what the studies say on pubmed. I supplied 20 scientific pubmed references proving this on the website (they won't let me post links here yet, or I would have them here). I never said Somatozine was revolutionary (like Vicaine), but I did say it is the best product in its class (GH releasers) because it is.

    Lastly, Somatozine is sold for a great price and it's more effective than MK alone. Sounds like a good product to me...and everyone who has used it ( a LOT at this point) love it. There has not been a single bad review on it (aside from some people not liking the bloat, but that is a normal side effect of all MK products).

    I'm not sure why you would call it garbage...or continue to attack me, but it's pretty clear you have something against me...because almost all of your comments have either been inaccurate or insulting.

    As far as Vicaine goes, I have no moral qualms with putting out a product like Vicaine. Just like those companies that sell peptides, research chems, and AAS, Vicaine has its risks as well, but as history has shown, it's certainly less risky than many of the products sold by those companies...and no one, out of all the people who have purchased it, have ever said they had a single issue with it. The reviews are excellent. It's also legal and comes with full disclosure.
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. T2/Thyro Cuts II/Trx - Thyroid Stimulants
    By muscle_tank in forum Supplements
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 05-21-2004, 05:49 AM
  2. Quick easy complex carbs...
    By T-Bar in forum Weight Loss
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 09-04-2003, 02:27 AM
  3. Covenient complex carbs
    By T-Bar in forum Weight Loss
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 07-02-2003, 04:30 PM
  4. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 04-06-2003, 12:07 PM
  5. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-01-2003, 02:46 AM
Log in
Log in