What is the best pro-hormone for the average user?

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    What is the best pro-hormone for the average user?


    What makes the best prohormone for the average user?

    This question is one that many people want answered before they put something into their body. So, what really makes the best pro-hormone for people to use? First we need to understand the difference between prohormones and steroids and decipher the many products on the market that use both steroids and pro-hormones in their formulations.

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    Steroids are active hormones in the body that are naturally produced or unnaturally taken to perform a specific task. Steroids are NOT anabolic steroids, there is a difference. Steroids can be birth control, cortisone or even cholesterol. Something that is a steroid isn’t anabolic (builds muscle) and it doesn’t make the item illegal. Legal steroids that are not anabolic that you will find in a health food store are: progesterone creams and pregnenolone. These are all considered steroids but they are NOT anabolic steroids or androgens. So, the word steroid is like “vehicle” composed of trucks, bikes, motorcycles and cars. It is a generic term that has no real meaning other than to classify a compound.

    Under this is a class called Androgens, which are anabolic steroids that are derived from testosterone and its analogs. These testosterone derivatives are the typical suspects that one would see on the black market or in cancer patients. Products like “deca” (nandrolone), equipoise (boldenone) or D-Bol (methandrostenolone) compose this class of drugs. Some anabolic steroids are sold as dietary supplements because they are not classified as drugs by the DEA. These are NOT legal however, since the FDA doesn’t recognize them as dietary supplements. The problem is that the FDA has a hard job in enforcing laws such as DSHEA. There is another class of legal products designed to increase levels of androgens legally and these are called prohormones.

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    Illegal anabolic steroids are classified into two groups: oral anabolic steroids and injectable anabolic steroids. Oral steroids have a 17aMethyl group which blocks liver enzymes and therefore can cause liver enzymes to increase. Often grey market anabolic steroids (ones not classified by the DEA, yet not legal by FDA standards) use this 17a Methyl delivery system to increase potency. This delivery method should be clearly visible on the product information as in the grey market prohormone 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1, 4-diene-3-17b-diol. This product is actually a prohormone but one that contains the 17a-methyl delivery system, making it liver stressful. Compounds that are in this category on the open market usual have a “Halo”, “Phera” or “Drol” in their name. They are clone products of the products ruled upon by the FDA in 2005 as not being DHSEA compliant. Also, black market steroids such as “D-bol”, “Anadrol 50” and “Winstrol” have this liver stressing delivery system. Injectable steroids do not share this liver stressing situation and they are not sold as supplements, since the FDA prohibits anything sold as a supplement from being injected however they are available on the black market as “Equipoise”, “Deca” and “Test Prop” or “Sustenon 250”. Injectables do not carry the liver stress of the oral pills, but they have their own set of issues like the need for often painful injections. Are these the best prohormone for the average guy? I think not, since they are either illegal or grey and are not always safe. I think the best prohormone is actually one that IS a prohormone vs. an anabolic steroid. If you see a 17aMethyl in the ingredient name, it is probably a grey market steroid, so look for the 17aMethyl to avoid liver stress if that is a concern for you. If you see a 17aMethyl in the ingredient name, it is probably a grey market steroid, so look for the 17aMethyl to avoid liver stress if that is a concern for you and if you wish to stay with legal products.

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    There is another option which I feel is the best product for the average person, which is a TRUE prohormone. PRO means precursor to, or converts into. Provitamin A (beta carotene) is a vitamin that converts into vitamin A via an enzyme system. These “pro” drugs or “pro” supplements are much safer since your body converts them to active constituents as they are needed. True “pro” hormones are things that convert to testosterone and testosterone analogs in the body in order to be fully active. They do not carry the liver stress of the grey market steroids either which is a big benefit for long term use. Some pro-hormones are 100% legal by both the DEA and the FDA (complying with DHSEA) and will be outlined later. The FDA laws require that the hormone be naturally occurring and ALSO be sold as a dietary supplement intended for that use prior to 1994 (which is conveniently forgotten by many supplement companies). Things like Estra 4,9-Diene are not DSHEA compliant because they were not sold as dietary supplements prior to 1994, which makes them only legal if the companies in question apply for a New Dietary Ingredient Status which is costly and takes time. The FDA is slower to react, which is why this stuff is on the market, so people feel comfortable breaking FDA law, while DEA law is another matter entirely.

    Here is a short list of pro-hormones that are on the market and my opinion on their legal status and listing them in potency:

    Relative Potency of TRUE Prohormones:
    1-Androsterone (DEA Legal, Pending DSHEA Compliant) - Rating 10
    ** Search 1-Androstene-3b-ol,17-one
    (best used for size and strength gains in cycles of 4-6 weeks @ 300-600mg/Day)

    19Nor-Androsterone (DEA Legal, DSHEA Compliant) – Rating 8.5
    ** Search Norandrostene-3b-ol,17-one
    (best for safe size gains in cycles of 4-6 weeks @ 300-400mg/Day sublingual 20-30mg per day)

    http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/a...d-60-tabs.html

    5a-epiAndrosterone (DEA Legal, DSHEA Compliant) – Rating 8.5
    ** Search epihydroxyetioallocholan-17-one
    (best for cutting cycles and strength gains in cycles of 4-6 weeks @ 300-600mg/Day sublingual 30-50mg per day)

    http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/l...5-tablets.html

    11-keto-Androstenedione (DEA Legal, Pending DSHEA Compliant) – Rating 7
    ** Search Adrenosterone
    (best for mild gains and mild fat loss in cycles of 4-6 weeks @ 300mg/Day)

    DHEA Ethanoate Ester (DEA Legal, DSHEA Compliant) – Rating 7
    (400-500mg per day)

    4-Androsterone (DEA Legal, Pending DSHEA Compliant) – Rating 7
    ** Search 4-Androstene-3b-ol,17-one
    (400-800mg/Day)

    DHEA (DEA Legal, DSHEA Compliant) – Rating 5
    (500-800mg/Day)

    Here are some good stacked items:
    Ultimate Mass Stack
    1-Androsterone + 4-Androsterone = Combination of wet and dry compounds for maximum gains

    Ultimate Wet Size Stack
    4-Androsterone + 1,4 Andro-dione = both can help you retain water weight for hard gainers who need instant “looks”

    Ultimate Cutting Stack
    5aEpiAndrosterone + 11-keto-Androstenedione = combination of anti-estrogenic, lipolytic and cortisol reducing effects

    Ultimate Safety Stack
    19NorAndrosterone + 11-Keto-Androstenedione = combination of mild prohormones

    Ultimate Strength Stack
    1-Androsterone + 5aEpiAndrosterone = crazy strength gains (use the 5aEpi right before working out)

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    These products are much closer to what the government intended as a dietary supplement, meaning that they are not active anabolic steroids yet still provide benefits for the bodybuilder. They are usually quite potent yet do not carry the liver stress that the grey market steroids may have with the 17aMethyl delivery system. 1-Androsterone is the most potent prohormone on the market and although it is not an anabolic steroid, it does give your body the raw materials to make it’s own active steroids, which should give a nice increase to muscles without suffering negative side effects seen with the grey market steroids on the market (often referred to wrongly as “prosteroids” which is a misnomer since they are not “pro” anything, they don’t need to convert to be active and are not dependent on the body’s enzymes). This product is pending a study that will prove it to be DSHEA compliant and once that is complete we should expect to see 1-Androsterone products on the market, since it is the best choice for the average bodybuilder. The other products are all good too and have some distinct advantages as well. 1-Androsterone or “1-Andro” is the best for raw size and strength but others have some very good benefits, making them good choices for the “best prohormone for the average guy” 19NorAndrosterone has very little negative side effects like hairloss and prostate enlargement and is great for long term use and by people over 45, which makes it a very mild prohormone that may even increase hair growth and reduce the prostate size. 5aAndrosterone or 5aEpiAndrosterone is a great product for cutting body fat and increasing focus and intensity, since it stimulates both the mind and the muscle via natual pathways. 11-Keto-Androstenedione has the benefit of also cutting cortisol, which is healthy and good for cutting body fat. So, depending on the desired goals each hormone has some very positive benefits.

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    All androgenic steroids and their precursors carry some minor issues that should be addressed. It is possible to lose hair when the androgenic profile of the body is changed. Additionally, the body is subject to many side effects that can occur in people, so it is best to check with a doctor prior to use and to stop using prohormones if there are any side effects that are noticed. I believe that TRUE prohormones can be used for 4-12 week cycles and that they are extremely safe when used in this manner. I can’t say the same for the illegal grey market 17a Methyl steroids on the market. In my opinion, they will not harm you long term and their safety is not horrible like the media suggests, but they are illegal and the FDA made a ruling in 2005 that these products should not be on the market as dietary supplements, so they are not legal in my book.

    I think the best prohormone for the average bodybuilder is one that balances the factors that I have identified. Legality is one factor and although you can get illegal grey market steroids like “Halo, Phera and Drol”, these products put all dietary supplements at risk and are really bad for your freedom to access quality dietary supplements. I don’t believe that the 17aMethyl products are terribly dangerous even thought they raise liver enzymes, but they are not something to be taken lightly. Also as I stated they limit your future access to legal DSHEA compliant dietary supplements like creatine and amino acids. Please understand to the media and congress, steroids are ANYTHING that builds muscle, so to them even protein is considered a steroid and certainly there have been many movements to ban creatine for example. So, making a choice from the list of DSHEA compliant pro-hormones is a vote for legal and defensible sports supplements. Once the FDA made a decision to specify certain products as not DSHEA compliant in 2005, it is best to avoid purchasing these items and to support legal, DSHEA compliant products as a way to ensure we have freedom to potent, yet safe dietary supplements for some time.

    The good news is that choosing a product off the legal list will give you some serious advantages as well! First, 17aMethyl steroids will make you gain 10-15lbs in two weeks, BUT they are gains that you are most likely to lose since your body has not adjusted to the extra size. Staying on a 17aMethyl product for more than two weeks isn’t advisable since raised liver enzymes are not something you want to have for long cycles. Choosing a pro-hormone that puts on size at a slower rate is actually a much better idea in my opinion. Gains with the DSHEA compliant pro-hormones can range from 7-17 lbs in a month. Certainly they are much slower, but they are gains that you can actually maintain and keep. This is actually a huge advantage since your body wants to be in a state of homeostasis whenever possible. Homeostasis is basically maintaining what you’ve been and resisting change. Only slow and steady changes in your body are permanent so although the lure of 15lbs in two weeks is nice and I have done it myself, the only thing that really made any difference in my physique was continual slow changes. That is why doctors recommend slow weight loss to crash diets and long term hormone use vs. quick cycles that cause you to gain tons of muscle in a short amount of time. We all know those kids in high school that did steroids and were huge for one football season yet now are tiny and scrawny. (I have a friend like this…I saw him a few years ago and you would never even know he did steroids) I have been able to change my body’s set point for muscle by doing long and steady cycles of LEGAL pro-hormones over many years. This is why it is so important to support legal supplements, since your goals for pro-hormone use should be thought in terms of years vs. weeks. You can’t plan for the year if your access to potent, safe and legal dietary pro-hormones is cut short because they get lumped in with the grey market steroids. So, in my opinion a pro-hormone that you can use safely for 8 weeks is much better than a short two or three week cycle. Also, it is one that you can use for 4 cycles a year vs. only one or two cycles a year. It may take longer to get the results, but they are results that you can keep for years to come and enjoy for a life time.

    So, balance your pro-hormone pick on side effects, goals and desired effect and make a positive choice that supports freedom and safe use yet gives maximum effects. Also, price is a factor, since the more potent the product, usually the higher price point (price is amount plus dose required). My final thought is to vary the types of legal pro-hormone you use for each cycle since I truly believe that the body adapts to one type of pro-hormone used consistently. Also, stacking pro-hormones is a good choice since they often have different functions. I hope this article helps put these products in perspective and helps you make an informed choice on which products are the best for making gains while being safe and responsible. In my next article, I will discuss timing your pro-hormone doses for maximum effect.

    Please do not put trade names of other people's products in ths thread. If you wish to buy other peoples stuff, that is cool, but please at least keep our forum clean!

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    Very nice. Im very interested in tryng 1-androsterone but the price right now is a bit on the high side for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3clipseGT View Post
    Very nice. Im very interested in tryng 1-androsterone but the price right now is a bit on the high side for me.
    1-androsterone was actually the first PH I ever used. I used it as a standalone. It gave me fairly decent gains n all my major lifting workouts and i got some lean mass off it. but the best thing about it is that it didn't screw up my lipid profiles or raise my liver enzymes what-so-ever.
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    LG,

    How close is 1-Androstene-3b-ol,17-one to the original 1-AD by Ergo. I’ve got some left over and wouldn’t mind trying the Ultimate Strength Stack.

    Thanks
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    I think it is better than the 1-AD from Ergo...
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegalGear View Post
    I think it is better than the 1-AD from Ergo...
    really?...in what ways
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    Yeah, I'm curious in what way, too. Since what I have on hand is close to expiring, if close enough, I need to use what I have.

    thanks
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    Very nice article! is there an LG product that contains 11-Keto-Androstenedione ? or is one "coming soon"?
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    Very nice write-up!

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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Very nice article! is there an LG product that contains 11-Keto-Androstenedione ? or is one "coming soon"?
    Thanks. No, we don't have a 11-Keto product in the works. We have enough SKU's. I tried to be as objective as possible too.
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    Great write up guys.
    AZZA
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    so are h-drol or m-drol illegal for example? ok with DEA but not with FDA? can you get in trouble with the law for using them?
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    No, you can't really get in any trouble for using non-FDA compliant PH's. It's the DEA you must worry about as a consumer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smackshosh View Post
    so are h-drol or m-drol illegal for example? ok with DEA but not with FDA? can you get in trouble with the law for using them?
    I'm still not sure of the legality of superdrol. I thought it was banned, but it may have been one of "unofficially banned by letter" products. Just to expand a little, if a product is not DSHEA compliant, then it is not legal to be sold as a supplement. If its not legal to sell as a supplement then it is a drug. If its a drug and has not passed FDA approval as a drug then it is illegal to sell.

    But its all about selling, not the possession. The FDA has to specifically include a drug in its "Schedule" (if I recall right thats the official term) for it to be illegal to posses. And I don't believe any of the common designers have been put there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBinMD View Post
    LG,

    How close is 1-Androstene-3b-ol,17-one to the original 1-AD by Ergo. I’ve got some left over and wouldn’t mind trying the Ultimate Strength Stack.

    Thanks
    The conversion of the 3-hydroxy to a 3-keto is a pretty fast step, the 17-keto to 17b-hydroxy is going to be the rate limiting step in the conversion to Dehydroboldenone (which is also the rate limiting step for ergo's original 1-AD).
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    Actually, you have it reversed. 17bHSD is quite prevelant and 3b is more the limiting factor it seems, but it is still quite available to convert as much as 30-40% to the active in the bloodstream which is quite a good amount!
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I'm still not sure of the legality of superdrol. I thought it was banned, but it may have been one of "unofficially banned by letter" products. Just to expand a little, if a product is not DSHEA compliant, then it is not legal to be sold as a supplement. If its not legal to sell as a supplement then it is a drug. If its a drug and has not passed FDA approval as a drug then it is illegal to sell.

    But its all about selling, not the possession. The FDA has to specifically include a drug in its "Schedule" (if I recall right thats the official term) for it to be illegal to posses. And I don't believe any of the common designers have been put there.
    so how does everyone keep selling it then? they just do it until they are told not to?
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegalGear View Post
    Actually, you have it reversed. 17bHSD is quite prevelant and 3b is more the limiting factor it seems, but it is still quite available to convert as much as 30-40% to the active in the bloodstream which is quite a good amount!
    you are correct, I had the two mixed up
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    Quote Originally Posted by smackshosh View Post
    so how does everyone keep selling it then? they just do it until they are told not to?
    basically. If I remember right thats what happened with AX original pheraplex, they got a letter from the FDA saying something to the effect of "Can you provide us documentation that this product is DSHEA compliant, you have 30 days to reply."
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    haha cool good to know, i guess. well lets hope nothing ever changes.
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    alright so would this be stressful on the liver then? still trying to learn how all this works.

    4a19 DiMethyl Eticholan 3-one 19b-ol

    19 Hydroxy-Alpha-Methyl Ethylleticholan will convert to 4-dione

    8-Alpha-Beta Methyl-Eticholene 3-19-Dione will convert to 5-dione
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegalGear View Post
    Relative Potency of TRUE Prohormones:
    1-Androsterone (DEA Legal, Pending DSHEA Compliant) - Rating 10
    ** Search 1-Androstene-3b-ol,17-one
    (best used for size and strength gains in cycles of 4-6 weeks @ 300-600mg/Day)

    4,9 Estra-Diene (DEA Legal, NOT Currently DSHEA Compliant) – Rating 9.5
    (best used for size gains in cycles of 4-6 weeks @ 300mg/Day)
    ** Search 4,9 Estra-Diene

    19Nor-Androsterone (DEA Legal, DSHEA Compliant) – Rating 8.5
    ** Search Norandrostene-3b-ol,17-one
    (best for safe size gains in cycles of 4-6 weeks @ 300-400mg/Day)

    5a-epiAndrosterone (DEA Legal, DSHEA Compliant) – Rating 8.5
    ** Search epihydroxyetioallocholan-17-one
    (best for cutting cycles and strength gains in cycles of 4-6 weeks @ 300-600mg/Day)

    11-keto-Androstenedione (DEA Legal, Pending DSHEA Compliant) – Rating 7
    ** Search Adrenosterone
    (best for mild gains and mild fat loss in cycles of 4-6 weeks @ 300mg/Day)

    DHEA Ethanoate Ester (DEA Legal, DSHEA Compliant) – Rating 7
    (400-500mg per day)

    4-Androsterone (DEA Legal, Pending DSHEA Compliant) – Rating 7
    ** Search 4-Androstene-3b-ol,17-one
    (400-800mg/Day)

    1,4 Andro-dione (DEA Legal, NOT DSHEA Compliant) – Rating 6.5
    ** Search Boldione
    (300-600mg/Day)

    DHEA (DEA Legal, DSHEA Compliant) – Rating 5
    (500-800mg/Day)

    I was just re-reading this, and was wondering where methyl masterdrol v2 fits in...
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    5a-epiAndrosterone (DEA Legal, DSHEA Compliant) – Rating 8.5
    ** Search epihydroxyetioallocholan-17-one
    (best for cutting cycles and strength gains in cycles of 4-6 weeks @ 300-600mg/Day)
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    Ah ok, I didn't realize it was the epiandrosterone in it, thought it was just androsterone I'm still a little lost on some of the chemistry bits
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    Like I said, Epi and Androsterone are almost the same, just one has a Hydrogen pointing up and one pointing down...other than that the same HOWEVER different enzymes act on each of them
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    How does this compare to the old ergo 1-ad. There is no way in hell it can be better than that stuff. That was indeed the best and most popular ph ever... can any expert comment?
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    How does Formadrol (4-OH-Androstenedione) figure into all of this?
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    Formadrol hasn't been Formestane for over 4 years...
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegalGear View Post
    Formadrol hasn't been Formestane for over 4 years...

    Explain, please. I am a total newbie to all of this!
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    We have not used the ingredient Fomestane in Formadrol for over 3 years...
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegalGear View Post
    We have not used the ingredient Fomestane in Formadrol for over 3 years...
    and thats a shame. what do you think of stacking mmv2 with extreme tren?
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    I think it is a good stack for sure!
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegalGear View Post
    I think it is a good stack for sure!
    better than mmv2/ams 1-ad?
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    what kind of pct would be suggested after a cycle of 1-Androsterone ?
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    2-3 weeks of an AI/SERM
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    im new


    what is the best product to buy for gaining mass and getting huge?

    and why?

    and do u have to cycle off with something after this?

    im about to put a order in
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    Well, did you read the article? It has some sample Mass stacks in there.
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    yeah i read the article
    i want one supplement, and one only
    not a whole mass stack,i dont have the money

    and i cant find androsterone
  39. Board Moderator
    Never enough
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    Probably what you need most is patience then
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    forget it, just going with halo test
  

  
 

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