Subecdy presale!

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    Subecdy presale!


    Information on it's writeup and release is here SubEcdy - Presale Coming Soon.

    Go check it out!
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    Checked it! Likey!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legal Gear

    Limited Time Offer - Only 275 Bottles

    LG Sciences Sub Sterone and also available Natadrol + Sub Sterone.

    Remember this is a presale and there won't be labels on the bottle (just along with the box)

    This is a very limited run with only 275 bottles total and to be honest I am not 100% sure when a second run will come out. We don't have enough 6-keto-diosgenin to run any more, so this is it for at least 1-2 months and then the official product will come out.
    The Writeup:

    Sub Sterone Is Here!

    Ecdysterone has been the subject of much debate and controversy in it's 15 year exhistance. Many ecdysterone products have come and gone with mixed results. There is one thing that is proven though, when given to animals and even people in the right way, ecdysterone increases strength, size and muscle.

    The Ecdysterone Scandal!

    Most ecdysterone doesn't work. Quality is the reason! Ron Kramer first brought this to my attention and it was pretty amazing once I dug into it. Real, good quality ecdysterone is hard to come by and very expensive and I know enough now to use the good stuff.

    The Chinese like to play games with testing protocols. They sell Ecdysterone 90% UV tested and pass it off as a quality product. Unfortunately UV testing is very crude and could be giving you only 10-20% of the active ingredient. What you really need is Ecdysterone 80-90% HPLC. HPLC is a testing method that actually tests for the single ecdysterone ingredient.

    So, since most people are using the UV tested crap, taking even a gram of ecdysterone isn't going to do you any good.

    What Kind Of Gains Can I Expect From Sub Sterone?

    Well to be 100% honest, that depends on how you eat and your age. For younger guys, it seems to have a greater effect.For us older guys, it seems to help lean us out and increase strength. You need to make sure you have a high protein intake with this product either way, since it helps to increase protein synthesis.

    Sub Sterone stacks great with prosteriods, anabolic steroids and prohormones because it helps increase the activity of steroid molecules by speeding up messenger RNA. This is the stuff that tells muscles to build more protein, so you want to stack it with androgens like our Methyl 1-D or at least a very good test booster like our Formadrol (plug) or a natural anabolic like our Natadrol.

    Sub Sterone will make you denser than ever before. It will increase strength and should help you pack on the size (especially if you are under 25).

    AM Logs On Sub Sterone

    Rodja on Sub Sterone -

    "Amazing session; hit 2 PRs on big lifts and felt great. I love how good of a mood that this ecdy puts me in. It's kinda odd because this is how I start to feel on test boosters and not really ecdy. My mood, focus, and aggression are all up along with my focus and work capacity."

    Johnfaceman on Sub Sterone after 15 days...

    "20 pound increase on all lifts. My legs are by far my easiest place to gain size and strength. I think I might not increase all that much more on my legs. I also think that my free test is up because my libido increases after every leg workout."

    and after 20 days...
    "Lifts increased once again across the board. Felt easy. Grip strength has been ridiculous. I am really killing it and inspired to. Lifting friend broke down and asked me what I was doing differently"

    ZB126 on Sub Sterone for 30 days...

    "For a recomp, I couldn't have asked for more. It was easy to maintain leanness while gaining muscle with subECDY...I started at 174lbs and ended at 181lbs, so I gained a total of 7lbs on thirty days of subECDY. I am very impressed with this! ... I would also note that with a very small increase over maintenance calories, these gains can clearly be attributed to subECDY."

    What else is in it?

    Two cofactors that should really help push the product forward were in the test product and seemed to prove out!

    Chlorogenic Acid is a cofactor that will help stimulate the calcineurin pathway, which works in conjunction with ecdysterone to build muscle without being androgenic.

    6-Keto-Diosgenin is another type of ecdysterone derivitive that has been shown in both anecdotal and Russian research to help build mass and size. It's a quality ingredient that should really help the ecdysterone density!

    Rhaponticum carthamoides vs Cyanotis vaga Debate




    See the pictures above? One is ecdysterone from RC and one is ecdysterone from CV. Can you tell which is which?

    No, you can't because molecules are IDENTICAL no matter where they are extracted from, so there is NO DIFERENCE BETWEEN RC AND CV extracts.
    Serving Size: 6 Sprays (Approx 1ml)
    Servings Per Container: 120

    So, you take it 4X per day in divided doses
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    Will a label be available?
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    this is a presale and there won't be labels on the bottle (just along with the box)

    This is a very limited run with only 275 bottles total and to be honest I am not 100% sure when a second run will come out. We don't have enough 6-keto-diosgenin to run any more, so this is it for at least 1-2 months and then the official product will come out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by metroba View Post
    this is a presale and there won't be labels on the bottle (just along with the box)

    This is a very limited run with only 275 bottles total and to be honest I am not 100% sure when a second run will come out. We don't have enough 6-keto-diosgenin to run any more, so this is it for at least 1-2 months and then the official product will come out.
    No, no, no...

    I mean like a label with the amounts per dose.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    No, no, no...

    I mean like a label with the amounts per dose.
    That is a good question. Would you mind posting that question in Eric's promo thread in the company promo section? He will be able to answer your question.
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    Supplement Facts:
    Serving Size: 6 Sprays
    Servings Per Container: 120
    Ecdysterone Complex: 69mg
    HydroxyPropyl Beta Cyclodextrin
    20-Hydroxy-Beta-Ecdysterone by HPLC 80%
    Ecdysterone PolyAcetate
    6-Keto Diosgenin
    Chlorogenic Acid (From Green Coffee Bean)

    Directions: Take 4 times a day spaced out.
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    EXCELLENT Ecdysterone article


    I highly recommend you guys read this!

    Ecdysterone Info And Products
    Natural Muscle And Strength Booster


    What are*you*trying to obtain?*You might want to build yourself a more athletic body-- maybe even one with deep muscular cuts of muscle, perhaps a chiseled six-pack, and possibly even some ripped legs? Or, how about simply improving where you are at right now in terms of health, muscle-gain and fat-loss?

    For starters, this is going to take some work. But, what good is hard work if it's not producing maximum gains in both strength, fat-loss, and health? Not as good as it could be!

    The research and development of anabolic supplements has yielded some amazing results in recent years and the scientific breakthroughs show no signs of diminishing. Of course creatine, glutamine, protein and multi-vitamins are standard issue in an athlete's arsenal. Beyond the basics, we've witnessed the development of Prohormones, ZMA, and Isoflavones such as Methoxyisoflavone. Clearly, we've seen remarkable advances in anabolic supplementation in the past five years and now another breakthrough has been released.

    Prepare yourself for what could be the single most important
    advancement in bodybuilding...

    The future of supplementation is here!

    Ecdysterone is a powerful compound to say the least and based on the research, it can definitely help you*maximize your genetic potential. Best of all, it's safe and effective for men, women, and even teenagers! In fact, ecdysterone may just be the next herbal extract to create a*revolution*in the health, fitness, and bodybuilding world.
    What is it and where does it come from?

    It's known by other names of course, the technical name is 20-Beta-Hydroxyecdysterone and other common names are: ecdisten, ecdysone, isoinokosterone, 20-hydroxyecdysone and ecdysterone. Interestingly, it was first discovered in insects. Actually, insects depend on it for their survival. Could there be some correlation between insects superior strength ratio and this compound? What would the effects be on vertebrates such as mammals? If we had the proportionate strength of an ant, for example, we could easily pick up a car.

    Even if a fraction of this power could be available through ecdysterone supplementation, the idea of supplementing with "bug juice" just isn't too appealing. Luckily, it's not obtained through insects for supplementation! It happens to exist as a compound in the herbs Rhaponticum/Leuzeae and Cyanotis vaga, and is therefore a naturally occurring phytochemical. Phew! Until recently; however, it was not easily available. Although Ecdysterone has been known and tested in Russia since 1988, it never received much attention because there existed no cost-effective way to extract it. Russian researchers and scientists had a very pure version developed, but it was costly...$20,000 per kilogram. The only other choice was Suma extract, which contained so little ecdysterone that it would have been ineffective as a viable ecdysterone-supplementation option. Within in the past year (2000), companies specializing in the extraction of high potency compounds from herbs have developed a way to extract concentrated ecdysterone at a standardized*up to 97%! The breakthrough technology, in-vitro cell cultivation, provided the needed purity and concentration of ecdysterone to make it a viable option for economical supplementation. This is great news for anyone wanting to increase lean muscle mass, decrease fat and improve performance. So, bodybuilders, fitness enthusiasts and athletes listen up, the scientific data behind this ingredient is simply incredible!

    What does it do and what scientific studies give evidence to support this?

    Scientists have performed over 50 studies on ecdysterone to conclude one resounding agreement: Ecdysterone is safe and it improves nearly every bodily function...without side effects. What else does it do?*Two words: Muscle Growth.*Ah, what the heck, here's a few more...
    Research-backed ecdysterone supplementation properties:

    Ecdysterone Highlights:

    • A Drastic Increase in Lean Body Mass*
      Increased Endurance*
      Stimulates Metabolism*
      Improves Nerve Function and Enhances Erythropoiesis (the development of mature red blood cells (erythrocytes)*
      Maintains Healthy Blood Sugar That Is Already Within The Normal Range*
      Reduces Adipose Tissue*
      Improves Nearly Every Bodily Function Including Brain and Liver*
      It's Safe and Effective for Men, Women, and Even Teenagers
      Prevents the Loss of Muscle Mass while Promoting Growth of Muscle Fibers*
      Not to mention:
      It does all this with absolutely no reported side effects.
      No Negative Side Effects
      No Virilization
      No Conversion Into Estrogenic Compounds
      No Liver Toxicity
      No High Blood Pressure
      No Testicular Shrinkage
      No effects on the hormonal system in mammals including humans
      Incredibly Low Toxicity Levels (Over 4,000 times that which a person should consume)
      Complete List:
      Increases protein synthesis*
      Improves nearly every bodily function*
      Stimulates protein synthesis in nervous tissue and increases nerve function*
      Increases total protein and glycogen content in muscles*
      Increases myofibrilar proteins*
      Supports healthy blood sugar levels already within the normal range*
      Perfectly maintains balanced glycemic levels that are already within the normal range, leading to constant energy and feeling of well-being*
      Stimulates incorporation of glycogen into proteinaceous tissue such as liver and muscle*
      Pushes nutrients into muscle and organ tissue yielding better muscle growth*
      Stimulates the phospholipids that are linked to enormous health benefits when stimulated*
      Cell membrane stabilizing properties*
      Potent antioxidative effect*
      Vastly increases athletic performance by increasing work capacity, body-weight, lung capacity, and VO2*max while also increasing exhalation of CO2.*
      Increases lean muscle tissue and reduces adipose content*
      Reduces fatigue and apathy, yet increases speed and strength*
      Promotes a positive nitrogen balance and maintains a greater rate of protein synthesis*
      How does it possibly exhibit all of these above positive effects with little or no negative side effects? The secret lies in the compound itself.


    How Does Ecdysterone Work?*The single most important factor in maximizing muscle growth is*environment. Ecdysterone works to create the "perfect" muscle-building environment in the body, among other positive effects. The perfect conditions for creating the perfect muscle building environment include maintaining a positive nitrogen balance and increasing protein synthesis along with intelligent, consistent exercise and a balanced diet rich in protein. It's long been understood that if the body was able to maintain the perfect anabolic environment, maximum muscle growth would occur.

    Maintaining positive nitrogen balance and increased protein synthesis without also incurring hormonal side-effects was the trick. This is why researchers became so enthralled with ecdysterone when Doctor Burdette in 1963 found that ecdysterone enhanced the rate of protein synthesis.* This was the beginning of over 50 studies showing the remarkable effects of ecdysterone on the body while simultaneously showing now side effects. Now, with the increased economical availability of pure concentrated ecdysterone, the picture is finally becoming more complete.

    Learn more about the benefits of Ecdysterone on*Clayton South's Health Facts.

    Studies

    Ecdysterone has been tested for its effects on work capacity, immune function, lean body mass and fat loss, among other variables in a number of scientific studies. The vast majority of research indicates an increase in test subjects' lean mass.* Results were further improved when ecdysterone was consumed with protein.

    Increase Protein Synthesis and Invoke Positive Nitrogen Balance*
    Studies conducted in the Soviet Union in 1988 showed ecdysterone helps "increase hepatic protein synthesis and subsequently promote positive nitrogen balance!"* How does this lead to more muscle mass? Simply: "the more nitrogen your body maintains and the greater rate of protein synthesis, the more mass, period."* How, exactly, does ecdysterone do this? V. Smetanin, researcher of the Smolenk State Medical Institute in Russia speculates that ecdysterone decreases urea concentration in the body and increases hemoglobin levels by increasing a process called erythropoiesis.* Erythropoiesis is the development of mature red blood cells. This leads to a stimulation of the anabolic process in protein metabolism, which in turn leads to a positive nitrogen balance in the body.*

    Increase Lean Muscle Mass While Reducing Body Fat*



    The most often quoted ecdysterone scientific study was published inScientific Sports Bulletin*by S. Simakin in 1988. The objective of Simakin's famous study was to determine the effect of ecdysterone on muscle tissue mass and fat mass, while testing for hormonal changes in the subjects. For the study, three control factors were used: a placebo, protein, and ecdysterone with protein. The results were significantly in favor of the third factor. Of the 78*highly trained*male and female athletes who consumed just protein, they showed only a slight increase in muscle mass for the 10 day period of time. Those who used a placebo lost a slight amount of lean muscle, while those who used protein plus ecdysterone showed a 6-7% increase in lean muscle tissue with nearly a 10% reduction in fat!* Let me say that again:*A 10% reduction in fat and a 7% increase in lean muscle tissue in just 10 days!**Safety testing was conducted during the same time period which showed no difference in hormonal balance. Wow, if ecdysterone plus protein can do this for highly trained athletes, just think what it can do for the average person!
    It's interesting to note the amount of Ecdysterone these Soviet Studies used. According to Derek Cornelius, "Most of the experiments used 5 mg per kilogram of body mass per day as the dosage." To find out how much you would need to take to supply this same amount of ecdysterone, use this equation:


    MG/KG X Your Weight = Dosage:

    In Kilograms:
    5 mg X 78 kg = 386

    In Pounds:
    5 mg X 170lbs / 2.2lbs = 386

    So, the average person should consume 300-600 mg of ecdysterone per day to meet this dosage. This compound is so non-toxic that this is a perfectly safe amount to consume. Syntrax Syntrabol is currently the only product that supplies enough mg of ecdysterone (200 mg per capsule) to effectively supplement at the 600 mg level.

    Increase Stamina, Endurance, and Energy*

    Ecdysterone was tested in another study performed in 1986 by B.Ya Smetanin. For this research, 117 highly trained speed skaters between the ages of 18 and 28 were tested for work capacity, body weight, lung capacity and VO2*max. The results speak for themselves: all of the said parameters increased as well as an increase in the O2*pulse max and an increase in the exhalation of CO2.* Basically, they received more oxygen to their cells! This equates to decreasing recovery time, maximizing performance, permitting optimal muscle anabolism and maximum fat reduction.* It also means the athletes using ecdysterone compared to those on a placebo experienced increased stamina, endurance and energy.

    That's not all!*A study conducted using 112 athletes performed by B.G. Fadeev in Russia showed some very impressive overall results. However, by this time, the results should come as no surprise. 89% of those who supplemented with ecdysterone versus a placebo reported less fatigue, greater performance, more motivation, greater speed, and improved strength.* How long did it take before these athletes reported these effects? Months? Weeks? No,*five days.*To make matters even better, no adverse side effects were reported.
    Who needs it and what are some symptoms of deficiency?

    Bodybuilders, athletes and fitness enthusiasts will find the extra gains in lean muscle mass and reduction in body fat very beneficial.* Based on all the research, Ecdysterone looks to be not only incredibly effective as a performance enhancer on all facets, but also very safe. Since it is not a required nutrient, there are no symptoms of deficiency. However, if you would like to experience more energy and strength gains in less time than you've probably ever experienced, grab some ecdysterone and protein because you are the perfect candidate!* Check out the section below to learn more on side effects and recommended dosages.
    How much should be taken? Are there any side effects?

    What about side effects? That's the best part! As you already know by now, research studies show no negative side effects, no hormonal interactions, and a very low toxicity level for ecdysterone. When tested by ICN Biochemicals on December 31, 1998, a complete safety test was performed to determine the toxicity. The data showed the amount of ecdysterone one would have to take in order to reach toxicity. The amount? 6400 mg/kg! In other words, an average 170lb person would have to take 494,528 mg of the compound to reach this point! This is 4,121 times as much as the recommended dose.

    So, as you can see, it's very safe with an incredibly low toxicity. Furthermore, endocrine testing showed that ecdysterone caused no effect whatsoever on the mammalian hormonal system. Testing was measured on testosterone, cortisol, insulin, ACTH, growth hormone, and leutinizing hormone. The data not only shows ecdysterone to be extremely safe, but effective as well! The recommended dose of ecdysterone is 80-120 mg per day and upwards of 400-600 mg per day. We've even heard reports of people receiving amazing results working up to using as much as 1200 mg safely per day. Remember, ecdysterone should be taken with protein-rich meals for best results!

    Republished from Clayton South's Health Facts.
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    The article says you'd have to take 300mg - 600mg a day, but the product only holds 69 mg per serving size, it says take 4 times a day, does that mean 6 sprays 4 times a day containing 24 sprays a day total, which wud still be only 276mg, so I guess I would have to go with 5 servings a day minimal which will be enough for 24 days a bottle, correct???

    If I am wrong in any aspect please correct me and clarify, I am interested but want to make sure I am doing everything correctly before I buy or ingest anything.
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    Any possibility for us from EU countries to try this ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNT716 View Post
    The article says you'd have to take 300mg - 600mg a day, but the product only holds 69 mg per serving size, it says take 4 times a day, does that mean 6 sprays 4 times a day containing 24 sprays a day total, which wud still be only 276mg, so I guess I would have to go with 5 servings a day minimal which will be enough for 24 days a bottle, correct???

    If I am wrong in any aspect please correct me and clarify, I am interested but want to make sure I am doing everything correctly before I buy or ingest anything.
    It is all about the concentration of the extracted ingredients and in this case it is far higher than most products that range from 10-40% on average (I believe that is what I read, double check if you want). What you are taking here is 80-90% pure and in a sub-lingual delivery system it is more bio-available compared to what you ingest in pill form. So yes with a pill at say 600 mg a day, assuming 40% purity you are only really getting 240 mg of the active and your body will not absorb near that, more than likely not even half equating to less than 120 mg... hence why old ecdy products don't give results.

    Now assume you are getting 90% purity and at least 90% absorption in sub-lingual delivery system, you see why you would be getting MUCH better results. At a minimum you are getting twice as much as you would from previous products but in reality it is probably 3-4 times more since purity of UV tested is always in question. Hope this helps.
    If my direct and cynical approach bothers you, just ignore it. I'm just saying what you need to hear ;).
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    Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    It is all about the concentration of the extracted ingredients and in this case it is far higher than most products that range from 10-40% on average (I believe that is what I read, double check if you want). What you are taking here is 80-90% pure and in a sub-lingual delivery system it is more bio-available compared to what you ingest in pill form. So yes with a pill at say 600 mg a day, assuming 40% purity you are only really getting 240 mg of the active and your body will not absorb near that, more than likely not even half equating to less than 120 mg... hence why old ecdy products don't give results.

    Now assume you are getting 90% purity and at least 90% absorption in sub-lingual delivery system, you see why you would be getting MUCH better results. At a minimum you are getting twice as much as you would from previous products but in reality it is probably 3-4 times more since purity of UV tested is always in question. Hope this helps.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VolcomX311 View Post
    Goos post Fin
    Sometimes when you see the math it helps put things into perspective. Thanks Volc, I too often hope to hear an explanation as such and being able to provide one is rewarding (even if it falls on deaf ears).
    If my direct and cynical approach bothers you, just ignore it. I'm just saying what you need to hear ;).
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    Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    Sometimes when you see the math it helps put things into perspective. Thanks Volc, I too often hope to hear an explanation as such and being able to provide one is rewarding (even if it falls on deaf ears).
    welcome to BB.com, LOL.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VolcomX311 View Post
    welcome to BB.com, LOL.
    Yeah I don't know why you are over there so much... I lurk but mostly to check out on the LG threads (though I did just win a contest so I can't complain too much). All that and I have rep power there of 2... yeah.
    If my direct and cynical approach bothers you, just ignore it. I'm just saying what you need to hear ;).
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    Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    Yeah I don't know why you are over there so much... I lurk but mostly to check out on the LG threads (though I did just win a contest so I can't complain too much). All that and I have rep power there of 2... yeah.
    LOL, I'm there on Black Ops. I have to learn their people's languages and cultures, get them to trust & love me, then usurp their leadership and I've won no contests
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    Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    Yeah I don't know why you are over there so much... I lurk but mostly to check out on the LG threads (though I did just win a contest so I can't complain too much). All that and I have rep power there of 2... yeah.
    heh-heh.....funny! It is like day & night b/t the 2 boards...and so much repetition over there, innnnsane!
    what contest did you win? I totally missed that one... glad you got back in the green though, red isn't your color
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    Quote Originally Posted by schizm View Post
    heh-heh.....funny! It is like day & night b/t the 2 boards...and so much repetition over there, innnnsane!
    what contest did you win? I totally missed that one... glad you got back in the green though, red isn't your color
    SNS had a promo to try Focus XT and another supplement; I chose Agmatine so I could run it pre-workout with AS-GT and some extra Citrulline Malate. Should be a good time.
    If my direct and cynical approach bothers you, just ignore it. I'm just saying what you need to hear ;).
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    Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    SNS had a promo to try Focus XT and another supplement; I chose Agmatine so I could run it pre-workout with AS-GT and some extra Citrulline Malate. Should be a good time.
    Ahhh, smoooooth...a belated congrats to you Fin!
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