[datBtrue]

ARTICLES:

Basic Guide: CJC-1295
Basic Guide: Growth Hormone Secretagogues
Growth Hormone Administration vs. CJC-1295/GHRP-6

Originally Posted by Mach .78

... Can you recommend a dose schedule for both peptides that would work with my 2 days at home, 1 day at work? ...

Edit: How long will 2mg of each last me? And...what's the diff. between GHRP-6 and [D-Lys³] GHRP-6?

Do you have any experience combining Hexarelin and GHRP-6? I have option anxiety now. ...

d-Lys-3-GHRP-6 is a GH secretagogue receptor (GHS-R) antagonist (inhibitor). It has been shown to significantly reduce GHRH-mediated growth hormone release.

The following quote is from a study that used d-Lys-3-GHRP-6 as an GHS-R antagonist in conducting their experiments.

"...two of the three independent experiments did not show an increase in GH release in the presence of the GHS-R antagonist, but all showed a consistent reduction in GHRH-induced GH release in the presence of the antagonist." - "The Role of Pituitary Ghrelin in Growth Hormone (GH) Secretion: GH-Releasing Hormone-Dependent Regulation of Pituitary Ghrelin Gene Expression and Peptide Content Endocrinology", Jun Kamegai,..., Aug 2004; 145: 3731 - 3738

Its primary "use" in humans would be to reduce hunger induced by ghrelin (the endogenous GHS). Unfortunately it would reduced or eliminate GH release as well.

It is not something you would ever want to use unless you feel you already make too much growth hormone.

GHRP-6, GHRP-2 and Hexarelin are all interchangeable. They are treated as interchangeable in the studies. They work via the same mode of action. Their slight differences are probably attributable to the different "batches" of non-pituitary neurons they excite. One peptide may excite one "batch" more or less than another.

Hexarelin is the strongest of the GHS peptides. It also induces higher amounts of cortisol & prolactin then the other peptides. It may (according to one comparison study) desensitize quicker. GHRP-2 is a little less strong with less impact on cortisol & prolactin. GHRP-6 has very little impact on cortisol & prolactin (although it is a little elevated above 1mcg/kg dosing) and is a little less stronger than GHRP-2.

So choose whichever is cheaper. I know GHRP-6 & GHRP-2 cost the same to make. However GHRP-6 at the moment is a lot cheaper...

There is no direct benefit to combining GHRPs because they all act through the same mode of action. You just choose one and run it up to the maximally beneficial dose (which would be 300mcg) at each administration.

I know on the web you see old posts where people talk about the positive effect of combining Hex & GHRP-6. Thats just incorrect. You also see that d-Lys-3-GHRP-6 is sold as being beneficial to GH release while keeping hunger away. Thats just fraudulent.

CJC-1295 is long-lasting. Most people are dosing it twice per week...so that would fit within your schedule. That means no matter where you are or what you're doing throughout the week you have elevated levels of GH in your body. CJC-1295 can be analogized to a longer-estered testosterone such as enanthate.

The GHRPs (GHRP-6, etc.) should ALWAYS be dosed at bed if you can (if you miss a dose no big deal). Depending on what study you read upto 85% of GH release in males occurs in that night-time (just after you fall asleep) pulse/spike. A dose of GHRP-6 of any amount will amplify that pulse which will give you more GH for the night. Looking at the study charts it appears that the pulse ends up being 2x to 6x higher than normal. Optimal dosage is 100mcg upto 300mcg. I've experimented with both and found 100mcg to be just fine BUT I do notice even deeper sleep at 200 & 300mcg dosing.

Keep in mind that glucose and fatty acids blunt (but don't eliminate) GHRPs induced GH release. The peak of the pulse occurs 30 minutes after dosing GHRPs so optimally take the dose on an empty stomach and wait 30 minutes before eating. This doesn't have to be exact...just the way to maxamize the pulse secretion. GHRPs can be analogized to a non-estered testosterone such as Test-suspension. You take it...you get the effect...then its gone.

You asked about dosing CJC as well. Most are dosing it at 2mg per week split in two doses because that is what the CJC study in humans used (actually close to the mimimal dose of that study) and because these are bodybuilders tring to maxamize GH. But IF they used GHRP-6 a few times a day they could get an even higher amount of GH release or....

...if you are a 42 year old guy like me...and you understand that CJC-1295 = GHRH...and 100mcg of GHRH combined with 100-300mcg of GHRP-6 is hugely synergetic...and you are only trying to achieve a really good GH level then you experiment.

At the moment I am experimenting with just one dose of 100mcg CJC-1295 before bed...plus my 3x per day GHRP-6 dosing. I do this daily which means 700mcg is used per week. Because of the long-half life I estimated that my dosing builds up to in excess of 700mcgs within 9 or so days where it remains at that level. So that is my minimal dosing scheme...and two weeks into my experiment I feel that it is very effective.

[datBtrue]

Originally Posted by RIjeosXeper

...I just had a question regarding the length of time you should be on GHRH and GHRP-6.

Should you treat it long-term like regular GH in terms of continous months of usage (6+ month cycles) or would shorter cycles (more like 4 months or so) work well as well ?.

...

That is an open ended question because you use the term "should".

GHRH & CJC-1295 can be used long-term without a decrease in effectiveness.

GHRPs can be dosed subcutaneously multiple times a day. At saturation doses (i.e. 100mcg) that scheme should be sufficiently intermittent to avoid a decrease in effectiveness. Higher dose of GHRPs (especially hexarelin) of 300mcg might bring about a decrease in effectiveness.

If by "should" you mean the length of time to experience the "effects" of GH then the interval is the same as external GH administration.

If you are an older person (and being in your 30's is old enogh IMHO) just trying to restore GH levels and your dosing is designed to just make the levels youthful and no more than IMHO you can stay on forever.

If you are attempting to maximize GH levels for bodybuilding purposes you may want think about your usage in the same way you would think about external administration of GH.

I hesitate to use myself as an example because this is subjective...I am a sample of one and my experiences and views about what is happening in my own body are not "more accurate" then say those expressed by Trip or Sol...

...however I noticed positive effects from GHRP-6 alone and eventually when I added CJC I REALLY noticed positive changes...and yet I have only played w/ CJC for a few weeks.

[datBtrue]

Originally Posted by kesam

Took 1mg of CJC on 16 July at 2000hrs within 5 mins very intense flush combined with slight cramping in fingers on both hands, blood reading 2hrs later give no increase. BS the following morning were the same as my normal reading and the same on the next 2 mornings, so far the effect on my readings after 1mg is promising as experiance of 2iu rHGH at 2200hrs would give a significant rise of 30 - 40 points the following morning. One thing I have noticed is that I get 3 or 4 extreme bouts of tiredness every day at the moment but with rHGH I would only notice one bout of tiredness around 10am following morning of injection. protocol to be used is 1mg 2 * week for first 2 weeks and 500mcg 2 * week thereafter

Good to read this bro. We are our own lab rats. I am continually curious about your situation...

I'm going to post a quick paragraph or two that equates all these measurements into the "GH ius" standard of measurement we've come to understand.

"Area under the curve"...ngs, ugs, mcgs, how much do we release at night...during the day...how much does that pulse add to a natural release...all these damn measurements...

...so it would be nice to equate everything to "GH ius".

[Mach .78]

Thank you for spending the time to research all of this. I will be running CJC and GHRP-6 missing that one day of dosing the GHRP. This should be fun, thanks again for your help.

[kesam]

I only have experience of max 3iu of rHGH but so far the tiredness is far worse on CJC. I used to be able to combat the rHGH with a couple of cups of coffee but caffeine doesn't shift the feeling on CJC the feeling is atleast twice as bad. The feeling of stiffness in the knuckles is far worse too. Sorry I can't really compare it in GH ius but initialy 1mg CJC is far far stronger than 2 or 3ius per night.

I will try to get hold of some GHRP and include it in the prtocol after a month

[kesam]

Morning following second 1mg of CJC I have actually seen a slight reduction in my normally very stable waking figure (this is very good because my figure is normally around 100 )

[Mach .78]

Hey D, If I was to run CJC-1295 solo at 500 mcgs, twice a week, would it be beneficial or just a waste of money? I'm trying to keep costs down. thanks

Can I take GHRP-6,2 on 1 off and have it still be effective?

[kesam]

is it possible to mix the CJC and GHRP in the same vial.

[datBtrue]

Originally Posted by Mach .78

Hey D, If I was to run CJC-1295 solo at 500 mcgs, twice a week, would it be beneficial or just a waste of money? I'm trying to keep costs down. thanks

Can I take GHRP-6,2 on 1 off and have it still be effective?

Yes & yes.

How old are you?

The reason I ask is I just turned 42 so perhaps a little goes a long way for me.

I started out 6 months ago with pGH (gaba & gabob) and found that a nightly dose made me sleep better, feel better, more energy... so I started using GHRP-6 at just 100mcg at night in place of the pGH and then started dosing GHRP-6 PWO and sometimes in the morning.

I got a great benefit from just that alone.

Now CJC-1295 is just a long-lasting GHRH and the studies showed a great synergy w/ just 100mcg of GHRH & 100mcg of GHRP-6 so why not just add 100mcg of CJC-1295 at night to my GHRP-6 regimen?

So thats what I've been doing the least few weeks. 100mcg of CJC-1295 at night w/ 150mcg GHRP-6...and then GHRP-6 PWO & in the morning by itself at either 100 or 200mcg.

The concern I had was the pulse. Does CJC-1295 result in a quick enough release to work the same as non-analog GHRH? The answer is yes. Take a look at the following GH release chart from the CJC-1295 clinical trial:

All dosing schemes save the highest result in an initial quick surge. Then they settle into a chronic elevation.

GHRP-6 needs to have some GHRH around to work. We supply it naturally but with some CJC-1295 we are adding to this available pool. So whenever we take GHRP-6 (or Hexarelin or GHRP-2, i.e. the GHRPs) we don't need to take CJC-1295 with it because our earlier CJC dosing means plenty will still be circulating.

What I want to do though is get the biggest pulse I can when I go to sleep (that natural night-time pulse usually makes up 85% or so of our natural GH release). So I was happy to see that CJC-1295 has that initial spike which will synergize well with GHRP-6 at that time.

So my weekly total of CJC-1295 is 100mcg per day * 7 = 700mcg

BUT the long half-life means it builds up so that I end up with the equivalent of about 650mcgs circulating.

I just started experimenting with 200mcg of CJC-1295 per day (1400mcg per week) plus my GHRP-6 protocol and I feel it in my hands ...it is easier for them to numb up...which is a good sign.

I just ran my normal 15 day anabolic cycle which resulted in several pounds of lean tissue and visible fat loss. This was my best 15 day cycle so far and I am inclined to say that the CJC dosing really added to my insulin protocol in effecting "fun" nutrient partitioning.

I hope I answered your question.

I always have in the back of my head Sol's very valid comment "But Dat you are just a sample of one." So keep that in mind.

But I always feel it is easier to start low...measue the effect and then bump dose up rather then start high and then try to lower the dose.

[datBtrue]

Originally Posted by kesam

is it possible to mix the CJC and GHRP in the same vial.

If you mean draw some of each up into the same syringe for a single injection then sure that will never be a problem.

If you mean putting the two together in the same vial and reconstituting or mixing the reconstituted vials into a single vial...then I can only conjecture.

But I would avoid it if I could. The reason is that I don't know what buffering agent was used for each. It shouldn't matter but I don't know how particular the bioconjugate part of the CJC-1295 chain is? I do know that a peptide facility told me the underlying hormone GHRH is more subject to oxidative degradation then GHRP-6 so they advised against exposing native GHRH to air while GHRP-6 would be okay.

Sorry I'm not much help.

[datBtrue]

Originally Posted by kesam

Morning following second 1mg of CJC I have actually seen a slight reduction in my normally very stable waking figure (this is very good because my figure is normally around 100 )

Very good! Natural biorhythms and preserved pulsation w/ CJC-1295 verses a GH blast apparently make a positive difference.

[TripDog]

Originally Posted by datBtrue

I started out 6 months ago with pGH (gaba & gabob) and found that a nightly dose made me sleep better, feel better, more energy... .

I agree 100% there, at this point I use 400-500 mcg of Ghrp-6 and 500mcg pGh 5 days a week. I preload a syringe and when I wake up in the middle of the night I shoot then. I know at that point i'm in a fasted state and probably works better.

I added Arg hcl to my pGH so I use that as well to block neg feedback.

Been doing this for about 4 months.

[Distilled Water]

Originally Posted by TripDog

I agree 100% there, at this point I use 400-500 mcg of Ghrp-6 and 500mcg pGh 5 days a week. I preload a syringe and when I wake up in the middle of the night I shoot then. I know at that point i'm in a fasted state and probably works better.

I added Arg hcl to my pGH so I use that as well to block neg feedback.

Been doing this for about 4 months.

Are you just dosing the GHRP-6 before bed?