[pumbertot]

Originally Posted by datBtrue

That is a maximum wait. The minimum is 5 minutes. The point is to administer a dose and let it go and release GH. Thats going to happen according to the release profile curves within 5 minutes and GH levels will rise till the 30 minute mark or so.

If you really want to be more accurate 20-25 minutes is probably the maximum wait period because of "leads and lags".

PWO nutrition is important so just administer when you get in from the gym. Check your messages, maybe answer a short email and then go fix your food. But DON'T call your girlfriend! Why? C'mon man you know why. Because 60 minutes later you'll still be on the phone and your CJC will still be in the vial.



This is kind of jumble you have here. In regard to CJC/GHRP-6 you can eat any time any way you want after it is in your body & has done its thing (i.e. effected GH release).

If you are talking about using insulin then that is a different protocol and might involve some of what you stated.

If you are just talking about good diet ...maybe because you are dieting or recomping then some of what you stated makes sense.

But nothing is an absolute.

On my protocol which involves insulin PWO I have started throwing in some fats early on in the form of a snickers bar. I wouldn't go overboard with fats but if you know your body & the goal is gain two pounds of muscle every week then you to consume...properly but calorically.

i must have gotten confused too. I thought we had to wait nearly 30 minutes after taking our cjc+ghrp6 or we would blunt the GH release.

so what you are saying is say 1st thing in the morning, take the cjc+ghrp6, wait 10 minutes, take our insulin then eat 5 minutes later is ok?

the same PWO?or should i wait at least 20 minutes before taking the insulin and then 5 more before eating?

or PWO can I just take the ghrp6+cjc, wait 5 minutes, take the insulin, wait 5 minutes then consume my PWO shake and then eat as much as possible(without eating junk) over the next hour?

currently ive been waiting 20 minutes then taking 10iu actrapid then drinking shake 5 minutes later. waiting 30 minutes then having another shake. 30 minutes after I eat a high protein meal with a little carbs and EFAs.


yes longrob I was referring to a protocol with insulin in it too.

[datBtrue]

Thread Index: [ POST #1 ]

Originally Posted by pumbertot

...I thought we had to wait nearly 30 minutes after taking our cjc+ghrp6 or we would blunt the GH release.

GH release begins within the first 5 minutes and usually begins right away. ...and GH release continues to rise for about 30 minutes.

Originally Posted by pumbertot

so what you are saying is say 1st thing in the morning, take the cjc+ghrp6, wait 10 minutes, take our insulin then eat 5 minutes later is ok?

...

All those scenarios would be okay as well. The point is that when you eat before 30 minutes is up you may interfere w/ the tail end of GH release.

I pretty much just wait 30 minutes.

Here are some graphs to illustrate:

The graphs below are individual responses not averages so you can see that there is variability...30 minutes is just an average.

The open circle graphs are GHRP-6 (100mcg/kg). The dark circles demonstrate that GHRP-6 is not that effective if you take a GHRH antagonist before it to eliminate GHRH.

[datBtrue]

Originally Posted by likkayouth

I probably should've pointed out that my above post was addressed to you DatBtrue

You're asking me to do something that I am unwilling to do. That is to insure your risks.

[babyblu]

Originally Posted by datBtrue

I think that is a good dosing level. I'm still on this cycle with 3x those doses...but this week I cut it down to 2x those doses and within a week or so I'll be back down to the dose you mentioned.
That I think will be a good dose for recomp., dieting or just contribution to fitness. I think it will work well.



Yep lethargy can be a problem. I'm glad you posted your thoughts because it gets me back to what I really got into this for and that was to feel good, get better sleep, and restore my growth hormone levels.
It wasn't to build more muscle... I don't really want it because it brings on sleep apnea for me.

I must have misunderstood, but using low dose cjc and low dose ghrp6 by themselves would not constitute a bulking regimen for most people, however in terms of anti-aging, weight loss, etc. I think that would be proper. Certainly using AAS and slin along with those would lead most people to put on lbm. But if you want to make this personal Dat, I guess we can go there..............

bb

[datBtrue]

Originally Posted by babyblu

I must have misunderstood, but using low dose cjc and low dose ghrp6 by themselves would not constitute a bulking regimen for most people, however in terms of anti-aging, weight loss, etc. I think that would be proper.

The dose in question was 2.1 mgs per week.

Papa wrote: "Now, with that tidbit of personal info, would a 3 month run of CJC/GHRP6 (100mcg CJC + 100mcg GHRP, EACH 3x ED) would yield respectable gains in lean mass? I have gone through much of Dat's guide and the synergy between the two appears awesome for GH increases..."

To which you responed: "Also I would run higher dosages of cjc and ghrp; datBtrue's protocol was more for anti-aging & fat loss as opposed to building LBM."

Thats all. My post here wasn't about you ...it was first about the dose and second about how one would use GH in the first place to gain mass which was prompted by those that think they can get a lot of mass with GH alone.

Originally Posted by babyblu

Certainly using AAS and slin along with those would lead most people to put on lbm.

Actually I laid out my protocol to show how GH would fit into things and how you gain mass. It was kind of a prelude for me to begin to post about intracellular signaling and why my protocol was likely successful and strategies to optimize the use of GH/IGF-1 which don't necessarily involve elevating overall circulatory levels.

But I'm going to erase references to what I MYSELF am doing because it just leaves me open...

Originally Posted by babyblu

But if you want to make this personal Dat, I guess we can go there..............

I feel you just did.

Sorry bro but thats something I'm not ever going to do. The only response I'll ever take if you decide to attack me personally is that I will stop speaking highly of you. But I will never speak negatively about you.

Take care of yourself.

[papapumpsd]

If my comment about GH and adding mass is problematic, I'll be happy to remove it. Not here to stir up issues or agitate others. It was supposed to be a simple, benign question.....

[babyblu]

Dat

As I stated before, I missed the fact initially that Poppa was going to run 100ghrp6/100cjc 3x per day and based my statement that using a dosage of 100mics cjc and 100mics ghrp6 per day is IMO a low dosage. I believe you have acted like I was making a disparaging comment about your body of work or somethin to that effect, because the tone of your prior post was a little hostile. Honestly Im too busy to engage in an online argument, I just didnt understatnd your reaction to my comments which were based on your own previsou statements.

bb

[pumbertot]

to dat and bb, shake and make-up. both of you have a tendency to lose your cool a little at times from my experience.

both of you are good guys that help others.

[Mach .78]

I just started taking 100 mgs. of DHEA the other day. I took my second dose today with fish oil, came home and took my 200 mcg dose of GHRP-6. I am experiencing a pronounced tingling in my hands and feet. DHEA MAY be called the "Mother Hormone" for good reason from what I'm experiencing.

[papapumpsd]

Originally Posted by Mach .78

I just started taking 100 mgs. of DHEA the other day. I took my second dose today with fish oil, came home and took my 200 mcg dose of GHRP-6. I am experiencing a pronounced tingling in my hands and feet. DHEA MAY be called the "Mother Hormone" for good reason from what I'm experiencing.

Why would you assume DHEA and not GHRP-6 to be the culprit?

[Mach .78]

Originally Posted by papapumpsd

Why would you assume DHEA and not GHRP-6 to be the culprit?

I have experienced minor tingling before when taking GHRP-6 alone. I'm speculating that DHEA might boost GHRP-6 effects thus a (more pronounced feeling). This is only speculation. I have no studies to back it. I'd be interested to hear what others have to say about it.

[datBtrue]

Originally Posted by Mach .78

I have experienced minor tingling before when taking GHRP-6 alone. I'm speculating that DHEA might boost GHRP-6 effects thus a (more pronounced feeling). This is only speculation. I have no studies to back it. I'd be interested to hear what others have to say about it.

Nice speculation & accurate it seems.

In my old archive on GHS I found a folder I had labeled DHEA and an abstract that is directly on point.

It turned out that estrogen was the important factor so this dissertation is really a standalone but the following abstract explains what you experienced.

Restoration of aging growth hormone cells by dehydroepiandrosterone via estrogen receptors by Iruthayanathan, Mary, Ph.D., University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, 2004, 136 pages; AAT 3165066

Abstract (Summary)

Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) is the most abundant circulating steroid in humans. With progressive aging there is a decline in the levels of DHEA, growth hormone (GH) and sex steroids. DHEA levels seem to correlate inversely with morbidity and mortality associated with aging. Hence, it is widely used as an anti-aging supplement to counter these effects. DHEA is considered traditionally as a precursor hormone for estrogens and androgens and to have no function of its own, as it does not have a specific receptor. The decline in GH levels with aging is associated with a loss of GH cells (somatotropes) in the pituitary.

The objective of this study was to learn if the functions of somatotropes can be restored in aging female rats (12-14-months and 18-months) to levels seen in young, diestrous rats (3-4 months). Using in vitro and in vivo methods, the results indicate that DHEA acts directly at the level of the pituitary to restore GH gene expression to levels seen in young rats. The study employed cytochemical and molecular techniques (immunocytochemistry, in-situ hybridization, QRT-PCR) to assess the function and gene expression of somatotropes.

This is the first study to our knowledge, to show a loss of GH-releasing hormone-receptor (GHRH-R) binding cells in aging female rat pituitaries, which could also be a contributory factor in the decline of GH levels. Short-term DHEA treatment of 18-month-old rats, in vivo , increases the number of GHRH-binding cells in the pituitary resulting in a two-fold increase in serum GH. The study also addresses mechanisms behind DHEA's restoration of aging somatotropes in vitro using inhibitors (trilostane and aminoglutethemide) that block specific metabolic pathways of DHEA. The study shows that DHEA needs to be aromatized to estrogen to restore GH expression in aging somatotropes. ICI 182,780, an estrogen receptor (ER) antagonist, also blocked the restorative effects of DHEA, suggesting that ERs play a key role in DHEA's action on aging somatotropes. In summary, this study shows that DHEA has direct actions on the pituitary, possibly after aromatization to estrogen. The findings in aging rats suggest that DHEA replacement might benefit individuals with low GH levels.


Advisor: Childs, Gwen V.
School: University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences
School Location: United States -- Arkansas
Keyword(s): Restoration, Aging, Growth hormone, Dehydroepiandrosterone, Estrogen receptors
Source: DAI-B 66/02, p. 658, Aug 2005
Source type: Dissertation
Subjects: Cellular biology
Publication Number: AAT 3165066
ISBN: 9780542002564

[datBtrue]

Originally Posted by babyblu

.. because the tone of your prior post was a little hostile.

I guess it was. The voices of several failed relationships are now ringing in my head saying "...you see how you be! It doesn't matter what you intended ...and don't say sorry, just stop being a prick."

So Babyblu I'll just stop being a prick and I apologize.

[babyblu]

No problem bro!!

bb