[DAdams91982]

Originally Posted by poopypants

so iodine supports normal thyroid functioning? will iodine boost normal production if its already working properly?

Thinkin bout trying this out as well as the CJC and GHRP-6..... is T-4 catabolic or anabolic? or is it dose dependant?

T4 converts to T3, but the rate is a nice steady pace so you dont get the negatives of strait T3. The thyroid hormones are not prejudice on where they pull from, so you want to eat, and keep your body in an anabolic state. Since Alb enhances your work capacity, and is slighty anabolic, with the right dosages this would be good, if you want a strong cutter, then a real anabolic is required. Iodine is your PCT, it wont get you higher than your basal levels, Gugglestrones supposedly do this, as do a few other things like Diacana, and Thyroid tabs.

My next stack is
Epi, T4, Alb, GHRP-6, CJC

Adams

[poopypants]

Originally Posted by DAdams91982

T4 converts to T3, but the rate is a nice steady pace so you dont get the negatives of strait T3. The thyroid hormones are not prejudice on where they pull from, so you want to eat, and keep your body in an anabolic state. Since Alb enhances your work capacity, and is slighty anabolic, with the right dosages this would be good, if you want a strong cutter, then a real anabolic is required. Iodine is your PCT, it wont get you higher than your basal levels, Gugglestrones supposedly do this, as do a few other things like Diacana, and Thyroid tabs.

My next stack is
Epi, T4, Alb, GHRP-6, CJC

Adams

LMFOA!!!! I was bout to say the same thing!!! Im actually going to get some dermacrine too to add a lil more test.... unless I can find some 4-ad

[datBtrue]

Thread Index: [ POST #1 ]

Originally Posted by comacho

haha old post, but Dat when did you dose your T3? because that little article said T3 will blunt igf sites ? and reduce GH effects?

im going to use slin/T3 with my cjc/ghrp pct due to their LH boosting property

i could actually follow your dosing as it fits my daily schedule.

thanks in advance.

Drop the T3 in PCT. That is not a time to boost metabolism if you want to retain your gains.

I dosed the T3 twice a day on an empty stomch. The first dose in the middle of the night and the second dose after working out (because that was the time during the day my stomach was empty.

I have a love hate relationship w/ T3.

I used it during the first month of my present cycle and then happened to get sick for a couple where I didn't take T3 so I ended up just dropping it.

The hate part - it always takes about 8 days for my metabolism to get back to reasonable after I stop T3.

Thanks to that fact & not making any other adjustments I gained about 2 pounds of fat in those 8 days ...continuing forward on the cycle for a few more weeks w/o T3 made me realize that I don't need it w/ CJC/GHRP-6 and that the benefit doesn't outway the costs for me.

T3 above 25mcg always makes me breathy in the gym and I hate that so no more T3 pour moi.

I'm already f@cking with so many other hormones (testosterone, insulin ...estrogen, DHT, LH, FSH...GHRH, Ghrelin-mimetic, somatostatin ...GH) why add to that?

[datBtrue]

Originally Posted by Bobaslaw

Here is one rat study showing that 1 month of GHRH infusion (via osmotic pump) at approx. 25mcg/kg/day did not show significant somatotroph hyperplasia. Yes, it is a "rat" study so dosages are difficult to compare with human participants. However, since it is a constant infusion via osmotic pump, it does seem to simulate a longer lasting analog of GHRH such as CJC-1295.

Yep but unfortunately rats quickly desentisize to GHRH while humans don't. The following quote from the CJC-1295 study performed on rats:

After 2 h of exposure to CJC-1295, the level of GH eventually returns to the baseline value although the immunoreactive GRF level remains elevated. The lowering of GH concentration can be attributed to a number of reasons, such as down-regulation of the GRF receptor (22), a drop in pituitary GH content (28), or the multicomponent feedback loop regulated by somatostatin (29) and IGF-1/insulin (30).

At this point, no further experiments were undertaken to explain the reduction in plasma GH, because it is well established that there is receptor desensitization to GRF observed in rat cells, and the physiological relevance has not been correlated to receptor down-regulation in humans (31). - Human Growth Hormone-Releasing Factor (hGRF)1–29 Albumin Bioconjugates Activate the GRF Receptor on the Anterior Pituitary in Rats: Identification of CJC-1295 as a Long-Lasting GRF Analog, Lucie Jette´, Roger, et al., Endocrinology 2006 146(7):3052–3058

Further that footnote (31) leads to the following study whose title describes the content, Lack of in vivo somatotroph desensitization or depletion after 14 days of continuous growth hormone (GH)-releasing hormone administration in normal men and a GH-deficient boy, Vance ML, et al., J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1989 68:22–28

[pumbertot]

Originally Posted by datBtrue

Drop the T3 in PCT. That is not a time to boost metabolism if you want to retain your gains.

I dosed the T3 twice a day on an empty stomch. The first dose in the middle of the night and the second dose after working out (because that was the time during the day my stomach was empty.

I have a love hate relationship w/ T3.

I used it during the first month of my present cycle and then happened to get sick for a couple where I didn't take T3 so I ended up just dropping it.

The hate part - it always takes about 8 days for my metabolism to get back to reasonable after I stop T3.

Thanks to that fact & not making any other adjustments I gained about 2 pounds of fat in those 8 days ...continuing forward on the cycle for a few more weeks w/o T3 made me realize that I don't need it w/ CJC/GHRP-6 and that the benefit doesn't outway the costs for me.

T3 above 25mcg always makes me breathy in the gym and I hate that so no more T3 pour moi.

I'm already f@cking with so many other hormones (testosterone, insulin ...estrogen, DHT, LH, FSH...GHRH, Ghrelin-mimetic, somatostatin ...GH) why add to that?

dat what is your recommended stack exactly to run with cjc+ghrp6?
which gear would you recommend and dosages? keep in mind i want to keep my collagen at its best so prefer no winnie or too high test. you know your **** and i know mine too with AAS but im always open to your ideas as usually you have some sort of research behind it.
also whats your take on exemestane? ok to run day on day off year round or better way to run it? sorry for OT(not cjc+ghrp6) but hey......

[comacho]

Originally Posted by datBtrue

I've been using 100mcg for the last two weeks. It seems to really work well. I am dropping the dose down to 50mcg tomorrow and will make a subjective comparison.

Its not clear exactly what benefit or liability T3 will cause. Here is a snippet from

Amino Acids and Proteins for the Athlete By Mauro G. Di Pasquale which I do not yet own in hard cover.

Attachment 22556

...so there is no clear answer. I know it is additively anabolic... but is 100mcg too high? How about 50mcg?

i mean that little article boba (thanks for your feedback i dont mind your input either lol) and dat,

im not a goat but i thought it wouldnt hurt to add 12.5mcg of t3 for a few weeks thats all. Also Dr. D said T3 bumps up his test too, so reading those two i thought it would actually help with steroidogenesis at low dosage during PCT, now i must rethink, great lol.

Dat, have you tried T4 with better result then (in terms of fatloss during a cycle, not pct)? sounds interesting from dadams post.

and sorry to deviate from the main topic guys...i will shut up after this

lilke dat said i will be running so much **** for pct its gettin really confusing with dosing/timing and such, fun planning stuff out though lol

[Bobaslaw]

Originally Posted by comacho

i mean that little article boba (thanks for your feedback i dont mind your input either lol) and dat,

im not a goat but i thought it wouldnt hurt to add 12.5mcg of t3 for a few weeks thats all.

also Dr. D said T3 bumps up his test too.

Dat, have you tried T4 with better result then? sounds interesting from dadams post.

and sorry to deviate from the main topic guys...i will shut up after this

lilke dat said i will be running so much **** for pct its gettin really confusing with dosing/timing and such, fun planning stuff out though lol

Ahh, thanks for the correcton on the article referenced. The statement of decreased bioavailability of IGF is related to the changes in levels of different IGFBPs that can affect hepatic IGF-1 bioavailability. There is nothing conclusive (in studies) as far as I am concerned showing "diminished returns" on the typical T4/T3 dosages used with GH with/without AAS, however....

[Bobaslaw]

Originally Posted by poopypants

so iodine supports normal thyroid functioning?

Yes. The thyroid produces Thyroxine (T4) which is basically tyrosine and 4 iodine atoms, so you can see that a deficiency in iodine limits the synthesis of T4 as well as levels of triiodothyronine (T3) which T4 converts to. Iodine deficiency was so widespread in the US that id was decided to force supplementation by adding it to salt, thus "iodized" salt is a standard now...

will iodine boost normal production if its already working properly?

No, it is only one possible limiting factor in the production process. Rough example, its like a PC that uses 50% of its processor, adding another processor will not improve performance unless the 1st processor is maxed out...

..... is T-4 catabolic or anabolic? or is it dose dependant?

Dose dependant for both T4 and T3.

Generally to avoid catabolic effects when not combnined with AAS, T4 is run at around 100mcg or less and T3 is run at 25mcg or less (12.5mcg usually). There are many posts on this topic here so i won't go much more into this.

Dat, sorry for the major hijacking here. I will try to keep on topic from now on...

[poopypants]

thanks thats all I needed to hear, UR the man boba

/back to regular scheduled programming

[papapumpsd]

Dat, do you have this thread's scientific content (minus other posters' comments, replies, etc.) in PDF form? I'd love to have all this info in an e-book so-to-speak for ease of reading & reference. I have much catch-up reading to do due to my MIA

Hope all is well bro! Great thread!

-Papa!-

[datBtrue]

Originally Posted by pumbertot

...also whats your take on exemestane?ok to run day on day off year round or better way to run it? sorry for OT(not cjc+ghrp6) but hey......

Boring question ...so I am going to post something I find interesting but will probably bore you then I'll answer your question.

This gets into a topic I continually look into ...and that is the role of estrogen levels in males, the role of locally produced estrogen & its local use and the relationship between androgens & estrogen (two sides of the same coin?).

There are too many misconceptions about this topic.

Here are a few quotes from an article I am reading:

Oestradiol: an Endocrine or Paracrine Hormone?

Traditional endocrinology has assumed that, in the male, oestradiol synthesized by testicular Leydig cells and, to a lesser extent, by adipocytes and muscle, circulates in the bloodstream and acts throughout the body at sites where ERs are expressed (Fig. 2). Based on what we know now about the multiplicity of sites of ER expression, it seems somewhat incongruous that the relatively unchanging blood levels of oestrogens could regulate functions at this many different sites.

This raises the possibility that regulation is achieved predominantly by local production and action of oestradiol by conversion of the precursor, testosterone, which is produced by Leydig cells and which circulates at high levels in the bloodstream (Fig. 2). If this interpretation is correct, it would be expected that the enzyme aromatase would be expressed at many of the sites at which ERs are expressed.
...
...it is becoming increasingly clear that although oestradiol in blood emanates primarily from cells such as Leydig cells and adipocytes, these cells produce the oestradiol at least partly for local actions (Lafontan and Berlan 1995, Ge et al. 1996)

Androgens and Oestrogens:All a Question of Balance?

...
It is a remarkable coincidence that androgen receptors are expressed at the majority of sites at which ERs are expressed and, as aromatase is also expressed at many of the same sites (and possibly also 5-alpha-reductase), it can be envisaged that the local balance between oestrogen and androgen action could be finely regulated. We know already that androgens can regulate expression of aromatase at several sites. In this way, local modulation of the balance of androgen/oestrogen action could be envisaged to regulate target cell function.

There are some interesting pieces of evidence which suggest that it is the balance between androgen and oestrogen action that is important. The most dramatic example is ‘clover disease’ in sheep (Bennett et al. 1946), in which the ingestion of clover containing phytoestrogens (weak oestrogens) resulted in the deaths, owing to hypertrophy of the bulbo-urethral glands, of castrated rams (with low circulating testosterone levels) but had little effect on intact rams (with high circulating testosterone levels).

Another example is that quite similar developmental abnormalities of the male reproductive system can be induced by exposure to either an anti-androgen or an oestrogen (Toppari et al. 1996). Equally, gynaecomastia in males can be caused by either too much oestrogen or too little androgen (Bulun et al. 1997). - The Roles of Oestrogen in the Male, Richard M. Sharpe, TEM Vol. 9, No. 9, 1998

Back to your specific question

Originally Posted by pumbertot

...also whats your take on exemestane? ok to run day on day off year round or better way to run it?)

In light of the interplay between hormones the question always becomes "Why are you doing that & what do you want to achieve?"

When I tightly control estrogen on cycle I greatly limit my strength gain and consequently my gains. When I let estrogen levels rise I get stonger and the tissue behind my nipples firms up & swells.

I learn to live with the trade off and try to limit my on cycle estrogen control & live with the swelled nips until post-PCT & PCT. My actions there at that point reduce estrogen and the nipple problems.

Gram amounts of aromatizing steroids require tight estrogen control on cycle but 750mgs I've learned to not worry about.

But that is JUST ME. What you choose to do needs to come from knowing your own body.

If you understand the specifics of exemestane you can make the call on what is best for you.

From Exemestane Experience in Breast Cancer Treatment ,P. E. Lonning, J. SteroidBiochem. Molec. Biol. Vol. 61, No. 3-6, pp. 151-155, 1997

Exemestane is a very potent, orally active, selective and long-lasting steroidal irreversible inhibitor of aromatase.

Estrogen inhibition was clearly evident at 5 mg and, similar to what was seen in the other study, the maximal suppression for E2, E1 and E1S (>85%, >90% and >90%, respectively) was obtained during treatment with 10-25 mg a day. These data thus suggest a drug dose of 25 mg o.d. (the dose used for contemporary phase II and phase III trials) to be the optimal dose in relation to plasma estrogen suppression.
...
Maximal suppression of plasma estrogens were achieved with a drug dose of 25 mg; no further suppression was seen when the drug dose was escalated to 800 mg.
...
In general, exemestane is well tolerated. Androgenic side effects (hypertricosis, hair loss, hoarseness and acne) have been reported in about 4% of patients treated with 25 mg a day. Other side effects, such as hot flushes, increased sweating and nausea, are seen in 11, 4 and 3% of patients treated with exemestane 25 mg a day...

[datBtrue]

Originally Posted by pumbertot

dat what is your recommended stack exactly to run with cjc+ghrp6? which gear would you recommend and dosages?

Bro you know I'm not going to do that. I spend to much time answering questions on peptide dosing ...and I ain't gonna get into T3.

What I run comes from sadly learning that Deca & Tren cause me to have to undergo long PCTs and deal with getting yet one more "tricky" hormone back in check.

So I pretty much just run test & my oral of choice at the moment.

Which ones make me happy? Test, DBol & Deca
Which one make me either moody of feel bad? Tren, Winnie, Drol

For injuries (especially forearm pain) I liked Deca and Eq but in the end I found using nonsteroid compounds that draw water into the muscle to be just as effective as Deca..

...dude this topic is way too frick'in large. For you I'll answer anything though.

Off the top of my head, here are some of the (non-peptides & non-PCT items) compounds I've used:

Test Prop
Test E
Test Cyp
Tren E
Tren Ace
Parabolin
Eq
Deca
DBol
Anadrol
Winnie
Var

DHT transdermal
Test transdermal

DNP
Clen
T3

In the end though I feel that 95% of any gains I could make on a cycle will result from only the following things:

1. test/proper synergistic oral use
2. Hum-R
3. GH (CJC-1295/GHRP-6)
   
4. Eat, eat, eat (especially during the 10 hours slin is active)
5. Training (hitting each muscle group 2-3x per week & avoiding CNS exhaustion & lifing the way I describe here: Partial/Variable ROMS = Muscle Growth
6. Good sleep (2 days back to back off per week)