[Wood]

I thought I would give those of you just reading this an update on my RATS GHRP6 use so far. On Saturday it will be 2 weeks in at 100 twice a day. I haven't noticed a lot yet but I will say that he played basketball two days a week and for the past few years he just hasn't been able to get in shape like he could when he was younger. 4 or 5 games and he was shot, this week he played 8 games and 9 games on back to back nights and felt great doing it. I don't know that it's the GHRP but it's the only thing that has changed in 2 years. My rat is 36 so I really think this is helping.

[wophood]

Dat, when running cjc+ghrp at doses similar to pumbertot's (or any dose for that matter), you're suppose to dose on a empty stomach and avoid and carb for preferably at least thirty minutes. My question is when adding slin to your post workout regimen, what would be a good general rule of thumb for carb intake considering the two have quite different demands?

[datBtrue]

Originally Posted by Wood

... 4 or 5 games and he was shot, this week he played 8 games and 9 games on back to back nights and felt great doing it. I don't know that it's the GHRP but it's the only thing that has changed in 2 years.

Thats great to read. Probably deeper sleep/more restorative sleep as well.

My mood was the best when I was just using the GHRP-6. When I added the CJC-1295 is was better for growth but the lethargy was higher...

...just goes to show that in "properly life dipped guys", a little GH & good sleep goes a long way.

Originally Posted by Wood

My rat is 36 so I really think this is helping.

Thirty-six...my gawd! It may be time to get another rat. They're cheaper by the dozen by-the-way.

[DAdams91982]

Finally got through it all... wew.

So now, I have raised a question in my mind. I know GH has an inherent leaning out effect. But in one of the research posts you put up Dat, it stated that CJC/GHRP induces not only fat gain, but incites appetite. Now it only mentioned it for the first two weeks. I was going to utilize for a leaning out effect, but this part has me confused a bit. Can you clear this up just a tad for me? I pinned down what dosages I would like to utilize, but have some minor ideals I am missing.

Adams

[datBtrue]

Originally Posted by wophood

Dat, when running cjc+ghrp at doses similar to pumbertot's (or any dose for that matter), you're suppose to dose on a empty stomach and avoid and carb for preferably at least thirty minutes.

Fats blunt GH release more than carbs...but yes you got it. A lot of times I only wait 20 minutes or so.

Originally Posted by wophood

My question is when adding slin to your post workout regimen, what would be a good general rule of thumb for carb intake considering the two have quite different demands?

First keep in mind that we want GH to have been generated before taking the insulin. If we were just administering synthetic GH it wouldn't matter, but since we ask the pituitary to do it for us we need to wait the 20-30 minutes post CJC-1295/GHRP-6 administration so that our body releases the GH before we take in insulin and carbs.

PWO - my stomach is already empty so I administer CJC-1295/GHRP-6 when I get home.

30 minutes later I administer 4-5iu of Humulin-R and go eat my first meal.

4-5ius is not a LOT of insulin but I don't feel I need to use more because I love to use an insulin that is most active for 3 hours and mildly so for 2 more. I can get a lot accomplished during that time frame.

...and what I want to acomplish is to take in substantial amounts of protein, carbs and calories. Thats the whole point of using insulin/GH is to feed that muscle tissue ...fuel growth of new tissue.

Although I keep glucose tabs in my pocket my food intake is way more than adequate to meet the insulin spikes.

With Humulin-R the first spike hits about 30 minutes post-injection and the second spike hits about 2 hours post-injection.

For me I use whole foods and get three meals in in the first 2 hours or so.

The protein sources are usually easy to digest fish. The carb sources are usually oatmeal, ezekiel bread (or ezekiel cereal and pasta), fruits (usually grapes), brown rice, sweet potato. I also don't mind high G.I. carbs here and there.

Fats are kept to a minimum especially during the first 2-3 hours post administration.

At the three hour mark I have a more balanced meal with a fattier protein source - chicken, steak, etc.

As the insulin dissipates and we move closer to my final meals I shift away from carbs to fats/protein. That is where I take in my half-dozen eggs (cholesterol is needed to build muscle).

I'm not sure I answered your question though. If not ask again and I'll try to be more specific.

[wophood]

Not at all, you answered it to the T.

Originally Posted by datBtrue

Fats are kept to a minimum especially during the first 2-3 hours post administration.

Now when you say kept to a minimum, I realize that fats blunt gh release, but does that mean stay away from your essential fatty acids completely?

I'm getting ready to start my cycle after surgery to speed up the healing process. I plan on running cjc 200mcgs + ghrp 400 mcgs 3x daily (like Pum). Post workout will be my second pin of the day & I'll follow with the slin 30 minutes after. I was also going to throw in a little igf for some localized healing properties. Where would this best fit into the post workout regimen? I assume with the slin since the site would obviously not be muscle worked anyway, but I thought I'd ask while I had your attention.

[datBtrue]

GHRP-6 seems to effect people differently concerning appetite. A lot of people try to judge the quality of their GHRP-6 by appetite alone.

A better gauge is sleep. If the sleep is deeper then you are likely effecting night-time GH release positively.

Higher dosing seems to make the appetitie effect more intense as well.

When CJC-1295 is added to GHRP-6 I believe some of the hunger effect is reduced. The biggest hunger effect seems to come from:

- GHRP-6 alone
- higher doses
- earlier in the cycle of usage
- differences between people

Across the boards I see people post that it can be intense at first. IGF-1 can do so as well but apparently not as intensely.

Here is how I handle such cravings. It works very well. I use a couple of spoon fulls of psyllium powder to form a gel in my stomach and both slow digestion and create a feeling of satiety. The finer the powder the better.

However I found "Country Life Super Fiber Psyllium Seed Husk Powder" to be by far the best. It includes Apple Pectin and Slippery Elm and the powder is very fine. It really woks to kill cravings.

It also works to slow down digestion if you ever need to lower the Glycemic Load of a high G.I. food. Take blood glucose readings after eating a big choclate chip cookie. Then later take in the fiber first and then eat that same cookie and look at your blood glucose readings. You'll see a difference.

GHRP-6 is good for leaning out because it increases GH which has a positive effect at reducing visceral adipose tissue, especially the fat pad in the stomach area.

The fact that there is an associated hunger effect has nothing to do with the release of GH & the fatloss associated with it. That positive effect is always there whether you are hungry or not.

The trick is not to become too hungry, especially early on from the GHRP-6 such that you eat too much and ruin your diet.

Remember fiber is your friend. I always munch on carrots when I diet. The Glycemic load is low despite the GI rating, carrots are filling, good for you and I found they don't interfere with GHRP-6's GH-releasing mode of action.

Originally Posted by DAdams91982

Finally got through it all... wew.

So now, I have raised a question in my mind. I know GH has an inherent leaning out effect. But in one of the research posts you put up Dat, it stated that CJC/GHRP induces not only fat gain, but incites appetite. Now it only mentioned it for the first two weeks. I was going to utilize for a leaning out effect, but this part has me confused a bit. Can you clear this up just a tad for me? I pinned down what dosages I would like to utilize, but have some minor ideals I am missing.

Adams

[DAdams91982]

Great info Dat. I will definitely use your fiber trick. Since I will be starting off with GHRP-6 for a few weeks.

Man... my mouth is watering already... I will definitely keep you all updated.

Adams

[datBtrue]

Originally Posted by wophood

Now when you say kept to a minimum, I realize that fats blunt gh release, but does that mean stay away from your essential fatty acids completely?

No once we get to the eating part we are well past caring about GH release.

Also with CJC-1295, GHRH will always be available to interact with GH-releasing somatotrohs whenver the body is ready. We have to eat...so the good thing about long-lasting GHRH is that we don't have to overly worry or micro-manage our eating patterns.

The "limited fats" is simply to minimize the potential storage of fats in the presence of an energy substrate (carbs) that the body will preferentially make use of.

Originally Posted by wophood

I was also going to throw in a little igf for some localized healing properties. Where would this best fit into the post workout regimen? I assume with the slin since the site would obviously not be muscle worked anyway, but I thought I'd ask while I had your attention.

That would be good. The timing of the IGF-1 post workout is simply to try to get as much localized effect (measured in minutes) on a recently worked muscle as is possible...before the IGF-1 systemically circulates (measured in hours).

...however IGF-1 LR3 has a longer half-life so if you are trying to use it to add to overall levels, to get an elevation, it doesn't much matter when as long as it is frequent enough to sustain those levels.

I think injured tissue is always ready. Maybe dosing near the injured tissue as frequently as is possible is a good idea.

[wophood]

Awesome, now lastly & then I'll leave you alone (for now, lol). I will split the igf into EOD dosing (taking into consideration the 72 hour half life). One dose at site of injury, the other on lagging body part. Would it be an entirely bad idea to work the lagging body part earlier in the day in a seperate workout so that I could avoid the blocking of gh release I would endure by pinning the ghrp+cjc in conjunction with the igf immediately post WO in the second normal workout? This is assuming the body part being worked previously in the day (with the igf) would not clash with the muscles being worked in the latter routine. Not sure if it'd be worth the trouble, just an idea I was bouncing around.

I tried to write that as clearly as possible. lol

[datBtrue]

Originally Posted by wophood

Would it be an entirely bad idea to work the lagging body part earlier in the day in a seperate workout so that I could avoid the blocking of gh release I would endure by pinning the ghrp+cjc in conjunction with the igf immediately post WO in the second normal workout?

That might be a good idea. The IGF-1 negative feedback/inhibition occurs at the hypothalamus not the pituitary.

So since CJC-1295 is THE growth hormone releasing hormone which interacts with the pituitary to effect GH release we won't worry much about IGF-1's effect on that peptide.

However GHRP-6 works at both the pituitary & hypothalamus so that is the peptidyl conflict we are most concerned with.

I still don't know "how much" IGF-1 causes inhibition & for "how long".

With regard to GH inhibiting further release I did find this statement "...extremely high GH concentrations are required to reach the inhibitory phase of both receptor signaling and internalization..." * but I have not looked at the references for that statement in detail.

* - Pharmacokinetics and acute lipolytic actions of growth hormone, Troels Krarup Hansen, Growth Hormone & IGF Research 2002, 12, 342–358

[datBtrue]

Originally Posted by datBtrue

I still don't know "how much" IGF-1 causes inhibition & for "how long".

Well here is a little something for you Dat.

Insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1)-induced inhibition of growth hormone secretion is associated with sleep suppression, F. Obál Jr., L. Kapás, J. Gardi, P. Taishi, B. Bodosi, J. M. Krueger, Brain Research, Volume 818, Issue 2, 13 February 1999, Pages 267-274

On Growth Hormone Suppression:

"...A dose of 5.0 mcg IGF-1 suppressed or delayed the GH surges: plasma GH concentration was significantly less than on the baseline day 30 min postinjection. A rise in plasma GH concentration was observed at the end of hour 1 after IGF-1 injection in most of the rats; complete suppression of GH secretion for 3 hours occurred only in two rats.

Calculated for the 3-hour sampling period, the total assayable GH concentrations did not differ between the baseline and the experimental days."

On IGF-1 dosed before sleep:

"Previously, we reported that 0.05 mcg IGF-1 enhanced NREMS (non-Rem Sleep) whereas the sleep-promoting activity vanished as the dose was increased to 0.5 mcg with the effect turning into a prompt sleep suppression after 5.0 mcg IGF-1 in the rat."

So with IGF-1 (not LR3) we have GH suppression that lasted primarily an hour with up to 3 hours in some.

BUT the temporary supression didn't seem to effect the overall GH secretion.

Also IGF-1 before bed supressed Non-Rem sleep. Again night-time GH-release & Non-Rem sleep are positively correlated. It seems if you effect one you effect the other.