Nutrient Partitioning War: Slin, IGF-1 LR3, Anabolic Pump/P-slin
- 05-08-2008, 04:21 PM
Nutrient Partitioning War: Slin, IGF-1 LR3, Anabolic Pump/P-slin
I'd like to discuss the partitioning effects of said compounds / hormones.
IGF-1 is said to be like insulin-like in it's structure and ability to partition nutrients. How strong of an insulin-like effect does it exert? Furthermore, if it's being substituted for diabetic patients in place of insulin, why would it not be superior? Is this because it's safer?
What would be the best way to run IGF-1 if one were looking to benefit from it's partitioning abilities. Asume one had a day were one consumed many carbs. Could one use a large dose at the begining of the day and benefit from the 8-12 hour half life while nutrients are shuttled efficiently to empty liver and muscle glycogen stores.
While taking IGF-1, would it be redundant or useless to also use AP/p-slin for the same reasons?
Thoughts? Opinions? Studies? Insight? Tripknowledge?
- 05-08-2008, 06:29 PM
Insulin initiates glucose transport into tissues (muscle, adipose, etc) via GLUT-4, a intracellular glucose transporter. IGF-1 has a much weaker action on GLUT-4 compared to insulin.
Anabolic Pump/P-Slin have actives that claim to stimulate GLUT-4 without the need for greater insulin levels. Obviously you can see the certain benefits of this, especially since USPLabs claims that GLUT-4 stimulation does not occur in adipose tissue via these supplements, thus maximal uptake occurs in muscle and not fat.
Also, there are other actions that are different between Insulin and IGF-1 on amino acid transport for example. Here is a related excerpt:
IGF-1 and insulin both do very similar things: they both attach to receptors of muscle cells. The receptors are very similar. These receptors are part of the cell membrane structure. GH and insulin both increase the cellular membrane permeability of certain amino acids, to thus facilitate the transfer of those amino acids into the muscle cells into the sarco-plasm.
The amino acids that insulin facilitates to cross are different than the amino acids that IGF-1 helps to cross. The entire array of both of them combined is what is necessary for "proteo-genesis" (new protein for muscles). It is like a double key system in a bank safe: you need both keys, or you can't open the safe. You need ALL the amino acids that IGF-1 helps to cross AND all the amino acids that insulin helps to cross, or you can't have proteo-genesis.
High IGF-1 with low insulin has no anabolic effect because to have new proteo-genesis you need ALL the amino acids helped across by IGF-1 AND of insulin. Low IGF-1 and high insulin also does not help to build muscle because IGF-1 is missing, so the amino acid array is incomplete.
The study below has a great table/chart of comparisons at the end.
A SITUATION DETERMINED MODEL OF THE BODY METABOLISM:
ROLES OF IGF-1 AND INSULIN DEPENDENT GLUT 4
- 05-08-2008, 11:01 PM
05-09-2008, 07:14 AM
My take on IGF-1
The growth-promoting activity of insulin itself is due to its limited ability to bind to IGF-I receptor. To do this, insulin has to be present in high concentrations because the affinity of the IGF-I receptor for insulin is about 1000x less than the affinity of the insulin receptor for insulin. IGF-II can also productively bind to the IGF-I receptor, albeit with much lower affinity. Thus, all three factors are growth-promoting, and IGF-II and insulin become important when IGF-I is low or absent. Presumably, IGFs can cross over to the insulin receptor in the absence of insulin, although this sort of rescue may not be important in insulin-deficient diabetes.
Although the source material doesn't exactly say ...it appears that the insulin receptor has a weak (rather than strong) binding affinity for IGFs...is it 1000x less...maybe?
05-09-2008, 07:18 AM
05-09-2008, 10:50 AM
From an exchange I had yesterday in a thread:
Originally Posted by nattydisasterOriginally Posted by MulletsoldierOriginally Posted by Mulletsoldier
05-10-2008, 11:52 AM
hey all this talk of using igf, hope thats not mine you are referring to bro.
seriously though I dont think you can use igf instead of slin. use them both together for a good nutirent shuttling+anabolic effect.
btw ephedrine hcl also has good nutrient shuttling abilities.
05-12-2008, 10:25 AM
05-12-2008, 11:34 AM
05-12-2008, 11:40 AM
05-12-2008, 11:54 AM
05-12-2008, 12:15 PM
05-12-2008, 12:18 PM
05-12-2008, 12:31 PM
Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all night.
Back on topic,
So for my higher carb days... I'll have the insulin pumping because of the carbs, but if I throw in IGF-1, it will create the full anabolic effect of those carbs effectively being shuttled where i want?
05-13-2008, 12:01 AM
05-13-2008, 12:49 AM
05-14-2008, 03:56 PM
There is evidence it attenuates fatigue, but that is about it.
datBtru, how were you dosing the product? You are quite knowledgeable, so I assume you did your research, but maybe I can help you recuperate the money you spent on AP with some effects.
05-15-2008, 03:01 PM
05-16-2008, 11:25 AM
05-16-2008, 11:28 AM
05-16-2008, 11:41 AM
05-16-2008, 12:20 PM
And there are a lot of muppets out there who will tell you Tribulus raises their testosterone based on nothing but subjective sexual drive. It's a hard world for supplements.
05-16-2008, 01:38 PM
Mull bro I know what you're saying & I don't disagree w/ it but to say "there is not a single shred of credible evidence on the planet" to support the ability to get a few more reps might be incorrect.
Hey I appreciate your offer to help me out ...I sometimes forget that a post can be read by a wider audience so it is appropriate for me to say that I benefited from USPLAbs Cissus and the original Powerful ...they were great products. Also when Campo-whatever became appropriately priced I thought that was a quality Bacopa extract & enjoyed that product as well.
...but as far as your offer to help me out...right now I am a nutrient partitioning machine. My vascularity is very very freaky, my bodyfat is very low and my muscle bellies are full ...I am one beautiful mutha-f@cka ...no brag just fact ...no actually it is both.
I don't mind taking a flier on a supplement that turns out not to work... a supplement that shows no ability to dispose of glucose as measured objectively w/ my glucometer ...it doesn't matter to me bro.
This won't prevent me from purchasing a quality herb if it is appropriately priced from USPLabs in the future.
05-16-2008, 02:12 PM
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