Peptides on low of no carb diets?!?!?

[Distilled Water]

I've been searching for the past few weeks and have found little info on people running IGF-1 on a low/no carb diet. Probably due to the fact of the hypo symptoms most get while useing IGF.

Has anyone here done this before?

Would it be possible to run IGF/peg-MGF on low carb or carb free diet?

 

[3clipseGT]

PegMGF i could see happening. The only way i could see IGF would be on a carb cycle. I would get hypo at random times if i didnt have enough carbs in my while on IGF. Wasnt pleasant. :lol:

 

[Distilled Water]

Hrm....what if the subject had a schedule like this

Sun:Carb Load...OFF
Mon: Minimal Carbs...Training
Tue: Minimal Cabrs...Training
Wed: Carb Load...OFF
Thur: Minimal Carbs...Training
Fri: Minimal carbs...Training
Sat: Minimal Carbs...OFF

 

[RedwolfWV]

Personally, I would never run IGF on a low carb diet. You are taking away the fuel that IGF uses to create new cells. IGF uses LOTS of carbs! I would think it would just be a waste of IGF on a low carb diet.

 

[Distilled Water]

Personally, I would never run IGF on a low carb diet. You are taking away the fuel that IGF uses to create new cells. IGF uses LOTS of carbs! I would think it would just be a waste of IGF on a low carb diet.

What about if carbs were taken just breakfast/pre/post. Say about 100gr at each serving?

 

[sureshot!]

PegMGF i could see happening. The only way i could see IGF would be on a carb cycle. I would get hypo at random times if i didnt have enough carbs in my while on IGF. Wasnt pleasant. :lol:

100% with him on this one.

I was taking it a retarded amount of carbs and was STILL getting hypo sometimes. My Post-W/O shakes were 50g grated oats / 50g Dextrose, so normally you'd expect not to have any hypo problems with the dextrose present, but i'd still get it. It's scary sometimes.

If you were carb cycling, I'd be sure to pin only on high carb days, otherwise you would be playing with fire. Even then, it can't be a good idea IMO.

 

[sureshot!]

What about if carbs were taken just breakfast/pre/post. Say about 100gr at each serving?

I'd feel more comfortable about that, but i'd make sure to have a Gateroade handy. You are going to need to talk to someone more experienced who is familiar with how long the agents are going to be present in your system and how long they will be there. If you take in 100g post w/o, you may still go hypo hours after. Without gatorade a juice box or some of those candies they sell for people with diabetes, you could fall into trouble

If you haven't I'd consider reading up on the insulin sticky/thread. A majority of the thread deals with combating hypo, when it can occur, etc. Once you have an idea of what the whole thing entails, then perhaps you can make a better judgment regarding your diet while on peptides like MGF or IGF.

 

[RedwolfWV]

Grunt could probably answer that question better than I can. My rule of thumb is, when I'm using IGF, I don't spare the carbs. The more I eat (within reason) the better results. I wouldn't use IGF if my goal was cutting. There are better (and much cheaper) options out there.

 

[Distilled Water]

The goal isn't cutting. It's lean mass thru carb manipulation. Well was carb manipulation,lol. Hrm.....

 

[sureshot!]

The goal isn't cutting. It's lean mass thru carb manipulation. Well was carb manipulation,lol. Hrm.....

What does you dosing schedule look like?

I believe the insta-effects of IGF are overrated and the real benefits only become present months down the road..

 

[Distilled Water]

Maybe just nix the igf-1 all together and pick up another peptide?

 

[Distilled Water]

What does you dosing schedule look like?

I believe the insta-effects of IGF are overrated and the real benefits only become present months down the road..

Without Carbs...20mcg bi-laterally (40mcg total) Mon/Tue/Thur/Fri

With Carbs 20-30mcg bi-laterlly (40-60mcg total) Mon/Wed/Fri

peggMGF would be sun/wed (off days in the AM before carb load)

 

[sureshot!]

I said it before, but I think the only way I'd do it is by pinning on high carb days. Otherwise it'd just be bnb ( bad news bears. ) You'd have nothing to combat the hypo.

 

[Distilled Water]

Or maybe they should stop being such a biotch and get on a higher carb diet :lol:

 

[datBtrue]

The goal isn't cutting. It's lean mass thru carb manipulation. Well was carb manipulation,lol. Hrm.....

IGF-1 is not like insulin...your blood sugar will likely not drop below 70 mg/dl but it may drop below 90...into the 80's which will make you feel hungry and (fake hypo).

I've manipulated carbs and run a low dose IGF-1 throughout for four or five months w/o any problem.

The first 3 days of the week carbs were moderate...those were the workout days (M,T,W). The next 3 days were low cal higher fat w/ carbs below 30g per day. Sunday was a transition day.

10mcg of IGF-1 was used every day PWO on those days and in the evening on the low carb days. It was run for all those months without a problem.

 

[sureshot!]

IGF-1 is not like insulin...your blood sugar will likely not drop below 70 mg/dl but it may drop below 90...into the 80's which will make you feel hungry and (fake hypo).

I've manipulated carbs and run a low dose IGF-1 throughout for four or five months w/o any problem.

The first 3 days of the week carbs were moderate...those were the workout days (M,T,W). The next 3 days were low cal higher fat w/ carbs below 30g per day. Sunday was a transition day.

10mcg of IGF-1 was used every day PWO on those days and in the evening on the low carb days. It was run for all those months without a problem.

Maybe the difference is between a 10mcg dose and a 40mcg dose?

 

[Distilled Water]

Did you use 10mcg total or bi-lateral? Also where did you shoot?

 

[datBtrue]

Did you use 10mcg total or bi-lateral? Also where did you shoot?

10mcg total. There is no need to go bilateral if you run it for such a long-time. PWO I shot the muscle worked. Just remember to changes sides the following week.

10mcg ED did not seem to stop working at any point so the dose was low enough...

If I were to use a higher amount I would not run it ED. I've used 30mcg E3D for three months before and it continued to work throughout.

There is nothing wrong w/ you trying your protocol & dosing scheme and then see how you feel. If you feel hypo then make an adjustment.

 

[Distilled Water]

10mcg total. There is no need to go bilateral if you run it for such a long-time. PWO I shot the muscle worked. Just remember to changes sides the following week.

10mcg ED did not seem to stop working at any point so the dose was low enough...

If I were to use a higher amount I would not run it ED. I've used 30mcg E3D for three months before and it continued to work throughout.

There is nothing wrong w/ you trying your protocol & dosing scheme and then see how you feel. If you feel hypo then make an adjustment.

Gotcha, so you def seen benifits form this ehh???

Good to know. I like the idea of dosing each day get the distribution across the whole body. This would also extend the life of the IGF-1

 

[datBtrue]

Maybe the difference is between a 10mcg dose and a 40mcg dose?

No doubt about it. A higher dose disposes of more glucose. I've taken blood glucose readings at 40mcg and there is a drop in blood glucose levels. Also taken w/ insulin at 40mcg IGF-1 does contribute a little more then slin by itself but not a lot to lower blood glucose readings.

The insulin will drop the blood glucose to dangerous levels but IGF-1 by itself in my experience will not...

...but then again we are all different and what happens in my body may or may not happen in someone elses. Thats why it is good to try things out for yourself and take your own readings or see how you feel and then make an adjustment if needed.

sureshot! I am getting f@ckin dizzy looking at your avatar...I feel light-headed. I am going to pass out!

 

[Distilled Water]

I was going to pick up a blood glucose meter and do reading each day anways. Maybe try a few low/mod/higher dose readings.

The low-dose like to mentioned looks good. As long as the benefits are there. Maybe not as fast but low dose over time= long term gains=easier to manage

 

[CryingEmo]

I'm on the AD diet and employ igf-1 for my research rats.


I think the peptide should work around your diet, not the other way around.


AD Diet > IGF-1

 

[sureshot!]

I'm on the AD diet and employ igf-1 for my research rats.


I think the peptide should work around your diet, not the other way around.


AD Diet > IGF-1

Reps for this.

Definitely the most true thing about life ( if fitness = life that is )

Diet always comes first imo.

 

[sureshot!]

10mcg total. There is no need to go bilateral if you run it for such a long-time. PWO I shot the muscle worked. Just remember to changes sides the following week.

10mcg ED did not seem to stop working at any point so the dose was low enough...

If I were to use a higher amount I would not run it ED. I've used 30mcg E3D for three months before and it continued to work throughout.

Just because I'm curious, how long total have you been dosing LR3? The first 3 months were the common dose E3D, and afterwards was 10mcg ED.

In my experience, the full benefit of the IGF isn't realized until 60-90 days later ( assuming no AAS ) as that's when the myo's have grown. If you have been noticing size increases and it's only been a total of 6-7 months, the size still might be from the 30mcg doses.

Again, I'm not a scientist, I don't have a degree in organic chemistry and I likely have spent less time reading than most, so I don't claim to know anything- I'm just basing my opinions and thoughts off of personal experience and thorough readings of the topic.

:drunk:

 

[datBtrue]

Just because I'm curious, how long total have you been dosing LR3? The first 3 months were the common dose E3D, and afterwards was 10mcg ED.

In my experience, the full benefit of the IGF isn't realized until 60-90 days later ( assuming no AAS ) as that's when the myo's have grown. If you have been noticing size increases and it's only been a total of 6-7 months, the size still might be from the 30mcg doses.

Again, I'm not a scientist, I don't have a degree in organic chemistry and I likely have spent less time reading than most, so I don't claim to know anything- I'm just basing my opinions and thoughts off of personal experience and thorough readings of the topic.

:drunk:

I've used IGF-1 many times over the years w/ many types of protocols.

30mcg E3D was a single 3 month run....followed by nothing.

10mcg ED was almost 6 months straight...followed by nothing else.

I've use on and off cycles in doses as high as 100mcg.

I've used IGF-1 from many sources.

The ONLY benefit is in HPTA recovery in PCT & in its insulin-like properties (which is why I run it...). I am far from alone in saying that there is zero hyperplasia-like muscle growth from IGF-1 LR3.

 

[CryingEmo]

I've used IGF-1 many times over the years w/ many types of protocols.

30mcg E3D was a single 3 month run....followed by nothing.

10mcg ED was almost 6 months straight...followed by nothing else.

I've use on and off cycles in doses as high as 100mcg.

I've used IGF-1 from many sources.

The ONLY benefit is in HPTA recovery in PCT & in its insulin-like properties (which is why I run it...). I am far from alone in saying that there is zero hyperplasia-like muscle growth from IGF-1 LR3.

What do you think about peg-mgf?

 

[datBtrue]

What do you think about peg-mgf?

I've only used the non-peg version way back when...so I don't have any feedback. I am open minded though & Grunt has said LR3 and pegMgf work together so maybe...

I'm going to try using rhigf-1 pinning high doses multiple times per day. I fully understand the reasons why some say it won't work...but it seems to me that Gropep's LR3 altered IGF-1 in a way that prevents it from working well as a muscle builder. I have met several guys who experimented a few years back with rhigf-1 (at great expense) and benefited. One even had before and after Hydrostatic Body Fat Testing to verify that he had gained lean tissue. So we'll see...

I just started pGH and noticed a big mood improvemnt, better sleep & more energy straight away...so I want to run that for a few months first.

 

[Don Corleone]

For the thread starter:

I've been on a ketogenic-type diet wihle using Lr3 IGF-1 50mcg EOD-E3D PWO only with Peg-MGF 500mcg E3D 24 hours prior to IGF. The only time I eat carbs (other than one scheduled massive refeed a week where I eat whatever I want and as much as I want) is PWO when I pin the IGF; only ~60g waxy maize starch in my PWO shake, no other carbs except leafy/green veggies and nuts. I'm not sure if it's the peptides, but my kcals are quite high, and I'm still netting a 1 lb. loss a week while increasing strength/performance. Just my experience.

EDIT: I should also mention that I am prone to going hypoglycemic and therefore MUST eat every 2-3 hours...when on a regular/modest carb intake diet. While doing this, and prior to the peptides without any PWO carbs, my blood sugar has never been so stable in my life. No ups, no downs, just smooth sailing.

 

[pumbertot]

I've used IGF-1 many times over the years w/ many types of protocols.

30mcg E3D was a single 3 month run....followed by nothing.

10mcg ED was almost 6 months straight...followed by nothing else.

I've use on and off cycles in doses as high as 100mcg.

I've used IGF-1 from many sources.

The ONLY benefit is in HPTA recovery in PCT & in its insulin-like properties (which is why I run it...). I am far from alone in saying that there is zero hyperplasia-like muscle growth from IGF-1 LR3.

but have you tried higher doses over shorter runs?
e.g. 100mcg EOD for 5weeks?

 

[CryingEmo]

I've been tempted to try 60-80 mg IGF-1 LR3 ED until my receptors are overloaded. So, for 4 weeks or so.

 

[Distilled Water]

I just started pGH and noticed a big mood improvemnt, better sleep & more energy straight away...so I want to run that for a few months first.

When are you adminestering that?

 

[datBtrue]

When are you adminestering that?

500mcg before bed. I've been using it for a week so far...will follow Werewolf's advice and take a couple days off a week and a week off each month.

 

[Distilled Water]

500mcg before bed. I've been using it for a week so far...will follow Werewolf's advice and take a couple days off a week and a week off each month.

Thats what I did last year.

Im thinking of trying 250mcg in the morning and later in the day (about 3 hr pre workout)

 

[blackheart]

The short version is that I'd say it doesn't matter, but I feel I must go off on a little tangential rant first...

I doubt very strongly that the stuff that's available on the grey market is what the sellers indicate it is, it's no wonder it never seems to do anything. I've (foolishly) tried much of it at one point or another myself and my opinion is that it was probably rat semen, or in the best case scenario something totally biologically inert.

The marketers I'm thinking of will blame the handling, which is ironic since they seem to have an inordinate amount of trouble shipping things. You'd think that people purporting to be in a legitimate mail order business would be a little more adept at fulfillment.

I would hope that you have a quasi-medical / university / (bona fide) research source and it's not the mail order stuff, otherwise it seems somewhat irrelevant to wonder about your carbohydrate intake.

Your body has no trouble producing IGF whether you are ingesting carbs (convenient as an energy substrate but otherwise entirely nonessential for human beings) or not. If anything, glycogen depletion is going to INCREASE the amount of GH your body produces in response to a workout.

That said, beyond getting your EFAs, 1-1.5g of protein/# LBM, then hitting your energy balance precisely, I doubt very much that it matters what else you eat. You can fill in the balance of your kCals will McDonald's if you want and still achieve your desired bodycomp (though your health might otherwise suffer); the only possible exception to this being PWO, and even then the window of opportunity is limited to about 4 hours in trained individuals. Most other things, nutrient timing, six meals/day, carb cutoffs, etc have been scientifically discredited. Your CKD/TKD diets might provide a slight edge, but for all the suffering they cause and the level of OCD required to plan and sustain them correctly, it's more gravy than anything else.

Back to your regularly scheduled program...

 

[pumbertot]

I just started pGH and noticed a big mood improvemnt, better sleep & more energy straight away...so I want to run that for a few months first.

by pGH are you meaning non-sythetic GH or porcine GH? sorry for the confusion but pGH means both of the above to me if not specified which.

 

[pumbertot]

The short version is that I'd say it doesn't matter, but I feel I must go off on a little tangential rant first...

I doubt very strongly that the stuff that's available on the grey market is what the sellers indicate it is, it's no wonder it never seems to do anything. I've (foolishly) tried much of it at one point or another myself and my opinion is that it was probably rat semen, or in the best case scenario something totally biologically inert.

The marketers I'm thinking of will blame the handling, which is ironic since they seem to have an inordinate amount of trouble shipping things. You'd think that people purporting to be in a legitimate mail order business would be a little more adept at fulfillment.

I would hope that you have a quasi-medical / university / (bona fide) research source and it's not the mail order stuff, otherwise it seems somewhat irrelevant to wonder about your carbohydrate intake.

Your body has no trouble producing IGF whether you are ingesting carbs (convenient as an energy substrate but otherwise entirely nonessential for human beings) or not. If anything, glycogen depletion is going to INCREASE the amount of GH your body produces in response to a workout.

That said, beyond getting your EFAs, 1-1.5g of protein/# LBM, then hitting your energy balance precisely, I doubt very much that it matters what else you eat. You can fill in the balance of your kCals will McDonald's if you want and still achieve your desired bodycomp (though your health might otherwise suffer); the only possible exception to this being PWO, and even then the window of opportunity is limited to about 4 hours in trained individuals. Most other things, nutrient timing, six meals/day, carb cutoffs, etc have been scientifically discredited. Your CKD/TKD diets might provide a slight edge, but for all the suffering they cause and the level of OCD required to plan and sustain them correctly, it's more gravy than anything else.

Back to your regularly scheduled program...

id have to agree though luckily im about to go on some stuff that I know is good as 2 of the guys at the local gym have been using this IGF+MGF(not peg) into their bis,tris and delts and all I can say is wow after about 3 months I have never seen thier arms/delts look so large, I mean freaky large.

I will post a thread on here as soon as im ready. and I will really be able to guage where all the gains are coming from as I have not used AAS in nearly 3 years since suffering a full pec tear and wont be using them until late this year(after the pec repair funnily enough=long story why its not yet correctly repaired)

 

[datBtrue]

by pGH are you meaning non-sythetic GH or porcine GH? sorry for the confusion but pGH means both of the above to me if not specified which.

Neither. It is something previously made popular by a former board sponsor who also sold a transdermal version.

pGH is a growth hormone stimulate that contains 3 main ingredients.

1 - GABA a neurotransmitter with a stabilizing role in the brain that has a calming effect. GABA may also increase levels of human growth hormone.

2 - GABOB is another natural substance related to GABA also known as aminohydroxybutyric acid or Buxamin (a molecule that is very similar to GHB)

3 - Magnesium amino-bromohydrate

 

[Distilled Water]

The short version is that I'd say it doesn't matter, but I feel I must go off on a little tangential rant first...

I doubt very strongly that the stuff that's available on the grey market is what the sellers indicate it is, it's no wonder it never seems to do anything. I've (foolishly) tried much of it at one point or another myself and my opinion is that it was probably rat semen, or in the best case scenario something totally biologically inert.

The marketers I'm thinking of will blame the handling, which is ironic since they seem to have an inordinate amount of trouble shipping things. You'd think that people purporting to be in a legitimate mail order business would be a little more adept at fulfillment.

I would hope that you have a quasi-medical / university / (bona fide) research source and it's not the mail order stuff, otherwise it seems somewhat irrelevant to wonder about your carbohydrate intake.

Your body has no trouble producing IGF whether you are ingesting carbs (convenient as an energy substrate but otherwise entirely nonessential for human beings) or not. If anything, glycogen depletion is going to INCREASE the amount of GH your body produces in response to a workout.

That said, beyond getting your EFAs, 1-1.5g of protein/# LBM, then hitting your energy balance precisely, I doubt very much that it matters what else you eat. You can fill in the balance of your kCals will McDonald's if you want and still achieve your desired bodycomp (though your health might otherwise suffer); the only possible exception to this being PWO, and even then the window of opportunity is limited to about 4 hours in trained individuals. Most other things, nutrient timing, six meals/day, carb cutoffs, etc have been scientifically discredited. Your CKD/TKD diets might provide a slight edge, but for all the suffering they cause and the level of OCD required to plan and sustain them correctly, it's more gravy than anything else.

Back to your regularly scheduled program...

:blink:

Anyways.... Datbrut, what do you think of my doseing protocol? I also have some I-GH-1 and bulk 1-Carboxy I may also use before bed.

 

[CryingEmo]

After all of the comments in this thread, I'm no longer sure about anything.

 

[pumbertot]

After all of the comments in this thread, I'm no longer sure about anything.

your inbox is full mate.

 

[CryingEmo]

your inbox is full mate.

Sorry, I emptied it.

 

[sureshot!]

After all of the comments in this thread, I'm no longer sure about anything.

I feel you on this, I'm starting to question the gains I thought I received before from peptides, and i'm starting to question the legitimacy of the products I've purchased and intended on purchasing again.

It sucks

 

[Distilled Water]

I feel you on this, I'm starting to question the gains I thought I received before from peptides, and i'm starting to question the legitimacy of the products I've purchased and intended on purchasing again.

It sucks

Why, because of what Blackheart wrote?

 

[sureshot!]

I I am far from alone in saying that there is zero hyperplasia-like muscle growth from IGF-1 LR3.

This also. I take datBtrue to be a more proven and reputable member than blackheart, who easily could be extremely knowledgeable also.. we just don't know if he is talking out of his ass or not.

 

[Distilled Water]

This also. I take datBtrue to be a more proven and reputable member than blackheart, who easily could be extremely knowledgeable also.. we just don't know if he is talking out of his ass or not.

Ok then were on the same page, lol. Just wanted to make sure.

 

[pumbertot]

I feel you on this, I'm starting to question the gains I thought I received before from peptides, and i'm starting to question the legitimacy of the products I've purchased and intended on purchasing again.

It sucks

i wouldnt question those gains at all. these peptides work, ive seen too much proof of this to think otherwise. but yes you need a trusted source. if you can get access to a test lab then its worth paying for it.

 

[datBtrue]

Guys please please please don't start questioning your gains. I'm sure they are real gains. I use IGF-1 LR3 all the time...I really like it...because for me it is like running a low-dose of insulin w/o all the problems assosciated w/ slin.

I love it for PCT...I won't do a PCT w/o a little IGF-1 LR3 (just daily small doses for 2 weeks is all that is needed).

I don't want to get into it but I can verify that I had some serious medical problems that never would heal...for 15 years I had these problems. Running a couple of courses of IGF-1 LR3 flat out cured my problems. The best doctors confirmed that I was healed & shook their head w/ amazement...it wasn't the 10s of thousands of dollars I spent on doctors & the best diagnostic procedures, etc...it was the few 100s of dollars I spent on IGF-1 LR3 that made my life problem free.

The good news is that those early courses of IGF-1 LR3 came from "mail order houses" They came from a former board sponsor who is again a board sponsor but only for their non-research chems. I have used plenty of IGF-1 LR3 in unreconstituted lyophilized form from many sources ...I guess we can put them in the category of "mail order houses" I laugh because some of those same sources sold gear which tested at SRS as being pure and also sold GH which anectdotal feedback indicated it was legit (swelled wrists etc.). My point is the IGF-1 LR3 from a lot of the "mail order houses" was (is) legit (and so says my blood glucose tests)...

Most of all I laugh at those people such as myself that make categorical statements which seem to elevate them as THE penultimate source of knowledge...they are not and I am certainly not.

The only negative opinion I hold concerning IGF-1 LR3 and again it is my opinion is that it is not DIRECTLY responsible for hyperplasia-like muscle growth locally...but I have decided to remain open-minded systemically. I know it contributes to overall growth in ME. Is it because it is an awesome nutrient shuttling agent or is their some hyperplasia-like muscle growth...???...I don't know...I'd like to say I don't care but I do & I'm curious.

I can't seem to distinguish between any possible direct gain from the peptide and the course of anabolics I have run...but I do know the peptide contributes.

I am open to the fact that others respond better than I & that I am wrong...and in the following thread w/ Grunt I even admit to being a d1ck http://anabolicminds.com/forum/igf-1-gh/52017-my-take-igf-27.html#post1218156

From that thread though I clarified exactly what I meant concerning IGF-1 LR3 so I'll quote it below:

IGF-1 is good at shuttling carbs to the muscles. It can also make you hungry by rapidly lowering blood glucose levels. Get out your blood glucose monitor and measure the effect it has on blood sugar…you DO have the ability to directly observe this…in your own body.

IGF-1 is not alone in this regard…Insulin, IGF-1, R-Ala, Vanadyl Sulfate, all to some varying degree increase the shuttling of carbs to the muscles…some are more effective & selective then others. IGF-1 may have a selective advantage over Insulin.

The most outwardly observable effect of IGF-1 is that of blood glucose pumping…this is probably why so many users think IGF-1 is such a great drug. But please don’t confuse that effect with real muscle growth.

I like IGF-1…and I use it in small doses over long periods of time. I benefit from it when I diet. I benefit from it when I bulk.

I benefit from it when I am in PCT…in salmon it has been shown to increase Follicle-Stimulating Hormone…I don’t disregard animal studies…and think they have value…

And as part of an overall program that involves spot on nutrition, recovery and training IGF-1 is a tool I use to build a better body.

As for Grunt I did not mean to disparage him personally…although it is clear from the words I chose that I did…so for that I apologize.

Now having said that…do I believe that IGF-1 promotes localized growth…no (but neither do I believe test suspension (in water) does either).

Do I believe IGF-1 is directly responsible for muscular hyperplasia in humans…I should clarify...I do not believe that IGF-1 in the altered form presently being used by bodybuilders is capable…

As explained by bio-regent personnel at Gropep, once they altered IGF-1, it no longer possessed the same protein chain, and consequently muscle building properties of that of unaltered IGF-1 (rIGF-1 alternative nomenclature IGF-1 RH).

The available animal studies used rIGF-1 not the altered IGF-LR3. Gropep created the altered version LR3 for convenient lab use only. There will never be a study examining the direct effect of this altered version…and most certainly not in humans.

So for that we must rely on the cumulative reports from serious/ experienced trainers who have observed & experimented with the use of the altered version on their trainees. I have even spoken to one such trainer who used control subjects & relied on before and after hydrostatic body fat testing to conclude that there was no observable muscle mass gain from the use of IGF-1 LR3. By and large the trainers I have had communication w/ all seem to have the same low opinion of IGF-1 LR3 as a direct agent for muscle growth let alone hyperplasia.

Is any of this dispositive…NO!

It has now been several years that IGF-1 (altered version) has been used by the bodybuilding community…go ask those users who are capable of distinguishing what drug had what effect on their body composition what their thoughts are on this compound. Once you avoid those people & those board owners who had/have a tied interest (which may be as small as free product) to those that sell/sold the altered version you might be surprised…

…then again you might draw your own differing conclusion.

No big deal I still respect each of you and will consider your point of view in constantly reexaming my own…most of you are indeed more knowledgeable than I. In no way do I feel that what I have to say is anything more than just a guy posting his often inferior opinion.

I like to learn…and in fact over the years have been the beneficiary of Grunt’s research & posts across various boards. In fact I am interested in his take on IGF-II & its potential use in the bodybuilding community…because I have come to respect his mind.

Oh yes…and by-the-way…as TheSinner once pointed out to me I can be a d1ck sometimes…but it is too late for me to change my ways I’m afraid.

 

[sureshot!]

Thanks for the clarification man. Your elusive description method is soothing. :tup:

 

[pumbertot]

I tend to agree with most of what you say datBtrue and I also feel that regular IGF-1 injected into sites of lagging muscles frequently(a few shots/day) will have more chance of causing hyperplasia than LR3 though im not 100% convinced LR3 does not posses any ability to do so too.

 

[blackheart]

For the record, I'm not questioning whether such a thing as peptides exist, of this we are quite certain, and at least some of it circulating in the underground must be the genuine article.

I only point out that there is good reason to be dubious about some of those that claim to be distributing them, the product quality, its condition, and authenticity. This is something which I think we can all agree on.

I don't frequent this board enough to engage to provide a particularly interesting disagreement over it, nonetheless it is my opinion that there's a lot of ineffectual and even fraudulent product out there.