BPC-157 and Knee-Hab - First Timer Advice Welcome

specmike

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I finally pulled the trigger today on some BPC-157 to aid with my rehab for my knee injury. Based on everything I have read here and on other boards, that is by far the best option for what I need to fix THIS

Any first timer advice is appreciated. This is my first time pinning anything. I'll report my findings for any that may be interested as I see a lot of injury related posts here.

I still have not decided what time of day to inject. My daily gym and rehab is usually in the afternoon around 5pm. I'm wondering if this will be best used at bedtime, upon waking, pre-workout, post workout, etc. I'm planning to go intramuscular at the injury site once per day with 250mcg for 4 weeks. I'll be prepared to modify the dosage as needed.

I ordered the proper bs water, 1cc, 29g slin pins, and alcohol swabs. I did not order the BPC-157 from a board sponsor so I'll not share the name here publicly. Or, has that rule changed?

Knee specific rehab right now is weighted leg extensions with 5 - 15lbs at 30 degrees max flexion, leg curls, full range resistaband extensions, and light cycling per my doc for the next 4 weeks.

Thanks in advance for any advice or input.
 
specmike

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Well, my equipment finally arrived and I made my first injections last night. I did make a mistake afterwards. I left my reconstituted BPC-157 sitting out for about 10 hours, unrefrigerated. The room was about 62f-65f so hopefully there was no significant degradation.

I started with a total of 300mcg, split into 3 x 100mcg injections. I injected where the 3 X are in the right side picture. The red line is an approximation of where my patella broke in half.

The top spot over the quad tendon was a subQ injection. On the lower in injections, I went in at 90 degrees to the skin and went the full depth of a 1/2" pin to get down into the joint and also hopefully closer to the cartilage. My plan is to subtly move my injections points in relation to how my pain changes in response to the injections.

I did not have any discomfort after the injections and anaphylactic reactions. I know that the BPC-157 has no specific analgesic or pain killing qualities but within 2 hours I felt minor pain relief. On Tuesday, OCT 28 I did a 10+ mile bicycle ride and my knee was very sore prior to the injection. When I woke up this morning, I noticed a marked reduction in the pain.

The most painful part of my knee is circled in red on the left side of the picture. I plan to focus on that area in addition to subQ injections over the quad tendon and as close as possible to break in the bone.

The only thing I am still wrestling with is what time of day to use the BPC-157. During the day so I will be mobile and have good blood flow? Or, at night while I'm sleeping so it can be motionless?

Knee Pin 1.jpg
 
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Subb'd.

So far I haven't read anything anywhere about optimal time of day. I'd say whenever it is most convenient for you. It's very potent and will work regardless of laying still or moving around.
 
specmike

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Well, my equipment finally arrived and I made my first injections last night. I did make a mistake afterwards. I left my reconstituted BPC-157 sitting out for about 10 hours, unrefrigerated. The room was about 62f-65f so hopefully there was no significant degradation.
Anyone with experience think I did any damage? I have another bottle on the way anyway but I'm curious.
 
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should be fine as long as it wasn't sitting in the sun
 
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I finally pulled the trigger today on some BPC-157 to aid with my rehab for my knee injury. Based on everything I have read here and on other boards, that is by far the best option for what I need to fix THIS

Any first timer advice is appreciated. This is my first time pinning anything. I'll report my findings for any that may be interested as I see a lot of injury related posts here.

I still have not decided what time of day to inject. My daily gym and rehab is usually in the afternoon around 5pm. I'm wondering if this will be best used at bedtime, upon waking, pre-workout, post workout, etc. I'm planning to go intramuscular at the injury site once per day with 250mcg for 4 weeks. I'll be prepared to modify the dosage as needed.

I ordered the proper bs water, 1cc, 29g slin pins, and alcohol swabs. I did not order the BPC-157 from a board sponsor so I'll not share the name here publicly. Or, has that rule changed?

Knee specific rehab right now is weighted leg extensions with 5 - 15lbs at 30 degrees max flexion, leg curls, full range resistaband extensions, and light cycling per my doc for the next 4 weeks.

Thanks in advance for any advice or input.
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specmike

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DatBtrue posted this study summary in my thread at his forum. It's very interesting. Today is my third morning after starting my run. My pain level is lessening a bit each day. It appears that it's very likely that BPC-157 has some analgesic and pain relieving properties in addition to the other healing properties. I brought this up and he found an excellent reply.

Yes it most certainly does.

Here's the discussion section from The Effect Of Pentadecapeptide Bpc 157 On Inflammatory, Non-Inflammatory, Direct And Indirect Pain And Capsaicin Neurotoxicity, P. Sikiri, Inflammopharmacology 1993, Volume 2, Issue 2, Pp 121-127

Note: Nociception (also nocioception or nociperception) is the encoding and processing of harmful stimuli in the nervous system, and, therefore, the ability of a body to sense potential harm.

DISCUSSION

The involvement of BPC in nociception as shown by these results, seems to be in line with the behaviour of a number of peptides known to be present in the different pathways subserving pain [17,18]. The possible analgesic mechanism of the peptide appears to be complex.

This seems to be supported by the evidence that BPC 157 reduced the nociceptive response in various assays, involving apparently different pathways, including both indirect as well as direct pain stimulation [6-17], such as that seen with acetic acid (liberation of one or more substances exciting nociceptors) and magnesium sulphate (direct stimulation of peritoneal nociceptors) [8-11]. The acetic acid assay, as a model of inflammatory, PG-dependent pain, has been connected both with acute inflammation of the peritoneal area [8] and with increased levels of PGE~. PGF~ [19,20] as well as malondialdehyde (MDA), a metabolite formed during PG~synthe~xs from endoperoxides in peritoneal fluid [9,10]. While the magnesium sulphate assay is considered to be a model of non-inflammatory and non-prostaglandin-dependent pain, since there are no changes in either PG release in the peritoneum, or in MDA concentration in the peritoneal fluid [9,10]. Consistent with those differences, the NSAIDs, serotonin and histamine-receptor-blocking drugs and morphine (known to be effective in acetic acid assay) are active only in much higher dosages, if at all, in the magnesium sulphate assay [9,10]. Interestingly, BPC 157 seems to be more effective in the magnesium sulphate than in the acetic acid assay. Hence, besides a modulation of the pain-producing effect of PGs and other substances, BPC 157 also appears to have an immediate (since it is effective when applied simultaneously with magnesium sulphate) direct effect on peritoneal pain endings, which is likely to be unrelated to PGs [8-111.

Consequently, it seems that the BPC 157 analgesic effect could be different from that of NSAIDs or morphine. This seems to be supported by the evidence that BPC 157 is more active than aspirin in, e.g. the tail pinching test. Likewise, in contrast to morphine, BPC 157 was not effective in the hot-plate test on naive mice or rats. Finally, the influence of BPC 157 on pain modulation, in line with its strong anti-inflammatory effect, should be viewed in conjunction with its proposed organoprotective effects [1-4], particularly a prominent gastrointestinal protection and a beneficial effect in wound healing and haemorrhagic shock (unlike the deleterious effect of NSAIDs or endogenous opioides [4,21-23].

The peptide's specific activity in nociception seems to be supported by its influence on allodynia in animals treated with a neurotoxic dose of capsaicin [17] and later subjected to the hot-plate test. Since, in this assay, BPC 157 had no influence on the normal pain reaction in naive animals, and, when given as a single pretreatment injection, it protected capsaicin-treated animals from neurotoxicity, a close interaction with eapsaicin seems likely. Furthermore, the development of capsaicin neurotoxicity was prevented by daily injection of BPC 157 while it had no influence after capsaicin degeneration had been established. Thus, it is possible that BPC 157 activity is related to the integrity of capsaicin-sensitive somatosensory neurons and their protection. Therefore, primary afferent neurons having small-diameter somata and unmyelinated (C-) or thinly myelinated (A/~-) fibres (as a main target of the sensory neuron-selective effects of capsaicin), and intracellular accumulation of calcium and NaC1, either slowly reversible or irreversible (with or without degeneration of neuronal soma), associated with quick defunctionalization and delayed depletion of cellular constituents and peptide transmitters (as final events implicated in the mechanism of the capsaicin neurotoxicity) [17], could be involved in BPC's action in nociception.

Those qualities, together with efficacy after oral application and no or negligible toxicity (100 mg/kg had no untoward effect in an acute toxicology study [4]), make BPC 157 an interesting tool for further research.
 
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I've definitely noticed a big reduction in pain from day 1 of use.
 
specmike

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Several people and articles have led me to believe that the "wet" effects of deca would be good with my knee in its current condition. So, I'm adding 40mg of Trestobol in for 4-6 weeks. Daily split is 10mg am, 20mg PW, 10mg late PM.
 
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Just a heads up. Trestobol aka Trestolone is nothing like deca, very very different. It's not going to help your knee.
 
specmike

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Just a heads up. Trestobol aka Trestolone is nothing like deca, very very different. It's not going to help your knee.
I am not expecting a direct effect on the knee itself. But, I like the idea of a light cycle while I'm rehabbing. My workouts are great after 2.5 months out of the gym.

My understanding was that Trestobol is a very "wet" compound. So, if I am going to run anything, I figured a wet compound would be best. A dry compound like EPI would dry my joints out which would be a very bad idea right now.
 
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Trestobol converts to methyl estrogen and will cause some bloat yes, but it will not give you the same effects that deca would for joints. It will not increase synovial fluid like deca does. I personally wouldn't run any anabolic while trying to repair an injury. It goes against all logic. You're going to increase strength a ton on trest, it's super potent. Trestobol is one of the strongest orals out there right now. If you want an oral that will help you, anavar is basically your only option. Everything else is just dangerous. Just giving you my 2 cents worth from experience and knowledge on the subject. I wouldn't do it at all. BPC-157 is supposed to work very well even within a couple weeks. I know that you're likely feeling great with the pain reduction from the BPC, but why not wait a bit? You have plenty of time ahead of you, but only 1 knee (per leg)...
 
specmike

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I don't have a source for Anavar and would prefer to avoid the legal issues. I literally just got the Trestobol yesterday so I'll do some more reading and probably shelve it until after JAN 1.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I'm impatient to get the rest of my body back into prime shape ASAP while babying this knee. It's a delicate balance.
 
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Good choice! I wouldn't want to risk it because of the huge increases in strength, and the BPC-157 masking pain at the moment.
 
specmike

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How's the knee feeling?
It's really good all things considered. I worked it very hard last week and the soreness was not nearly as bad as I anticipated it being. I have to believe that the BPC-157 is helping. I obviously have nothing to compare this to but it just "feels" like it's progressing at a great rate.
 
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Duplicate Post. Admin please remove.
 
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It's really good all things considered. I worked it very hard last week and the soreness was not nearly as bad as I anticipated it being. I have to believe that the BPC-157 is helping. I obviously have nothing to compare this to but it just "feels" like it's progressing at a great rate.
Great to hear. I feel the same way about my shoulder.
 
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Any updates?

I stopped using BPC-157 after two weeks, and 1 week later my shoulder pain has come back. Going to start it again for 4 weeks, with 1 week off and then another 4 weeks afterwards.
 
specmike

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It's hard to tell. I'm pushing hard but smart in therapy so it's constantly sore. But like I said, I have nothing to compare with so I have no idea what it would be like without it.

Have you heard if BPC-157 should be cycled? I'm beginning week 3.
 
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I've read that it should be used for up to 4 weeks, with a week off before starting again. I haven't found any reasoning for this though.
 
specmike

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I've read that it should be used for up to 4 weeks, with a week off before starting again. I haven't found any reasoning for this though.
I will post this question over at Datbtrue.
 
specmike

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Still no input on cycling other than what I originally read. 4 weeks on, 2 weeks off.

I finished off 1 batch of BPC-157 and had a odd amount in the vial, about 6cc which would be 600mcg. I have been injecting typically to 2 spots per day, 150mcg to each spot. Pain levels have been tolerable and rehab is going well. But, the pain has been very consistent and higher than I'd like.

So, I decided to use up the last 600mcg in that vial which was from a non board sponsor site that resembles a large. light colored man eating shark. I hit my 2 spots that were the most sore. The next day I had the best "oh my god" feeling after using 300mcg on each spot. That amount seemed to truly have some great pain relief and gave me a wonderful feeling for a couple of days. It's impossible to measure what this stuff is doing for my healing but, my instinct is that it is very good. My injury date was AUG 21 and I'm doing pretty damn good considering.

So, using that brand of BPC-157, the sweet spot dosage is likely 300mcg+ at any given injection spot. I decided to try the product from the primary board recommended supplier over at Datbtrue. It's supposed to the bomb for purity so I'll evaluate dosages with it.
 
specmike

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Another observation, I seem to be doing better with the soreness and general feeling if I inject earlier in the day and move around a good bit afterwards. I have had a few days where I injected just before bed and the soreness was more pronounced the next day. In fact, I may try injecting just before the gym my final week on.
 
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I've also been using those shark peps... 300mcg is what I've been using, but once per day, and I definitely notice pain decrease afterwards. But now I'm wondering about what amounts to use if I want to shoot bilaterally into each shoulder, since I'm fairly certain some does go systemic.
 
specmike

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I have tried 2 different suppliers of the BPC-157 and I can't tell any difference. With either supplier I think my most effective dose is going to be in excess of 300mcg. I have not decided if I will dose 1 large dose per day or 2 medium sized ones.

Also, I have let myself run out of BPC-157 since I've started treating my wife's knee. I have gone 2 days without and I can say unequivocally that the BPC-157 has a pronounced effect on my day to day pain and soreness levels. I can't say if that exactly constitutes healing per se but it seems like it should be a good sign. I did go to the doctor last Friday and my x-rays looked great.
 
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Thanks for the update. I'm due to start treatment again soon. I like the idea of doing morning and evening shots of 300mcg, but I have yet to read about any issues with high-dosing. I'm wondering if there are any sides whatsoever with this. I haven't seen any documented.
 
specmike

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In one of the study summaries on Datbtrue, the researchers stated they could not find a toxic or overdose point with this peptide, even with megadosing. Which is comforting.
 
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Update December 9.

Back on DEC 1, I was in a pretty violent car wreck and my overall body soreness has been NOTHING like I expected based on the impact I took. I have taken 0 pain pills and 0 NSAIDs and I can only attribute the lack of soreness and pain to the BPC-157. This leads me to believe that there is indeed some systemic benefit.

My impression is that BPC-157 does act systemically. But, most articles I read have stated for best results to inject a closely to the injured area as possible for best results.
 
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Oh man I'm sorry to hear. I hope everyone in the accident is ok!
 

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