GH Information Here!
- 02-23-2004, 01:57 PM
- 6'1" 221 lbs.
- Join Date
- Nov 2002
- Rep Power
GH Information Here!
I did not write this. This was copied long ago from another site.
Rating: (1 being the lowest, 5 being the highest)
Hypoglycemia- due to lowered insulin levels.
Aromeglia- (abnormal bone growth) GH does not cause it, but if you are predisposed to it, it will speed it up.
GH gut- if predisposed and taking large doses of GH
Carpel Tunnel Syndrome
Soreness in Joints
Benefits of GH:
New Muscle Cells
Smoothing and improving the skin
Leanness, it is a potent fat burner
Joint and ligament strengthening
Where to Inject, How, and How to Make:
You can site inject anywhere you can reach the subcutaneous layer. Pinch the flesh and pull back, then insert the needle in the "pocket" underneath. Doesn't absorb quick enough if you inject into the adipose tissue. Do not inject intra-muscular, though it can be done, it is not recommended. GH is a site injection, where it is shot is where it will burn the most noticeable fat. Most people do it in the stomach since that is a typical sub q shot with most of the fat being in that area. GH should be kept in a fridge; freezing will destroy the GH. On your kit it probably says to use the kit in 18-24 hours, remember these are for AIDS patients, not bodybuilders or athletes. Mixing the GH can either be done with sterile water or bacteriostic water. The kit with water will be fine for 3 days in the fridge, even with the sterile water, but you should not take this chance, rather you should use bacteriostic water and play it safe. This will keep it fine for a couple of weeks. When mixing the GH, let the water slide down the side as to not pulverize the GH wafer. Do not spray it directly against the wafer with any force. Before reconstitution and even after GH is fragile!!! Also once the water is injected into the bottle gently swirl the vial to reconstitute, do not shake or swirl violently!!!!
1 ml = 1 cc -/+
100 units per 1 cc
6 mg = 18iu
1 ml = 18iu
.50 ml = 9iu
.25 ml = 4.5iu
Some people choose to only do it in cc?s but here is how you can do it in units on a slin dart
5.5 = 1iu, so 2iu = 11 on a slin dart
Differences Between Kits:
The main difference between kits is how many iu?s they make when reconstituted. For example, Serostim re-constitutes to make 126iu, while a Saizen kit.... also made by Serono.... makes up 15iu. Another of their kits makes 54iu. It better be way cheaper than a Serostim kit! Humatrope is fine, but costs too much. The other main concern would be fakes; Lilly is the most often faked one. Some older GH kits do not have holograms on them and are legit, but they are usually only less than 100 dollars than new GH kits with holograms, and I would rather be assured of the hologram and legitimacy of the kit. Best buy currently is Serostim 126 iu kits. These are made for people with wasting diseases like AIDs. Many of these patients got infected because they are IV drug addicts..........they sell the Serostim on the street for drug money.
4 to 6 iu ed is sufficient. Most people take it 5 days on 2 days off at their designated dosage. There is no reason or evidence why you cannot stay on for various lengths of time; there is no need to go 5 on 2 off other than cost. Considering that our natural production is only .5 to 1.5iu a day, this is still a huge bump for the body. Research has shown that the body's natural defense systems render mega doses of GH ineffective, anyway. GH does not cause gains in mass...it allows you to put on a great deal of lean mass in combination with proper steroid and insulin use. The user before taking must know this. One or two kits are not enough, you need at least 3 to make you happy, GH takes a while to make its effects, but remember they are long lasting, what you see is what you keep. It takes 6 to 8 weeks to notice a dramatic change in body comp using GH on an ED or 5/2 split. Lighter doses for long periods of time are better than large doses for short cycles. Like any other drug, the more you take the more the benefits, but likewise also more risks. 4-6 iu is a standard dose but many people take more, the most repulsing side effects happen at or beyond 12 iu a day but like anything else it depends on your predisposition for it.
How to Stack:
GH is best taken in conjunction with insulin, anabolic steroids, and t3. Insulin is extremely effective with GH, as anyone here who has tried it will testify. This is because GH injections cause a down regulation of insulin sensitivity in the body.
GH alone causes little growth of lean mass, however, when combined with insulin and steroids (and IGF-1 if you can find it), the results can be down right remarkable...esp. in the older bodybuilder. Start light with the humulin...5iu...and work up 1 iu a day till you get use to it. 7 to 10iu in the AM and 7 to 10 iu in the late afternoon, with split doses of GH is your best bet. When splitting GH/insulin doses, I use mid-morning and late afternoon after lifting.... both flat times in our natural GH production. The insulin overcomes the insulin-resistance caused by exogenous GH supplementation. If you are scared to take insulin thought, then Gh with Test and Glucophage is good. GH is good for cutting if used alone. Glucophage allows for improved glucose and amino acid absorption by the muscle tissue and does it safely. This is what you want. The half-life of GH is only 2 hours so spread it out. Avoid bedtime injections since we produce the bulk of our own GH in the first two hours of sleep. Since exogenous GH suppresses this, you should not take it before bed. For best results, use a 17aa oral during the cycle to stimulate the release of natural insulin growth factors. I would run the test throughout. GH/insulin/test is the proven synergistic combination.
It is also wise to preload with testosterone before starting GH if you are going to do it. You should preload with the amount of time it takes for that testosterone to kick in, since most of us take longer acting esters for testosterone you should usually start taking the test 2 weeks before GH use. Likewise, you can accommodate it to fit your needs; the key is for the test to be kicking in the same time you are starting to run your GH. You can cycle you steroids however you want to depending on your goals, if you are going for a more massive look than you would run insulin for most of the cycle and use high androgens, but if you are looking for additional leanness at the end of a cycle you should stop the androgens and run a higher dose of GH or run less androgens. T3 is also another substance that should be used during GH cycling since GH lowers thyroid hormones. T3 should be used for shorter periods though, because it can permanently alter the endocrine system. The magic of GH for men is the ability to gain mass without fat or bloating when stacked properly with insulin, and steroids. GH also makes for amazing improvements in skin...smoothes wrinkles, burns stubborn spots of adipose tissue, gives that paper-thin contest look...and also gives one a real mood lift, a feeling of well being.
Major Difference Between GH and Steroids:
Steroids can increase the size of your muscle cells, but cannot I repeat CAN NOT increase the number of muscle cells in your body, which to start with is governed by your genetics. However Growth hormone CAN increase the number of muscle cells in your body, which goes beyond genetics.
Half-Life of GH:
Exogenous (injected) GH has a "half-life" of approximately 2 hours . . . a 4-hour period of activity during which there is a suppression of naturally produced GH.
GH Naturally Produced:
We release the most of our naturally produced GH during the first two hours of deep sleep...you may take a little time to adjust.... your body thinks you should be in bed when that big influx hits. It is good to take a nap, that?s when you grow anyway. It always helps to take naps after workouts and injections everyday.
GH Causing Acromeglia:
Acromeglia is a disease...you either have it or you don't. Supplementing GH will not cause it. Persons suffering from acromeglia, like Andre the Giant, lack the natural defense mechanisms of the body to regulate the production and effects of GH secretion in he pituitary. It is well established in the medical literature that exogenous GH will not cause the disease.... of course it would worsen the condition in those who had it.
GH Gut: Myth or Reality?:
Some researchers claim that any gains in weight experienced by subjects using GH alone was due to growth of internal organs and connective tissue, which could cause some problems. Most studies do not agree with this theory and consider "GH gut" to be a myth. Some people are allergic to synthetic test, this is something you have to find out for yourself. Some people also feel intestinal discomfort from time to time, if so take it down to one item at a time to see what is causing you discomfort; creatine, glutamine, protein products, orals, and dirty gear have all been known to cause this, so find the problem early.
GH and IGF-1:
Perhaps the most relevant effect of IGF-1 is the ability of IGF-1 to increase protein synthesis by increasing cellular mRNA formation (mRNA makes protein) as well as increasing uptake of amino acids. This effect on protein synthesis can lead to increased lean mass. The research indicates that this effect is dependent on GH presence as well. So IGF-1 alone does not promote such effects. Nor does GH. It appears the combination of the two most consistently lead to increased protein synthesis.For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
- 05-17-2004, 02:13 PM
how much of a difference would taking IGF-1 without stacking GH would there be, would the IGF-1 be almost ineffective?
and does the LR3 version make any diffierence as to whether or not stacking GH is beneficial?
- 05-17-2004, 02:26 PM
- 6'1" 221 lbs.
- Join Date
- Nov 2002
- Rep Power
IGF-1 alone would be more effective for growth but GH would be more effective for fat loss. Both together would make a great combo but overall growth would not change much since GH's growth potential is mediated through IGF-1 and your already supplying that in much larger numbers. Overal fat loss and body composition would be great but you would want to start your GH much earlier and start the IGF-1 6-10 weeks into your GH cycle.For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
07-12-2004, 09:21 PM
Bobo or others could you add more detail on the use of glucophage while on GH? I am not comfortable using slin but may consider using the oral. What are the benefits of using the glucophage with GH vs the GH alone? I am looking for fat burning and the addition of some lean mass. Will probably be using with var and some r3igf1 as well. Something like
weeks 1-4 40mg var ed , 40mcg r3igf1 ed, 2.5 GH ed
weeks 5 - 8 40mg var ed, 2.5 GH ed
9 -10 40mg var ed, 2.5 iu GH ed
11 - 14 standard Nolva dosing , R3Igf1 40 mcg ed
will run the GH for another couple months after this at least
looking for lean mass gain
Woud you recommend the addition of glucophage and / or t3 to this at all
03-16-2005, 09:09 PM
What is the source of real GH used issued by doctors for certain things. I've heard cadavers, is that true?
06-06-2005, 05:00 PM
Help mixing GH
I need help in mixing GH.
I have a 8 mg vile of gh how much bacteriostic water should I add to it?
Originally Posted by Bobo
08-30-2005, 06:22 PM
Hey, I am new to supplements and stacking. I have chosen to go forth with Humagro, HGH. I am not going to inject, however I will be taking them(tablets) oral, under the tounge. I was wondering what I could stack it with, if it is the same for the injections or not. Should I take anti-estrogen products? I am just looking for the most effective stack possible that will help me achieve my physical goals. Please reply. Thanks.
10-12-2005, 03:28 PM
Are there any websites that properly demostrate how to inject IGF-1 and GH?
12-15-2005, 06:46 PM
just do a google search and type in "subcutaneous injection technique" or something like that. It's very easy and painless. Just pinch back some fat from your stomach (if you're so lean that you cant, you dont need GH lol) and inject (with aspirating just to be careful). IGF can be injected IM (which i do), GH must be done subQ.
12-26-2005, 09:28 AM
I would like to see Bobo's thoughts on this as well. I've read ALR's thoughts in Building the Perfect Beast, but want more opinions of this.Originally Posted by jcam222
12-26-2005, 09:29 AM
Not since the 1980's.Originally Posted by biggjohn
Now it is synthesized in a lab.
12-26-2005, 09:30 AM
Um, you mix however much bact water you want. As long as you can do the math to figure out how many iu per liquid volume. You have an 8MG vial? Or 8iu?Originally Posted by Redbone
12-26-2005, 09:31 AM
Trash them and buy some injected GH. The oral stuff is ineffective.Originally Posted by Pipes
03-07-2007, 09:42 PM
Sorry for this basic question but I still dont understand why GH takes months to kick in. If fat cells have GH receptors and the half life of GH is just hours, why in the world would it take so long to start working?
03-14-2007, 09:46 PM
any thoughts on a HGH 4m cycle with some Winny throw in there?
04-03-2007, 05:12 PM
04-04-2007, 11:50 PM
could someone tell me what a 17aa is? benefits / sides?
04-12-2007, 09:36 PM
I am dissapointed; this is the best bodybuilding forum on the net and no one wants to answer eve such a basic question about one of the staple bodybuilding compounds?
04-12-2007, 10:18 PM
IGF-1 where does one find it? or is that a no no to ask?
10-20-2007, 12:46 AM
i ask understand :you suggest use GH,IGF-1,PRO-hormones together at the same time ? (twice a day)
10-20-2007, 07:38 AM
12-25-2007, 12:45 AM
Can some one tell me the shelf life of un mixed/un opened sealed package of 7 vials of serono Serostim 6mg. The expiration date on the box is 04/02 but I was wondering if it was still potent enough to use since still sealed in box? Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
12-28-2007, 09:42 AM
t4 better with GH than t3
The most current research shows t4 is a MUCH better combination with HGH than T3....can anyone elaborate on this?
01-01-2008, 11:22 PM
03-24-2008, 06:29 AM
Hypoglycemia- due to lowered insulin levels.
this statement makes no sense. lowered insulin levels would lead to hyperglycemia as is true with diabetics if they dont take their insulin or antihyperglycemics.
03-24-2008, 06:32 AM
04-14-2008, 08:28 AM
04-14-2008, 08:55 AM
240-320IUs which will cost you around $480 upwards.
again this is very rough and you should seek out some sources to see what you can obtain.
10-15-2008, 12:10 PM
SQ vs IM GH administration: Study
Just some food for thought here regaring IM vs. SQ GH injections:
Pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of GH: dependence on route and dosage of administration
Full Text Source: Pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of GH: dependence on route and dosage of administration -- Keller et al. 156 (6): 647 -- European Journal of Endocrinology
European Journal of Endocrinology, Vol 156, Issue 6, 647-653
Copyright © 2007 by European Society of Endocrinology
Objective: Pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic data after recombinant human GH (rhGH) administration in adults are scarce, but necessary to optimize replacement therapy and to detect doping. We examined pharmacokinetics, pharmacodynamics, and 20 kDa GH after injection of rhGH at different doses and routes of administration.
Design: Open-label crossover study with single boluses of rhGH.
Methods: Healthy trained subjects (10 males, 10 females) received bolus injections of rhGH on three occasions: 0.033 mg/kg s.c., 0.083 mg/kg s.c., and 0.033 mg/kg i.m. Concentrations of 22 and 20 kDa GH, IGF-I, and IGF-binding proteins (IGFBP)-3 were measured repeatedly before and up to 36 h after injection.
Results: Serum GH maximal concentration (Cmax) and area under the time-concentration curve (AUC) were higher after i.m. than s.c. administration of 0.033 mg/kg (Cmax 35.5 and 12.0 µ g/l; AUC 196.2 and 123.8). Cmax and AUC were higher in males than in females (P < 0.01) and pharmacodynamic changes were more pronounced. IGFBP-3 concentrations showed no dose dependency. In response to rhGH administration, 20 kDa GH decreased in females and remained suppressed for 14–18 h (low dose) and 30 h (high dose). In males, 20 kDa GH was undetectable at baseline and throughout the study.
Conclusions: After rhGH administration, pharmacokinetic parameters are mainly influenced by route of administration, whereas pharmacodynamic variables and 20 kDa GH concentrations are determined mainly by gender. These differences need to be considered for therapeutic use and for detection of rhGH doping.
The present data demonstrate that gender, dose and route of administration specifically alter bioavailability of and response to exogenous rhGH in healthy young adults. Pharmacokinetic variables were mainly influenced by the route of administration, whereas pharmacodynamic responses were primarily determined by sex. Furthermore, suppression of the 20 kDa GH isoform after injection of rhGH could be demonstrated only in women; 20 kDa GH levels in males were already low at baseline.
We assessed trained, but not elite level, subjects and highly trained individuals may respond differently to rhGH administration. With no exogenous rhGH, reduced serum IGF-I and IGFBP-3 concentrations have been reported during intense training (18, 19). The dose of rhGH used in this study was supraphysiological, because it can be assumed that illegal use by athletes will be at high doses (20). Physiological rhGH replacement in GH-deficient adults requires approximately one-third to one-fifth of the dose used in this study (21). Despite the high rhGH doses, we observed few of the side effects previously described in adults with GH deficiency (22, 23). However, a high frequency of diarrhea was seen, particularly after administration of the high rhGH dose. We found no explanation in regard to diet or gastrointestinal infections, and speculate that fluid regulation disturbances induced by the high dose could have caused the diarrhea (24).
Cmax and AUC were higher after i.m. than s.c. injection of the identical dose, in accordance with previous reports (25) indicating that serum GH after i.m. injection shows a higher amplitude and shorter duration compared with s.c. injection. Significant differences between males and females were found for GH Cmax and AUC after i.m., but not s.c. injection. Although one could have expected a higher t1/2z after s.c. administration in women, due to the higher s.c. fat (26), t1/2z was not affected by gender, perhaps because the women in the study were trained and lean.
The increase in IGF-I was positively correlated to baseline concentration, and was not affected by route of administration. Compared to IGFBP-3, the increase in serum IGF-I was faster and more pronounced, consistent with previous publications indicating that the ratio of IGF-I/IGFBP-3 increases immediately after rhGH injection (27). The increase in IGFBP-3 was delayed, not clearly dose dependent and did not return to baseline during the observation period, confirming that IGF-I is a more sensitive marker of GH action in trained adults than IGFBP-3.
The increase in IGF-I, but not the increase in IGFBP-3, shows a marked sexual dimorphism. Integrated IGF-I release after rhGH injection was significantly higher in males than females, whereas Tmax and Cmax did not differ between sexes. IGF-I and IGFBP3 response is higher in males at low dose. However, it might be the case that the high dose of rhGH being a stronger stimulus also evokes a higher response in females. The difference between sexes is of course most likely due to the influence of estrogens, as all females were on oral contraceptives. No clear difference was seen in IGF-I response but the study was not specifically designed to investigate the impact of estrogens. It has been proposed that use of oral estrogens interferes with hepatic IGF-I production, but women not using estrogen supplementation also exhibit a lower IGF-I response than males (1). Studies in animals indicate that complex mechanisms, including modification of hepatic GH receptor expression, lead to the sexual dimorphism in the somatotropic axis (28). In contrast to serum GH concentrations, IGF-I and IGFBP-3 concentrations did not return to pre-treatment levels within the observation period, supporting the idea of use of these markers to detect doping with rhGH (13, 27, 29).
The existing studies on the relationship between 22 kDa and 20 kDa isoforms suggest that the secretion is a part of constant percentage of total GH. Therefore, the lower 20 kDa level and the long-term suppression in males seem to be a consequence of the lower total GH concentration. The 20 kDa GH isoform was also suppressed in females after administration of rhGH, consistent with a negative feedback of exogenous rhGH on pituitary GH secretion; the duration of suppression was dose dependent and re-occurrence of 20 kDa in the circulation was seen 26–28 h after low-dose rhGH and 34 h after high dose rhGH. The prolonged changes provide further evidence that the GH isoform pattern can be used to detect the administration of rhGH in females. With the assay method used in this study, 20 kDa GH levels in males were almost undetectable, making it impossible to demonstrate further suppression. Thus, more sensitive assays to quantify the amount of 20 kDa GH are necessary.
In summary, our data show that in healthy trained adults, responsiveness to rhGH administration is regulated by a variety of factors. Pharmacokinetic parameters are mainly influenced by the route of administration, with higher GH Cmax and AUC after i.m. injection, while pharmacodynamic parameters are mainly determined by gender. These differences need to be considered when decisions are made regarding therapeutic dosing with rhGH. Changes in the molecular isoforms in circulation after injection of rhGH show that in females, measurement of 20 kDa GH could be a useful parameter to detect rhGH doping in athletes.
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12-07-2008, 04:39 PM
should a 18 or 19 year old consider growth hormones and IGF instead of steroids?
12-15-2008, 09:03 PM
12-15-2008, 10:32 PM
12-15-2008, 11:34 PM
I do not recomend use but i agree to a point on the above. I think GH is more effective than IGF-1 no matter who you are. its all about dose, food and routine. I think IGF is good for long long runs. I think GH would "show" sooner. Now i say i think because my testing for those 2 wont begin until summer. I hope to report back good infor though.
04-06-2009, 08:21 PM
Thanks for the info, 2 question's, i have just got the Serono, Saizen Gh, how much is in that bottle when mixed up, also i am using a 100 cc insluin gauge, what is the best dosage for a new guy on gh??
I just cant work out how much i should be taking, ie the whole bottle everyday or part of it??
11-24-2009, 06:16 PM
I am 5'3" 144lbs at about 13 to 14% bf right now. Would taking 2iu per day for 60 days/ standalone do anything? I don't want to use too much with it because of previous issues with gyno. I had surgery and had it removed, but the Dr said he left a little bit of each gland so my nipples wouldn't fall off. Anyway, I have a bottle of Havoc, which is supposed to be very mild. Would that be worth using while on GH? Thanks in advance.
01-04-2010, 02:58 AM
Do i still need to take T3 even if my GH dosage will be 6iu/day along with insulin ?
Does these 6iu of GH still lowers endogenous thyroid hormone in the body ?
Is there any scale on the dosage of GH which requires T3 intake ? Maybe over 8 - 10iu ?
Thanks for any advice.
01-10-2010, 09:55 AM
01-10-2010, 09:57 AM
02-21-2010, 12:02 AM
Yes definitely! You still have high test levels and you aren't finished growing. You can really benefit. I started at 40 and got gains in size, decrease in body fat, more energy, better mood and yes after 2 years people think I've been juicing when they see me. It is slow, but steady.
03-01-2010, 12:36 PM
There are many different online sources that claim to sell HGH, if permitted, can anyone tell me which ones are legit?
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