Oratropin for tendonosis

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    Oratropin for tendonosis


    I just received an ultrasound diagnosis of a shoulder issue which has been bothering me for awhile now, that being tendonosis of the right supraspinatus tendon. I'm both relieved at the fact I'm not faced with surgery and dreading the likely long-term rehabilitation that this could entail, with high doses of ibuprofen and expensive physiotherapy. I've laid off all upper body workouts for a few months, but was waiting to see if I had a tear before going about formulating my rehabilitation regime.

    My question regards to the usage of Oratropin in this type of situation to speed up the healing process. Would Oratropin be of use in my situation? I also have bulk cissus at my disposal, which I will be utilizing at a high dosage level in order to hopefully speed up the healing process.

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    Absolutely is the answer.

    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/ibe-n...ing-thing.html

    HGH & Torn Tendon


    "IGF-1
    Insulin-like growth factor 1, or IGF-1, is a growth factor that is important for tissue healing. It can stimulate an increase in Type I collagen when added to normal fibroblasts.

    One study showed that tenocytes from healthy equine tendon made more Type I collagen relative to Type III collagen when treated with IFG-1 in vitro.[31] The tendon samples had "greater numbers of larger and more metabolically active fibroblasts," and IGF-1 enhanced collagen synthesis in a dose dependant manner. The authors suggest that IGF-1 might help treat horses with tendinosis. A growth factor that helps promote Type I collagen relative to Type III collagen in tendon is certainly worth more study for its potential use in treating tendinosis.

    Several other studies showed that a combination of IGF-1 and platlet-derived growth factor increased the rupture force, stiffness, and breaking energy in rat medial collateral ligaments.[32,33] Also, one study showed that treating injured rat Achilles tendons with IGF-1 reduced the "maximal functional deficit" and the "time to functional recovery."[34] Another study showed that IGF-1 and IGF-II stimulated collagen, proteoglycan, and DNA synthesis in a dose-dependent manner in rabbit flexor tendon in vitro.[35]

    IGF-1 was not one of the growth factors tried in the previously mentioned carpal tunnel syndrome study[1], so it would be interesting to discover its effect on cells from tendinosis patients.

    GDF-5
    Growth and differentiation factor 5, or GDF-5, has been linked to tendon healing in several studies. One study showed that the tensile strength of healing rat tendons increased in a dose-dependent manner when treated with GDF-5.[36] Another study showed that GDF-5 deficiency caused mouse tail tendon to have a 17% increase in the proportion of medium diameter collagen fibrils at the expense of larger diameter fibrils, as well as a 33% increase in irregularly-shaped polymorphic fibrils.[37] These structural differences did not cause major differences in biomechanical properties of the tendon, but did cause the fibers to relax 11% more slowly than controls during time-dependent stress/relaxation tests. More research would be needed to see if GDF-5 could play a role in the treatment of tendinosis.

    CDMP-2
    One research group has investigated the potential for treating tendon injuries with cartilage derived morphogenetic protein, or CDMP-2.[25] This protein is a member of the TGF-beta super family. The researchers treated injured rat Achilles tendons with injections of CDMP-2 and found that the treated tendons were 39% stronger than controls after 8 days. The tendons were also mechanically loaded during healing because the researchers suspected that loading would help the CDMP-2 induce tendon-like tissue instead of bone or cartilage tissue. (The abstract didn't say if the control tendons were also mechanically loaded; if not, the improved healing could be from the loading rather than from the CDMP-2. Presumably, they loaded both the controls and the treated injuries.)

    TGF-beta1
    Transforming growth factor beta1, or TGF-beta1, is a growth factor important in wound and tissue healing. It has been associated with excessive scar tissue formation in some cases. A group of researchers studied the effect of reducing TGF-beta1 because they were looking for a way to reduce the adhesions and scar tissue that commonly form between the site of injured hand flexor tendon and the surrounding tissues.[26,27] These adhesions reduce normal range of motion. Injured rabbit flexor tendons treated with neutralizing antibody to TGF-beta1 had approximately twice as much range of motion as the controls after 8 weeks of healing. This research might not have direct implications for treating tendinosis, but it does show that sometimes lowering growth factors can lead to better healing; more is not always better when it comes to growth factors.

    BMP-12
    Bone morphogenic protein 12, or BMP-12, has been shown to improve tendon healing; researchers found that in vivo gene therapy delivery of BMP-12 caused a two-fold increase in tissue strength and stiffness of healing chicken tendons.[38] See the section below "Gene Therapy." "


    All of the above were taken from:


    Tendinosis.org: The Tendinosis Injury (research into tendinosis, tendinitis, and chronic tendon injuries)


    which has links to these ones which are also worth reading:

    The Physician and Sportsmedicine: Overuse Tendinosis, Not Tendinitis

    http://www.clinicalsportsmedicine.c...dinopathies.htm
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    Yeah - it would work.

    I am curious why Ora over regular IGF.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmh80 View Post
    Yeah - it would work.

    I am curious why Ora over regular IGF.
    It does seem to work better. Here is my guess on why.

    For Tendon repair you want the IGF-1R3 in the blood. Yes there is blood flow in a Tendon. Shooting IM is directly designed to minimize IGF-1R3 in the blood stream and time in the blood. Then there is slow long time release of Oratrophin of 48 hours which means the IGF-1R3 levels are elevated for a longer percentage of the time.
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    By the way I am firm believer that you should run HGH or a HGH booster when trying repair damage along with IGF-1R3. Cissus is also highly recommended.
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    Do you have any recommendations for effective HGH boosters?
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    Quote Originally Posted by max silver View Post
    Do you have any recommendations for effective HGH boosters?
    CJC-1295, Hexarelin, GHRP-6, Hexatrophin-6, ectotrophin-6 and PGH-T. Sorry I don't know which one is best.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werewolf View Post
    It does seem to work better. Here is my guess on why.

    For Tendon repair you want the IGF-1R3 in the blood. Yes there is blood flow in a Tendon. Shooting IM is directly designed to minimize IGF-1R3 in the blood stream and time in the blood. Then there is slow long time release of Oratrophin of 48 hours which means the IGF-1R3 levels are elevated for a longer percentage of the time.
    .

    I'll send Grunt76 over - he'd know better than anyone on Ora vs. regular for joint therapy.
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    The most important fact in your situation is inflammation. There will be NO healing done at all unless inflammation is controlled and eliminated. Icing and harpagophytum procumbens extract are necessary.

    After removing the inflammation, you need to lubricate the place. Celadrin and MSM will help with that.

    Then you need some healing, good and quick. If you weren't in a hurry, then GH would be best. But of course you are. So this is where Oratropin comes in play. It reaches everywhere in the body somewhat independently of blood flow, being cell-mediated. It is the best stuff for the job, especially stacked with high dose cissus.

    You may also want to throw some colloidal gold in there for good measure.

    Lay off all work, even light work, of the injured bodypart for 4 weeks while implementing all these steps, and then break into it SLOWLY. Still have pain? Take another week off then try again. Do *NOT* try to work through the pain, you will only worsen matters.
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    Grunt,

    This is great info because I have currently achilles tendonosis on both legs. I have been trying to rehab and have had some success but not a ton.

    1) What is harpagophytum procumbens? and where do I get some?

    2) So overall is GH or Ora better? I ask because it seemed like these problems began after running IGF if you can believe it? coincidence?

    3) What is Colloidal Gold? What does it do? Where can I get some?

    I will of course "search" all of this on my own also but would love to hear your expert opinions and knowledge. Thanks

    Mr.50

    Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76 View Post
    The most important fact in your situation is inflammation. There will be NO healing done at all unless inflammation is controlled and eliminated. Icing and harpagophytum procumbens extract are necessary.

    After removing the inflammation, you need to lubricate the place. Celadrin and MSM will help with that.

    Then you need some healing, good and quick. If you weren't in a hurry, then GH would be best. But of course you are. So this is where Oratropin comes in play. It reaches everywhere in the body somewhat independently of blood flow, being cell-mediated. It is the best stuff for the job, especially stacked with high dose cissus.

    You may also want to throw some colloidal gold in there for good measure.

    Lay off all work, even light work, of the injured bodypart for 4 weeks while implementing all these steps, and then break into it SLOWLY. Still have pain? Take another week off then try again. Do *NOT* try to work through the pain, you will only worsen matters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.50 View Post
    Grunt,

    This is great info because I have currently achilles tendonosis on both legs. I have been trying to rehab and have had some success but not a ton.

    1) What is harpagophytum procumbens? and where do I get some?

    2) So overall is GH or Ora better? I ask because it seemed like these problems began after running IGF if you can believe it? coincidence?

    3) What is Colloidal Gold? What does it do? Where can I get some?

    I will of course "search" all of this on my own also but would love to hear your expert opinions and knowledge. Thanks

    Mr.50
    1) I get my Harp. Proc. liquid extract at kalyx.com it is a natural anti-inflammatory without any side-effects, very potent, and used for the last 10,000 years very successfully.

    2) I like Oratropin better because it is much faster acting.

    3) Ask Bioman about it. I'll tell you my experience, After taking it for a few days any joint, or inflmmatory pain vanished for a couple months. It is great stuff. It induces a state of calm awareness in most people also.
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    Grunt,
    Re: inflammation.

    Take a look at this Pubmed article
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    When you say to lay off all work does this also include rotator cuff work as well? Also, do you notice a difference between devils claw liquid extract as opposed to the caps or powder? The liquid appears to be much pricier, and if the other versions are effective I'd like to save a little money where possible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmh80 View Post
    Grunt,
    Re: inflammation.

    Take a look at this Pubmed article
    Ah, nice. Just goes to show why Aflutop has such a good reputation. Too bad it is so hard to get.

    Quote Originally Posted by max silver View Post
    When you say to lay off all work does this also include rotator cuff work as well? Also, do you notice a difference between devils claw liquid extract as opposed to the caps or powder? The liquid appears to be much pricier, and if the other versions are effective I'd like to save a little money where possible.
    Yes, even rotator cuff work. Actually the liquid is SO MUCH MORE potent that it is a lot less expensive. An 8oz container, which costs about $40 is good for 250 fairly big daily doses. You should use 2 or even 3 of such doses ED for the first couple weeks but the 8oz should last you half a year all the same. So in reality it is SO MUCH cheaper than the caps/pills, it isn't funny.
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    Grunt,

    Do you think the Devil's Claw Liquid, with Oratropin, and Super Cissus would be a good regimine? If so how long would you run all three for?

    I am really hating it because with this achilles tendonosis all I can do is life and ride the bike. All more intense cardio (like boxing for me) is out. And for a meso/endo, I sure need more intense cardio. Thanks bro.

    Mr.50

    Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76 View Post
    Ah, nice. Just goes to show why Aflutop has such a good reputation. Too bad it is so hard to get.

    Yes, even rotator cuff work. Actually the liquid is SO MUCH MORE potent that it is a lot less expensive. An 8oz container, which costs about $40 is good for 250 fairly big daily doses. You should use 2 or even 3 of such doses ED for the first couple weeks but the 8oz should last you half a year all the same. So in reality it is SO MUCH cheaper than the caps/pills, it isn't funny.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76 View Post
    Yes, even rotator cuff work. Actually the liquid is SO MUCH MORE potent that it is a lot less expensive. An 8oz container, which costs about $40 is good for 250 fairly big daily doses. You should use 2 or even 3 of such doses ED for the first couple weeks but the 8oz should last you half a year all the same. So in reality it is SO MUCH cheaper than the caps/pills, it isn't funny.
    Ah, I couldn't see what the dosage of the liquid products was, I'll likely go that route instead. Thanks for the information as always.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.50 View Post
    Grunt,

    Do you think the Devil's Claw Liquid, with Oratropin, and Super Cissus would be a good regimine? If so how long would you run all three for?

    I am really hating it because with this achilles tendonosis all I can do is life and ride the bike. All more intense cardio (like boxing for me) is out. And for a meso/endo, I sure need more intense cardio. Thanks bro.

    Mr.50
    Yes I think that would be a splendid regimen bro. I would be surprised if the condition is not completely remedied within a month.

    I would run the Devil's claw root extract and cissus together at high doses for 2 weeks, then keep them going, adding the oratropin. After 4 weeks of DCR/Cissus, taper down the dose from 2-3x normal to 1x normal.

    For the liquid, a good daily dose is 1cc so do 3cc ED for the first 14 days, then 2cc for weeks 3 and 4, and then down to 1cc until you finish the bottle. Cissus, well, there are many formulations out there so there is no one standard dosage but I'm sure you can figure it out.
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    thanks bro
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    Grunt, do you happen to know what the concentration of the liquid devils claw extract that you utilize is? I was able to find a capsule version locally so that I can start taking it right away, however there is only 400mg of 3% extract per capsule.
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    Im curious how everyone here thinks the improved Powerfull could be used in a healing application. It is supposed to be a very potent HGH booster.
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    Quote Originally Posted by max silver View Post
    Grunt, do you happen to know what the concentration of the liquid devils claw extract that you utilize is? I was able to find a capsule version locally so that I can start taking it right away, however there is only 400mg of 3% extract per capsule.
    I do not know the concentration of the liquid. However, from personal experience, I would say that 1cc of the liquid seems equal to about 15 of such capsules.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunt76 View Post
    I do not know the concentration of the liquid. However, from personal experience, I would say that 1cc of the liquid seems equal to about 15 of such capsules.


    Damn, that's some strong liquid. Perhaps I'll be ordering some of it sooner than later then.
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    The amazing thing I found about the Oratropin is that not only did it do the job on my arm that I had issues with but also my knees. The cold weather here in Michigan right now would have usually had me limping. But instead I'm still on my treadmill doing 3 miles everyday.

    My wife hates the price tage, but I can't argue with the results, and to not have to hear me complain I think makes up for the price.

    Good Luck
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    I have some reservations about the cost of oratropin as well, as I've already sank a pile of money into various joint supplements without much in the way of results. However, if it works for me as it has for others here on the forum, then it's worth every penny.
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    Just a quick update on my situation, as well as a few questions. I have been taking bulk cissus at 12 caps/day, taking devil's claw extract caps, and icing the bad shoulder twice daily for 2 weeks. I've seen a large improvement in pain levels with the preceding protocol, there's just a minor level of discomfort now.
    I'll likely drop the cissus dose down to 6 caps a day within the coming days, as I'm burning through a pile of powder at this level of dosing.

    I just placed an order for pght through Universal Kits, once it arrives I'll throw it into the mix as well.

    My oratropin kit just arrived today. What is the recommended dosing protocol for tendon healing with this product? I believe I've seen one half dose every two days recommended, however how accurate would the doses be given that I'd be attempting to use only half an oral syringe at a time?
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    I'm really interested in your progress with the oratropin--I'll likely be missing an opportunity to use it, but I'm still incredibly curious as to its effectiveness for you!

    Are you using "00" caps for your cissus? If so, boy 12 caps/day is quite a bit! How are you dosing it, 3 caps 4x/day or 4 caps 3x/day?



    Quote Originally Posted by max silver View Post
    Just a quick update on my situation, as well as a few questions. I have been taking bulk cissus at 12 caps/day, taking devil's claw extract caps, and icing the bad shoulder twice daily for 2 weeks. I've seen a large improvement in pain levels with the preceding protocol, there's just a minor level of discomfort now.
    I'll likely drop the cissus dose down to 6 caps a day within the coming days, as I'm burning through a pile of powder at this level of dosing.

    I just placed an order for pght through Universal Kits, once it arrives I'll throw it into the mix as well.

    My oratropin kit just arrived today. What is the recommended dosing protocol for tendon healing with this product? I believe I've seen one half dose every two days recommended, however how accurate would the doses be given that I'd be attempting to use only half an oral syringe at a time?
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    Quote Originally Posted by max silver View Post
    Just a quick update on my situation, as well as a few questions. I have been taking bulk cissus at 12 caps/day, taking devil's claw extract caps, and icing the bad shoulder twice daily for 2 weeks. I've seen a large improvement in pain levels with the preceding protocol, there's just a minor level of discomfort now.
    I'll likely drop the cissus dose down to 6 caps a day within the coming days, as I'm burning through a pile of powder at this level of dosing.

    I just placed an order for pght through Universal Kits, once it arrives I'll throw it into the mix as well.

    My oratropin kit just arrived today. What is the recommended dosing protocol for tendon healing with this product? I believe I've seen one half dose every two days recommended, however how accurate would the doses be given that I'd be attempting to use only half an oral syringe at a time?
    For your purposes, half a syringe every day for the first 5-10 days should prove best. Accuracy of dosing is of low importance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by djl View Post
    I'm really interested in your progress with the oratropin--I'll likely be missing an opportunity to use it, but I'm still incredibly curious as to its effectiveness for you!

    Are you using "00" caps for your cissus? If so, boy 12 caps/day is quite a bit! How are you dosing it, 3 caps 4x/day or 4 caps 3x/day?
    I am using 00 caps. I'm dosing 2 caps 6 times per day, with 2 caps 15-30 minutes before each of my meals. This is a long standing injury, which I've likely been dealing with for over a year, that has gotten worse over time. I decided to really hit it with a pile of cissus for the initial period in hopes of some sort of pain relief, which I have obtained.
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    I asked this in a different thread, but figured it couldn't hurt to ask here as well. Is there a minimum amount of time that should pass between drinking fluids and administering the oratropin? I've seen recommendations of waiting 30-60 minutes after administering the product to intake fluids, but how about the reverse?
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    Quote Originally Posted by max silver View Post
    I asked this in a different thread, but figured it couldn't hurt to ask here as well. Is there a minimum amount of time that should pass between drinking fluids and administering the oratropin? I've seen recommendations of waiting 30-60 minutes after administering the product to intake fluids, but how about the reverse?
    No food for a hour and maybe 10 minutes for drinks before. I see Grunt recommending daily dosing and he maybe right, but we got results in 2 weeks with firefighter at 1/2 dose every 72hours.

    I lay on my side and rub on inside of lower cheek.
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    Hmm, that's quite the discrepancy in dosing recommendations then. Just to be safe I'll likely follow Grunt's advice and use half a syringe every day to start out. After my initial loading period of 10 days or so, would I be better off moving to a half dose every 2nd day or every 3rd day?
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    Quote Originally Posted by max silver View Post
    Hmm, that's quite the discrepancy in dosing recommendations then. Just to be safe I'll likely follow Grunt's advice and use half a syringe every day to start out. After my initial loading period of 10 days or so, would I be better off moving to a half dose every 2nd day or every 3rd day?
    What Grunt said was only for the first 5 to 10 days. After that then then dosing I wrote would also apply. Receptors will shut down if you don't take a day off. Every 72 is 48 hours on 24 off. At daily dosing, effects will slow down and then eventually stop by day 40. With every 72 hour dosing you can go for more than 60 days. He is trying to get you healed faster response by going to daily dosing in beginning.
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    Ah, thanks for the explanation, that clarifies things nicely.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werewolf View Post
    What Grunt said was only for the first 5 to 10 days. After that then then dosing I wrote would also apply. Receptors will shut down if you don't take a day off. Every 72 is 48 hours on 24 off. At daily dosing, effects will slow down and then eventually stop by day 40. With every 72 hour dosing you can go for more than 60 days. He is trying to get you healed faster response by going to daily dosing in beginning.
    yep THAT IS EXACTLY IT!
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    I've only dosed half a syringe twice, but I've already noticed my first effect from Oratropin. As of a few hours after my second dose, my testicles are hanging much lower, and have very noticably increased in size as well. That's not an effect that I was looking for specifically, but I'll certainly take it.
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    I've taken 7 half doses of oratropin now, and my shoulder is starting to feel much improved. I feel very little pain with normal usage throughout the day, whereas previously I would feel pain/discomfort with things as simple as opening a door or tying my shoes. I'll be taking a half dose daily for the next 2 or 3 days, and then will cut down to E3D dosing. After one more week I'll likely start up rotator cuff rehab exercises, and depending how those go, begin a more comprehensive shoulder rehab program, with particular focus on scapular retraction.

    I had to cut my cissus consumption down to 8 caps daily, as I have ran out of powder to cap more. I took advantage of the kilogram clearance sale at Customnutritionwarehouse, once it shows up I'll likely go back up to 12 caps daily.

    The only side effect I've seen so far from Oratropin is a dry mouth and dry throat after dosing. The first 3 to 4 hours after dosing leave me with an almost relentless thirst. Fatloss has picked up nicely, I seem to be recomping as scale weight has been constant, but I'm growing noticeably leaner.
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    Quote Originally Posted by max silver View Post
    I've taken 7 half doses of oratropin now, and my shoulder is starting to feel much improved. I feel very little pain with normal usage throughout the day, whereas previously I would feel pain/discomfort with things as simple as opening a door or tying my shoes. I'll be taking a half dose daily for the next 2 or 3 days, and then will cut down to E3D dosing. After one more week I'll likely start up rotator cuff rehab exercises, and depending how those go, begin a more comprehensive shoulder rehab program, with particular focus on scapular retraction.

    I had to cut my cissus consumption down to 8 caps daily, as I have ran out of powder to cap more. I took advantage of the kilogram clearance sale at Customnutritionwarehouse, once it shows up I'll likely go back up to 12 caps daily.

    The only side effect I've seen so far from Oratropin is a dry mouth and dry throat after dosing. The first 3 to 4 hours after dosing leave me with an almost relentless thirst. Fatloss has picked up nicely, I seem to be recomping as scale weight has been constant, but I'm growing noticeably leaner.
    Sounds like you are right on track, You should be really happy by the time you hit two weeks.
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    I certainly hope so. The only thing that concerns me somewhat is my upcoming 4 day maintenance shift in 1.5 weeks. It's typical to do alot of wrench pulling on those shifts, which in the past has aggravated my shoulder quite badly. I'm tempted to use my holiday hours to take that week off, but that would cut into my vacation time later in the year. With any luck I will have healed the shoulder enough by then to avoid any major regression in symptoms.
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    Quote Originally Posted by max silver View Post
    I certainly hope so. The only thing that concerns me somewhat is my upcoming 4 day maintenance shift in 1.5 weeks. It's typical to do alot of wrench pulling on those shifts, which in the past has aggravated my shoulder quite badly. I'm tempted to use my holiday hours to take that week off, but that would cut into my vacation time later in the year. With any luck I will have healed the shoulder enough by then to avoid any major regression in symptoms.
    Maybe up the cissus and oratropin during that time, it's just 4 days.
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    Just another quick update. Side effects are becoming more apparent, although they are easy enough to deal with. I am growing increasingly hungrier by the day it seems, and I am often ready to eat again as soon as 1 hour after my latest meal. I cut calories downward a few weeks ago and increased cardio at the same time, however I attribute most of the hunger increase to the oratropin. If desire to eat grows any stronger I may need to bump calories back up a bit and let oratropin partition these extra calories.

    The other side effect I've noticed is lethargy at points during the day. I am nearing the end of a 3 week rotation at work, which leaves my tired at the best of times, so that may be a contributing factor in the ass-dragging I've been doing at times lately.
  

  
 

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