RANT---- toothpicks and fatty's using

lifted

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Here's my time to rant a lil...

Why are there SO many guys here that cycle AS when they weigh less than 160lbs? Actually why so many under 180. lbs.??? But we'll stick to the 160 since this problem has mulitplied in to the hundreds...

What really irks me is why are you posting a pic of your 140lb. ass or your 200lb. skinny completely smooth toddler body-type in your avatar, and then act like you know more than anyone about diet/supps/training/AAS, etc.??

The only thing most the people here need is FOOD. Not epistane this, dekka :rolleyes: that, get your diet right and look like an actual bodybuilder and THEN you can venture into using steroids to further your game. This is just another insult to injury when it comes to stereotyping juice users... mostly kids that don't wanna put any work in and want fast results....

I am amazed at the amount of tiny guys using INSANE amounts of sauce here... simply amazed. And noone ever says anything to 'em. If your a smaller/fatter guy, then AT LEAST don't put a pic of yourself in your avvy, at least that way we won't know what you look like and you can get the benefit of the doubt...

This isn't being mean, everyone gotta start somewhere and I respect ANYONE who dedicates themselves to bettering themselves in any way, but dedication is becoming replaced with epistane/superdrol, etc. lately.
 
Rodja

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I wouldn't be so black and white with weight. Also, not all cycles are constructed for the sole reason of increased mass. I don't weigh 180, but I have used PH/PS in the past for strength purposes.
 
lifted

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I wouldn't be so black and white with weight. Also, not all cycles are constructed for the sole reason of increased mass. I don't weigh 180, but I have used PH/PS in the past for strength purposes.

Still disagree. Strength can be gained w/o mass with the right training regimen naturally. Not until somebody is close to their natural limits not only in size, but strength too do they need help with AAS to increase lifts/size. Works both ways...
 
lifted

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I don't weigh 180, but I have used PH/PS in the past for strength purposes.
And I disagree w/ it... could've done it naturally, considering the weight you were (under 180 like you said...) Not until you reach natty limits does it get harder to accomplish.
 

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How many people here who use gear truely hit their genetic potential ? Honestly, if I had to guess, I'd say less than 1%.
 
Rodja

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I should also point out that I do not desire to be much above 175 for weight class purposes. Steroids are just as important for recovery and strength as they are for gaining size.
 
bioman

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Observations;

1. Steroids are in no way reserved exclusively for bodybuilders or the bodybuilding community. The attitude of proprietary ownership the BBing community has is in some ways warranted since that particular community did the on the ground experimentation to elevate the world's knowledge of anabolic steroids. Given that they are mostly illegal, they belong under the jurisdiction of the United States of America which has not set guidelines for use or who may use them. Sucks but it's true.

2. Most people using street or otc AAS supplements are never going to be BBers and a good chunk of them have no intention of getting into BBing..ever. Most just want to look better than they did. I would guess that today, more non-BBers use steroids than BBers do by a wide margin.

Is it wrong that the non BBers took a shortcut? Debatable considering the Pro BBing community itself has trouble admitting to the general public that the sport is in fact, entirely based on who can afford the most juice, food and time to lift therefore being a de facto artificial construct of "sport" where one's success is not based on talent, but rather the ability to morph one's self into what is currently considered aesthetic or simply huge. That's not to say it does not take enormous knowledge and discipline, but how often do you think of an up and coming BBer as a "gifted athlete with considerable skills"?

3. As to when a person "should" start using AAS, the answer is a simple "never". Even if one were to strive to become a pro BBer, in many ways that is not a good enough reason to repeatedly use hormones to excess that we know to enlarge hearts and unbalance the endocrine system thus shortening lifespan.

So in hindsight, if even a pro BBer should not use AAS for what amounts to professionalized vanity, then neither should anyone else for the non-institutionalized variety.

Rant off :D
 
lifted

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How many people here who use gear truely hit their genetic potential ? Honestly, if I had to guess, I'd say less than 1%.
Exactly my point, therein lies the problem. One should be at the least somewhat close to theri limit. But 140-150lbs. isn't even close.

As far as uses for recovery/ etc. go and not so much mass gain, I agree. Pro athletes should be able to use AAS to recover from the physical damage that gets done to them week in and week out. But how many pro athletes are on this board? ;)
 
lifted

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Observations;

1. Steroids are in no way reserved exclusively for bodybuilders or the bodybuilding community. The attitude of proprietary ownership the BBing community has is in some ways warranted since that particular community did the on the ground experimentation to elevate the world's knowledge of anabolic steroids. Given that they are mostly illegal, they belong under the jurisdiction of the United States of America which has not set guidelines for use or who may use them. Sucks but it's true.

2. Most people using street or otc anabolic steroids supplements are never going to be BBers and a good chunk of them have no intention of getting into BBing..ever. Most just want to look better than they did. I would guess that today, more non-BBers use steroids than BBers do by a wide margin.

Is it wrong that the non BBers took a shortcut? Debatable considering the Pro BBing community itself has trouble admitting to the general public that the sport is in fact, entirely based on who can afford the most juice, food and time to lift therefore being a de facto artificial construct of "sport" where one's success is not based on talent, but rather the ability to morph one's self into what is currently considered aesthetic or simply huge. That's not to say it does not take enormous knowledge and discipline, but how often do you think of an up and coming BBer as a "gifted athlete with considerable skills"?

3. As to when a person "should" start using AAS, the answer is a simple "never". Even if one were to strive to become a pro BBer, in many ways that is not a good enough reason to repeatedly use hormones to excess that we know to enlarge hearts and unbalance the endocrine system thus shortening lifespan.

So in hindsight, if even a pro BBer should not use AAS for what amounts to professionalized vanity, then neither should anyone else for the non-institutionalized variety.

Rant off :D
Talk about breakin it down. :D
 

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Just because someone is smaller than you, doesn't mean that they are less knowledgeable. I've learned a lot from dudes that are smaller than me. Not everyone is a bodybuilder, but that doesn't mean you can't learn how to train like a bodybuilder from someone who isn't. i.e., someone who went to school and majored in exercise science but is a marathon runner. I have a friend that's a ton bigger than I am, but doesn't know crap about anything that has to do with weightlifting. *cough* GENETICS *cough*
 
bioman

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As to how many pro athletes on the board...I would say in my own situation what lead me to use was the nature of the work I was doing at the time. Extreme hiking/mountaineering wore me down to the point where I felt I wasn't recovering even after 2 weeks off. Killed off my natural gains in one 3 month period.

This lead to some mild PH use and I was pleased with the recovery of my joints as well as the extra strength. The huge boost in body comp was nice too and I toyed for a few years with getting huge, made it slightly past 200 but was so uncomfortable with the extra mass (despite the fact it was virtually unsustainable if I did field work) that I opted for a cruising weight of around 175-180 which does not require use though in the future I may opt to use simply for maintenance once every other year or something.

So if I sound harsh on the bbers out there, I'm not trying to be. I do respect the sport, the knowledge base that it contains and the people I have met in this arena. I just have to laugh at the proprietary attitude regarding AAS. That genie is out of the bottle and it's the fault of the Nazi's if you want to get technical. lol
 

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Exactly my point, therein lies the problem. One should be at the least somewhat close to theri limit. But 140-150lbs. isn't even close.

As far as uses for recovery/ etc. go and not so much mass gain, I agree. Pro athletes should be able to use anabolic steroids to recover from the physical damage that gets done to them week in and week out. But how many pro athletes are on this board? ;)
I'm just gonna generalize, but people in general when it comes to muscle gains are very impatient. I know plently of ppl who use hormonal supps within 3-6 months of STARTING weight training.

I think it just depends on what people's goals are. Despite the popular belief it IS possible to make gains naturally and not use juice or 'pro-juice', but the reality is that gear makes things easier in general, results faster, and overall aids the process.
 
lifted

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I just have to laugh at the proprietary attitude regarding anabolic steroids. That genie is out of the bottle and it's the fault of the Nazi's if you want to get technical. lol
In contrast, I have to laugh at guys posting there cycles when they weigh less than 180. There is no point, no reason, you can do it natty. Most if not all that say they can't naturally achieve their goals aren't because of lack of dedication. I have YET to see one diet from one of these smaller guys that is a muscle-building/sustaining diet.

Using AAS and using AAS irresponsibly and as a crutch...that is a big difference bio.
 
bioman

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I can agree there perhaps. I think a lot of smaller guys, self included, log the product for the sake of feedback for the consumer so that's not entirely a waste of time. The pros certainly aren't going to indict themselves telling us what works and what doesn't.
 

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I'm always amazed when I open a "supplement advice" thread, and see a 16/17 year old guy who weighs 150 saying, "I tried creatine and made some nice gains, but I want something more effective. Is Epistane/Superdrol a good stack?" We all have a desire to get into better shape, and do it as quickly as possible, but it's insane to jump from the most basic bodybuilding supplement that occurs naturally in the body, to an extremely stressful hormonal supplement. The sad fact is, they probably didn't even need the creatine in the first place. Sure, supps are fun, but there is a ton you can do naturally, and it's a long, long road to travel before PHs/steroids should even be considered.

I think it's just hard to say no to such an easy route. You can buy a creatine preworkout mixture for around $30 a month, and a PH for about the same. Someone struggling to gain mass because of poor diet or inexperience are likely to become frustrated and order themselves what they believe will give them the fastest results.
 
EasyEJL

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Just a funny question, how many people have used a credit card to buy a gift?
 
EasyEJL

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Wasn't funny, and irrelevant.
Wasn't really meant to be funny, and is relevant. Plenty of people do plenty of things they don't need to do, in an effort to meet desires.

Using credit to "speed up" having money to pay for something you don't need is not very different than using a compound to "speed up" muscular development you don't need. Its more a marker of society in general, that we live in an instant gratification world....

Why do you think there are tons of foreclosures this year? because people wanted to try and short circuit the normal house buying process, get a house that was bigger than they could afford and not put money down on it. $0 down on a $500,000 house, with variable payments keeping it to $1600 a month the first 3 years. Not much different than the 150lb guy who watched 300 and said "ooh I can look like that with superdrol"

Its not a case of me agreeing with it or thinking its a good idea, but even if I don't agree the sky should be blue, it still is.
 
pistonpump

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just curious lifted, how big are you? I imagine you are a pretty big guy maybe 250lbs? Im just speculating here but i doubt you had to work you way up that much with too much help because you probably have good genetics in regards to this subject. Im not saying i disagree with you but i notice alot of guys that are somewhat blessed with muscular or larger bodies overall due to genetics, they complain the most about the skinnys taking sauce...Now I did my first cycle when i was about 185 and i didnt really even know what was what but the thing is i saw a bottle of m1t going for $10, that was like irresistable when you are naive and somewhat ignorant and you hear all these people gaining 20lbs on the stuff, the majority of people will buy it. Not everyone is out there researching what they put in their bodies and if its sold on a supplement shop website how will they know the difference? Its almost like telling someone dont take a vicodin if you dont have pain...why not, its not like its going to kill me and it might feel good...this is generally the thinking i assume. I think everyone should workout for years and build that bodybuilding physique naturally before hitting the gear but how do we know were the genetic limit really is anyway? There is no real way of telling is there?
 
lifted

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Wasn't really meant to be funny, and is relevant. Plenty of people do plenty of things they don't need to do, in an effort to meet desires.

Using credit to "speed up" having money to pay for something you don't need is not very different than using a compound to "speed up" muscular development you don't need. Its more a marker of society in general, that we live in an instant gratification world....

Why do you think there are tons of foreclosures this year? because people wanted to try and short circuit the normal house buying process, get a house that was bigger than they could afford and not put money down on it. $0 down on a $500,000 house, with variable payments keeping it to $1600 a month the first 3 years. Not much different than the 150lb guy who watched 300 and said "ooh I can look like that with superdrol"

Its not a case of me agreeing with it or thinking its a good idea, but even if I don't agree the sky should be blue, it still is.
The above analogy is comparing match box cars to military tanks. One's body is not something you can foreclose. yes, irrelevant...
 
lifted

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just curious lifted, how big are you? I imagine you are a pretty big guy maybe 250lbs? Im just speculating here but i doubt you had to work you way up that much with too much help because you probably have good genetics in regards to this subject. Im not saying i disagree with you but i notice alot of guys that are somewhat blessed with muscular or larger bodies overall due to genetics, they complain the most about the skinnys taking sauce...Now I did my first cycle when i was about 185 and i didnt really even know what was what but the thing is i saw a bottle of m1t going for $10, that was like irresistable when you are naive and somewhat ignorant and you hear all these people gaining 20lbs on the stuff, the majority of people will buy it. Not everyone is out there researching what they put in their bodies and if its sold on a supplement shop website how will they know the difference? Its almost like telling someone dont take a vicodin if you dont have pain...why not, its not like its going to kill me and it might feel good...this is generally the thinking i assume. I think everyone should workout for years and build that bodybuilding physique naturally before hitting the gear but how do we know were the genetic limit really is anyway? There is no real way of telling is there?
No not at all, I was cursed with genetics. I ran my first cycle of 1-ad back in 2001. At that time I weighed 190 or so. Leading up to that I trained for 3 years consistently... went from a lean 150 to a lean 190. I ate till I LITERALLY puked... I even RE-ATE what I puked!!!

I'm sure "getting older" had a little to do with it too, but the fact remains that I SOOOO wanted to try out all of the new gen PH's, for those last 2 years. But just like my diet and training, I dedicated myself to hitting my natty capacity (or somehwat near it) before hittin up that infamous 1-ad cycle.

That cycle netted me 12 keepable lbs. Brought me around 215. Since then I dabbled in PH's for those next couple years and then realized the lack of research on 'em and was sick of chancing my liver and went on to injects. I'm just about to come off my current cycle here and I'm weighing in at 265 with a bit of a gut. Will cut that down before end of cycle to 255. Hopefully will be able to net about 9lbs. pure muscle from this one. W/o juice, I can now attain a lean-ER 235lbs. anymore than that and I'm going to have to hit up a cycle every year to every other year.

The thing is, everybody here HAS the research and help around them, there is no excuse. GNC and all that is a different animal, yes. I';m actually kinda shocked more people aren't backing me. If you would've visited this board 5 yrs. ago, a 150lb.er asking for cycle advice woulda been banned, indef.:afro:
 
pistonpump

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No, i definately agree with you i was just stating my observations on why it is happening.

COngrats on your achievements. I guess you would say your natty limit is 235?

Right now im having a real tough time getting past 220 and staying there. Ive gotten to 230 but came right back down to 215. At 220 this is the most ive weighed natty in 7 years of training.
 
bioman

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Well, part of the problem is that you're generalizing about people's use based solely on body weight. When you say "a 150 pounder" it's not like that couldn't have been a person training for 5 years.

I lifted for close to 10 years, got progressively more serious about it going from a very skinny 5'10" 125# to 177 naturally. Lost about 10-12 pounds to work/cardio then dabbled in PH simply to speed the process of regaining what I had and adding a little more.

The real meat of your argument is that there are people who have only been lifting for a few months and dive straight into using...to which I fully agree with you that they should not. I am glad I never knew of or had access to PHs during my 10 year learning curve.

These guys that jump right into using are missing out on soooo much real knowledge..the kind you earn the hard way from trial and error, that they'd be nothing without the drugs.

In that, I think we agree.
 
lifted

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No, i definately agree with you i was just stating my observations on why it is happening.

COngrats on your achievements. I guess you would say your natty limit is 235?

Right now im having a real tough time getting past 220 and staying there. Ive gotten to 230 but came right back down to 215. At 220 this is the most ive weighed natty in 7 years of training.
thx man, apprec the kind words. For the past 10 yrs. or os I've worked MY ASS OFF and thankfully its payed off. It was tough getting to this point, but pretty soon, I'm gonna throw gaining out the window and just maintane what I have and enjoy it. Much easier for the long run not to mention healthier.

And I'm sure you'll get there PP. Just stick to it like you been, and it will come. Sometimes gaining fat is just inevitable if you really want that 10 more lbs., remember that, you can cut again later/// Im sure you alreayd knew that though.:afro:
 
lifted

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Well, part of the problem is that you're generalizing about people's use based solely on body weight. When you say "a 150 pounder" it's not like that couldn't have been a person training for 5 years.

I lifted for close to 10 years, got progressively more serious about it going from a very skinny 5'10" 125# to 177 naturally. Lost about 10-12 pounds to work/cardio then dabbled in PH simply to speed the process of regaining what I had and adding a little more.

The real meat of your argument is that there are people who have only been lifting for a few months and dive straight into using...to which I fully agree with you that they should not. I am glad I never knew of or had access to PHs during my 10 year learning curve.

These guys that jump right into using are missing out on soooo much real knowledge..the kind you earn the hard way from trial and error, that they'd be nothing without the drugs.

In that, I think we agree.


You're totally right bio. I should have made myself more clear from the beginning. The gen was very broad. Like you said, the problem I have is the new guys coming here that have obviously just started training and delve into the sauce. Shoulda been more precise.

Not to mention some guys at 170-180 who are shorter can be pretty large guys at that weight. And def there's some exceptions as in rodja's case... he used for recovery purposes since he is a pro athlete.
 
thesinner

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What is a person's natural limit, the point in which a person can no longer gain muscle mass? This would imply that muscle mass has become so abundant, that they body is oxidizing it for sustanence as quickly as it is being built. If this is the point where a person should use steroids, I don't quite understand the point of using them at all. Even if a cycle were to get you past this point, all your gains would be lost as your metabolism returns to steady state. Since there's about a million (infinitely many) different methods/variations in which a person can effectively build muscle; in order to diagnostically prove that a person has reached their natural limit, it would take several lifetimes.

Other assumptions you are making within your rant:
-Height and frame size. 160lbs on a person who's 5'2" versus someone who's 6'1" makes a HUGE difference. In fact, weight and bf% makes a some very large assumptions about muscle mass. People who say they've gained Xlbs of pure muscle from a Something-bol cycle....actually didn't gain that much at all.
-Steroids "only build muscle mass". Sorry, but that is far from the truth. The fact of the matter is, the most common application for AAS isn't to build muscle at all; it's to enhance athletic performance.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not in total disagreance with you. I get PM's/emails all the time saying "Hey, I just started weight training last week. Gains have been kinda slow, and I'm thinking of starting some Anadrol because I hear that stuff's the best. What's a good way to use this?" (*Dramatization). My rule of thumb has always been if you've got several years of training under your belt, you know how to train and eat right to build muscle naturally, you understand and are prepared for what you're getting yourself into (risks, sides, etc.), and you want to use them.
 
lifted

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What is a person's natural limit, the point in which a person can no longer gain muscle mass? This would imply that muscle mass has become so abundant, that they body is oxidizing it for sustanence as quickly as it is being built. If this is the point where a person should use steroids, I don't quite understand the point of using them at all. Even if a cycle were to get you past this point, all your gains would be lost as your metabolism returns to steady state. Since there's about a million (infinitely many) different methods/variations in which a person can effectively build muscle; in order to diagnostically prove that a person has reached their natural limit, it would take several lifetimes.

Other assumptions you are making within your rant:
-Height and frame size. 160lbs on a person who's 5'2" versus someone who's 6'1" makes a HUGE difference. In fact, weight and bf% makes a some very large assumptions about muscle mass. People who say they've gained Xlbs of pure muscle from a Something-bol cycle....actually didn't gain that much at all.
-Steroids "only build muscle mass". Sorry, but that is far from the truth. The fact of the matter is, the most common application for anabolic steroids isn't to build muscle at all; it's to enhance athletic performance.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not in total disagreance with you. I get PM's/emails all the time saying "Hey, I just started weight training last week. Gains have been kinda slow, and I'm thinking of starting some Anadrol because I hear that stuff's the best. What's a good way to use this?" (*Dramatization). My rule of thumb has always been if you've got several years of training under your belt, you know how to train and eat right to build muscle naturally, you understand and are prepared for what you're getting yourself into (risks, sides, etc.), and you want to use them.

:goodpost:
 
bLacKjAck.

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I actually agree in very large part with this "rant''.

Sad thing is, nothing we say or do is going to change it. So just don't try.
 
Red Dog

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I also hear you on this one, and sinners post is pretty much what i was thinkin as well..

I have a younger brother in high school and some of his buddies are already messin with this.. I mean they're soo young? He went as far as to ask why the fvck they were using it and essentially heard it was to impress ladies (big surprise!).. :fool2:

But either way the availability, price, and short-term benefits are so appealing that people (especially kids) just can't help but get caught up in this crap.
 

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The population of real bodybuilders is still very small. There are more recreational lifters instead.

Like the guy at the bar who only does pecs, biceps and abs.

Or the other guy who only works upper body...(assuming he does not have a lower body injury/problem).

I see a lot of misproportional bodies at my gym.
 
thesinner

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I also hear you on this one, and sinners post is pretty much what i was thinkin as well..

I have a younger brother in high school and some of his buddies are already messin with this.. I mean they're soo young? He went as far as to ask why the fvck they were using it and essentially heard it was to impress ladies (big surprise!).. :fool2:

But either way the availability, price, and short-term benefits are so appealing that people (especially kids) just can't help but get caught up in this crap.
Ladies tend to prefer big, juicy balls that still shoot. I hear they're also not fans of man-boobs or vascularity (my 1/2" veins tend to gross them out). But that's just me. I understand ladies as much as you understand organic chemistry. ;)

I think you can get young teenagers away from steroids when you tell them about the sides, and how at such a young age sides can be more pronounced and permanent. At such an early age, the endocrine system is still developing. Even though you might be done growing (vertically), that doesn't mean your done growing up.
 
lifted

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Ladies tend to prefer big, juicy balls that still shoot. I hear they're also not fans of man-boobs or vascularity (my 1/2" veins tend to gross them out). But that's just me. I understand ladies as much as you understand organic chemistry. ;)

I think you can get young teenagers away from steroids when you tell them about the sides, and how at such a young age sides can be more pronounced and permanent. At such an early age, the endocrine system is still developing. Even though you might be done growing (vertically), that doesn't mean your done growing up.
I actually kinda feel bad for the kids that go to GNC and their reps push all these PH/PS's on them. Like I said, with the research available here and other forums like this one, there really is no excuse... but when young kids go to the supps stores looking for some trustworthy advice to better their bodies and try to live a healthier lifestyle, all they get is bad advice and the possibility to turn themselves off from training altogether from permanently screwing their bodies up.

You should ALWAYS research what you put in your body, but I'll have to admit, when I was younger I listened to a lot of the wrong advice at times too simply because I was too young to think otherwise, especially if it's someone who you admire and want to strive to be like.

In a way I think that the gov't shouldn't be allowed whatsover to tell us what we can and cannot put in our own bodies, but OTOH, I am against wreckless abandonment when it comes to kids being able to buy these types of things in stores like candy bars. Something needs to be done, and I think major penalties should be given to supp store employees selling to underage kids and theri should be some kind of insert with certain products giving you REAL info about what these things do, how they work, and how to evaluate and combat sides and things. Pipe dreams I guess...
 
gotripped

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its true. it is a double edged sword.
you can be small and use it get big and so on and so forth.
I did it and I learned from it and I would have done it again except with a better plan and gained more weight. Yeehaw.
Anyways, Butt love for you all.
 
kwyckemynd00

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I don't give a rats ass who takes the juice. If they juice and still suck, that's their wasted dough, not mine.

What I care about is when as$holes juice and blame them being as$holes on the juice when they're clearly just as$holes. That kind of stuff bugs me. Or when an idiot juices and lifts weights with his head, breaks his neck, and then blames it on the juice when he was just a fµcking moron. /rant
 
gotripped

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I don't give a rats ass who takes the juice. If they juice and still suck, that's their wasted dough, not mine.

What I care about is when as$holes juice and blame them being as$holes on the juice when they're clearly just as$holes. That kind of stuff bugs me. Or when an idiot juices and lifts weights with his head, breaks his neck, and then blames it on the juice when he was just a fµcking moron. /rant
lol... people lift weights with their heads?
 
kwyckemynd00

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lol... people lift weights with their heads?
There is some idiot who goes around giving lectures talking about the dangers of steroids. He was lifting weights with his head and screwed himself up. Idiot.
 
thesinner

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Neck exercises I take it?

I think the problem the media has with steroids is that although your muscles get bigger from their use, it has zero impact on your brain (from an intelligence standpoint).
 
Rivet

Rivet

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I actually kinda feel bad for the kids that go to GNC and their reps push all these PH/PS's on them.
Being Canadian thats just funny to be. Here they push the newest Trib mix.
 
EasyEJL

EasyEJL

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Yeah, honestly, I don't see any real PHs in GNC. Legal Gear DHEA products perhaps. Gaspari Halodrol liquigels. They push NO Explode or naNO vapor more than anything else.
 
Ubiquitous

Ubiquitous

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I don't give a rats ass who takes the juice. If they juice and still suck, that's their wasted dough, not mine.
Word to yo momma.

The constant growth of members here will only irritate more and more people who haven't learned to be apathetic about this particular matter.

I just don't post in the said forums about the subject, as I don't care anymore.
 
T-Bone

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And I disagree w/ it... could've done it naturally, considering the weight you were (under 180 like you said...) Not until you reach natty limits does it get harder to accomplish.

It also gets harder to acomplish once your over 30.
 
kwyckemynd00

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It also gets harder to acomplish once your over 30.
And I disagree with that.

IMHO there is one huge misconception running amuck on all the boards: high test = big growth, i.e. a teen will grow faster than an adult.

My personal experience has been that people in their late 20s to early/mid thirties grow better than anyone. I don't know why, but I could certainly speculate.
 
thesinner

thesinner

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And I disagree with that.

IMHO there is one huge misconception running amuck on all the boards: high test = big growth, i.e. a teen will grow faster than an adult.

My personal experience has been that people in their late 20s to early/mid thirties grow better than anyone. I don't know why, but I could certainly speculate.
Teens have high TOTAL testosterone levels, but the majority of it is being used up for their sexual development (i.e. the latter stages of puberty), no?
 
T-Bone

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In contrast, I have to laugh at guys posting there cycles when they weigh less than 180. There is no point, no reason, you can do it natty. Most if not all that say they can't naturally achieve their goals aren't because of lack of dedication. I have YET to see one diet from one of these smaller guys that is a muscle-building/sustaining diet.

Using anabolic steroids and using AAS irresponsibly and as a crutch...that is a big difference bio.
Some of the top bodybuilders were under 200 back in the day. Have you ever seen "Pumping Iron". Have you heard of Franco Colombo?. Not that I'm into bodybuilding, but I have a copy of that movie. Bodybuilders back in those days late 70s-early 80s were a more respectable buch. I mean I respect them more. Todays bodybuilders just look like cartoon characters. Pumped up full of steroids with heart problems from being to big. Look at old pictures of Mike Mentzer, that is what a bobybuilder should look like. Today all they care about is Mass. Pro bodybuilders are way too big for their own good, but who cares right?. To them its not a lifestyle change, its the way they live till they die at 50 from a life of excess...I believe more in the Anti-aging crowd then bodybuilders. What is wrong with just trying to stay healthy and live a long and productive life?. You don't have to be 250 pounds and 8 percent bodyfat to do that. In fact weighing that much whether its muscle or fat, is BAD for your health.


Ok I guess I'll stop. Now that is a Rant....
 
T-Bone

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And I disagree with that.

IMHO there is one huge misconception running amuck on all the boards: high test = big growth, i.e. a teen will grow faster than an adult.

My personal experience has been that people in their late 20s to early/mid thirties grow better than anyone. I don't know why, but I could certainly speculate.

Ok then, well just post again when your 35 and tell me what you think....
 
Rivet

Rivet

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Ok I guess I'll stop. Now that is a Rant....
I agree, I talk to a few Pro and Ex pros at my gym. One guy there is HUGE but he cant make it to the top because as he calls it hes too much of a "pretty boy". Sure hes double my size but hes symmetrical and has the V taper but not a mass monster.
 
T-Bone

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Wasn't really meant to be funny, and is relevant. Plenty of people do plenty of things they don't need to do, in an effort to meet desires.

Using credit to "speed up" having money to pay for something you don't need is not very different than using a compound to "speed up" muscular development you don't need. Its more a marker of society in general, that we live in an instant gratification world....

Why do you think there are tons of foreclosures this year? because people wanted to try and short circuit the normal house buying process, get a house that was bigger than they could afford and not put money down on it. $0 down on a $500,000 house, with variable payments keeping it to $1600 a month the first 3 years. Not much different than the 150lb guy who watched 300 and said "ooh I can look like that with superdrol"

Its not a case of me agreeing with it or thinking its a good idea, but even if I don't agree the sky should be blue, it still is.

Yep they want a bigger box to put all their s hit in. All the useless crap that we buy, and when our crap gets old we have to sell it or get a bigger box so we can store our old crap.
 

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