[ShakesAllDay]

IMO - a load of crap. Slavery was a major part of civilizations long before they were used in the U.S.. Can you imagine how many of these "Apology for Slavery" deals we would have to go through to cover them all?

Edited: [off-topic]

Discuss.

[sean taylor]

Why? You want us to dissuade you?
I am black and my last name is Taylor so that means I am descendant from slaves...I don't want an apology, I want pay for that labor...at the rate back then plus interest.

[Mega NRG Man]

Originally Posted by ShakesAllDay

IMO - a load of crap. Slavery was a major part of civilizations long before they were used in the U.S.. Can you imagine how many of these "Apology for Slavery" deals we would have to go through to cover them all?

Without the installation of slavery throughout time, we may not be where we are today. Would the pyramids ever have been built (assuming they weren't created by aliens)?

Discuss.

Yes, because the pyramids were highly important to civilation.

Disregarding that highly misguided point, I'll point out that slavery in Greco-Roman civilization was sometimes as good as being a well-paid worker in modern times, instead of being used as a draft animal, bred, abused, treated as livestock, and all such other horrors that slaves from Africa had to deal with. Not to mention that they never limited one race to slavery.

Secondly, regarding the "apologists=crap" stance, the Germans are still paying out the ass for what they did to the Jews. Go ahead and make the same point for them.



I as a descendant from USA Slaves on my mother's side, would like a full payment as well. Keep your apology. Of course, chances are someone will pull out the ol' "Y'ALL BLACK PEEPUL R LAZY! Y'ALL JUST WANT FREE MONEY CUZ Y'ALL DUN WANNA WORK!" argument. To that I say: It was by our blood, sweat, and tears that the United States of America was built. If we were indeed lazy this country would still be a tiny set of colonies.

[Jayhawkk]

My ancestry goes back to the Aztecs. I want a cut of the gold.

[ShakesAllDay]

IMO, that would be a better option than conjuring up some bull**** *Apology*. Of course, this world isn't perfect, and that would never happen.

But, back on topic... where does this *official* apology succeed? Where does it fail?

Note: BTW, this isn't to be a pro/con slavery issue. I am sorry for the many injustices done to people throughout time. But, as far as an official apology... that's the discussion.

[ShakesAllDay]

So, what are your thoughts (pros and cons) of this official apology? Again, this isn't a pro/con slavery issue, rather a pro/con Apology issue.

[Mega NRG Man]

Originally Posted by ShakesAllDay

So, what are your thoughts (pros and cons) of this official apology? Again, this isn't a pro/con slavery issue, rather a pro/con Apology issue.

The official apology is more or less just a slap in the face to the many who died in pain and suffering during the Slavery era, not to mention the hundreds killed by racial hate in the afterward periods.

Can a simple "I'm Sorry" wash away the blood from the hands of the peoples of the United States of America? Think about that for a minute. In the end, it really seems like a futile and empty move.

[Mulletsoldier]

Originally Posted by ShakesAllDay

So, what are your thoughts (pros and cons) of this official apology? Again, this isn't a pro/con slavery issue, rather a pro/con Apology issue.

I am sorry, but I don't feel that you can emancipate these two issues apart from eachother. The sentiment involved in the apology, and one's stance on said sentiment, are innately related to the act itself.

Aside from that, I am rather confused; you began the discussion expounding the benefits of slavery throughout history, and later state it is not a slavery stance issue. It would seem that it is, yet just funneled into this particular issue for your purposes.

On a practical level, I think this apology does absolutely nothing. Possibly moralistically, but I feel that descendents of slaves are much less concerned with a moral victory than that of reparations.

As well, the "we can't apologize to every slave civilization" argument is completely ridiculous. You cannot compare the social, political, and economic institutions that perpetuated slavery in one civilization to the same in another. As such, you cannot take the same action in repairing the damages done. It is ridiculous to assume any prudency in apologizing for 2000 year old actions, but American slavery did not occur 2000 years ago.

[ShakesAllDay]

Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier

Aside from that, I am rather confused; you began the discussion expounding the benefits of slavery throughout history, and later state it is not a slavery stance issue. It would seem that it is, yet just funneled into this particular issue for your purposes.

You are right. I was running through a lot of thoughts in my wee wittle brain... that had nothing to do w/ this discussion. Edited.

On a practical level, I think this apology does absolutely nothing. Possibly moralistically, but I feel that descendants of slaves are much less concerned with a moral victory than that of reparations.

I agree. I fail to see the practicality of this Apology? What substance does it hold?

-------------

I disagree w/ this Apology, but I am not (obviously) 100% knowledgeable on it or on slavery in the United States. So, I started this discussion to enlighten myself and others or at least think about the situation.

[PumpingIron]

Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier

As well, the "we can't apologize to every slave civilization" argument is completely ridiculous. You cannot compare the social, political, and economic institutions that perpetuated slavery in one civilization to the same in another. As such, you cannot take the same action in repairing the damages done. It is ridiculous to assume any prudency in apologizing for 2000 year old actions, but American slavery did not occur 2000 years ago.

Amazing point. The social climate of the United States when slavery was in use was well more advanced then anywhere else that used slaves in such a manner.

But this is not to say that the United States was the only socially advanced culture that used slavery as a means towards wealth.

I think an apology is a good start. I personally do not feel reparations will ever see the light of day. It is not economically feasible for the United States. It would end up putting such a tremendous strain on our economy in which we would have a hard time recovering...

[sean taylor]

Originally Posted by PumpingIron

Amazing point. The social climate of the United States when slavery was in use was well more advanced then anywhere else that used slaves in such a manner.

But this is not to say that the United States was the only socially advanced culture that used slavery as a means towards wealth.

I think an apology is a good start. I personally do not feel reparations will ever see the light of day. It is not economically feasible for the United States. It would end up putting such a tremendous strain on our economy in which we would have a hard time recovering...

I agree so I vote to just drop it. What is done is done and cannot be taken back, let's just learn from it and move on as a society of humans, not races, countries, or ethnicities..

[spatch]

Originally Posted by ShakesAllDay

So, what are your thoughts (pros and cons) of this official apology? Again, this isn't a pro/con slavery issue, rather a pro/con Apology issue.

No one alive today had anything to do with slavery in America. Why do they need to apologize?

Why dont we ask the Japaneese for an apology for pearl harbor in a century or so.

[somewhatgifted]

Originally Posted by spatch

No one alive today had anything to do with slavery in America. Why do they need to apologize?

Why dont we ask the Japaneese for an apology for pearl harbor in a century or so.

An apology is free but has the ability to vindicate and validate the violated. Violations of personal freedom cannot be verified unless you victorioulsy celebrate freedom and value above vanity, all else. I apologize for any vile enough to make slaves victims, vigilant in this endeavor for all are created equal and days gone do not erase memories of pain the same way they erase guilt with the dying of the villians.

[CRUNCH]

There's still slavery today. Men, women and children are kidnapped on a regular basis in countries all over the world for use in the sex-slave industry.

Maybe we should try to take care of that first.

[sean taylor]

Originally Posted by spatch

No one alive today had anything to do with slavery in America. Why do they need to apologize?

Why dont we ask the Japaneese for an apology for pearl harbor in a century or so.

They did apologize, last summer.
Read the news more often..
An apology is a symbol. Why ave an American flag, we know you are an American if you are in America...it is the symbolism..the recognition that my forefathers were brought here, toiled, and died under duress for another persons gain. Why have the all the memorials we have? So we do not forget.
I still say I don't want the apology, just make it better for all persons to deal with the world and survive.

[mmowry]

Originally Posted by sean taylor

I agree so I vote to just drop it. What is done is done and cannot be taken back, let's just learn from it and move on as a society of humans, not races, countries, or ethnicities..