New PC: Core 2 Duo or AMD X2?

[BigVrunga]

My aging AMD XP2600+ based machine got fried the other day by a mysterious power spike, even though I was able to piece a working machine back together from parts I had laying around , I lost most of my Data/OS and have to build a system from the ground up. I reckon its high time I upgraded to a bigger machine. I do a lot of media creation, and audio/video work and was set on an AMD X2 4200+ system until i found out about the new Intel Core 2 Duo.

Think its a better bet to go for the higher performing Intel, or stick with the AM2 socket X2? Ive always been an AMD fan, but its hard to ignore the very real performance lead the Core 2 has over, well, everything.

X2 is cheaper and the motherboard chipsets are more mature/feature rich compared to the sparse 975 Intel motherboards that are currently available, although Im sure that will change in a few weeks or so.

I know a lot of you are into PC-building, so I figured Id ask for some opinions

BV

 

[tattoopierced1]

I stick with AMD as much as I can. I think that the Intel is too new and hasnt had time to mature enough to find all problems with the new chipset/processor. You might be able to pickup a socket 939 over an AM2 for cheaper too if you are looking to save some bucks and still get a dual core.

 

[BigVrunga]

I'm an AMD-guy myself, but looking at the core2 's performance benchmarks has me agonizing over a decision. Then again, the AM2 socket might have a decent upgrade path when AMD releases their 65nm cores later this year too, which should compete with or surpass Intel's core 2.

Either way I cant loose I guess - the performance upgrade from my old system will just be monstrous.

BV

 

[tattoopierced1]

i hear you on that.. i recently went from an Athlon Thunderbird 1ghz to my new AMD 64 3200+ with 2gb memory... much much nicer.

 

[Pfunk47]

for what's out and seeing as you seem to need a new machine pretty quick - I woudl go with the Intel. I hate saying that as I am an AMD fan as well but all in all they are really nice performing chips - besides paying much more for the motherboards (intel) they chips are reasonable - I did the Toms hardware 4ghz build - $100 for the chip - $200 for the motherboard - besides graphics I almost like it better than my 3700 san diego but I have xp64 on that and really 64 bit is where it's at if every manf. would hope on board. As always though AMD always trumps Intel evetually so...you know AMD is going to have some pretty nasty 65Nm chips soon - they are hyping up for their 4x4 platforms.

 

[BigVrunga]

Yeah,thats true. They're supposed to be AM2 sockets too so getting the AMD system now would hopefully mean an easy future upgrade. A nice mobo for the Core 2 is currently $250. Should change in a month or so...I might just stick it out, I have to move a bunch of stuffo on Ebay to pay for the PC anyway.

 

[CDB]

Wish I could give you advice but I've decided to not upgrade until neural net chips are available and smart/independent enough to make coffee for me in the morning. Plus I don't know jack about computers. Like all other machines, if they don't work, I hit them. If they still don't work after that, I do without or get a new one.

 

[Rodja]

This may not be exactly what you are lookng for, but I highly recommend an Apple computer. I had put up with so much BS from windows for about 5 years, but I have not had a single problem with my iMac since I bought it last year.

 

[Pfunk47]

Macs are nice - the only difference is the OS - they all use the same chips and parts as PC's do and we're talking parts here - You can build a far better machine than what mac offers for a 1/3 of the price - now laptops is a little different but for $2500 for the new powerbook 15" - anyone could build 3 desktop machines that would be equal or better than that.

 

[CDB]

Macs are nice - the only difference is the OS - they all use the same chips and parts as PC's do and we're talking parts here - You can build a far better machine than what mac offers for a 1/3 of the price - now laptops is a little different but for $2500 for the new powerbook 15" - anyone could build 3 desktop machines that would be equal or better than that.

When you say anyone, do you literally mean anyone or any independent builder? I have been thinking of getting a new PC but have been putting it off due to funds and nothing catching my eye. But to build my own, I could learn a little something and save money, that's an idea.

 

[Pfunk47]

Literally anyone who is not afraid to try it. The most difficult/delicate part is setting your chip, making sure you dont' have to much thermal grease on the chip, yet just enough then clicking it in place - the rest is all plug in - setting your bios options correctly can be a little tricky sometimes but for the most part standard setup that the manf. send it with works fine. You save so much $$ doing it yourself

for example - last Aug -
Dell home XPS model =$4500

I built a machine that had 2.4ghz processor (3700+ san diego) - (dell only had 2.2)
only 1 7800gtx (dell has 2)
4 gb of memory (dell has only 2gb)
250 sata (dell had 500gb)
650 watt true silent 85% efficient PWS (wayy better than dells)
I built for $1300

 

[BigVrunga]

When you say anyone, do you literally mean anyone or any independent builder? I have been thinking of getting a new PC but have been putting it off due to funds and nothing catching my eye. But to build my own, I could learn a little something and save money, that's an idea.

Anyone can build a PC, CDB! Just takes a little patience/time/etc. Like PFunk said the most intricate part is setting the CPU - but other than that its basically plugging in cards and hooking up wires. If you like to work on cars, you'll probably like working on computers - its a pretty close parallel.

The most difficult (and most fun) part, is deciding what to buy IMO.

This may not be exactly what you are lookng for, but I highly recommend an Apple computer. I had put up with so much BS from windows for about 5 years, but I have not had a single problem with my iMac since I bought it last year.

Macs are nice, no doubt. Ive been building/programming/fixing PC's for years though, so its an environment Im very comfortable with. There's just no justification for me to spend the extra $$ for an Apple.

 

[CDB]

Literally anyone who is not afraid to try it. The most difficult/delicate part is setting your chip, making sure you dont' have to much thermal grease on the chip, yet just enough then clicking it in place - the rest is all plug in - setting your bios options correctly can be a little tricky sometimes but for the most part standard setup that the manf. send it with works fine. You save so much $$ doing it yourself

Hmmmmmm.

What's thermal grease? Anyplace a guy can get a good layman's intro to this kind of thing that you guys would recommend?

 

[BigVrunga]

Check it out:

Build Your Own PC

Thermal Grease is thin layer of compound that goes between the cpu die and the heatsink on the CPU cooler. It allows heat to transfer evenly between the two, resulting in proper cooling.

Arctic Silver Incorporated - Home

 

[Pfunk47]

Thermal Grease is the conductive grease that you put on the bottom of the chip then when you connect it to the mother board. It helps the electical current travel between the chip and board as well as keeping the actual pins from overheating/fusing together. Your fan is what will keep the chip cool.
Here's what it looks like
Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM at Newegg.com


One of the best sites for comptuer news and industry updates - good tutorials too.

Building Your Own PC, Part 1: Know-How for Do-It-Yourselfers | Tom's Hardware

if you google "how to build your own computer" it will come up with all sorts of crap - the easiest part to figuring out how to connect the chip to the board is actaully in the manual when you buy the chip.

The longest part of building your own is, as BigV said, research - finding what you want and what mates with one another = reading lots of reviews and spending a fair amount or time researching all products.

It's true you get what you pay for in this market but also you must come to accept that you will always pay more right now then in 6 months eveything you just bought will be almost half price but look at what you saved by doing it yourself.

We can always start a "Help CDB build his first machine" thread, hehe or keep asking away in this thread and I'll answer all I can.

 

[BigVrunga]

+100 for Tom's Hardware! Also check out AnandTech: your source for hardware analysis and news - tons of great reviews and advice. My favorite PC-related forum is Overclockers Forums - Powered by vBulletin.


BV

 

[BigCasino]

If it was me, I would go with Intel's Core 2.

The E6600 model, and a nice ASUS 975x based motherboard would do you just fine. There is no doubt about it that AMD *was* kicking Intel's rear back when Intel only had the Pentium 4 and Pentium D out. Since the tables have turned however, you can't let any sense of brand loyalty sway your choice if you ultimately want the best bang for you buck. This is my professional opinion as a computer scientist.

Best of luck with whatever CPU you go with

 

[CDB]

Thanks for the links, I'm definitely looking into this.

 

[BigVrunga]

Thanks for the links, I'm definitely looking into this.

Just give a shout if you need any help or have questions,etc.

If it was me, I would go with Intel's Core 2.

The E6600 model, and a nice ASUS 975x based motherboard would do you just fine. There is no doubt about it that AMD *was* kicking Intel's rear back when Intel only had the Pentium 4 and Pentium D out. Since the tables have turned however, you can't let any sense of brand loyalty sway your choice if you ultimately want the best bang for you buck. This is my professional opinion as a computer scientist.

Best of luck with whatever CPU you go with

You're right man. Im an IT professional as well, and as much as I love AMD its hard for me to turn away from the Core 2 Duo. The only downside right now is that a nice motherboard for the Conroe is ~$250.

 

[Kris4153]

Im an AMD fan b/c of the price/performance ratio but Intel did a damn good job w/ this new chip so I vote for Intel!

 

[protomike]

I did the Toms hardware 4ghz build - $100 for the chip - $200 for the motherboard

pfunk, i was just lookin at that a few days ago. i've been thinkin of building a new desktop for the last few weeks(my aging pc at home is a pentium 3 800mhz), and i was wondering if you could tell me what motherboard you decided on... since they recomended a few diffrent ones on that guide. also any tips on a case or power supply? thanks.

 

[Pfunk47]

Sorry I was mistaken - I got the abit aw8d for $160 at newegg on sale. The Asus was my other option and that was $200.

Case - whatever you like really - they had a deal for $20 for a case, keyboard and mouse with speakers. Didn't need all tha tbut hey it's extra parts for basically free. My gaming machine I went fancy and spent $120 on (why? I dont' know it looked good )

Power supply - depends on what you want out of it - if your not going to go with anything huge for a video card - then I'd stay around 400watt - else go 500 watt - if you want SLI for now or in the future stay around 650watt. The more power the better IMO - with computer fractions of millivolts actualy makes a difference, minor fluctiations though pretty rare can fry a chip or board.

 

[tattoopierced1]

asus mobos are the best IMO. been using them for my 8+ years as a LAN Engineer and havent had a problem yet. I've had numerous issues with ABIT though.

 

[BigVrunga]

asus mobos are the best IMO. been using them for my 8+ years as a LAN Engineer and havent had a problem yet. I've had numerous issues with ABIT though.

Always been an Asus fan myself!

 

[max silver]

That's kind of a tough choice to make. A few months ago I built an Opteron based dual core machine using an Opteron 165, which were AMD's server based chips. The nice thing about these chips is that they are great overclockers, offering a great value for those into overclocking. With a good heatpipe based cpu cooler I was able to go from the stock speed of 1800 Mhz up to 2700 Mhz with relative ease. Anymore than that and the required voltages are just too much to bear, and heat starts to become an issue. The only problem with the Opteron I have is that it's a socket 939 chip, which is being phased out in favor of AM2.

Right now I'd give another vote for Intel, but with the way this industry seems to work AMD could release something even better next week.

 

[BigVrunga]

Right now I'd give another vote for Intel, but with the way this industry seems to work AMD could release something even better next week.

I know, no matter what when you buy a new PC you're screwed From the research Ive done though, AMD doesnt sound like they've got anything that can compete with the Core2 coming for quite a while - although during interviews their executives seem to be suspiciously calm, even welcoming the competition from Intel. I wouldnt be surprised if they have an ace up their sleeve.

 

[jmh80]

I think the whole "build your own for less" has become a bit of a myth. The big companies are now buying so many parts that the price has dropped. I know really can't play with anything (overclocking) - but still.

I just bought a Dell that I priced at NewEgg for a bit cheaper - maybe $200 or so - with this huge 35% off coupon (plus 8% as a big company employee that buys a ton of computers from Dell).

I got a Deminsion with a Pent. D 940 (3.2 ghz I think).

 

[tattoopierced1]

you can still build you own for less if you catch good deals. I guess now its more of a "you know what your putting in your box" type deal to make it run the best it can.

 

[x_muscle]

hum for a laptop....what do you guys recommend?

 

[tattoopierced1]

x_muscle: what are you wanting to do with it?

 

[Pfunk47]

I think the whole "build your own for less" has become a bit of a myth. The big companies are now buying so many parts that the price has dropped. I know really can't play with anything (overclocking) - but still.

I just bought a Dell that I priced at NewEgg for a bit cheaper - maybe $200 or so - with this huge 35% off coupon (plus 8% as a big company employee that buys a ton of computers from Dell).

I got a Deminsion with a Pent. D 940 (3.2 ghz I think).

I think a better phrase is...."if you are not a serious computer geek" then getting a dell is a easier option for only a few hundred more. The Myth I can debunk - My latest build - Core duo (not duo 2), 2gb ram, 256mb video card (only 12 pixel pipelines - ati 800gto), 150 gb sata HD - $563 total - just for the machine no monitor but....overclocked stable 3.6ghz any higher too much heat.

But your right Pentium D's are going dirt cheap now - these will be the next celerons. for ease of mind it is easier to go that route.

 

[TINYTOAD]

Here's my vote...

Go with the Intel X6800 and be done with it. The X6700 is a better bargain, but good luck finding one.

Yeah, quad cores will be out in six months or less. However, there will always be something bigger and better on the horizon. Where do you draw the line?

The Nvidia 7950 graphics card sounds good too, although running two in parallel doesn't seem to give much of an advantage, unless you're some kind of freak running a 30" wide screen monitor, and have money to burn.

At this slice in time, the Intel core 2 processors (from what I read) out perform the AMD processors dollar for dollar. This may all change with the phase of the moon, etc.

Anyhow, if I were to build a compuer today, I'd go with the x6800 / X6700 Core 2 extreme, or whatever it's called. Toss in that Nvidia dual processor graphics card, and I'm good.

-TT