The Bible Study Thread

[TheUnlikelyToad]

Ok, I'm not sure how this is going to turn out but I've been wanting to do something like this for some time now. I figured since there are plenty of Christians here this would be good place to start. Basically I would like this thread to be a place where we can come and give testimony of tha lords presence in our everyday lives. Alternately, I would also like to promote discussion of any particular passage of tha bible or verse that members might have trouble understanding in an effort to get different points of view and/or perspective. Because there are so many Christian organizations out there I would also encourage members to be tolerant of one's belief and not be disrespectful to others opinion. Afterall we are all Christians right? I'd hate to see any of us not acting very Christian-like and giving our faith a bad name mmkay? :nono:

 

[TheUnlikelyToad]

To kick this off I will let you into a little conversation I had tonight with one of my best friends. To be honest, he hasn't gotten to see this side of me much which is why he's been a little taken back as of late. So here's a little journey into my testimony/faith:

Kelby: so what's your plan?
TheUnlikelyToad: who knows, I just know I'm to help people wherever I can
Kelby: that's the way i feel
Kelby: i think that is good for you
TheUnlikelyToad: lately its been towards fitness/bbing which is ok by me
Kelby: so you aren't trying to get into social work?
Kelby: you and I should buy a gym
TheUnlikelyToad: Kelby, thats tha cool thing... even if it isn't social work, it still is
TheUnlikelyToad: God is using me
TheUnlikelyToad: and again I don't wanna freak you out
Kelby: lol.... you may have a little bit... i'm not used to seeing you like this
TheUnlikelyToad: I just know that there are reasons
Kelby: so are you going to get married anytime soon?
TheUnlikelyToad: my life is too damn good not to see tha bigger picture in life
Kelby: how is your relationship going?
TheUnlikelyToad: I mean you can't see wind right
TheUnlikelyToad: but you can see its effects
TheUnlikelyToad: I see tha effects I have on ppl
TheUnlikelyToad: damn dude I've been on TV
TheUnlikelyToad: that **** doesn't just happen at random
Kelby: certainly not... but what are you going to do about it?
Kelby: move to a bigger area with more opportunities... or stay in halifax?
Kelby: are you going to get certified as a trainer?
TheUnlikelyToad: stay in halifax until a legitimate opportunity arises
TheUnlikelyToad: I might
TheUnlikelyToad: haven't decided
TheUnlikelyToad: no benefits
Kelby: are you looking for legitimate opportunities?
TheUnlikelyToad: There is a good chance of me going with Joey Rodgrigues to tha Arnold in March...
Kelby: that's cool
TheUnlikelyToad: I'm looking so half
TheUnlikelyToad: I've sent out one resume within tha last three weeks
TheUnlikelyToad: but I'm not stressing
TheUnlikelyToad: I know it'll work out
TheUnlikelyToad: It's God's time, not mine
Kelby: it's almost a year now though..... aren't you at least getting sorta worried about ****?
TheUnlikelyToad: God works through people
Kelby: i know it's nice to think god is in control of everything... but you make decisions for yourself too
TheUnlikelyToad: my life was changed through you
TheUnlikelyToad: you were tha cataylist
TheUnlikelyToad: I have been worried
TheUnlikelyToad: but when I allow for faith more things keep falling into my lap
TheUnlikelyToad: because I open my eyes more
TheUnlikelyToad: instead of stressing
TheUnlikelyToad: besides I am working
TheUnlikelyToad: I work everyday
Kelby: i'm not saying to stress out... that;s just pointless
TheUnlikelyToad: it would be different if I sit my ass at home all tha time
Kelby: right... but it's easy to get sidetracked with other work sometimes..... ya know? You can miss the mark.
Kelby: i'm not saying that's what's happening
TheUnlikelyToad: I know, but I'm just trying to slow down so I don't
TheUnlikelyToad: thats tha point
TheUnlikelyToad: (Roomate) Munoz- "Listen more, talk less"
Kelby: alright
TheUnlikelyToad: its true
Kelby: he did have some good points
Kelby: except the seat belt ****
TheUnlikelyToad: aye
TheUnlikelyToad: lol
Kelby: so what's new with your relationship
Kelby: you haven't stopped having sex because of god have you??? LOL
TheUnlikelyToad: Things have been getting better actually
TheUnlikelyToad: no
Kelby: getting better because of why?
TheUnlikelyToad: that is still crazy at times
TheUnlikelyToad: because I appreciate what I have more
TheUnlikelyToad: and her williness to compromise
TheUnlikelyToad: she'll do just about anything for me
Kelby: you better not underestimate that!
TheUnlikelyToad: yet not put up with ALL my **** either
Kelby: i just hope she is also the girl who pushes you to become more than what you are
TheUnlikelyToad: see.... oh man
TheUnlikelyToad: I wish you could see things how I see it
TheUnlikelyToad: she does
Kelby: that's good
Kelby: i'm just looking out for you
TheUnlikelyToad: there is great synergy there
Kelby: i'm just so suprised from talking to you now and from talking to you before
TheUnlikelyToad: thats why everything in my life is working
TheUnlikelyToad: again, why... because of God in one way or another
Kelby: do you go to church every sunday now too?
TheUnlikelyToad: can't cuz of work
Kelby: but you would
TheUnlikelyToad: just wed night
TheUnlikelyToad: eh
TheUnlikelyToad: I dunno
Kelby: lol
TheUnlikelyToad: ideally yeah
TheUnlikelyToad: but I hate to sing
Kelby: alright.... just as long as you don't start acting the part of imboden
Kelby: god is great... god is good... but you ultimately make the decisions
TheUnlikelyToad: I only talk of it because I hope that one day you are open minded enough to see what he might have is store for you
TheUnlikelyToad: no doubt
TheUnlikelyToad: you aren't on a set track
TheUnlikelyToad: he gave us all free will
TheUnlikelyToad: think of it as a sail boat
TheUnlikelyToad: and like tha wind as I said
Kelby: it's not so much about being open minded.... I've been there before and I've evaluated things from about every perspective. I just didn't come to the same conclusion everyone else has. I believe in god, but I don't really believe much in religion
TheUnlikelyToad: just gentle pushes of wind
TheUnlikelyToad: but ultimately you steer
TheUnlikelyToad: I understand
Kelby: that's probably the best way i have heard someone explain that to me..... ive seen some pretty bad renditions
TheUnlikelyToad: again, if you'd really sit down and look at my life like I have
TheUnlikelyToad: and you of anyone could do that pretty well
Kelby: right
TheUnlikelyToad: you'd realize all this couldn't possibly happen by chance
TheUnlikelyToad: its just too much
TheUnlikelyToad: it blows my mind
Kelby: i think it happened because you are the way you are and I am the way I am and the rest of the world is the way it is
TheUnlikelyToad: its too perfect how everything has fit
Kelby: and we all change one another
Kelby: that's the thing... everything fits perfectly for you.... but there are a ton of people that it doesn't fit well with
Kelby: people murder... people are born with mental illness, people die for no real reason... life can really suck
Kelby: you do your best with the cards you are dealt
Kelby: but that's just what i think
Kelby: and i am only one person
TheUnlikelyToad: ok
TheUnlikelyToad: so you gotta look at why
TheUnlikelyToad: again, because we all have free will
TheUnlikelyToad: they say hell on earth
TheUnlikelyToad: well I think that thats exactly it
TheUnlikelyToad: there is no firery hell
TheUnlikelyToad: its tha hell you feel inside yourself when you know you did wrong
Kelby: well all have free will.... but do we really have free will in the technical sense of the word? We all react to things out of our control... we all pick the best solution to us to react to it. and we all effect other people who in turn do the same thing..... i just see it as cause and effect
TheUnlikelyToad: obviously some are sick in tha head
TheUnlikelyToad: just like so are homosexual
Kelby: ?
TheUnlikelyToad: but I feel in god's eye thats tha small price to pay for not interveining
TheUnlikelyToad: cause and effect is from god working through people
Kelby: what did you mean about homo's
TheUnlikelyToad: its him on earth in a sense
TheUnlikelyToad: I think that they don't choose
Kelby: i was gonna say
Kelby: lol
TheUnlikelyToad: they are born that way
TheUnlikelyToad: but like Hitler
TheUnlikelyToad: I don't think he knew what he was really doing
Kelby: yeah
Kelby: fucked up in the head
TheUnlikelyToad: he was so distrubed
TheUnlikelyToad: that he just did those things without remorse
Kelby: **** man.... i'm just here to enjoy life and help less fortunate others enjoy their lives more
TheUnlikelyToad: I think
TheUnlikelyToad: in God's eye
TheUnlikelyToad: he'll be in heaven with tha rest of us
Kelby: i think so too.... but i don't believe in hell
TheUnlikelyToad: how can you punish someone who knows no better
Kelby: exactly
TheUnlikelyToad: but again, hell is within you
TheUnlikelyToad: on earth
Kelby: i'm pretty happy most of hte time
Kelby: hey man
Kelby: i gotta run
Kelby: i gotta pack my bags for the cabin.
TheUnlikelyToad: ok
TheUnlikelyToad: have fun
Kelby: spending thanksgiving up there
TheUnlikelyToad: thats cool
Kelby: have a great thanksgiving
TheUnlikelyToad: eat BIG
Kelby: HELL YEAH
TheUnlikelyToad: Love you man, take care!

 

[motiv8er]

I am all for a devotional/ ispirational thread. I think I need one quite often. I would look foward to and add whatever comments I could. If you have a guidebook or scripture, share!

 

[TheUnlikelyToad]

I am all for a devotional/ ispirational thread. I think I need one quite often. I would look foward to and add whatever comments I could. If you have a guidebook or scripture, share!

Two books that I've enjoyed and recommend for beginners are:

Introducing the Bible by William Barclay

The Will of God by Leslie D. Weatherhead

These seem very non-denominational and easy to understand. Obviously it is from one persons perspective but I've found both to be very appealing in logic and thats how ones religious beliefs start - interpretation.

 

[SJA]

As you know, I'm not the religious type (although one of my closest friends is a head Pastor.....go figure LOL). But I'll check in here out of curiosity from time to time. I'm sure that this thread will fill up.

 

[TheUnlikelyToad]

As you know, I'm not the religious type (although one of my closest friends is a head Pastor.....go figure LOL). But I'll check in here out of curiosity from time to time. I'm sure that this thread will fill up.

Awesome. You know, just because you don't attend church doesn't mean you can't have a relationship with God. Worship can be done in a variety of ways my friend. Church is just one of them and a big one to most people because they tend to think you can't learn any other way, but in reality you can so long as you make a serious attempt elsewhere. Each of us will experience God differently.

Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, he's working within you. Unless you've lied to me I've witnessed it firsthand. I know I've touched your life just like you've touched mine. You do not shed tears of joy and have compassion for another stranger without tha Holy Spirit's presence in your life. That's exactly how he works, though people. I'm VERY thankful for tha relationship I do have with you. That's why I continue to give praise. God is all around. You can't live a life in which both me and Brian have lived and just chalk it up as dumb luck or chance. Although we don't talk as much as we should I'm willing to bet your life is rather blessed too. It all comes down to whether you want to see it or not.

 

[TheCrownedOne]

Jordan,

I'm placing my response to your comment in the Thanksgiving thread in here to keep the other thread uncluttered. I hope you do not misconstrue the tone of whatever may be said herein as all is said in a friendly air.

You should know firsthand that there is actually little I could contribute to this thread and play it safe. My user title (for now) is "Aberrant Caballero," and while the caballero may be a stretch at times, the aberrant quality fits me to a 'T' most often. Aberrant means,

1. One whose behavior departs substantially from the norm of a group
2. Markedly different from an accepted norm

When it comes to religion, I don't play it safe. I make little effort to avoid stepping on the toes of others' beliefs because I feel the majority of what I believe is correct, and those in disagreement with me stand in the wrong. For example, I feel that only the King James Bible is God's preserved, inspired, inerrant Word in English today. Second, you know full well that we stand in opposition on the matter of Creation and evolution. You attempt to reconcile the two, working to make God's Word agree with science when it should be the other way around. "...yea, let God be true, but every man a liar..." The Bible is the cornerstone of knowledge and wisdom, and all Truth is derived therein. It is completely impossible to truthfully stand upon the Bible and subscribe to any portion of the evolutionary theory of the origin of species.
While what I've said may come across as arrogant, it is not intended to be so. I only subscribe to a belief after a great deal of research, prayer, and weighing of the arguments.

With that being said, I would also like to keep myself out of many issues here because of the vehemence of my arguments. This is not my board and not my place to stand upon my soap box, and I appreciate this board too much to risk offending Erin and the other mods. When appropriate I will make my comments, but until then I'd rather remain on the sidelines.

 

[bigpetefox]

I must admit.. I'm not nearly as deep as you brothers, yet I do have my faith.. This is inspiring to read, especially at this time when I'm feeling like I'm in the dark and alone.. I'll keep my eye on this thread as abit of motivation, and start reading my Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth.. :thumbsup:

 

[TheUnlikelyToad]

With that being said, I would also like to keep myself out of many issues here because of the vehemence of my arguments. This is not my board and not my place to stand upon my soap box, and I appreciate this board too much to risk offending Erin and the other mods. When appropriate I will make my comments, but until then I'd rather remain on the sidelines.

Well, that's entirely up to you. I've never proclaimed to have ALL tha answers, or even MOST of tha answers... but I wish for tha sake of this thread you reconsider and contribute in some manner. I know our view points are very different and thats why I wish you would speak up. Not so much to coral about right and wrongs, but to give those who are just beginning their walk of faith to realize nothing but God's unconditional love is set in stone. That's exactly why there are so many churches out there. Each of them interprets things differently. I know you are more of a Bible literalist. I, on the other hand, am not. This is very evident with me and the Old Testament. I find them to be valuable parables. Stories that have great meaning with sound virtues and morals, but do I take tha word verbatim? No. To my knowledge most if not all of those stories were told before written record and past down from generation to generation. Have you even seen tha movie Big Fish, or played tha telephone game in preschool as a child? Someone may start out saying "tha rose is red" and by tha time it gets passed to tha end of tha line its "there's a red rose wilting on tha green grass". Although tha same in subject matter tha context has changed completely.

Again, these are my own interpretations. Each of us are given tha opportunity to discover for ourselves. Just like you Stephen, I feel I could be putting myself on tha line in doing this. However, without participants his word cannot be spread and lives cannot be enriched in ways he's always intended it to be.

 

[B5150]

Here is a passage that I hold as a personal metaphor and living testimony in and of the transformed life the Lord has blessed me with. For many many years I struggled with all kinds of sin. A lifetime of the same sort of sin. It was as if I were born with these particular predisposition for these specific type of sins. I plead with God to explain to me what I had done, or what my father had done, and why I had to be such a person. They were deeply manifested in my life until one day I was delivered.

Once delivered I have been compelled by the Spirit to share my life, before and after as transparently as I can. To know the depths of my infirmity is to know the height of my delivery to salvation and restoration.

This is an extended quote of what I originally discovered in study, as the more I studied the more scripture was revealed relevent to me and my life and my continued testimony.

John 9:1 thru 10:21

As he passed by, he saw a man blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" Jesus answered, "It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be made manifest in him. We must work the works of him who sent me, while it is day; night comes, when no one can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world." As he said this, he spat on the ground and made clay of the spittle and anointed the man's eyes with the clay, saying to him, "Go, wash in the pool of Silo'am" (which means Sent). So he went and washed and came back seeing. The neighbors and those who had seen him before as a beggar, said, "Is not this the man who used to sit and beg?" 9 Some said, "It is he"; others said, "No, but he is like him." He said, "I am the man." They said to him, "Then how were your eyes opened?" He answered, "The man called Jesus made clay and anointed my eyes and said to me, 'Go to Silo'am and wash'; so I went and washed and received my sight." They said to him, "Where is he?" He said, "I do not know." They brought to the Pharisees the man who had formerly been blind. Now it was a sabbath day when Jesus made the clay and opened his eyes. The Pharisees again asked him how he had received his sight. And he said to them, "He put clay on my eyes, and I washed, and I see." Some of the Pharisees said, "This man is not from God, for he does not keep the sabbath." But others said, "How can a man who is a sinner do such signs?" There was a division among them. So they again said to the blind man, "What do you say about him, since he has opened your eyes?" He said, "He is a prophet." The Jews did not believe that he had been blind and had received his sight, until they called the parents of the man who had received his sight, and asked them, "Is this your son, who you say was born blind? How then does he now see?" His parents answered, "We know that this is our son, and that he was born blind; but how he now sees we do not know, nor do we know who opened his eyes. Ask him; he is of age, he will speak for himself." His parents said this because they feared the Jews, for the Jews had already agreed that if any one should confess him to be Christ, he was to be put out of the synagogue. Therefore his parents said, "He is of age, ask him." So for the second time they called the man who had been blind, and said to him, "Give God the praise; we know that this man is a sinner." He answered, "Whether he is a sinner, I do not know; one thing I know, that though I was blind, now I see." They said to him, "What did he do to you? How did he open your eyes?" He answered them, "I have told you already, and you would not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you too want to become his disciples?" And they reviled him, saying, "You are his disciple, but we are disciples of Moses. We know that God has spoken to Moses, but as for this man, we do not know where he comes from." The man answered, "Why, this is a marvel! You do not know where he comes from, and yet he opened my eyes. We know that God does not listen to sinners, but if any one is a worshiper of God and does his will, God listens to him. Never since the world began has it been heard that any one opened the eyes of a man born blind. If this man were not from God, he could do nothing." They answered him, "You were born in utter sin, and would you teach us?" And they cast him out. Jesus heard that they had cast him out, and having found him he said, "Do you believe in the Son of man?" He answered, "And who is he, sir, that I may believe in him?" Jesus said to him, "You have seen him, and it is he who speaks to you." He said, "Lord, I believe"; and he worshiped him. Jesus said, "For judgment I came into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind." Some of the Pharisees near him heard this, and they said to him, "Are we also blind?" Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no guilt; but now that you say, 'We see,' your guilt remains. "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber; but he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the gatekeeper opens; the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers." This figure Jesus used with them, but they did not understand what he was saying to them. So Jesus again said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before me are thieves and robbers; but the sheep did not heed them. I am the door; if any one enters by me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly. I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. He who is a hireling and not a shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. He flees because he is a hireling and cares nothing for the sheep. I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me, as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd. For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life, that I may take it again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again; this charge I have received from my Father." There was again a division among the Jews because of these words. Many of them said, "He has a demon, and he is mad; why listen to him?" Others said, "These are not the sayings of one who has a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?"

 

[B5150]

This is very evident with me and the Old Testament. I find them to be valuable parables. Stories that have great meaning with sound virtues and morals, but do I take tha word verbatim? No. To my knowledge most if not all of those stories were told before written record and past down from generation to generation.

This is a case that is so often argued over and over regarding the Old and New testiments and the laws held with. The Old testiment was the old covenant that God had with man. No matter the covenant man failed to fulfill their end of the deal.

Jesus Christ represented a New Covenant. The Old covenant was no longer valid because the New Covenant superceded it. Jesus said; "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one can come to the Father but through me".

The Old testiment holds some very very important truths, messages and principles that we should embrace. But at the end of the day, we are all sinners saved by the only acceptable means possible; the cleansing blood of the Christ Jesus.

 

[x_muscle]

Awesome idea........ Although i dont have a particular testimony now, i like to learn from other testimony and spiritual experience.

 

[TheCrownedOne]

Jordan, wrt The Old Testament:

I understand where you're coming from, but you place the limitations of man upon God. You have to operate under the wisdom that God is able to do anything He chooses. He promised to preserve His Word unto all generations (Psalms 12:7). So using the rationalization that they could not be His exact Words because they were passed down by man from generation to generation is a fallacy. It need not make sense to us, who rightfully know nothing. The power and wisdom of God surpasses all that we can understand.
And, like I said, I will make comments here and there, but will choose my battle wisely so as not to offend.

2 Timothy
3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[SJA]

Awesome. You know, just because you don't attend church doesn't mean you can't have a relationship with God. Worship can be done in a variety of ways my friend. Church is just one of them and a big one to most people because they tend to think you can't learn any other way, but in reality you can so long as you make a serious attempt elsewhere. Each of us will experience God differently.

Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, he's working within you. Unless you've lied to me I've witnessed it firsthand. I know I've touched your life just like you've touched mine. You do not shed tears of joy and have compassion for another stranger without tha Holy Spirit's presence in your life. That's exactly how he works, though people. I'm VERY thankful for tha relationship I do have with you. That's why I continue to give praise. God is all around. You can't live a life in which both me and Brian have lived and just chalk it up as dumb luck or chance. Although we don't talk as much as we should I'm willing to bet your life is rather blessed too. It all comes down to whether you want to see it or not.

Good point Jordan.....look at you all grown up :thumbsup: You make me and Brian proud my man

 

[milwood]

I follow what I believe to be a very Spiritual path, although it is not necessarily religious per se; that is, I believe that it is my course in life to act as Jesus did--love my brothers (and sisters) as myself, do unto others as I would have them do unto me, strive to serve, not BE served, forgive, and grow in spirit. I believe that THIS ACTION and way of living is the best evidence of who I am, rather than particular identity (as a Christian, Jew, Buddhis, Hindu etc.) I also believe that there are many paths to God, none more valid than any other, and that the TRUE nature of God is the spirit or force of love which permeates the entire Universe, and also inhabits each and every one of us at all times. If we follow that idea, we can feel that force of love, light, joy and spirit within our everyday lives. If we choose to NOT do so, we will not feel it (this is what I belive to be the free choice we are given by God (or this spiritual divine and intelligent force of love). There are many roads to the Divine, and the God I know does not judge or condemn, neither does He discriminate. I believe that when Christ said that "the only way to the Father is through me" he was speaking (as he so often did) in a parable, meaning that to get to heaven, eternity, enlightenment, God, or whatever you choose to call it, you do so via Christ consciousness, or by BECOMING Christlike, by learning to BE loving, forgiving, unselfish, caring, and so on. I do not believe that an ever-loving non-judgmental, all-forgiving, caring and serving Christ meant (as some seem to insist, in a close-minded way) that if you don't become a Christian and worship me in this way, you are excluded from divinity. Thanks for opening up this discussion/thread!

 

[DmitryWI]

This is great thread and I will add to this thread just not now.

 

[B5150]

milwood,

You express you spiritual values and path in a very coherent way that is not at all contrary to the faith of any other God conscious faith. But I do propose a question, which your explaination did inspire. If you propose to emulate a Christ-like nature or character, would not this be considered Christ-ian. I say so, as a Christian who desires to be Christ-like as well as you, but has to live with the label or stereo type of a "Christian" and bear the burdened of the sometimes negative conotations that comes with it, that at times was earned by those who are an overzealous and hyper-literal perversion of what the Christ would have our practical application reflect.

I enjoy your fellowship.

 

[B5150]

Jordan, wrt The Old Testament:

I understand where you're coming from, but you place the limitations of man upon God. You have to operate under the wisdom that God is able to do anything He chooses. He promised to preserve His Word unto all generations (Psalms 12:7). So using the rationalization that they could not be His exact Words because they were passed down by man from generation to generation is a fallacy. It need not make sense to us, who rightfully know nothing. The power and wisdom of God surpasses all that we can understand.

2 Timothy
3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Jordan, I'm gonna have to let this man speak for me on this one as he does present it very well in the above. We as Christian are to be completely convinced and believe that the word of God in days of old and new testiment is a divine word from His very mouth. There is much that we may not comprehend and yet need to still recognize that it is His word. To dismiss it because it seems to have no practical application in our current day lives or seems impracticle or was some sort of an analogy deprives us from growing our faith and understanding of Him. The word of God is the word of God. We are the part that has the communication breakdown...not Him. We are to study and pray and fellowship for the unveiling of the truth in His word for us to see.

And, like I said, I will make comments here and there, but will choose my battle wisely so as not to offend.

Stephen, I would like to remind you of the word that is also contained in 1Corinthians 13. This is not a battle. Paul himself had to deal with many different doctorines in the new church and their 'personal' deviations. We desire to share the truth of the word and let the Holy Spirit reveal it for the eyes of their hearts to see. I know both of your hearts (as much as cyber will allow) and have a desire for our Love to be a demonstration of true Christ-like Christianity. I love you both.

 

[TheUnlikelyToad]

Jordan, I'm gonna have to let this man speak for me on this one as he does present it very well in the above. We as Christian are to be completely convinced and believe that the word of God in days of old and new testiment is a divine word from His very mouth. There is much that we may not comprehend and yet need to still recognize that it is His word. To dismiss it because it seems to have no practical application in our current day lives or seems impracticle or was some sort of an analogy deprives us from growing our faith and understanding of Him. The word of God is the word of God. We are the part that has the communication breakdown...not Him. We are to study and pray and fellowship for the unveiling of the truth in His word for us to see.

Wow, this is good stuff and on Thanksgiving to boot. The idea of a communication breakdown is a very valid point and I can't entirely rule something of that nature out. In comparision to tha Lord almighty, we are but feeble-minded individuals. Sometimes things work so perfectly that its easy to forget that we do have free will. From my standpoint just because All scripture is given by inspiration of God, does not necessarily mean verbatim. Through free will lends tha possibility of interpretation. Do I think he had a hand in it? Sure... but weren't we also created in God's image? Yet somehow each and every one of us looks different. What if Adam represented, instead of one man, thousands? Or if Eve represented all of womankind? How would one know if tha universe was created in six days instead of seven... and would it matter? For me, it certainly wouldn't diminish my appreciation. Remember at one time we also thought tha world was flat, in fact, some churches believed this too. It wasn't until we discovered that it was round, that our whole concept of tha word around us changed. In many ways Christ and his birth changed tha game. It's like those who believe we must go on missions and 'save' third world countries 'not in tha know'. Not that there is anything wrong with missionary work, but to think that if we don't reach them they'll go straight to hell without collecting $200 is ludacris. Much like poverty stricken countries, before tha coming of Christ and tha written record, tha concept of tha world around us was far different because we had nothing to base concrete ideology off of.

Again, these are just my thoughts. I believe both Brian and Steven bring up good points to consider as well.

 

[TheUnlikelyToad]

milwood,

You express you spiritual values and path in a very coherent way that is not at all contrary to the faith of any other God conscious faith. But I do propose a question, which your explaination did inspire. If you propose to emulate a Christ-like nature or character, would not this be considered Christ-ian. I say so, as a Christian who desires to be Christ-like as well as you, but has to live with the label or stereo type of a "Christian" and bear the burdened of the sometimes negative conotations that comes with it, that at times was earned by those who are an overzealous and hyper-literal perversion of what the Christ would have our practical application reflect.

I enjoy your fellowship.

From my POV, I would certainly think so.

... But dang B, you think you can dumb it down a little? I read this post twice and still had to get my girlfriend to translate it for me. :blink:

 

[B5150]

It's like those who believe we must go on missions and 'save' third world countries 'not in tha know'.

His coming did change everything.

The Great Commmision: Matthew 28:18-20
And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."

 

[B5150]

From my POV, I would certainly think so.

... But dang B, you think you can dumb it down a little? I read this post twice and still had to get my girlfriend to translate it for me. :blink:

Whqat I meant, and surely you got, was do some avoid the title or label of "Christian" because of the bad name some Christians have given Christianity. But you knew what I meant right :whip:

 

[poopypants]

Wow this is amazing and inspirng to see a thread like this pop up. I have quite enjoyed seeing quotes in sigs. and board names all denoting faith in God and his son Jesus Christ but I thank you for having the courage to bring this out in the open give others the chance to hear your testimonies and hopefully help others gain theirs.

I am so happy to see this strength here in the board and although some veiws may not be the exact same as my own and i wish for the life of me and for the sake of their eternal salvation that the did share them i respect these veiws and feel that almost every religion has some truth contained therin.

Toad for you brother id like to chime in with B and TCO in hoping you might try searching the old testament more and gain a testimony of its truth and reality. The old testement is just as valuable and important as the the new testement of christ alike, as it is specifically a testement of christ. throughout isaiah there are prophicies testifieing of christ, his purpose and his coming to redeem all mankind from their sins. there are also many exapmles of faith and likenesses of his coming such as Moses. i hope this helps direct your studies and help you gain a testimony of its truth and the fact that these events actually happened. please feel free to do a search of the dead sea scrolls wich were found in egypt and dated to christs era and contain a more detailed version of the creation, adam and eves time in the garden of eden and the fall, and the first few books of the old testement. the fact that these existed in christs time would lead me to belive that written record of these event have existed for quite possibly all of time throughout the flood and coming of christ up to our present day.

I hope that you all take this following testimony for what it is and respect my faith as i am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, or better known as a Mormon and for some reason or another our religion has been persecuted and looked down on and considered by many to not be christian. Well i am here to denounce these misunderstandings and let you know i have a faith so strong im breaching knowledge in my lord and savior jesus christ and his atonement. I belive that joseph smith was a prophet of god and restored the fullness of the gospel as it was organized in jesus time to the latter days. I belive that there is a prophet lead and inspired by God on the earth today. And i belive the Book of Mormon to be the word of God and another testament of jesus Christ. If only one would have the courage to pick up the book of mormon with an open and undoubting mind searching with prayerfull intent and an honest heart that theywould find it to be another testament of God and Jesus Christ and his mission here on earth. at the very least i feel that your heart will be touched by the spirit and you will be uplifted by reading this testament of christ and his coming after the resurection to the americas. I also belive the bible to be the word of God as long as translated corretly (kings james vers.) and the Book of Mormon goes hand in hand with its teachings nothing wavering.

Toad i would like to thank you for offering me this opportunity to bare my testimony to you my brothers and would like to share in the encouragment to others to do the same. I hope you all have had a happy thanksgiving and a spiritually uplifting read.

 

[milwood]

The labels can definitely get us into trouble. If I say I'm Christian, that would (as stated) reflect the nature of my belief(s) in many ways. I believe that Christ most accurately exemplifies what I believe to be the Godlike qualities for which I would strive. Unfortunately, however, many Christians (whom I love and respect in many ways) feel that their Christian faith makes them "better than" everyone else--the "chosen", exclusive members of the club, the ones who will be saved while everyone else (even the good, Godlike, loving and caring, kind, forgiving, peaceful people of the world) are to burn in hell because they simply differ slightly in their philosophy of spirituality, or were raised in different times or with varied orthodoxy, etc. This represents the most unenlightened, close-minded thinking I can imagine. To suggest that God, which is represented as Universal Love, would "think" in such a manner is preposterous--yet I know some who "believe" in just this way!

In fact, I have a good friend who believes that unless you time your "asking of forgiveness" just right, you too shall perish in the pit; that is, we all go through life sinning (it's the nature of human existence) yet if you ask God's forgiveness, you are forgiven and will go to Heaven. So basically, you can live like a complete asshole-cheat on your wife, greedily hurt others, seklfishly serve yourself, but keep asking forgiveness, and you will enter the Kingdom. You could live a kind, selfless life, however, striving to be a devout and compassionate and loving human--but if you don't beg for forgiveness at precisely the right time before you die, you too shall burn for eternity!! Well, as you can imagine, his credibility is not very good with me. Likewise, when I hear some of the banterings of, say, our favorite televangelists, I am pretty put off.

As far as the "what God is and isn't" thing; I do not believe that God "thinks" at all--in the manner that some suggest. God is Love--an all encompasing "force" , a spirit of divinity and unity, limitless and all powerful. God is not a character on a mountain top somewhere, with a long white beard and robe. God, simply, is Love. Love does not think, Love just is. Love does not sit on a throne. Love just is. Love is not separate from us. Love just is--it is in every one of us at all times, if we choose to believe it. It is all there is!

 

[TheUnlikelyToad]

His coming did change everything.

The Great Commmision: Matthew 28:18-20
And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."

Yes, I agree. I'm not questioning whether we should or not. Rather I'm questioning God's own willingness to have mercy on those we cannot reach. Surely there will be some who'll get left behind. Not because of their unwillingness to accept God, but because no one planted tha seed to begin with. Tha world is a vast place. Even with tha best intentions I sincerely doubt we could possibly reach everyone at all times. Therefore, with me, it all comes down to my personal interpretation (there's that word again ) of God. I see our Lord much like I've seen my own earthy father. For tha longest time growing up as a child, I saw him as a Christ-like figure (Superman if you will). In my eye he could do no wrong, he was untouchable. Yet as a child and growing up as an adult there were times where I got myself into trouble. Punishments were in order, but it was how he punished me and tha type of person that he is/was that I began to realize what unconditional love was all about. No matter what I did, I was still his son. He still wanted tha best for me, and tha punishment never fit tha crime. So as you can see these enviromental factors helped to jumpstart my faith from a very early age. This is also in stark contrast to someone who's childhood may not have been tha greatest, or who's father was absent from their live. Worse yet, someone who was tha receiver of daily beatings. One can only imagine what this persons image of God and understanding of unconditional love (or lack there of) looks like. Because of something of this nature many Christians and churches do use scare tactics in an effort to convince and save people from a fiery grave, and subsequently turn people off in tha process. I believe however, this isn't what God intended at all. Instead we should be giving praise because we want to, because we see how he's effected our lives and what he's done for us. Not because we fear tha alternative.

Milwood, I'm glad you've joined this conversation in more ways than one. You have lots of knowledge to be shared. As I've said before and I'll said it again - If there is a hell, you'll see me there...

Poopy (lol, thats funny to type), thanks for your input as well. I'm going to try and read up on tha dead sea scrolls and Joseph Smith.

 

[toughchick401]

I see this thread and think, is god forgiving? I know stupid thought right? I agree...

In my experience god has not been very kind. I lost my sister when I was 14, she was murdered. I don't say this looking for pity, or anything else this is the facts and how I see them. Since that time I have choosen my own path, to be someone i would want her to be proud of, I choose teaching, special needs children and I love it. I coach for the special olympics, as well as give my time to charitys locally, I assist with the butterfly ball ( a lupus event to raise $ for research) and i give my time once monthly answering phones at the rape crisis center. All things I belive in.
Yet I have to think god holds a grudge, when I lost my sister, i begged god everynight to let me die, to give me some illness that would let me see my sister one more time, to tell her how much I love her and that I was so sorry.( we had a fight the last time i saw her when I got up in the morning she was gone, later to be discovered she was murdered).
Is god now giving me what I asked for? I go throught stomach cancer yrs back, now lupus, and more recently, another cancer issue. And i am healthy, I work out, teach spin when I can, eat ok, but I am not a junk food junkie, I am not a coach potatoe, it dosent make sense! I have lost my hair, ( it fell out so i shaved it like GI Jane), I have lost friends, and I have pushed loved ones away.I wont let anyone stick around and see me go throught this, because there loyal. It isent right.I have decided whats meant to be will be, for now school, teaching, coaching and attempting my masters before I die are my goals. And to enjoy my 4 yr old nephew whom i adore.

So I ask is god now giving me what I wished for over 20 yrs ago? I wish I belived that god was forgiving.....but my evidence proves otherwise

 

[TheCrownedOne]

Wow, this is good stuff and on Thanksgiving to boot. The idea of a communication breakdown is a very valid point and I can't entirely rule something of that nature out. In comparision to tha Lord almighty, we are but feeble-minded individuals. Sometimes things work so perfectly that its easy to forget that we do have free will. From my standpoint just because All scripture is given by inspiration of God, does not necessarily mean verbatim.

Matthew
4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Through free will lends tha possibility of interpretation.

And also the possibility of error.

Do I think he had a hand in it? Sure... but weren't we also created in God's image? Yet somehow each and every one of us looks different.

You're being far too specific. Generally, every human being is identical. We each bear individuality, but we remain in His image, His likeness.

What if Adam represented, instead of one man, thousands? Or if Eve represented all of womankind?

Romans
5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

1 Corinthians
15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

1 Timothy
2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

From Adam on, the bible records the geneology of mankind. There is no room for private interpretation.

Genesis
3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

How would one know if tha universe was created in six days instead of seven... and would it matter?

1 Corinthians
14:33 For God is not the author of confusion...

Leaning upon the idea of the Bible not being the verbatim Word of God becomes a slippery slope. God would not have some to understand while others founder in confusion over the private interpretation of His Word. Take His Word as His Word, not some simulacrum thereof.

For me, it certainly wouldn't diminish my appreciation. Remember at one time we also thought tha world was flat, in fact, some churches believed this too.

Some men in churches believed that the earth was flat. The constituents of a church do not reflect the wisdom and authority of God; they should, but unfortunately they do not. Only God's Word can represent God's Word adequately.

It wasn't until we discovered that it was round, that our whole concept of tha word around us changed. In many ways Christ and his birth changed tha game.

He changed it in every way.

It's like those who believe we must go on missions and 'save' third world countries 'not in tha know'. Not that there is anything wrong with missionary work, but to think that if we don't reach them they'll go straight to hell without collecting $200 is ludacris.

Romans
1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Mark
16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
It is absolutely our responsibility to go into all the world to tell every living soul about the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. I do not believe that God makes special appropriations for those in third world countries who have not heard the Gospel. They can choose to believe in whomever created the world around them; they are without excuse.

Much like poverty stricken countries, before tha coming of Christ and tha written record, tha concept of tha world around us was far different because we had nothing to base concrete ideology off of.
Again, these are just my thoughts. I believe both Brian and Steven bring up good points to consider as well.

More on the authority and relevance of the Old Testament:

Gen. 3:15.....He will bruise Satan's head.....Heb. 2:14, 1 Jn. 3:18
Gen. 9:26,27...The God of Shem will be the Son of Shem...Lu. 3:36
Gen. 12:3...As Abraham's seed,will bless all nations...Acts. 3:25,26
Gen. 12:7...The Promise made to Abraham's Seed...Gal. 3:16
Gen. 14:18...A priest after Melchizedek...Heb. 6:20
Gen. 14:18........A King also........Heb. 7:2
Gen. 14:18...The Last Supper foreshadowed...Mt. 26:26-29
Gen. 17:19.......The Seed of Isaac.......Rom. 9:7
Gen. 22:8...The Lamb of God promised...Jn. 1:29
Gen. 22:18...As Isaac's seed, will bless all nations...Gal. 3:16
Gen.26:2-5..The Seed of Isaac promised as the Redeemer..Heb.11:18
Gen. 49:10...The time of His coming...Lu. 2:1-7; Gal. 4:4
Gen. 49:10.......The Seed of Judah.......Lu. 3:33
Gen. 49:10......Called Shiloh or One Sent......Jn. 17:3
Gen. 49:10...To come before Judah lost identity...Jn. 11:47-52
Gen. 49:10...To Him shall the obedience of the people be...Jn. 10:16
Ex. 3:13,14........The Great "I Am".......Jn. 4:26
Ex. 12:5...A Lamb without blemish...1 Pet. 1:19
Ex. 12:13...The blood of the Lamb saves from wrath...Rom. 5:8
Ex. 12:21-27...Christ is our Passover...1 Cor. 5;7
Ex. 12:46...Not a bone of the Lamb to be broken...Jn. 19:31-36
Ex. 15:2...His exaltation predicted as Yeshua...Acts 7:55,56
Ex. 15:11...His Character-Holiness...Luke 1:35; Acts 4:27
Ex. 17:6...The Spiritual Rock of Israel...1 Cor. 10;4
Ex. 33:19...His Character-Merciful...Lu. 1:72
Lev.14:11..The leper cleansed-Sign to priesthood..Lu.5:12-14; Acts 6:7
Lev.16:15-17...Prefigures Christ's once-for-all death...Heb. 9:7-14
Lev.16:27...Suffering outside the Camp...Mt. 27:33; Heb. 13:11, 12
Lev.17:11...The Blood-the life of the flesh...Mt. 26;28; Mk. 10:45
Lev.17:11...It is the blood that makes atonement...1 Jn. 3:14-18
Lev.23:36-37...The Drink-offering: "If any man thirst." ..Jn. 19:31-36
Num. 9:12...Not a bone of Him broken...John 19:31-36
Num. 21:9...The serpent on a pole-Christ lifted up...Jn. 3:14-18
Num. 24:17...Time: "I shall see him, but not now."...Gal. 4:4
Deut. 18:15..."This is of a truth that prophet."...Jn. 6:14
Deut. 18:15-16..."Had ye believed Moses, ye would believe me."...Jn. 5:45-47
Deut. 18:18...Sent by the Father to speak His word...Jn. 8:28, 29
Deut. 18:19...Whoever will not hear must bear his sin...Jn. 12:15,
Deut. 21:23...Cursed is he that hangs on a tree...Gal. 3:10-13
Ruth 4:4-9...Christ, our kinsman, has redeemed us...Eph. 1:3-7
1 Sam. 2:10...Shall be an anointed King to the Lord...Mt. 28:18; Jn. 12:15
2 Sam. 7:12...David's Seed...Mt. 1:1
2 Sam. 7:14a...The Son of God... Lu. 1:32
2 Sam. 7:16...David's house established forever...Lu. 3:31; Rev. 22:16
2 Ki. 2:11...The bodily ascension to heaven illustrated...Lu. 24:51
1 Chr. 17:11...David's Seed...Mt. 1:1; 9:27
1 Chr. 17:12, 13a...To reign on David's throne forever...Lu. 1:32, 33
1 Chr. 17:13a..."I will be His Father, He...my Son."...Heb. 1:5
Job 19:23-27...The Resurrection predicted...Jn. 5:24-29
Psa. 2:1-3...The enmity of kings foreordained...Acts 4:25-28
Psa. 2:2...To own the title, Anointed (Christ)...Acts 2:36
Ps. 2:6...His Character-Holiness...Jn. 8:46; Rev. 3:7
Ps. 2:6...To own the title King...Mt. 2:2
Ps. 2:7...Declared the Beloved Son...Mt. 3;17
Psa. 2:7, 8...The Crucifixion and Resurrection intimated...Acts 13:29-33
Psa. 2:12...Life comes through faith in Him...Jn. 20:31
Psa. 8:2...The mouths of babes perfect His praise...Mt. 21:16
Psa. 8:5, 6...His humiliation and exaltation...Lu. 24:50-53; 1 Cor. 15:27
Psa. 16:10...Was not to see corruption...Acts 2:31
Psa. 16:9-11...Was to arise from the dead...Jn. 20:9
Psa. 17;15...The resurrection predicted...Lu. 24:6
Psa. 22:1...Forsaken because of sins of others...2 Cor. 5:21
Psa. 22:1...Words spoken from Calvary, "My God..." Mk. 15:34
Psa. 22:2...Darkness upon Calvary...Mt. 27:45
Psa. 22:7...They shoot out the lip and shake the head...Mt. 27:39
Psa. 22:8.."He trusted in God, let Him deliver Him"...Mt. 27:43
Psa. 22:9......Born the Saviour......Lu. 2:7
Psa. 22:14...Died of a broken (ruptured)heart...Jn. 19:34
Psa. 22:14,15...Suffered agony on Calvary...Mk. 15:34-37
Psa. 22:15........He thirsted........Jn. 19:28
Psa. 22:16...They pierced His hands and His feet....Jn. 19:34,37;20:27
Psa. 22:17,18...Stripped Him before the stares of men...Lu. 23:34,35
Psa. 22:18.....They parted His garments.....Jn. 19:23,24
Psa. 22:20,21...He committed Himself to God...Lu.23:46
Psa. 22:20,21..Satanic power bruising the Redeemer's heel..Heb. 2:14
Psa. 22:22.....His Resurrection declared.....Jn. 20:17
Psa. 22:27...He shall be the governor of the nations...Col 1:16
Psa. 22:31......"It is finished"......Jn. 19:30
Psa. 23:1...."I am the Good Shephard"....Jn. 10:11
Psa. 24:3......His exaltation predicted......Acts 1:11; Phil. 2:9
Psa. 30:3......His resurrection predicted......Acts 2:32
Psa. 31:5..."Into thy hands I commit my spirit"...Lu. 23:46
Psa. 31:11...His acquaintances fled from Him...Mk. 14:50
Psa. 31:13...They took counsel to put Him to death...Jn. 11:53
Psa. 31:14,15..." He trusted in God, let Him deliver him"...Mt. 27:43
Psa. 34:20.....Not a bone of Him broken.....Jn 19:31-36
Psa. 35:11....False witnesses rose up against Him....Mt. 26:59
Psa. 35:19...He was hated without a cause...Jn. 15:25
Psa. 38:11.....His friends stood afar off.....Lu. 23:49
Psa. 40:2-5...The joy of His resurrection predicted...Jn. 20:20
Psa. 40:6-8....His delight-the will of the Father....Jn. 4:34
Psa. 40:9....He was to preach the Righteousness in Israel....Mt. 4:17
Psa. 40:14...Confronted by adversaries in the Garden...Jn. 18:4-6
Psa. 41:9.....Betrayed by a familiar friend.....Jn. 13:18
Psa. 45:2...Words of Grace come from His lips...Lu. 4:22
Psa. 45:6...To own the title, God or Elohim...Heb. 1:8
Psa. 45:7...A special anointing by the Holy Spirit...Mt.3:16; Heb.1:9
Psa. 45:7,8...Called the Christ (Messiah or Anointed)...Lu. 2:11
Psa. 55:12-14...Betrayed by a friend, not an enemy...Jn. 13:18
Psa. 55:15...Unrepentant death of the Betrayer...Mt. 27:3-5; Acts 1:16-19
Psa. 68:18...To give gifts to men...Eph. 4:7-16
Psa. 68:18...Ascended into Heaven...Lu. 24:51
Psa. 69:4...Hated without a cause...Jn. 15:25
Psa. 69:8...A stranger to own brethren...Lu. 8;20,21
Psa. 69:9...Zealous for the Lord's House...Jn. 2:17
Psa. 69:14-20...Messiah's anguish of soul before crucifixion...Mt. 26:36-45
Psa. 69:20..."My soul is exceeding sorrowful."...Mt. 26:38
Psa. 69:21...Given vinegar in thirst...Mt. 27:34
Psa. 69:26...The Saviour given and smitten by God...Jn. 17:4; 18:11
Psa. 72:10,11...Great persons were to visit Him...Mt. 2:1-11
Psa. 72:16...The corn of wheat to fall into the Ground...Jn. 12:24
Psa. 72:17...His name, Yinon, will produce offspring...Jn. 1:12,13
Psa. 72:17...All nations shall be blessed by Him...Acts 2:11,12,41
Psa. 78:1.2...He would teach in parables...Mt. 13:34-35
Psa. 78:2b...To speak the Wisdom of God with authority...Mt. 7:29
Psa. 88:8...They stood afar off and watched...Lu. 23:49
Psa. 89:27...Emmanuel to be higher than earthly kings...Lu. 1:32,33
Psa. 89:35-37...David's Seed, throne, kingdom endure forever...Lu. 1:32,33
Psa. 89:36-37...His character-Faithfulness...Rev. 1:5
Psa. 90:2...He is from everlasting (Micah 5:2)...Jn. 1:1
Psa. 91:11,12...Identified as Messianic; used to tempt Christ...Lu. 4;10,11
Psa. 97:9...His exaltation predicted...Acts 1:11;Eph. 1:20
Psa. 100:5...His character-Goodness...Mt. 19:16,17
Psa. 102:1-11...The Suffering and Reproach of Calvary...Jn. 21:16-30
Psa. 102:25-27...Messiah is the Preexistent Son...Heb. 1:10-12
Psa. 109:25...Ridiculed...Mt. 27:39
Psa. 110:1...Son of David...Mt. 22:43
Psa. 110:1...To ascend to the right-hand of the Father...Mk.16:19
Psa. 110:1...David's son called Lord...Mt. 22:44,45
Psa. 110:4...A priest after Melchizedek's order...Heb. 6:20
Psa. 112:4...His character-Compassionate, Gracious, et al... Mt. 9;36
Psa. 118:17,18...Messiah's Resurrection assured...Lu. 24:5-7;1 Cor. 15:20
Psa. 118:22,23...The rejected stone is Head of the corner...Mt. 21:42,43
Psa. 118:26a...The Blessed One presented to Israel...Mt. 21:9
Psa. 118:26b...To come while Temple standing...Mt. 21;12-15
Psa. 132:11...The Seed of David(the fruit of His Body)...Lu. 1:32
Psa. 138:1-6...The supremacy of David's Seed amazes kings... Mt. 2:2-6
Psa. 147:3,6...The earthly ministry of Christ described...Lu. 4:18
Psa. 1:23...He will send the Spirit of God... Jn. 16;7
Song. 5;16...The altogether lovely One...Jn. 1:17
Isa. 6:1...When Isaiah saw His glory... Jn. 12:40-41
Isa. 6:9-10...Parables fall on deaf ears...Mt. 13:13-15
Isa. 6:9-12...Blinded to Christ and deaf to His words...Acts. 28:23-29
Isa. 7:14...To be born of a virgin...Lu. 1:35
Isa. 7:14...To be Emmanuel-God with us... Mt. 1:18-23
Isa. 8:8...Called Emmanuel...Mt. 28:20
Isa. 8:14...A stone of stumbling, a Rock of offense... 1 Pet. 2:8
Isa. 9:1,2...His ministry to begin in Galilee...Mt. 4:12-17
Isa. 9:6...A child born-Humanity...Lu. 1:31
Isa. 9:6...A Son given-Deity...Lu. 1:32; Jn. 1;14; 1 Tim. 3:16
Isa. 9:6...Declared to be the Son of God with power... Rom. 1:3,4
Isa. 9:6...The Wonderful One, Peleh...Lu. 4:22
Isa. 9:6...The Counsellor, Yaatz...Mt. 13:54
Isa. 9:6...The Mighty God, El Gibor...Mt. 11:20
Isa. 9:6...The Everlasting Father, Avi Adth...Jn. 8:58
Isa. 9:6...The Prince of Peace, Sar Shalom...Jn . 16:33
Isa. 9:7...To establish an everlasting kingdom...Lu. 1:32-33
Isa. 9:7...His Character-Just...Jn. 5:30
Isa. 9:7...No end to his Government, Throne, and Peace...Lu. 1:32-33
Isa. 11:1...Called a Nazarene-the Branch, Netzer...Mt. 2:23
Isa. 11:1...A rod out of Jesse-Son of Jesse...Lu. 3:23,32
Isa. 11:2...The anointed One by the Spirit...Mt. 3;16,17
Isa. 11:2...His Character-Wisdom, Understanding, et al....Jn. 4:4-26
Isa. 11:4...His Character-Truth...Jn. 14:6
Isa. 11:10...The Gentiles seek Him...Jn. 12:18-21
Isa. 12:2...Called Jesus-Yeshua...Mt. 1:21
Isa. 25:8...The Resurrection predicted...I Cor. 15:54
Isa. 26:19...His power of Resurrection predicted...Jn. 11:43,44
Isa. 28:16...The Messiah is the precious corner stone...Acts 4:11,12
Isa. 29:13...He indicated hypocritical obedience to His Word...Mt. 15:7-9
Isa. 29:14...The wise are confounded by the Word...I Cor. 1:18-31
Isa. 32:2...A Refuge-A man shall be a hiding place...Mt. 23:37
Isa. 35:4...He will come and save you...Mt. 1:21
Isa. 35:5...To have a ministry of miracles...Mt. 11:4-6
Isa. 40:3,4...Preceded by forerunner...Jn. 1:23
Isa. 40:9..."Behold your God."...Jn. 1:36;19:14
Isa. 40:11...A shepherd-compassionatelife-giver...Jn. 10:10-18
Isa. 42:1-4...The Servant-as a faithful, patient redeemer... Mt.12:18-21
Isa. 42:2...Meek and lowly... Mt. 11:28-30
Isa. 42:3...He brings hope for the hopeless... Jn. 4
Isa. 42:4...The nations shall wait on His teachings... Jn. 12:20-26
Isa. 42:6...The Light (salvation) of the Gentiles...Lu. 2:32
Isa. 42:1,6...His is a Worldwide compassion... Mt. 28:19,20
Isa. 42:7...Blind eyes opened... Jn. 9:25-38
Isa. 43:11...He is the only Saviour... Acts. 4:12
Isa. 44:3...He will send the Spirit of God... Jn. 16:7,13
Isa. 45:23...He will be the Judge... Jn. 5:22;Rom. 14:11
Isa. 48:12...The First and the Last...Jn. 1:30;Rev. 1:8,17
Isa. 48:17...He came as a Teacher...Jn. 3:2
Isa. 49:1...Called from the womb-His humanity...Mt. 1:18
Isa. 49:5...A Servant from the womb...Lu. 1:31;Phil. 2:7
Isa. 49:6...He is Salvation for Israel...Lu. 2:29-32
Isa. 49:6...He is the Light of the Gentiles...Acts 13:47
Isa. 49:6...He is Salvation unto the ends of the earth... Acts 15:7-18
Isa. 49:7...He is despised of the Nation... Jn. 8:48-49
Isa. 50:3...Heaven is clothed in black at His humiliation... Lu. 23:44,45
Isa. 50:4...He is a learned counsellor for the weary... Mt. 11:28,29
Isa. 50:5...The Servant bound willingly to obedience... Mt. 26:39
Isa. 50:6a..."I gave my back to the smiters."... Mt. 27:26
Isa. 50:6b...He was smitten on the cheeks... Mt. 26:67
Isa. 50:6c...He was spat upon... Mt. 27:30
Isa. 52:7...To publish good tidings of peace... Lu. 4:14,15
Isa. 52:13...The Servant exalted...Acts 1:8-11; Eph. 1:19-22
Isa. 52:13...Behold, My Servant... Mt. 17:5; Phil. 2:5-8
Isa. 52:14...The Servant shockingly abused... Lu. 18:31-34; Mt. 26:67,68
Isa. 52:15...Nations startled by message of the Servant... Rom. 15:18-21
Isa. 52:15...His blood shed to make atonement for all... Rev. 1:5
Isa. 53:1...His people would not believe Him... Jn. 12:37-38
Isa. 53:2a...He would grow up in a poor family.... Lu. 2:7
Isa. 53:2b...Appearance of an ordinary man... Phil. 2:7-8
Isa. 53:3a...Despised.... Lu. 4:28-29
Isa. 53:3b...Rejected... Mt. 27:21-23
Isa. 53:3c...Great sorrow and grief... Lu. 19:41-42
Isa. 53:3d...Men hide from being associated with Him... Mk. 14:50-52
Isa. 53:4a...He would have a healing ministry... Lu. 6:17-19
Isa. 53:4b...He would bear the sins of the world... 1 Pet. 2:24
Isa. 53:4c...Thought to be cursed by God... Mt. 27:41-43
Isa. 53:5a...Bears penalty for mankind's transgressions... Lu. 23:33
Isa. 53:5b...His sacrifice would provide peace between man and God... Col. 1:20
Isa. 53:5c...His back would be whipped... Mt. 27:26
Isa. 53:6a...He would be the sin-bearer for all mankind...Gal. 1:4
Isa. 53:6b...God's will that He bear sin for all mankind... 1 Jn. 4:10
Isa. 53:7a...Oppressed and afflicted... Mt. 27:27-31
Isa. 53:7b...Silent before his accusers... Mt. 27:12-14
Isa. 53:7c...Sacrificial lamb... Jn. 1:29
Isa. 53:8a...Confined and persecuted... Mt. 26:47-27:31
Isa. 53:8b...He would be judged... Jn. 18:13-22
Isa. 53:8c...Killed.... Mt. 27:35
Isa. 53:8d...Dies for the sins of the world... 1 Jn. 2:2
Isa. 53:9a...Buried in a rich man's grave... Mt. 27:57
Isa. 53:9b...Innocent and had done no violence... Mk. 15:3
Isa. 53:9c...No deceit in his mouth... Jn. 18:38
Isa. 53:10a...God's will that He die for mankind... Jn. 18:11
Isa. 53:10b...An offering for sin... Mt. 20:28
Isa. 53:10c...Resurrected and live forever.... Mk. 16:16
Isa. 53:10d...He would prosper... Jn. 17:1-5
Isa. 53:11a...God fully satisfied with His suffering... Jn. 12:27
Isa. 53:11b...God's servant... Rom. 5:18-19
Isa. 53:11c...He would justify man before God... Rom. 5:8-9
Isa. 53:11d...The sin-bearer for all mankind... Heb. 9:28
Isa. 53:12a...Exalted by God because of his sacrifice... Mt. 28:18
Isa. 53:12b...He would give up his life to save mankind... Lu. 23:46
Isa. 53:12c...Grouped with criminals... Lu. 23:32
Isa. 53:12d...Sin-bearer for all mankind... 2 Cor. 5:21
Isa. 53:12e...Intercede to God in behalf of mankind... Lu. 23:34
Isa. 55:3...Resurrected by God... Acts 13:34
Isa. 55:4...A witness... Jn. 18:37
Isa. 59:15-16a...He would come to provide salvation... Jn. 6:40
Isa. 59:15-16b...Intercessor between man and God... Mt. 10:32
Isa. 59:20...He would come to Zion as their Redeemer... Lu. 2:38
Isa. 61:1-2a...The Spirit of God upon him... Mt. 3:16-17
Isa. 61:1-2b...The Messiah would preach the good news... Lu. 4:17-21
Isa. 61:1-2c...Provide freedom from the bondage of sin and death... Jn. 8:31-32
Isa. 61:1-2...Proclaim a period of grace... Jn. 5:24
Jer.23:5-6a...Descendant of David...Lu. 3:23-31
Jer. 23:5-6b...The Messiah would be God... Jn. 13:13
Jer. 23:5-6c...The Messiah would be both God and Man... 1 Tim. 3:16
Jer. 31:22...Born of a virgin... Mt. 1:18-20
Jer. 31:31...The Messiah would be the new covenant... Mt. 26:28
Jer. 33:14-15...Descendant of David... Lu. 3:23-31
Eze.17:22-24...Descendant of David... Lk. 3:23-31
Eze.34:23-24...Descendant of David... Mt. 1:1
Dan. 7:13-14a...He would ascend into heaven... Acts 1:9-11
Dan. 7:13-14b...Highly exalted... Eph. 1:20-22
Dan. 7:13-14c...His dominion would be everlasting... Lu. 1:31-33
Dan. 9:24a...To make an end to sins... Gal. 1:3-5
Dan. 9:24b...He would be holy... Lu. 1:35
Dan. 9:25...Announced to his people 483 years, to the exact day, after the decree to rebuild the city of Jerusalem... Jn. 12:12-13
Dan. 9:26a...Killed... Mt. 27:35
Dan. 9:26b...Die for the sins of the world... Heb. 2:9
Dan. 9:26c...Killed before the destruction of the temple... Mt. 27:50-51
Dan. 10:5-6...Messiah in a glorified state... Rev. 1:13-16
Hos. 13:14...He would defeat death... 1 Cor. 15:55-57
Joel 2:32...Offer salvation to all mankind... Rom. 10:12-13
Mic. 5:2a...Born in Bethlehem... Mt. 2:1-2
Mic. 5:2b...God's servant... Jn. 15:10
Mic. 5:2c...From everlasting... Jn. 8:58
Hag. 2:6-9...He would visit the second Temple... Lu. 2:27-32
Hag. 2:23...Descendant of Zerubbabel... Lu. 3:23-27
Zech. 3:8...God's servant... Jn. 17:4
Zech. 6:12-13...Priest and King... Heb. 8:1
Zech. 9:9a...Greeted with rejoicing in Jerusalem... Mt. 21:8-10
Zech. 9:9b...Beheld as King... Jn. 12:12-13
Zech. 9:9c...The Messiah would be just... Jn. 5:30
Zech. 9:9d...The Messiah would bring salvation... Luke 19:10
Zech. 9:9e...The Messiah would be humble... Mt. 11:29
Zech. 9:9f...Presented to Jerusalem riding on a donkey... Mt. 21:6-9
Zech. 10:4...The cornerstone... Eph. 2:20
Zech. 11:4-6a...At His coming, Israel to have unfit leaders... Mt. 23:1-4
Zech. 11:4-6b...Rejection causes God to remove His protection.. Lu. 19:41-44
Zech. 11:4-6c...Rejected in favor of another king... Jn. 19:13-15
Zech. 11:7...Ministry to "poor," the believing remnant... Mt. 9:35-36
Zech. 11:8a...Unbelief forces Messiah to reject them... Mt. 23:33
Zech. 11:8b...Despised... Mt. 27:20
Zech. 11:9...Stops ministering to the those who rejected Him... Mt. 13:10-11
Zech. 11:10-11a...Rejection causes God to remove protection... Lu. 19:41-44
Zech. 11:10-11b...The Messiah would be God... Jn. 14:7
Zech. 11:12-13a...Betrayed for thirty pieces of silver... Mt. 26:14-15
Zech. 11:12-13b...Rejected... Mt. 26:14-15
Zech. 11:12-13c...Thirty pieces of silver thrown into the house of the Lord... Mt. 27:3-5
Zech. 11:12-13d...The Messiah would be God... Jn. 12:45
Zech. 12:10a...The Messiah's body would be pierced... Jn. 19:34-37
Zech. 12:10b...The Messiah would be both God and man... Jn. 10:30
Zech. 12:10c...The Messiah would be rejected... Jn. 1:11
Zech. 13:7a...God's will He die for mankind... Jn. 18:11
Zech. 13:7b...A violent death... Mt. 27:35
Zech. 13:7c...Both God and man.. Jn. 14:9
Zech. 13:7d...Israel scattered as a result of rejecting Him... Mt. 26:31-56
Mal. 3:1a...Messenger to prepare the way for Messiah... Mt. 11:10
Mal. 3:1b...Sudden appearance at the temple... Mk. 11:15-16
Mal. 3:1c...Messenger of the new covenant... Lu. 4:43
Mal. 4:5...Forerunner in the spirit of Elijah... Mt. 3:1-2
Mal. 4:6...Forerunner would turn many to righteousness... Lu. 1:16-17

 

[TheCrownedOne]

The labels can definitely get us into trouble. If I say I'm Christian, that would (as stated) reflect the nature of my belief(s) in many ways. I believe that Christ most accurately exemplifies what I believe to be the Godlike qualities for which I would strive.

Jesus Christ is God manifest in the flesh. He is one third of the Triune Godhead.

Unfortunately, however, many Christians (whom I love and respect in many ways) feel that their Christian faith makes them "better than" eeryone else--the "chosen", exclusive members of the club, the ones who will be saved while everyone else (even the good, Godlike, loving and caring, kind, forgiving, peaceful people of the world) are to burn in Hell because they simply differ slightly in their philosophy of spirituality, or were raised in different times or with varied orthodoxy, etc.

It is unfortunate that some bad apples can spoil the whole bunch, or the image of the whole bunch, but I'm afraid you've some mistakes inherent in your belief. First, no one is better than anyone else, ever. Thusly, any who believe in such a way do so in pride, and "Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall." God will abase all who walk in pride.

Romans
3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

And "good, Godlike, loving and caring, kind, forgiving, peaceful people" too are no better.

Isaiah
64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

This represents the most unenlightened, close-minded thinking I can imagine. To suggest that God, which is represented as Universal Love, would "think" in such a manner is preposterous--yet I know some who "believe" in just this way!
In fact, I have a good friend who believes that unless you time your "asking of forgiveness" just right, you too shall perish in the pit; that is, we all go through life sinning (it's the nature of human existence) yet if you ask God's forgiveness, you are forgiven and will go to Heaven.

Believe on the LORD Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.

2 Corinthians
11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

So basically, you can live like a complete asshole-cheat on your wife, greedily hurt others, seklfishly serve yourself, but keep asking forgiveness, and you will enter the Kingdom. You could live a kind, selfless life, however, striving to be a devout and compassionate and loving human--but if you don't beg for forgiveness at precisely the right time before you die, you too shall burn for eternity!! Well, as you can imagine, his credibility is not very good with me. Likewise, when I hear some of the banterings of, say, our favorite televangelists, I am pretty put off.

The way of salvation is thus:

1. Admit and know that you are a sinner, only given worth through the propitiation of sins through Jesus Christ, who is God manifest in the flesh. Know that if you die in your sin, you must go to hell.
2. Repent of your sins, asking God for forgiveness.
3. Know that ONLY Christ's finished work - His death, burial, and resurrection - can save you from hell. You absolutely cannot earn your way to heaven, no matter what.
4. Trust in Christ's work and accept God's free gift of salvation.

Acts
4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

As far as the "what God is and isn't" thing; I do not believe that God "thinks" at all--in the manner that some suggest. God is Love--an all encompasing "force" , a spirit of divinity and unity, limitless and all powerful. God is not a character on a mountain top somewhere, with a long white beard and robe. God, simply, is Love. Love does not think, Love just is. Love does not sit on a throne. Love just is. Love is not separate from us. Love just is--it is in every one of us at all times, if we choose to believe it. It is all there is!

Surely God is Love (1 John 4:8), but God is also a Spirit (John 4:24), and does think (Exodus 2:24 - ...and God remembered his covenant...), and sit on a throne (Rev. 7:15 - Therefore are they before the throne of God...; also, Rev. 12:5, 14:5, 19:4, 20:11, etc.), and Hell is eternal separation from God.
Those that die in their sins are choosing to go to hell. Hell was created for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41). 2 Peter 3:9 tells us that it is not God's will that any should perish, but He cannot be in the presence of sin. Sinners cannot go to heaven, and any who have not trusted in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross of Calvary are going to die in their sins. God does not send anyone to hell; they choose to go there by rejecting Jesus Christ's work. You have freedom of choice, but not freedom from choice. Not believing in Jesus Christ alone to save you is exactly the same in God's eyes as blatantly rejecting Him.

 

[TheCrownedOne]

I see this thread and think, is god forgiving? I know stupid thought right? I agree...
In my experience god has not been very kind. I lost my sister when I was 14, she was murdered. I don't say this looking for pity, or anything else this is the facts and how I see them. Since that time I have choosen my own path, to be someone i would want her to be proud of, I choose teaching, special needs children and I love it. I coach for the special olympics, as well as give my time to charitys locally, I assist with the butterfly ball ( a lupus event to raise $ for research) and i give my time once monthly answering phones at the rape crisis center. All things I belive in.
Yet I have to think god holds a grudge, when I lost my sister, i begged god everynight to let me die, to give me some illness that would let me see my sister one more time, to tell her how much I love her and that I was so sorry.( we had a fight the last time i saw her when I got up in the morning she was gone, later to be discovered she was murdered).
Is god now giving me what I asked for? I go throught stomach cancer yrs back, now lupus, and more recently, another cancer issue. And i am healthy, I work out, teach spin when I can, eat ok, but I am not a junk food junkie, I am not a coach potatoe, it dosent make sense! I have lost my hair, ( it fell out so i shaved it like GI Jane), I have lost friends, and I have pushed loved ones away.I wont let anyone stick around and see me go throught this, because there loyal. It isent right.I have decided whats meant to be will be, for now school, teaching, coaching and attempting my masters before I die are my goals. And to enjoy my 4 yr old nephew whom i adore.
So I ask is god now giving me what I wished for over 20 yrs ago? I wish I belived that god was forgiving.....but my evidence proves otherwise

Ok, take a step back and look at this from a different perspective. Imagine your life as a line of events, so many inches long, almost like a strip of film, with every event being played out simultaneously. The events of your past, the events of your future are all playing like a movie. Think of this as what God sees.

Second, you have to understand that God cannot, ever, no matter what, make mistakes. No matter how crazy or inane something may seem to you and I, it makes more than perfect sense to God. He is able to see the outcome of every single thing that could possibly happen at any given moment. He chooses from among every possibility, the greatest and most perfect outcome imaginable. You and I, who can only see a very brief portion of this wisdom, may see this outcome as a mistake. But we are finite and know nothing. We cannot question the wisdom of God under any circumstance because we only know what He has allowed us to know. How can we question anything He does when He is nonpareil and infinitely more than we can even imagine? As difficult as it may be to believe, the death fo your sister was the best possible thing that could have happened. How do I know that? Because if it happened it is because God allowed it to happen, and if He is incapable of mistakes, then what does that tell you?

Every action has a butterfly effect. I believe that if I leave my house today to go to the gym and I leave five minutes later than I normally would have, I believe this to have a propagating effect that could change the outcome of my life 35 years from now.

"For want of a nail a horseshoe was lost.
For want of a horseshoe a horse was lost.
For want of a horse a messenger was lost.
For want of a messenger a message was lost.
For want of a message a war was lost."

The death of your sister, while not yet understood, was a path chosen by the inerrant God of creation. I hope you won't take offence to anything I've said or am going to say, as some measure of forbearance is needed when the character of a message is lost because of the medium of its deliverance. But you have to understand that we as human beings are worth nothing. We weren't even worth dying for, as quoted by C.S. Lewis: "Christ died for men precisely because men are not worth dying for; to make them worth it." Moreover, 1 Corinthians 4:7 says "For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?"We only have something because God has allowed us to have it, and even then it is still His, we do not own it. We cannot be angry when God chooses to take something from us, because we never deserved it in the first place. Look at Job 1:21 - "And said, Naked came I
out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD." We just have to trust in God's infinite wisdom to guide our lives.

 

[toughchick401]

Ok, take a step back and look at this from a different perspective. Imagine your life as a line of events, so many inches long, almost like a strip of film, with every event being played out simultaneously. The events of your past, the events of your future are all playing like a movie. Think of this as what God sees.

Second, you have to understand that God cannot, ever, no matter what, make mistakes. No matter how crazy or inane something may seem to you and I, it makes more than perfect sense to God. He is able to see the outcome of every single thing that could possibly happen at any given moment. He chooses from among every possibility, the greatest and most perfect outcome imaginable. You and I, who can only see a very brief portion of this wisdom, may see this outcome as a mistake. But we are finite and know nothing. We cannot question the wisdom of God under any circumstance because we only know what He has allowed us to know. How can we question anything He does when He is nonpareil and infinitely more than we can even imagine? As difficult as it may be to believe, the death fo your sister was the best possible thing that could have happened. How do I know that? Because if it happened it is because God allowed it to happen, and if He is incapable of mistakes, then what does that tell you?

Every action has a butterfly effect. I believe that if I leave my house today to go to the gym and I leave five minutes later than I normally would have, I believe this to have a propagating effect that could change the outcome of my life 35 years from now.

"For want of a nail a horseshoe was lost.
For want of a horseshoe a horse was lost.
For want of a horse a messenger was lost.
For want of a messenger a message was lost.
For want of a message a war was lost."

The death of your sister, while not yet understood, was a path chosen by the inerrant God of creation. I hope you won't take offence to anything I've said or am going to say, as some measure of forbearance is needed when the character of a message is lost because of the medium of its deliverance. But you have to understand that we as human beings are worth nothing. We weren't even worth dying for, as quoted by C.S. Lewis: "Christ died for men precisely because men are not worth dying for; to make them worth it." Moreover, 1 Corinthians 4:7 says "For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?"We only have something because God has allowed us to have it, and even then it is still His, we do not own it. We cannot be angry when God chooses to take something from us, because we never deserved it in the first place. Look at Job 1:21 - "And said, Naked came I
out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD." We just have to trust in God's infinite wisdom to guide our lives.

no offense taken......the greedy side of me disagrees, on one hand and one hand only......My sister was mine to keep, enjoy and grow up with, the fact that she was taken, and the manner in which it happened. makes me angry,and again questioning,, why? why would god let a young girl with her whole life ahead die? It makes no sense....the whole act of the murder makes no sense......<sigh>

Maybe this is a sign of my time, my time to let things go, let go of my anger, and what will be ....be....Do I belive in god..yes! But i dont understand nor can I practice my upbrining due to the past and the present......Part of me feels like god is not forgiving.

 

[friction515]

Ok, I dont have the time to read this whole thread right now and when I do I am sure I will have something relevant to add to the current conversation. I just thought for now i would add my favorite verse from the bible. Psalm 27:4

One thing have I desired of the Lord, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life, to behold the beauty [1] of the Lord, and to enquire in his temple.

It just reminds me of whats really important when everything else in my life seems to be unbearable.

 

[CEDeoudes59]

good thread toad!
and glad to see people participating :thumbsup:

 

[Matthew D]

trust me TC I know were you are coming from especially after this week..

 

[TheCrownedOne]

This is the best response I have for you, Toughchick401:

John
9:1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

Ok, so here we have a man seemingly innocent of the yoke he has been forced to bear. It doesn't seem fair to me that a man should be blind from birth, and I'm sure he would have agreed with me, but nevertheless God chose to give this affliction to him. The purpose of the man's blindness was made manifest when Christ came unto him and revealed the hidden wisdom of His Father, saying that the man was blind so that the works of God would be made manifest in him. He was used of God.
Anyway, all I'm asking is that you discount those hard feelings toward God. You know that those feelings only come from the Enemy, to keep you from growing closer to our Lord. Moreover, consider the purpose of the Enemy. He is going out of his way to keep you from returning to a loving relationship with our King! Why do you think he would go to so much trouble for such a seemingly small thing? It is clear to me that the Enemy has some portion of the knowledge of your future, knowing what part of the Will of God you may fulfill if he does not keep you from returning to fellowship with the LORD. Consider that there may be far larger things in store for you than you could ever imagine, if only you would "let go and let God."

 

[DmitryWI]

Is god now giving me what I asked for? I go throught stomach cancer yrs back, now lupus, and more recently, another cancer issue. And i am healthy, I work out, teach spin when I can, eat ok, but I am not a junk food junkie, I am not a coach potatoe, it dosent make sense! I have lost my hair, ( it fell out so i shaved it like GI Jane), I have lost friends, and I have pushed loved ones away.I wont let anyone stick around and see me go throught this, because there loyal. It isent right.I have decided whats meant to be will be, for now school, teaching, coaching and attempting my masters before I die are my goals. And to enjoy my 4 yr old nephew whom i adore.

So I ask is god now giving me what I wished for over 20 yrs ago? I wish I belived that god was forgiving.....but my evidence proves otherwise

Working out and eating right to be healthy is nothing if you are spirit is sick, I assume you have a lot of dark energy around you, you need to get rid of it, it's where all your sicknesses coming from. Meditate every day, imagine white light go through your body, talk to God EVERY day, let your anger toward Him go. And I don't want to sound like you are bad person, quite opposite. Find spiritually gifted person he or she can help you. My friend is VERY gifted this way, I learned a lot from him, he saved my life and he helped me to learn how to communicate with my angels and God. I don't want to sound like I pimp his services but if you decide to see him let me know.

Stephen, you have no idea how much I respect you and try to learn more and more from you.

 

[B5150]

Psalm 27:4

One thing have I desired of the Lord, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life, to behold the beauty [1] of the Lord, and to enquire in his temple.

I was a sound tech for our church worship ministry. I would participate as a member of the worship team from time to time as well. I believe that the scripture verse you reference is the inspiration for this song.

Better Is One Day

How lovely is
Your dwelling place
Oh Lord Almighty,
For my soul longs
And even faints
For You
Oh, here my heart
Is satisfied (is satisfied)
Within Your presence
I see beneath
The shadow of
Your wings

Better is one day in Your courts
Better is one day in Your house
Better is one day in Your courts
Than thousands elsewhere
Better is one day in Your courts
Better is one day in Your house
Better is one day in Your courts
Than thousands elsewhere
(Than thousands elsewhere)

One thing I ask,
And I would seek,
To see Your beauty
To find You in
The place Your glory dwells
(One thing I ask)
One thing I ask
And I would seek,
To see Your beauty
To find You in
The place Your glory dwells

Better is one day in Your courts
Better is one day in Your house
Better is one day in Your courts
Than thousands elsewhere
Better is one day in Your courts
Better is one day in Your house
Better is one day in Your courts
Than thousands elsewhere
(Better is one day)
Better is one day in Your courts
Better is one day in Your house
Better is one day in Your courts
Than thousands elsewhere
Better is one day in Your courts
Better is one day in Your house
Better is one day in Your courts
Than thousands elsewhere

(My heart and flesh cry out)
My heart and flesh cry out
For You, the Living God
Your Spirit's water to my soul
I've tasted, and I've seen
Come once again to me
I will draw near to You
I will draw near to You
To You

Better is one day
Better is one day
Better is one day
Than thousands elsewhere
Better is one day in Your courts
Better is one day in Your house
Better is one day in Your courts
Than thousands elsewhere
(4X)
Yeah, than thousands elsewhere (Yeah)
Oh, than thousands elsewhere

The first time I sang with the worship team we sang this song. We had rehearsed it at practice and we had it pretty well perfected. When we sang for the congregation I got completely overcome by the Spirit and was weeping like a baby. It was one of the first of many times since that I have felt the power of being completely filled with the Holy Spirit. Even as i type this it moves me when I recall it.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[EEmain]

For me it`s more about the message than the messenger. From a very young age I was pounded with Fire and Brimstone and WE have the only answer. No wonder I spent so may years lost in a spiritual desert.

It wasn`t untill GOD revealed himself to me in the form of an old man with an answer that things began to change.

I won`t get into what I believe or not. This is not the place. Except to say that no matter how you step towards GOD he will step towards you more.

 

[B5150]

My sister was mine to keep, enjoy and grow up with, the fact that she was taken, and the manner in which it happened. makes me angry,and again questioning,, why? why would god let a young girl with her whole life ahead die? It makes no sense....the whole act of the murder makes no sense......<sigh>

Maybe this is a sign of my time, my time to let things go, let go of my anger, and what will be ....be....Do I belive in god..yes! But i dont understand nor can I practice my upbrining due to the past and the present......Part of me feels like god is not forgiving.

I have prayed over this thread in anticipation of lives changed. I cannot comprehend the specific pains of your situation, but can empathize with a pain and anger that is incapacitating. I will join you and share it with you in Spirit, for a time, and pray for your deliverence from it. I claim it in advance in His name.

 

[milwood]

Let me say that I love all you guys and gals and appreciate the feedback, discussion, and wisdom shared here. Thank you all!

 

[poopypants]

Poopy (lol, thats funny to type), thanks for your input as well. I'm going to try and read up on tha dead sea scrolls and Joseph Smith.

please do and if you would like any references please just ask.

but to all of you out there and you too toad please be carefull what you read. like i said there are many that have persecuted the mormons from the first time they organized. the whole entire reason that they live in utah is because they were driven from there homes, the prophet joseph smith and his brother were martyred (wich he knew was to happen and he was offered up like a lamb unto the slaughter) the government even with many petitions refused to aid them and they had to treck across the plains prior to and staight through the winter in order to escape persecution. This same hate and misconception has continued in a lesser form of slanderous literature and false truths and the only thing i can think of to explain this is it is very evident to one such as myself that the forces of evil fight greatly against the church and the spreading of the gospel but has been unsuccesful in doing so.

again the only thing that i ask is that you read correct and accurate literature and make sure you do so with an open and prayerfull heart.

James 1:5 if any of ye lack wisdom let him ask of God


as for you tough chick this makes me sad but you are not alone out there in your feelings of anger and wondering why me? why do bad things have to happen to good people? why do good things happen to bad people? and the answer is they just do. Its not your fault its not your sisters fault and most definately it is not Gods fault. and im not saying this is excactly whats happening but us as humans want to know why and need that explaination and when we cant find one out that suits our needs then we make one up, we put blame on someone or something, it just makes it easier. and as for your request to you heavenly father, he wouldnt want to cut your life short any more then he would your sisters and im certain he wept just as much for your loss and the pain that you had to endure for you are his greatest creation and for you he gave his only begotten son, to bleed and die and suffer for all the sins, sicknesses, diseases, thoughts, feelings, depressions and sadnesses under such great burden and weight that it caused him to bleed at every pore. it has been said that if a human were to go through the pain and pressure of even bleeding one drop of blood through a singlge pore that it would kill them, truely he is the son of God. i think you need not look at your life as why me? but look at every obstacle and trial as a chance to strengthen yourself and grow. if you never touched fire how would you know, really know for yourself, that you would be burned? and how much better off are you for having that knowledge? now i know that the comparison of a burn to losing a loved one is a far stretch, but the principle is the same. I feel that God gives each their own lot in life and what they do with it is their own, read mathew 25 starting at verse 15 and read the parable of the talents. i belive this parable has relevence in your situation as well as many others (wich is why i feel everyone should always read your scriptures, you never know what you might find that might apply to you and your current situation in life, and everytime i do read without fail i find something that i feel was written directly for me an di know that truely these are inspired words of God) but it applies in the fact that you have been given your talents and should use those to uplift and help others, and he gives you trials and tibulations, now not specific ones he chooses out, but this life is one big trial, and you have the ability to take these and strengthen yourself all the while laying up blessings in store in heaven.

i thank you guys agin for this thread it has been very uplifting i feel many stand to benifit from it and millwood i love ya too man.:wave:

 

[TheUnlikelyToad]

For me it`s more about the message than the messenger... no matter how you step towards GOD he will step towards you more.

I whole heartedly agree with this.

ToughChick - Although I cannot relate entirely, if you know my own personal story, you can kind of see why I've had similar demons to deal with. Once I have more time I would like to tackle a bit of what you've said and like everything else in this thread... If tha shoe fits you personally, wear it. If not, toss it aside. This includes what I have to say as well. But from my perspective, tha only reason God allowed anything is because he cannot interviene. We all have free will and unfortunately thats one of tha hardest things to accept.

 

[TheUnlikelyToad]

As far as tha Lupus and Cancer goes... to be honest, I'm not quite sure and is something I continue to struggle with. I genuinely feel bad for someone like Dana Reeves who went through everything with Christopher and now has to deal with lung cancer. For times like these I often pray to give said person a break... it just makes no sense, but yet again I'm inclined to think when one is down to nothing, god is surely up to something. It becomes a matter of trying to see tha good within tha bad.

 

[adrenalinaddict]

I whole heartedly agree with this.

ToughChick - Although I cannot relate entirely, if you know my own personal story, you can kind of see why I've had similar demons to deal with. Once I have more time I would like to tackle a bit of what you've said and like everything else in this thread... If tha shoe fits you personally, wear it. If not, toss it aside. This includes what I have to say as well. But from my perspective, tha only reason God allowed anything is because he cannot interviene. We all have free will and unfortunately thats one of tha hardest things to accept.

Gosh, this is very strange. This has been a large topic of conversation for me and my girlfriend (soon to be fiance)lately. Quick background on us. We were both raised christian, her father a pastor, myself in private christian schools untill highschool. For the last few years, both of us have strayed out of anger, bitterness, immaturity, confusion, etc. Myself much more then her. She was angry and bitter at God, I basically threw God to the curb and said "I do not believe"

Mainly due to our relationship with each other, we have both recently discussed our positions on God and Religion. Now let me preface this with I am still distant, confused, not quite sure where to go and have A LOT of questions unanswered. However, as my age increases, I feel my selfish bitterness dissapear and replace itself with a much softer openess towards God, and everything I worked so hard to rebel against being younger.

Now enough about me, Toughchick I brought up this very topic to my girlfriend last night. When I was younger this was one thing that drew me away from GOD. "How can he let innocent people be raped, killed, etc... If there is a god he is unjust" That is how I felt. My girlfriend is one of the smartest people Ive ever met, and is probably the sole reason for me finally being able to understand that my own selfishness, ignorance, and bitterness has drawn me away from even being able to see the truth, let alone follow it. Now like I said, I have been away from God and everything surrounding for so long so I do not have any profound words of wisdom for you. And I belive that the cliches and hypocritical atmosphere of many religious people is something that also pushed me away for a long time. However, if we want to grow, we have to understand that our bitterness only draws us further from the truth, and as someone said, away from God.

I still do not have a complete understanding of it. And I am by no means a "God has a plan, accept it" kind of person. I look for answers and do not accept the cliches most religious people unfortunately use with most likely good intentions. However, God does allow free will, and again as someone else stated, only watches our lives play out. He acts as a father with his children. And although he tries guiding us in the right direction, especially when asked for help, a father still cannot control his childs path, the child must do that. I think your outlook and my past one match. "How can God let this happen" But unfortunately, the world, Satan, evil, temptation and so much more play into our lives. God does not control every aspect of life, and although sometimes things seem very unfair, letting the bitterness, hatred, resentment does nothing but destroy ourselves internally.

I share your pain, and your confusion, and your bitterness. I myself am battling to let these things go myself. I am on the bottom step of the staircase as I said this is a very recent journey of mine. This thread in fact is somewhat of a sign to me that this becoming a recent topic was not an accident. The timing is right. I think as I am writing this to you I am also myself taking my own advice. And I truly hope other people take the time to read my post as well. But we can find the answers, however they do not come from letting our bitterness control us. The answers can only be found if searched out. I am telling myself as I tell you, search out the answers you seek. I hope I have helped even if only a little bit.

 

[TheUnlikelyToad]

adrenalinaddict - Absolutely awesome, seriously testimony like that makes me feel like a million bucks

Man, I can tell already I'm gonna be so screwed this week. I'm not gonna get any **** done. Heck I only lifted 3 times this week........ AHHHHHhhhhgggghhhh, lol. I'll come home tomorrow after work and there will be like 15 new posts. This is turning out great!

 

[poopypants]

Yes this is a great thread. thank you again toad for puttin gthis out here and thank you everyone else for sharing and testifying your beliefs.

i think you are getting quite a good grasp on things there AA and you will be a happier person for inviting God back into your life. please though if somewhere along your journey you hit a few more bumps dont let them detur you from your current path. just pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and lift your head up high and praise God for what he has given you and the strength you have gained from the experience. i like toad feel that when you are doing good and looking in the right direction you will be rewarded and even if something bad comes along itll be a test of your faith and you will grow, in fact let me share a personal experience wich i think is a prime example of this and give you a little background on me. i was a druggy and had stopped attending church (although i always knew the truth but friends and drugs had a firm grasp on me. Satan knows how to hit you and will play to your vices) i finally had a coming around and repented picked up my stuff moved outta town and started over. things came so easily for me in this transition it was not even funny. i wanted to move but didnt know how i would pull it off. i asked my mom what i had to do to move to utah (from my brithplace in so cal) so that i could get away from it all. she said it just so happens your brothers wedding is next week so we'll look around and see what we can find. the week up until the trip i prayed fervently that if this was what he wanted me to do and if this is the change i needed to make in my life to make this happen, i wanted him to make it obvious that this is what he wanted me to do and i was making the right choice. i commited myself to the transition and told him i wasnt afraid to do my part(i feel this is key, as faith without works is dead), i was willing to go out all day every day i was there to find a job and somewhere to live. with this i was ready and got up there on a friday night. the next night at my brothers reception he heard i was thinking of moving up and without any prior knowledge from either side of eachother situation he offered me his old apartment contract (he had to sell his contract or bite the bullet and pay for the rest cause he was moving in with his wife, obviously). not even 24 hours and i have a place to live. i say ok thank you now that youve given me this much im going all out to get a job this is looking good. the next da i scour the papers classafieds for some oportunities and circle a few to call the next day (one i dont like to make others work on sunday and two most places are closed on sunday in utah anyways) i wake up the next day and call the first circled article, its a hit. i get an interview set up and im stoked. but i told myself no matter what im going all out so i keep calling everything else as well. while im dong this my mom walks up and points at an ad i hadnt circled and says "why dont you try this one?" i say ok why not and give it a call..... turns out to be a double ad with a different number for the first one i called and allready had the interview for! coincidence? i think not. i go on to get the job and within 2 days time and very little actual effort put forward (although my full fledged dedication was there) i had a place to live and a way to support myself. tell me that was not an exact answer to my prayer. the good that he brought in my life by obeying and turning to him once again. now for the trial.

the next year was great, i got another job offer from my brother to work with him for te summer and make some good money, i oblidge and take the job greatfully (it payed pretty well and put me in an environment with others of the same faith as myself) the summer went well and i had enough money to get me through that sept and oct. i then had to pick up a part time job at a board shop (oh no :dance: ) but it didnt last for long and didnt provide enough hours anyways, just then a roommate tells me his work is hiring and they pay great with great hours! so up until this point everything has been flying high and fine and things falling in my lap. i work there for like a week and a half and then my boss calls me into his office one day, now mind you i havent recieved any paychecks from him yet and the last job i had wasnt cutting it so things were tight, but he calls me in and lets me know that things arent busy enough they are over staffed and need to let me go. i say ok thank you for the job and leave. as im walking out to my truck to go home about a million things go through my head like why is this happening to me? im doing everything right, im trying my hardest and i really dont need this right now ect. until i start to almost feel an anger build up in me as im getting in my truck, and i stop. i take a deep breath and bow my head. i say thanks to my lord for all that i have. for the life i enjoy, for the loved ones i have and most importantly this obstacle he has placed before me and the strength i will gain from over coming it. ire dedicate myself to him and my will to do everything in my power to fix this situation. i look up and take another deep breath and feel a calm come over me. im content. so i go home, its allready late and i decide i will get up first thing tomorow and find a job even if it kills me. with that i sit down to play some halo, no more then 30 seconds into my first game i get a phone call.... its my brother again, he says hey bro how are things going? well i was just wondering if you were interested for coming and doing some off season work? we can pay you really well and youll have a ton of work cause our salaried guy is going to school right now and were over booked. i just about die and fight back the tears as i tell him yes ill take it and thank you.

now i know this isnt as exteme a trial as what some have faced and im well aquainted with these things as i had a brother and sister who drowned together before they were even 10. but the point is that no matter how bad the situation that with the help of God you can overcome. just place your faith in him and put forth your best effort, even if you are constantly slapped in the face continue to turn the other cheek and thank the lord for what it is you DO have. with this guys im off to bed. goodnight.

 

[toughchick401]

This is the best response I have for you, Toughchick401:

John
9:1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

Ok, so here we have a man seemingly innocent of the yoke he has been forced to bear. It doesn't seem fair to me that a man should be blind from birth, and I'm sure he would have agreed with me, but nevertheless God chose to give this affliction to him. The purpose of the man's blindness was made manifest when Christ came unto him and revealed the hidden wisdom of His Father, saying that the man was blind so that the works of God would be made manifest in him. He was used of God.
Anyway, all I'm asking is that you discount those hard feelings toward God. You know that those feelings only come from the Enemy, to keep you from growing closer to our Lord. Moreover, consider the purpose of the Enemy. He is going out of his way to keep you from returning to a loving relationship with our King! Why do you think he would go to so much trouble for such a seemingly small thing? It is clear to me that the Enemy has some portion of the knowledge of your future, knowing what part of the Will of God you may fulfill if he does not keep you from returning to fellowship with the LORD. Consider that there may be far larger things in store for you than you could ever imagine, if only you would "let go and let God."

I am trying to let go of the pain and the hurt, i do surrond myself with positive people, kids at school..there is nothing more rewarding than the smile of a child. They are what get me going and keep me going.

I drive sometimes just to drive, to clear my head. And i get hit with all of these questions....And honestly my freakin heads begins to hurt.

I was always the strong one, the one that held the family together, the rock so to speak, I know i will never understand why things happened the way they did. Nor can I change it, but i also know i need to move on, but am still struggling with the whole if god were kind...........

Thanks for the input and responses..

 

[TheCrownedOne]

No direct offence intended, but I have never had much tolerance for the beliefs of Mormonism. I think there is a great deal of misunderstanding amongst the followers thereof concerning the true origins of the faith and the character of its founders, much the same way that most Freemasons are unaware of the occult connections and practices of the highest clergy of the order. I have a site link, but it won't let me post it. Very frustrating.

It is my understanding according to Paul, that all signs and wonders of God (tongues, prophecy, faith healings, etc.) would end when the scriptures were fulfilled, and they were fulfilled about A.D. 100.

Thank you, Dmitry, for your kind words of respect, although I am torn with accepting them.

 

[DmitryWI]

It doesn't allow me to post in this thread

 

[DmitryWI]

I do respect your opinion, Milwood, but you are wrong about God=just love. i want to refer again to a friend of mine who's very gifted person, Gary Spivey is his name and actually he is pretty famous person he's got his own show in Las Vegas and he's on a few radiostations all over US and I learned a LOT from him. Anyway, he talks with God like it's just another person and I know some of you won't believe it and I didn't either untill one day he helped me see Him and talk to Him. I could see God so clear I was scared at first.
Me: (talking with my mind) I'm so glad to finally meet you, Father.
God: (smiling) I'm so happy for you, my son.
God: (still smiling) Take this sword to fight demons (puts it in my chest), take this rock it'll help you to stay on your path, take this staph to use to get rid of negative energy. I love you, son.
Me: Thank you, Father.
This is was the happiest day of my life, I've met Him, I've seen Him.

 

[DmitryWI]

Why so many bad things happen? People get killed, raped, ill, innocent children suffer. Because it's so much bad energy and demons around us. People have free will and God can help only people who ask for help. If someone decide to kill or rape, God cannot stop them. If someone get sick a lot of times it's because of all negative energy and demons surround that person. Pray to God every day and ask for guidance and protection, you are His child and He loves you more than anyone else and He wants nothing but the best for you.
Do you have a choice or do you have to follow God blindly? Someone asked. You do have a choice but within God, if you go further you step into dark side and you are not serve God anymore. Stay on your path God has for you and nothing but good things happen. Path is nothing more than your way in this life with least resistance.