Do you stand for the National Anthem?

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    or simply don't vote at all.
    Like Kaep (sorry, I had to lol).
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  2. Quote Originally Posted by irone93 View Post
    Iím sorry, this is not optional. People should be getting their ass kicked
    Feel free to try
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    Like Kaep (sorry, I had to lol).
    He's explained why. It's not just a lazy thing.
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  4. Quote Originally Posted by irone93 View Post
    I’m sorry, this is not optional. People should be getting their ass kicked
    Burp. What? lol.
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  5. Do you stand for the National Anthem?


    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    He's explained why. It's not just a lazy thing.
    No, itís just an incorrect logic thing. He claims that he wonít participate in the system that is oppressive, but to suggest that electing candidates that are determined to address and remedy the issue of corruption and oppression wonít help the situation is silly. He could have voted for a third party if he thinks two two are the same BS.

    Gary Johnson, the Libertarian candidate, said he supports BLM and wants to end the war on drugs. He says we have to many unnecessary laws and that makes to many prisoners. Heís opposed to stop and frisk. Etc.

    Not voting sets a terrible example for people. Imagine if everyone who looked up to him, say young minorities, followed his example and didnít vote? It wouldnít convince the system to change itself, itíd mean even more republicans being elected who may even make matters worse, right?
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  6. Veterans for Kaepernick
    https://twitter.com/hashtag/veterans...ernick?lang=en

    Maybe you would prefer Egypt where 75 have been sentenced to death for protesting...
    https://twitter.com/i/moments/1038413715761246208

    In the USA we honor our Vets by protesting because they have sacrificed for our right to.
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  7. Quote Originally Posted by justhere4comm View Post
    I definitely do admit that it's really open to interpretation; some people may find it offensive, and some may not. But as we all know in 2018, there will ALWAYS be someone who finds literally anything offensive, so being offended really doesn't mean much today. That said, my issue isn't him being "disrespectful," it's just that I think an employer has a right to tell employees they can't say/do certain political things at work, even if the things are just and raise legitimate points. I'd say the same for any protest at work, white or black, and if I agree or disagree with the message. I try to be consistent.

    Granted, many people don't share my reasoning, and think it's disrespectful or just don't like him, whatever, but I at least try to come from an objective legal perspective.
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  8. Quote Originally Posted by justhere4comm View Post
    Veterans for Kaepernick
    https://twitter.com/hashtag/veterans...ernick?lang=en

    Maybe you would prefer Egypt where 75 have been sentenced to death for protesting...
    https://twitter.com/i/moments/1038413715761246208

    In the USA we honor our Vets by protesting because they have sacrificed for our right to.
    I've repeated ad nauseam, there is not, and has never been, a blanket federal right to freedom of political speech at work in regards to penalties or impositions by private employers, only from the government.
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  9. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    No, it’s just an incorrect logic thing. He claims that he won’t participate in the system that is oppressive, but to suggest that electing candidates that are determined to address and remedy the issue of corruption and oppression won’t help the situation is silly. He could have voted for a third party if he thinks two two are the same BS.

    Gary Johnson, the Libertarian candidate, said he supports BLM and wants to end the war on drugs. He says we have to many unnecessary laws and that makes to many prisoners. He’s opposed to stop and frisk. Etc.

    Not voting sets a terrible example for people. Imagine if everyone who looked up to him, say young minorities, followed his example and didn’t vote? It wouldn’t convince the system to change itself, it’d mean even more republicans being elected who may even make matters worse, right?
    Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it illogical. Republicans are not the only problem and Democrats and Libertarians are not the only answer. He's talking about a broken system and you're saying to just vote in different people into the system. Oh look, another old white guy who says he has our best interest at heart and will help us. If you can't understand the cynicism associated with that crap over and over again, for generations, then you're not paying attention. ****, I'm a white male and even I feel like voting is useless most of the time.
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  10. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it illogical. Republicans are not the only problem and Democrats and Libertarians are not the only answer. He's talking about a broken system and you're saying to just vote in different people into the system. Oh look, another old white guy who says he has our best interest at heart and will help us. If you can't understand the cynicism associated with that crap over and over again, for generations, then you're not paying attention. ****, I'm a white male and even I feel like voting is useless most of the time.
    Please, tell me how not voting would help anything? Even if voting in better candidates, and do you really think Gary would be worse for minorities than Trump, isn't THE solution, it could at the least lead to some small "bandage" improvements in a larger problem. What would happen if all people who probably look up to and listen to Kaep (likely young minorities) the most took his lead and didn't vote? It'd just reduce the already small say that these minorities have in government, no? I don't see how this point is debatable. Look at someone like Ron Paul. Yes, he's an old white politician, but he's repeatedly gone out against both parties and attempted to fight oppression and injustice and protect individual liberties. If you want to be technical, if you base your judgement on a person, even a politician, on them being white, you're making a mistake. There are plenty of black politicians who support policies that would further hurt minorities, and some white ones who support policies that would help them.

    I'm not saying he doesn't have a right to be cynical, only that, as I explained above, even if voting isn't THE solution, it can help a bit, and not voting will only make things worse by reducing the already small say in government that young minorities have.


    But yeah, I'm clearly "not paying attention." This entire time I've been saying that I understand Kaep's message, and he has good points, and something needs to be done about it. I'm just saying that not voting is not the solution, and will only make matters worse.

    Please read this from MLK:


    It is my belief that one of the most significant steps that members of a minority community may take is that short walk to the voting booth. It is the responsibility of every good citizen to register and vote. I strongly urge you to vote in the coming election. Vote for the party and candidate of your choice, but by all means vote.
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  11. Also, remember that 99% of the time both Republicans and Democrats want to expand the power of government, they just want to expand it to allow and prohibit different things, failing to realize that when they give a new power to their party, the opposing party will have that same power when they are voted in in the future. On the other hand, most libertarians, by definition, want to completely reform and constrain the government, and their primary focus is protecting individual liberty and rights, which would inherently mean holding corrupt and oppressive police and other officials accountable and pushing for policies that would make it more difficult for them to abuse their power. Again, they're not all perfect, but they're a hell of a lot better than this two-sides-of-the-same-coin thing we've all convinced ourselves we're stuck in.
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  12. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    Please, tell me how not voting would help anything? Even if voting in better candidates, and do you really think Gary would be worse for minorities than Trump, isn't THE solution, it could at the least lead to some small "bandage" improvements in a larger problem. What would happen if all people who probably look up to and listen to Kaep (likely young minorities) the most took his lead and didn't vote? It'd just reduce the already small say that these minorities have in government, no? I don't see how this point is debatable. Look at someone like Ron Paul. Yes, he's an old white politician, but he's repeatedly gone out against both parties and attempted to fight oppression and injustice and protect individual liberties. If you want to be technical, if you base your judgement on a person, even a politician, on them being white, you're making a mistake. There are plenty of black politicians who support policies that would further hurt minorities, and some white ones who support policies that would help them.

    I'm not saying he doesn't have a right to be cynical, only that, as I explained above, even if voting isn't THE solution, it can help a bit, and not voting will only make things worse by reducing the already small say in government that young minorities have.


    But yeah, I'm clearly "not paying attention." This entire time I've been saying that I understand Kaep's message, and he has good points, and something needs to be done about it. I'm just saying that not voting is not the solution, and will only make matters worse.

    Please read this from MLK:
    And they have tried voting since MLK said that. Not voting won't improve things. I didn't say that, so not sure why you want me to explain that to you. I'm trying to show you his point of view on why he and many see voting as useless, so he might as well just not vote as a protest. Voting is participating in the system that he says is broken, so voting would be supporting that system. I'm not saying I agree with him; simply trying to further explain his point of view.

    If you're offended by the second part of my setence saying "you're not paying attention", but do understand why that cynicism is there, then you're ignoring the first part of that sentence. Second part doesn't apply to you if the first doesn't.
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  13. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    Also, remember that 99% of the time both Republicans and Democrats want to expand the power of government, they just want to expand it to allow and prohibit different things, failing to realize that when they give a new power to their party, the opposing party will have that same power when they are voted in in the future. On the other hand, most libertarians, by definition, want to completely reform and constrain the government, and their primary focus is protecting individual liberty and rights, which would inherently mean holding corrupt and oppressive police and other officials accountable and pushing for policies that would make it more difficult for them to abuse their power. Again, they're not all perfect, but they're a hell of a lot better than this two-sides-of-the-same-coin thing we've all convinced ourselves we're stuck in.
    Maybe the system of Demicans and Republicrats have done a great job keeping its competition (such as Libertarians) from the ears of Colon Gaypernick (along with 10s of millions of other people) and also on his end he has done a poor job doing his political homework and discovering other options? I really wonder how much time he really spends studying politics and what sources he absorbs?
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  14. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    And they have tried voting since MLK said that. Not voting won't improve thing. I didn't say that, so not sure why you want me to explain that to you. I'm trying to show you his point of view on why he and many see voting as useless, so he might as well just not vote as a protest. Voting is participating in the system that he says is broken, so voting would be supporting that system. I'm not saying I agree with him; simply trying to further explain his point of view.

    If you're offended by the second part of my setence saying "you're not paying attention", but do understand why that cynicism is there, then you're ignoring the first part of that sentence. Second part doesn't apply to you if the first doesn't.
    Ok. I understand his cynicism, but I wholeheartedly believe that not voting will at best not help, and at worst make matters much worse than they currently are for minorities. People have been voting like sheep for years/decades/etc. Just voting right down party lines regardless of the individual politician's history, stances, views, etc. is worse than not voting at all IMO, I can agree to that haha.

    I was looking over the Amendments that'll be on the ballot in Florida this year, and read that the average proposed legislation from 2017 had a reading level of 20 years of education, which is graduate-level (as in graduate degree, not graduating high school). That's intentionally trying to mislead people IMO. I agree that if people can't understand what they're voting on, how can they expect to be able to improve their situation through voting? But then some candidates like Ron/Rand Paul want to simplify these massive and convoluted laws, and require politicians to actually read the proposed laws, so they'll get my vote, as they're unquestionably better than the current lot we have.
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  15. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Maybe the system of Demicans and Republicrats have done a great job keeping its competition (such as Libertarians) from the ears of Colon Gaypernick (along with 10s of millions of other people) and also on his end he has done a poor job doing his political homework and discovering other options? I really wonder how much time he really spends studying politics and what sources he absorbs?
    The electoral college system in theory makes it VERY difficult for a third party to win the Presidential election, even though no third party candidate has really ever made this a practical issue. A third party may win no state, but may be 1 vote behind the winner in every single state and get destroyed in the electoral college. Think the last election except orders of magnitude more; in theory they can have not just the most popular votes, but the vast majority of the popular vote and still lose in a landslide in the general election.
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  16. Damn right I do and if ur sitting near me ur gonna end up standing its bs

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Country View Post
    Damn right I do and if ur sitting near me ur gonna end up standing its bs
    You're missing out on the whole Freedom of Speech thing... it's really cool. Try letting someone else do it without infringing on it. It's what made America great.
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  18. Quote Originally Posted by Country View Post
    Damn right I do and if ur sitting near me ur gonna end up standing its bs
    **** that. If you're too ****ing lazy to spell complete words, then you're not going to do **** for people sitting.
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  19. Quote Originally Posted by Country View Post
    Damn right I do and if ur sitting near me ur gonna end up standing its bs
    Sounds like you would fit in well in North Korea.
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  20. Quote Originally Posted by justhere4comm View Post
    You're missing out on the whole Freedom of Speech thing... it's really cool. Try letting someone else do it without infringing on it. It's what made America great.
    This. Even if a private employee doesnít necessarily have the legal right to political speech at work against his employerís wishes, a private citizen/fan unquestionably does have the right to not stand, and harassing someone for peacefully exercising their right is kind of sh**ing on what America actually stands for.
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  21. I heard it live for the first occasion in many years at the park earlier this year. A JrHS football game was in beginning. Yeah I stopped and did the hand over heart. So did many others like myself who were within earshot but not in the stadium. Reflexive reaction from childhood.

    I see it as a sign of respect to our flag which represents our country, our values, our way of life.

    I would stand overseas in respect of other countries if they played their anthem at events. Like doing the one minute of silence in the UK on November 11th.

    We did all of these things in our early youth as part of the training to be a good citizen. Stays with a person all their life. Respect for something larger than oneself.

    Similarly, thanks to parents, PSAs, teachers I do not litter. Never have, never will. Training from early on in good habits. Similar with smoking, etc. Jesuits have a saying "Give me a child for the first seven years of his life and release him into the world he will come back to his training". Same reason in good ole P.S.XX I attended as kid in NYC taught us to be Americans. Same system used back to the 1800s with the influx of immigrants. You became as American as anyone here generations before.

    That has all changed now of course to the detriment of our country.

  22. The US has failed black minoritys all throughout its history, yet you get mad because one man draws attention to it by kneeling during the anthem, and yet show zero compassion for his cause and his reasons.

    You care more about the flag and the anthem than you do about the people of your own nation. That's shameful and you should be embarrassed OP.

    When your nation fails you, repeatedly, why would you stand for it?

    Ax1 - you made a point that statistically a black male is more likely to get shot by another black male than by a cop. You'd sure hope so. Police are there to protect others, not kill them.
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  23. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    The US has failed black minoritys all throughout its history, yet you get mad because one man draws attention to it by kneeling during the anthem, and yet show zero compassion for his cause and his reasons.

    You care more about the flag and the anthem than you do about the people of your own nation. That's shameful and you should be embarrassed OP.

    When your nation fails you, repeatedly, why would you stand for it?

    Ax1 - you made a point that statistically a black male is more likely to get shot by another black male than by a cop. You'd sure hope so. Police are there to protect others, not kill them.
    The amount of respect I have for you has blown past what words can say. Thankyou! Theres alot of people who will never get it simply because its easier to ignore the truth than to face reality.

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  24. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    The US has failed black minoritys all throughout its history, yet you get mad because one man draws attention to it by kneeling during the anthem, and yet show zero compassion for his cause and his reasons.

    You care more about the flag and the anthem than you do about the people of your own nation. That's shameful and you should be embarrassed OP.

    When your nation fails you, repeatedly, why would you stand for it?

    Ax1 - you made a point that statistically a black male is more likely to get shot by another black male than by a cop. You'd sure hope so. Police are there to protect others, not kill them.
    Many complaining don't care about the flag or anthem or ever ever think about it. It's a cop-out so they don't have to actually address an issue. It's the same thing as people using women and children as the excuse for why they're mad about Target bathrooms and illegal immigrants, but than do **** all when an old white dude rapes a woman or somebody shoots up a school.
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  25. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    Many complaining don't care about the flag or anthem or ever ever think about it. It's a cop-out so they don't have to actually address an issue. It's the same thing as people using women and children as the excuse for why they're mad about Target bathrooms and illegal immigrants, but than do **** all when an old white dude rapes a woman or somebody shoots up a school.
    imagine not even looking American to these same fraud ass "hand-over-your-heart or you should get shot and killed", group of fanatics...so many social media [email protected]$$ White Power M.F.ers...I remember when these same kinda people wanted to protest MLB because they chose to have Marc Anthony sing God Bless America during the ASG...and obviously his hue of skin color makes it impossible for him to be American...
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