Do you stand for the National Anthem?

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by LoveCompeting View Post
    You guys just dont' get my point of view and that is ok because we are all programmed differently. Some hold value to things that others do not.

    I hold value in standing for the national anthem, always have since I was taught at a young age to value it.

    I know many children out there don't even pay attention and just go through the motions when they are standing for the pledge of allegiance. That's alright, to each their own.

    But one thing that I would never do, even though we live in America and we are free to express ourselves in any which way we want, is choose to kneel during the anthem. Reason being is that I know there is a time and place for everything.

    Unquestionably, we are an imperfect and flawed country, where bigotry, racial inequality and social injustice exist. But the notion that the American flag created or perpetuates these social ills is simply wrong.

    It is people who create and perpetuate these social ills and, unfortunately, some of these people wear the American flag on their sleeve. However, to link those individuals with our flag is both disrespectful and unappreciative of those who proudly wear the flag on their sleeve.

    The American flag embodies an incalculable generosity to those suffering from natural or man-made disasters. Americans donít take a knee when, at home or abroad, victims of tsunamis, hurricanes, earthquakes or other natural disasters ask for our financial help.

    The American flag embodies the selfless sacrifice of those brave men and women who respond to national crises. American first responders didnít take a knee on Sept. 11, 2001, when asked to help others amid the horrors of the twin towers. The American flag was buried with them in the rubble that day.

    The American flag embodies the courage and bravery of our service men and women when called upon to relieve the suffering and oppression of others around the world. American soldiers, sailors, Marines, airmen and coasties donít take a knee when it comes to protecting our liberties, including our First Amendment right of free speech.

    The American flag embodies the unnoticed simple acts of kindness and compassion that Americans show to one another every day. Americans donít take a knee when it comes to helping others in need.

    We are, as our Pledge of Allegiance reminds us, ďone nation, under God, indivisible.Ē Kneeling during our national anthem denigrates the very symbol of our indivisibility. Kneeling during our national anthem promotes division, not healing, and disrespects those that proudly wear the American flag on their sleeve as an emblem of what is good in this country.

    In a strange way, kneeling during the national anthem is both ironic and hypocritical. When those who kneel during our national anthem need the services of those Americans who proudly wear the flag, who do they call? Certainly not their supporters. They call those same fellow Americans who proudly wear the flag.

    And those people who respond to calls for help never take a knee. They respond without inquiring about race, ethnic background, social status, or political persuasion. They simply respond and, in many instances, risk their own lives in doing so. That is what the American flag is all about and that is what makes this country great.

    Those who kneel canít have it both ways. They canít seek to exercise those freedoms for which the American flag stands while at the same time disrespecting the very same flag and those who wear it. Simply because the First Amendment protects the right to kneel during our national anthem doesnít mean these actions should be applauded.

    If we as a nation are to move forward in a unified effort to eradicate bigotry and eliminate racial inequality, we must change peopleís minds and attitudes.

    The American flag is not a symbol of bigotry and racial inequality; it is a symbol of hope, courage, and compassion. If we as a nation believe otherwise, then our efforts to bring this country together will be for naught.

    My job, as a citizen of this nation, is to strive every day to embody what makes this country great, and to not take a knee when others around me need help, even those who kneel during our national anthem.
    Iíd say I see it in a way that Iím trying to DEpeogram myself. I think someone has every right to kneel during the anthem on their own time (not at work) and I donít care if they do or donít, itís just that as a whole, employees donít have a right to do it against their employerís wishes at work (federal law, as state laws may differ). Itís not so much a political/patriotic issue for me as it is a legal one, and weíre having some good conversation about if itís legal or not in this particular instance.
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  2. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    Itís unlikely. If that were the case the president could essentially tell employers to do something and essentially force them to be unable to do it, which would be an insanely dangerous precedent to set.

    Can you at least concede that the First Amendment doesnít protect political speech at work if itís against your employerís wishes? Putting aside POTUSí involvement of course?
    yea...you cant just dismiss 45's involvement...it doesn't really work like that...

    ...just like you can't dismiss the fact that NFL owners know they can't just fire NFL players for kneeling, albeit having the ability to do, regardless of them protesting while on the clock, because the owners themselves don't fill the stadium seats...
    •   
       


  3. Quote Originally Posted by LoveCompeting View Post
    You guys just dont' get my point of view and that is ok because we are all programmed differently. Some hold value to things that others do not.

    I hold value in standing for the national anthem, always have since I was taught at a young age to value it.

    I know many children out there don't even pay attention and just go through the motions when they are standing for the pledge of allegiance. That's alright, to each their own.

    But one thing that I would never do, even though we live in America and we are free to express ourselves in any which way we want, is choose to kneel during the anthem. Reason being is that I know there is a time and place for everything.

    Unquestionably, we are an imperfect and flawed country, where bigotry, racial inequality and social injustice exist. But the notion that the American flag created or perpetuates these social ills is simply wrong.

    It is people who create and perpetuate these social ills and, unfortunately, some of these people wear the American flag on their sleeve. However, to link those individuals with our flag is both disrespectful and unappreciative of those who proudly wear the flag on their sleeve.

    The American flag embodies an incalculable generosity to those suffering from natural or man-made disasters. Americans donít take a knee when, at home or abroad, victims of tsunamis, hurricanes, earthquakes or other natural disasters ask for our financial help.

    The American flag embodies the selfless sacrifice of those brave men and women who respond to national crises. American first responders didnít take a knee on Sept. 11, 2001, when asked to help others amid the horrors of the twin towers. The American flag was buried with them in the rubble that day.

    The American flag embodies the courage and bravery of our service men and women when called upon to relieve the suffering and oppression of others around the world. American soldiers, sailors, Marines, airmen and coasties donít take a knee when it comes to protecting our liberties, including our First Amendment right of free speech.

    The American flag embodies the unnoticed simple acts of kindness and compassion that Americans show to one another every day. Americans donít take a knee when it comes to helping others in need.

    We are, as our Pledge of Allegiance reminds us, ďone nation, under God, indivisible.Ē Kneeling during our national anthem denigrates the very symbol of our indivisibility. Kneeling during our national anthem promotes division, not healing, and disrespects those that proudly wear the American flag on their sleeve as an emblem of what is good in this country.

    In a strange way, kneeling during the national anthem is both ironic and hypocritical. When those who kneel during our national anthem need the services of those Americans who proudly wear the flag, who do they call? Certainly not their supporters. They call those same fellow Americans who proudly wear the flag.

    And those people who respond to calls for help never take a knee. They respond without inquiring about race, ethnic background, social status, or political persuasion. They simply respond and, in many instances, risk their own lives in doing so. That is what the American flag is all about and that is what makes this country great.

    Those who kneel canít have it both ways. They canít seek to exercise those freedoms for which the American flag stands while at the same time disrespecting the very same flag and those who wear it. Simply because the First Amendment protects the right to kneel during our national anthem doesnít mean these actions should be applauded.

    If we as a nation are to move forward in a unified effort to eradicate bigotry and eliminate racial inequality, we must change peopleís minds and attitudes.

    The American flag is not a symbol of bigotry and racial inequality; it is a symbol of hope, courage, and compassion. If we as a nation believe otherwise, then our efforts to bring this country together will be for naught.

    My job, as a citizen of this nation, is to strive every day to embody what makes this country great, and to not take a knee when others around me need help, even those who kneel during our national anthem.
    We get your point of view; we just don't agree with it. First, you go off on this entire thing about first responders doing their job without regards for race which is complete bull**** and one of the main points of the protest you're talking about. I grew up south side of Chicago and I'm white, so yes, I could rely on the cops. I had friends that couldn't and some that would never call the police.

    And you keep talking about military, but you're ignoring the one in this very thread. Everything you say makes me believe that you have no true pride in standing and are just parroting and going through the motions.

    We all hear your point and took the time to read and understand your post. Apparently, you were expecting everybody here to be a robot too and be like **** those who won't stand. You want citizens of this nation to be forced to stand and mindlessly sing a song. That is what you're asking to be done. That doesn't sound like America to me.
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  4. Quote Originally Posted by Yomo View Post
    yea...you cant just dismiss 45's involvement...it doesn't really work like that...

    ...just like you can't dismiss the fact that NFL owners know they can't just fire NFL players for kneeling, albeit having the ability to do, regardless of them protesting while on the clock, because the owners themselves don't fill the stadium seats...
    Youíre confusing all sorts of motives and legalities now...

    Owners are not not firing players for kneeling because they donít have the legal grounds to, but, as you said, because it probably wouldnít be a good economic decision, as you donít want to go THAT far to alienate any significant portion of your customer base.

    Are you even keeping up with the discussion? Weíre not even sure if what Trump said actually violates the letter of the law or just the spirit of it.

    That is why I asked if you will admit that, had Trump not given his inappropriate two cents, would the owners have a right to prohibit political protests/speech at work? If you say no, I say that you need to reread the First Amendment. If you say yes, then we can move on, accepting that premise, and attempt to determine if what Trump did violates the letter of the law or just the spirit.

    One step at a time.
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  5. Quote Originally Posted by LoveCompeting View Post
    You guys just dont' get my point of view and that is ok because we are all programmed differently. Some hold value to things that others do not.

    I hold value in standing for the national anthem, always have since I was taught at a young age to value it.

    I know many children out there don't even pay attention and just go through the motions when they are standing for the pledge of allegiance. That's alright, to each their own.

    But one thing that I would never do, even though we live in America and we are free to express ourselves in any which way we want, is choose to kneel during the anthem. Reason being is that I know there is a time and place for everything.

    Unquestionably, we are an imperfect and flawed country, where bigotry, racial inequality and social injustice exist. But the notion that the American flag created or perpetuates these social ills is simply wrong.

    It is people who create and perpetuate these social ills and, unfortunately, some of these people wear the American flag on their sleeve. However, to link those individuals with our flag is both disrespectful and unappreciative of those who proudly wear the flag on their sleeve.

    The American flag embodies an incalculable generosity to those suffering from natural or man-made disasters. Americans donít take a knee when, at home or abroad, victims of tsunamis, hurricanes, earthquakes or other natural disasters ask for our financial help.

    The American flag embodies the selfless sacrifice of those brave men and women who respond to national crises. American first responders didnít take a knee on Sept. 11, 2001, when asked to help others amid the horrors of the twin towers. The American flag was buried with them in the rubble that day.

    The American flag embodies the courage and bravery of our service men and women when called upon to relieve the suffering and oppression of others around the world. American soldiers, sailors, Marines, airmen and coasties donít take a knee when it comes to protecting our liberties, including our First Amendment right of free speech.

    The American flag embodies the unnoticed simple acts of kindness and compassion that Americans show to one another every day. Americans donít take a knee when it comes to helping others in need.

    We are, as our Pledge of Allegiance reminds us, ďone nation, under God, indivisible.Ē Kneeling during our national anthem denigrates the very symbol of our indivisibility. Kneeling during our national anthem promotes division, not healing, and disrespects those that proudly wear the American flag on their sleeve as an emblem of what is good in this country.

    In a strange way, kneeling during the national anthem is both ironic and hypocritical. When those who kneel during our national anthem need the services of those Americans who proudly wear the flag, who do they call? Certainly not their supporters. They call those same fellow Americans who proudly wear the flag.

    And those people who respond to calls for help never take a knee. They respond without inquiring about race, ethnic background, social status, or political persuasion. They simply respond and, in many instances, risk their own lives in doing so. That is what the American flag is all about and that is what makes this country great.

    Those who kneel canít have it both ways. They canít seek to exercise those freedoms for which the American flag stands while at the same time disrespecting the very same flag and those who wear it. Simply because the First Amendment protects the right to kneel during our national anthem doesnít mean these actions should be applauded.

    If we as a nation are to move forward in a unified effort to eradicate bigotry and eliminate racial inequality, we must change peopleís minds and attitudes.

    The American flag is not a symbol of bigotry and racial inequality; it is a symbol of hope, courage, and compassion. If we as a nation believe otherwise, then our efforts to bring this country together will be for naught.

    My job, as a citizen of this nation, is to strive every day to embody what makes this country great, and to not take a knee when others around me need help, even those who kneel during our national anthem.

    ...have you served in either the military or Law Enforcement, or have been directly involved with the loss of a First Responder?


    Because I can claim both, while understanding that protesting during the raising of a flag and the singing of a song in order to bring attention to a very real issue on a national level, on a national stage, defines the very right that all of those lives lost represent...and in the same breath, recognize that not everyone will agree.
    •   
       

  6. Do you stand for the National Anthem?


    Quote Originally Posted by Yomo View Post
    ...have you served in either the military or Law Enforcement, or have been directly involved with the loss of a First Responder?


    Because I can claim both, while understanding that protesting during the raising of a flag and the singing of a song in order to bring attention to a very real issue on a national level, on a national stage, defines the very right that all of those lives lost represent...and in the same breath, recognize that not everyone will agree.
    Again, there is no inherent right to protest on a national stage when said stage is your place of work when youíre on the clock if itís against your employerís wishes.

    Trump may have gone and ****ed it up for the owners by getting involved, but employees have no right to freedom of speech at work on a federal level. That is my sole point.
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  7. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    You’re confusing all sorts of motives and legalities now...

    Owners are not not firing players for kneeling because they don’t have the legal grounds to, but, as you said, because it probably wouldn’t be a good economic decision, as you don’t want to go THAT far to alienate any significant portion of your customer base.

    Are you even keeping up with the discussion? We’re not even sure if what Trump said actually violates the letter of the law or just the spirit of it.

    That is why I asked if you will admit that, had Trump not given his inappropriate two cents, would the owners have a right to prohibit political protests/speech at work? If you say no, I say that you need to reread the First Amendment. If you say yes, then we can move on, accepting that premise, and attempt to determine if what Trump did violates the letter of the law or just the spirit.

    One step at a time.
    there is absolutely no confusion, other than your own....

    I simply stated, our day to day jobs can't compare to the NFL...if I got fired for protesting on the clock, my employer would simply fill my spot...it doesn't work like that in the NFL...not sure how you don't understand this.

    my freedom of speech referenced his disapproval of protests of any kind during the Anthem...I never claimed legality of anything, until after you misinterpreted my post, claiming I stated First Amendment rights were being violated, which I never did, simply stated 45s influence in the matter...re read my original post.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Yomo View Post
    there is absolutely no confusion, other than your own....

    I simply stated, our day to day jobs can't compare to the NFL...if I got fired for protesting on the clock, my employer would simply fill my spot...it doesn't work like that in the NFL...not sure how you don't understand this.

    my freedom of speech referenced his disapproval of protests of any kind during the Anthem...I never claimed legality of anything, until after you misinterpreted my post, claiming I stated First Amendment rights were being violated, which I never did, simply stated 45s influence in the matter...re read my original post.
    That is supply and demand, an economic principle, not a legal one my friend. Iím only concerned with the legal basis. I agree with your economic reference and points.

    If youíre not claiming that NFL players have a First Amendment right to political speech at work, then I have no real qualms or disagreements with you.

    If I misunderstood something before, I apologize. No hard feelings.
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  9. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    Again, there is no inherent right to protest on a national stage when said stage is your place of work when you’re on the clock if it’s against your employer’s wishes.

    Trump may have gone and ****ed it up for the owners by getting involved, but employees have no right to freedom of speech at work on a federal level. That is my sole point.
    We're all in agreement on what the first amendment says. Reality is much more complicated than that.
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  10. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    We're all in agreement on what the first amendment says. Reality is much more complicated than that.
    Youíd be surprised what some people think it means. Some people legitimately think it means you can say whatever you want whenever and wherever you want and not be penalized for it, which is insane.

    If I work at CVS, I canít tell everyone who buys condoms that premarital sex is a sin and expect to keep my job haha. Itís an extreme example, sure, but it illustrates that free speech is no unlimited, and really, on a federal level, pertains only to penalty from the government, not private individuals/companies. As you said, state laws may change things though, and Trump getting involved was stupid and may muddy the legal waters.
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  11. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    You’d be surprised what some people think it means. Some people legitimately think it means you can say whatever you want whenever and wherever you want and not be penalized for it, which is insane.

    If I work at CVS, I can’t tell everyone who buys condoms that premarital sex is a sin and expect to keep my job haha. It’s an extreme example, sure, but it illustrates that free speech is no unlimited, and really, on a federal level, pertains only to penalty from the government, not private individuals/companies. As you said, state laws may change things though, and Trump getting involved was stupid and may muddy the legal waters.
    Why are you repeating back to me the same things I said in this thread lol? We're on the same page.
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  12. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    Why are you repeating back to me the same things I said in this thread lol? We're on the same page.
    My bad. I may have confused you with the other guy, as I donít really know what heís trying to say yet, as he keeps bringing up the supply and demand / economic perspective of it, which is not what any of us have been discussing.
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  13. Quote Originally Posted by LoveCompeting View Post
    You guys just dont' get my point of view and that is ok because we are all programmed differently. Some hold value to things that others do not.

    I hold value in standing for the national anthem, always have since I was taught at a young age to value it.

    I know many children out there don't even pay attention and just go through the motions when they are standing for the pledge of allegiance. That's alright, to each their own.

    But one thing that I would never do, even though we live in America and we are free to express ourselves in any which way we want, is choose to kneel during the anthem. Reason being is that I know there is a time and place for everything.

    Unquestionably, we are an imperfect and flawed country, where bigotry, racial inequality and social injustice exist. But the notion that the American flag created or perpetuates these social ills is simply wrong.

    It is people who create and perpetuate these social ills and, unfortunately, some of these people wear the American flag on their sleeve. However, to link those individuals with our flag is both disrespectful and unappreciative of those who proudly wear the flag on their sleeve.

    The American flag embodies an incalculable generosity to those suffering from natural or man-made disasters. Americans donít take a knee when, at home or abroad, victims of tsunamis, hurricanes, earthquakes or other natural disasters ask for our financial help.

    The American flag embodies the selfless sacrifice of those brave men and women who respond to national crises. American first responders didnít take a knee on Sept. 11, 2001, when asked to help others amid the horrors of the twin towers. The American flag was buried with them in the rubble that day.

    The American flag embodies the courage and bravery of our service men and women when called upon to relieve the suffering and oppression of others around the world. American soldiers, sailors, Marines, airmen and coasties donít take a knee when it comes to protecting our liberties, including our First Amendment right of free speech.

    The American flag embodies the unnoticed simple acts of kindness and compassion that Americans show to one another every day. Americans donít take a knee when it comes to helping others in need.

    We are, as our Pledge of Allegiance reminds us, ďone nation, under God, indivisible.Ē Kneeling during our national anthem denigrates the very symbol of our indivisibility. Kneeling during our national anthem promotes division, not healing, and disrespects those that proudly wear the American flag on their sleeve as an emblem of what is good in this country.

    In a strange way, kneeling during the national anthem is both ironic and hypocritical. When those who kneel during our national anthem need the services of those Americans who proudly wear the flag, who do they call? Certainly not their supporters. They call those same fellow Americans who proudly wear the flag.

    And those people who respond to calls for help never take a knee. They respond without inquiring about race, ethnic background, social status, or political persuasion. They simply respond and, in many instances, risk their own lives in doing so. That is what the American flag is all about and that is what makes this country great.

    Those who kneel canít have it both ways. They canít seek to exercise those freedoms for which the American flag stands while at the same time disrespecting the very same flag and those who wear it. Simply because the First Amendment protects the right to kneel during our national anthem doesnít mean these actions should be applauded.

    If we as a nation are to move forward in a unified effort to eradicate bigotry and eliminate racial inequality, we must change peopleís minds and attitudes.

    The American flag is not a symbol of bigotry and racial inequality; it is a symbol of hope, courage, and compassion. If we as a nation believe otherwise, then our efforts to bring this country together will be for naught.

    My job, as a citizen of this nation, is to strive every day to embody what makes this country great, and to not take a knee when others around me need help, even those who kneel during our national anthem.
    Actually your job as an American Citizen is to obey the Constitution, and under the 2nd Amendment to bear arms so that at anytime you are needed to take up arms against US enemies to include your own tyrannist government if so needed. The US military can not act on its own soil. Only the Coast Gaurd which actually falls under the Department of Homeland Security and not the Department of Defense can act on US Soil. Therefore, all Americans whether you chose to or not is required to act as a militia and protect our Country.
    I mean if you really hate your balls, go for it. But, what did they do to you?

  14. Quote Originally Posted by LoveCompeting View Post
    You guys just dont' get my point of view and that is ok because we are all programmed differently. Some hold value to things that others do not.

    I hold value in standing for the national anthem, always have since I was taught at a young age to value it.

    I know many children out there don't even pay attention and just go through the motions when they are standing for the pledge of allegiance. That's alright, to each their own.

    But one thing that I would never do, even though we live in America and we are free to express ourselves in any which way we want, is choose to kneel during the anthem. Reason being is that I know there is a time and place for everything.

    Unquestionably, we are an imperfect and flawed country, where bigotry, racial inequality and social injustice exist. But the notion that the American flag created or perpetuates these social ills is simply wrong.

    It is people who create and perpetuate these social ills and, unfortunately, some of these people wear the American flag on their sleeve. However, to link those individuals with our flag is both disrespectful and unappreciative of those who proudly wear the flag on their sleeve.

    The American flag embodies an incalculable generosity to those suffering from natural or man-made disasters. Americans donít take a knee when, at home or abroad, victims of tsunamis, hurricanes, earthquakes or other natural disasters ask for our financial help.

    The American flag embodies the selfless sacrifice of those brave men and women who respond to national crises. American first responders didnít take a knee on Sept. 11, 2001, when asked to help others amid the horrors of the twin towers. The American flag was buried with them in the rubble that day.

    The American flag embodies the courage and bravery of our service men and women when called upon to relieve the suffering and oppression of others around the world. American soldiers, sailors, Marines, airmen and coasties donít take a knee when it comes to protecting our liberties, including our First Amendment right of free speech.

    The American flag embodies the unnoticed simple acts of kindness and compassion that Americans show to one another every day. Americans donít take a knee when it comes to helping others in need.

    We are, as our Pledge of Allegiance reminds us, ďone nation, under God, indivisible.Ē Kneeling during our national anthem denigrates the very symbol of our indivisibility. Kneeling during our national anthem promotes division, not healing, and disrespects those that proudly wear the American flag on their sleeve as an emblem of what is good in this country.

    In a strange way, kneeling during the national anthem is both ironic and hypocritical. When those who kneel during our national anthem need the services of those Americans who proudly wear the flag, who do they call? Certainly not their supporters. They call those same fellow Americans who proudly wear the flag.

    And those people who respond to calls for help never take a knee. They respond without inquiring about race, ethnic background, social status, or political persuasion. They simply respond and, in many instances, risk their own lives in doing so. That is what the American flag is all about and that is what makes this country great.

    Those who kneel canít have it both ways. They canít seek to exercise those freedoms for which the American flag stands while at the same time disrespecting the very same flag and those who wear it. Simply because the First Amendment protects the right to kneel during our national anthem doesnít mean these actions should be applauded.

    If we as a nation are to move forward in a unified effort to eradicate bigotry and eliminate racial inequality, we must change peopleís minds and attitudes.

    The American flag is not a symbol of bigotry and racial inequality; it is a symbol of hope, courage, and compassion. If we as a nation believe otherwise, then our efforts to bring this country together will be for naught.

    My job, as a citizen of this nation, is to strive every day to embody what makes this country great, and to not take a knee when others around me need help, even those who kneel during our national anthem.
    Every opinion you just expressed stems from the idea that kneeling during the national anthem is disrespecting the flag. I wonder, can you imagine how kneeling during the anthem for a pwerful cause might be in service of the flag?

  15. People destroying Nike gear are full blown retards. You've already given them your money, they couldn't care less whether you actually wear it anymore. You'll just go buy more when you get over your tantrum.

    I also didn't realize people stood for the national anthem at home. That is very peculiar to me. Lol

    I stand for the most part, but rarely put my hand over my heart, and if I'm tired I stay seated. I don't need to stand attention to prove to anyone that I love America or the troops. Kneel, stand, sit down, whatever. I don't see kneeling as disrespectful at all, they have an opinion and they can do whatever they want as long as they aren't hurting anyone around them.

    As far as the whole NFL thing goes, you have to follow rules at work whether you want to or not. If you want to protest it, don't be on the field. It literally will make no difference either way.

    I went to a baseball game the other day and was mindblown when people stood and put their hands over their hearts for God Bless America, and I got strange looks for saying I wasn't going to do that. Since when is that a thing? Lol we are living in bizzaro world now.

  16. I absolutely stand to the flag during the Anthem....it is my home, my country and that flag belongs to me in any image I want the flag to be. You dont have to love your government to love your home, and when people are in your home you at least want the same common respect as you would in their home.

    As far as Gaypernick, that dude worked for a private company and when you hurt the product you hurt other peoples livelihoods...not just NFL players but all the way down to the people making a living taking care of the stadium. Gaypernick has the right to kneel, and I support that right but the owners of the NFL should have every right to bury his azz if he is hurting their business while the employee is on the clock.
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  17. Quote Originally Posted by LoveCompeting View Post
    You are not looking deep enough into this. People died because they defended this flag. It isnt about justice or police brutality. The flag represents the men and women who came before us to be patriotic and serve in our military willing to die for it. Only a buffoon would think it was ok to choose to kneel when we should stand with a hand over our heart respecting the flag during its national anthem and also showing respect to those who DIED for us to have the freedom to STAND on Sundays watching football and being AMERICANS. They also served so people could be pro athletes. If those pro athletes were not free they wouldn’t be able to be on that field!!! Stand and show some ****ing respect!
    I think whats more important than the people dying to defend the flag is that people died to defend their right to protest under that flag. They didnt die to defend the freedom to stand, but the freedom to stand, kneel, shyt, light on fire, whatever they want as long as these people arent infringing on the liberties of others while not putting limits to their own decisions of thoughts and actions which is what the flag is really supposed to represent. And thanks to all the troops for that!
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  18. If people actually had half a brain, they would be donating their Nike gear to the homeless and poor veterans that they love oh so much, instead of destroying it.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by rascal14 View Post
    If people actually had half a brain, they would be donating their Nike gear to the homeless and poor veterans that they love oh so much, instead of destroying it.
    I've seen some people with at least half a brain recommending this, and it makes sense, and it's an action indicative of an actual good citizen, not just someone who claims to be one. I have several pieces of Nike clothing, shoes, etc, and I certainly won't be burning them, but I probably won't be buying more in the near future, unless they go on sale haha.

    I do get what Kaepernick (spelling?) protested about, and he brings up some legitimate points that should be addressed and we should attempt to remedy, but he's just not exactly the best face for social justice IMO. Does no one remember the Castro shirt he wore IN MIAMI, where so many people, of multiple generations, fled Cuba and Castro's dictatorship and cruelty? It was just beyond tone-deaf, and also really undermined his whole message. He wont' stand for the US anthem because of corrupt/racist police officers, but he'll wear a shirt with Castro on it? Castro, who is irrefutably worse and more corrupt than the US is today.

    From Florida Reporter George Diaz, whose family fled Cuba under Castro:
    There is no question that racial inequality needs to be a topic of conversation in the United States. But that gets us back to Cuba, where such conversations can get you in prison.

    My family left there in 1961. We left our home, our furniture, most of valuables and our relatives behind because we were seeking freedom. It wasn’t for money, nor the opportunity to visit Disney and Universal.

    We wanted to be free, and the United States, bless its soul, gave us that opportunity.

    So yes, I find it personally insulting that Kaepernick is oblivious to the fact that Castro is one of the most vile dictators of modern times with extensive human rights violations.
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  20. Quote Originally Posted by LMuscle View Post
    Stand. Every. ****ing. Time.
    Thanks Comrade! Just kidding, but as someone who comes from a family of vets, no one who knew why Colin was kneeling (protesting racism and unchecked police brutality) would think this is disrespectful to troops... Troops who are fighting with the intent of protecting right like free speech and peaceful protesting.

    So yeah I think anyone who was not distracted by Trump "misdirection play" here knows this was a valid use of 1A and peaceful protesting. And I'm a life long conservative, before Trump ever came

    Just saying...

  21. Quote Originally Posted by PoSiTiVeFLoW View Post
    Thanks Comrade! Just kidding, but as someone who comes from a family of vets, no one who knew why Colin was kneeling (protesting racism and unchecked police brutality) would think this is disrespectful to troops... Troops who are fighting with the intent of protecting right like free speech and peaceful protesting.

    So yeah I think anyone who was not distracted by Trump "misdirection play" here knows this was a valid use of 1A and peaceful protesting. And I'm a life long conservative, before Trump ever came

    Just saying...
    No, it is not. On a federal level, employees have no legal right to free speech at work, or, more accurately, freedom from repercussion (from their employers) from political speech/protests at work against the employer's wishes. The First Amendment protects people's right to free speech from THE GOVERNMENT, not from private employers. So what Trump did was out of line, and if he acted on it it'd be undoubtedly illegal, but a private employer has the right to penalize or prohibit political speech at work. This may vary depending on state laws, but the federal laws is relatively clear on this matter, and has been confirmed in numerous cases, including some where employees were fired for much less divisive and public political protests/statements. Have you even read the First Amendment?
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  22. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    I've seen some people with at least half a brain recommending this, and it makes sense, and it's an action indicative of an actual good citizen, not just someone who claims to be one. I have several pieces of Nike clothing, shoes, etc, and I certainly won't be burning them, but I probably won't be buying more in the near future, unless they go on sale haha.

    I do get what Kaepernick (spelling?) protested about, and he brings up some legitimate points that should be addressed and we should attempt to remedy, but he's just not exactly the best face for social justice IMO. Does no one remember the Castro shirt he wore IN MIAMI, where so many people, of multiple generations, fled Cuba and Castro's dictatorship and cruelty? It was just beyond tone-deaf, and also really undermined his whole message. He wont' stand for the US anthem because of corrupt/racist police officers, but he'll wear a shirt with Castro on it? Castro, who is irrefutably worse and more corrupt than the US is today.

    From Florida Reporter George Diaz, whose family fled Cuba under Castro:
    Courtesy of Human Rights Watch, regarding Castro, who Kaepernick praised and defended:

    During his nearly five decades of rule in Cuba, Fidel Castro built a repressive system that punished virtually all forms of dissent, a dark legacy that lives on even after his death...

    Many of the abusive tactics developed during his time in power – including surveillance, beatings, arbitrary detention, and public acts of repudiation – are still used by the Cuban government...

    The denial of fundamental freedoms throughout Castro’s decades in power was unrelenting, and marked by periods of heightened repression, such as the 2003 crackdown on 75 human rights defenders, journalists, trade unionists, and other critics of the government. Accused of being “mercenaries” of the United States government, the individuals were summarily tried in closed hearings. Many served years in inhumane prisons, where they were subjected to extended solitary confinement and beatings, and denied basic medical care for serious ailments...

    Under Fidel Castro, the Cuban government refused to recognize the legitimacy of Cuban human rights organizations, alternative political parties, independent labor unions, or a free press. He also denied international monitors such as the International Committee of the Red Cross and international nongovernmental organizations like Human Rights Watch access to the island to investigate human rights conditions.
    Yes, that's so much better than what anyone in the US does, right? He undermined his entire platform when he praised and defended Castro.
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  23. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    I've seen some people with at least half a brain recommending this, and it makes sense, and it's an action indicative of an actual good citizen, not just someone who claims to be one. I have several pieces of Nike clothing, shoes, etc, and I certainly won't be burning them, but I probably won't be buying more in the near future, unless they go on sale haha.

    I do get what Kaepernick (spelling?) protested about, and he brings up some legitimate points that should be addressed and we should attempt to remedy, but he's just not exactly the best face for social justice IMO. Does no one remember the Castro shirt he wore IN MIAMI, where so many people, of multiple generations, fled Cuba and Castro's dictatorship and cruelty? It was just beyond tone-deaf, and also really undermined his whole message. He wont' stand for the US anthem because of corrupt/racist police officers, but he'll wear a shirt with Castro on it? Castro, who is irrefutably worse and more corrupt than the US is today.

    From Florida Reporter George Diaz, whose family fled Cuba under Castro:
    I didn't know anything about him doing that, I can see how people could disagree with him for that. But, I think most people who hate him probably don't even know he did that or would understand what it actually meant.

    I probably won't go out of my way to buy Nike either, but that is just because I don't care to spend that much money for clothes. Lol

  24. Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    No, it is not. On a federal level, employees have no legal right to free speech at work, or, more accurately, freedom from repercussion (from their employers) from political speech/protests at work against the employer's wishes. The First Amendment protects people's right to free speech from THE GOVERNMENT, not from private employers. So what Trump did was out of line, and if he acted on it it'd be undoubtedly illegal, but a private employer has the right to penalize or prohibit political speech at work. This may vary depending on state laws, but the federal laws is relatively clear on this matter, and has been confirmed in numerous cases, including some where employees were fired for much less divisive and public political protests/statements. Have you even read the First Amendment?
    Yep and I disagree wholeheartedly with your interpretation of the power of private corporations to limit free speech. They can attempt to discharge the employee, but that's about it.

    And i know federal employees, having been one twice... Have volunteered to limit their free speech for period of time. Your point there? Most vets who fight for free speech would support this type of protest, or prayer?

    Hit a nerve, I see.. it's crazy to see so many people misinterpret a peaceful protest.

    How about a picture of Tim Tebow... Since when was kneeling a disprectful thing?

    ((Hint when he became black and saying something political))

  25. Quote Originally Posted by rascal14 View Post
    I didn't know anything about him doing that, I can see how people could disagree with him for that. But, I think most people who hate him probably don't even know he did that or would understand what it actually meant.

    I probably won't go out of my way to buy Nike either, but that is just because I don't care to spend that much money for clothes. Lol
    I try to be consistent haha. I try not to form opinions without doing research, and sometimes Iím not always right at first haha.

    That whole Castro deal just really soured me to Kaepernick, as Castro was far worse than any USPD, and he actually defended him IN MIAMI TO CUBANS. Itís just really inconsistent with his message of equality, justice, and anti-corruption.

    Also, I think that the NFL players who are convicted domestic abusers should be the ones people hate more than people who protest. Beating a woman is way more un-American than kneeling for the anthem. But not many people are upset about the many domestic abusers still playing.
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