Florida School Shooting At Least 17 Dead

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    What site?
    His other Instagram.
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  2. Quote Originally Posted by cubsfan815 View Post
    His other Instagram.
    Can you not post a link? The only antifa picture I've seen online is of a dude who looks nothing like him.

    Also, let me be clear. Just because he's wearing a MAGA hat while firing a gun doesn't mean all Trump supporters are the same as this piece of ****. The entire reason I even jumped into this thread is because of the knee jerk reaction to yell antifa and try and paint an entire organization as bad because of one person rather than focusing on what actually happened.
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  3. This whole thread is sad.... How did even end up bickering over the invention of electricity!?!?
    All of those shootings have one other thing in common. They all had well documented mental issues. The fact is this mental health issues need to start being reported and used to restrict gun purchases. Banning gun will do nothing, the guns are already here and criminals don't follow laws. The only people that would ever "possibly" turn them in are the law abiding citizens.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    Can you not post a link? The only antifa picture I've seen online is of a dude who looks nothing like him.

    Also, let me be clear. Just because he's wearing a MAGA hat while firing a gun doesn't mean all Trump supporters are the same as this piece of ****. The entire reason I even jumped into this thread is because of the knee jerk reaction to yell antifa and try and paint an entire organization as bad because of one person rather than focusing on what actually happened.
    I'll check later, at work now. I just feel like both sides use these tragedies to keep us divided. We should mourn the victims, but we can't because it's always Left vs Right.
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  5. Quote Originally Posted by 89coupe View Post
    This whole thread is sad.... How did even end up bickering over the invention of electricity!?!?
    All of those shootings have one other thing in common. They all had well documented mental issues. The fact is this mental health issues need to start being reported and used to restrict gun purchases. Banning gun will do nothing, the guns are already here and criminals don't follow laws. The only people that would ever "possibly" turn them in are the law abiding citizens.
    Ok, so hypothetical question. Let's say one month ago, the news story was that this person in Florida had serious mental health issues and the police or FBI showed up at his house and took his guns away. You don't have to post what your reaction would have been. Just seriously think about that situation and how you would have felt. I don't know you and won't speak for you, but most if not all of my friends and family who are currently claiming that it's not a gun issue, but a mental health issue would have lost their minds! They'd be screaming about how the government is going to come for all of our guns now and label us as crazy to do so.

    Until both sides stop screaming that it's one issue or the other and compromise that it's a little bit of both, we'll be back here in about a month. It is a mental health issue, but that's a slippery ****ing slope, especially when you have the government deciding who is and who isn't. Where is the line drawn between full on schizophrenia and somebody who is upset because they just got fired or their mom died and they're looking for somebody to blame? It is a gun issue because that also is common denominator here, yet the knee jerk reaction is "they want to ban all guns!" No, but we need to have a discussion about what "well regulated" actually means. Saying that it's a mental health issue or it's a gun issue has simply become a period. People claim it and then move on without offering any solution.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    Can you not post a link? The only antifa picture I've seen online is of a dude who looks nothing like him.

    Also, let me be clear. Just because he's wearing a MAGA hat while firing a gun doesn't mean all Trump supporters are the same as this piece of ****. The entire reason I even jumped into this thread is because of the knee jerk reaction to yell antifa and try and paint an entire organization as bad because of one person rather than focusing on what actually happened.
    Who did that?

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    Ok, so hypothetical question. Let's say one month ago, the news story was that this person in Florida had serious mental health issues and the police or FBI showed up at his house and took his guns away. You don't have to post what your reaction would have been. Just seriously think about that situation and how you would have felt. I don't know you and won't speak for you, but most if not all of my friends and family who are currently claiming that it's not a gun issue, but a mental health issue would have lost their minds! They'd be screaming about how the government is going to come for all of our guns now and label us as crazy to do so.

    Until both sides stop screaming that it's one issue or the other and compromise that it's a little bit of both, we'll be back here in about a month. It is a mental health issue, but that's a slippery ****ing slope, especially when you have the government deciding who is and who isn't. Where is the line drawn between full on schizophrenia and somebody who is upset because they just got fired or their mom died and they're looking for somebody to blame? It is a gun issue because that also is common denominator here, yet the knee jerk reaction is "they want to ban all guns!" No, but we need to have a discussion about what "well regulated" actually means. Saying that it's a mental health issue or it's a gun issue has simply become a period. People claim it and then move on without offering any solution.
    I'm not arguing if one type of gun should be legal while another isn't. I just don't see how gun laws will help. The guns are here! None of the people regulations would be intended to restrict access would ever give them up. The only thing further gun regulations would do is make them illegal. Murder is illegal and that didn't stop them! What stricter regulations will do is turn a lot of law abiding citizens into criminals while at the same time making criminal even more dangerous. The more they have to lose the more dangerous a person becomes. Don't miss understand me I'm not saying I have the answer but I don't see how gun regulations or even an all out ban will solve anything! In the meantime I'll pray for the lost and families that will never be same because of their loss.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by youngandfree View Post
    Who did that?
    If you're going to pretend that this is the first time we've had a conversation about this and that you haven't continually tried to distract from other issues by crying about antifa in other threads, then I don't have time for you.
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  9. Quote Originally Posted by 89coupe View Post
    I'm not arguing if one type of gun should be legal while another isn't. I just don't see how gun laws will help. The guns are here! None of the people regulations would be intended to restrict access would ever give them up. The only thing further gun regulations would do is make them illegal. Murder is illegal and that didn't stop them! What stricter regulations will do is turn a lot of law abiding citizens into criminals while at the same time making criminal even more dangerous. The more they have to lose the more dangerous a person becomes. Don't miss understand me I'm not saying I have the answer but I don't see how gun regulations or even an all out ban will solve anything! In the meantime I'll pray for the lost and families that will never be same because of their loss.
    Nobody knows, but we need studies to be done to find out what might work. Right now those studies are not even allowed to happen. People go to extremes and that ends up going nowhere. Why do regulations help in other countries? I lived in Chicago, south side and downtown areas, for 37 years. Why do handgun regulations seem to work in other places, but not there? This is all information that we should be studying and discussing so that we can find something that works since the existing regulations do not. However, some people on one extreme are going to start claiming this is a way to grab all guns and the other extreme may very well be set on trying to do that. We need to meet in the middle and have a very blunt discussion.

    Politicians saying it's a mental health issue is just crap though when they don't even clarify what that means and then cut funding for mental health programs. And it's not just Trump or Republicans doing it. Both major parties are hypocrites on this issue.
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  10. Both major parties are hypocrites on this issue.[/QUOTE]

    Truth!!!

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    Nobody knows, but we need studies to be done to find out what might work. Right now those studies are not even allowed to happen. People go to extremes and that ends up going nowhere. Why do regulations help in other countries? I lived in Chicago, south side and downtown areas, for 37 years. Why do handgun regulations seem to work in other places, but not there? This is all information that we should be studying and discussing so that we can find something that works since the existing regulations do not. However, some people on one extreme are going to start claiming this is a way to grab all guns and the other extreme may very well be set on trying to do that. We need to meet in the middle and have a very blunt discussion.

    Politicians saying it's a mental health issue is just crap though when they don't even clarify what that means and then cut funding for mental health programs. And it's not just Trump or Republicans doing it. Both major parties are hypocrites on this issue.
    Regarding the boldened above.
    As a firearm owner I am inclined to believe it is a mental health issue as no one can be rational who choses to commit mass murder.

    Despite widespread firearms in our country, statistics do show violent crime has decreased since its peak in the 1980s. Mass shootings are on the increase. The overwhelming vast majority of firearm owners are responsible in their use of firearms. If we have the actions of very few(statistical insignificant actually as cold blooded as that reads) curtail Rights then that would be an entry point for control in other controversial subjects.

    If we did have standards for firearm ownership then the necessary machinery for it to function would be a considerable government intrusion into private life. It would open up another discussion as to what constitutes worthiness to own a firearm. That reasoning can then be extrapolated to others. Voting, the Press, being a Citizen, etc.

    I will wait for this case to be investigated and see what could have been done with existing laws. The only other school shooting I have read on, Sandy Hook, the mother introducing firearms to a severely mentally troubled person was incredibly irresponsible. Beyond belief actually.

    The U.S. system is based on individual responsibility and behaving within existing laws. There are many freedoms and It is based on the honor system. The government is large and so is the country and there are not enough resources to police it. Look at our current immigration issue. We rely on people with Visas to leave when they promise. We believe people walking down the street are here legally.
    Look at our FDA. There are not enough inspectors. We rely on manufacturers being honest in the Nutrition Fact-Supplement Facts with very little spot checking.
    When abuses occur there are penalties.

    In the case of these shootings, we look for ways to avert repetition. There is a point where corrective action infringes on a basic right which to repeat the above, the vast majority hold responsibly and also opens other issues which are even more complex and/or sensitive. Remember Stop and Frisk? Great program which was ruled unconstitutional.

    Us who are from older generations recall how life was 30-40 years ago know there is something wrong with our present culture when compared to previous. To me that is the issue. Not firearms.

  12. I am all for guns, but there needs to be more regulation to buying them.

    My sister bought me an AR. The guy at Cabela's said not to put that it is for someone else, otherwise it would get denied and they'd have to start over. She gave me the gun, and there is no law saying either of us need to do anything. The government has no idea I own multiple guns as they were all given as gifts. That is just slightly ridiculous in my opinion. If it makes it harder for me to buy another gun in order to potentially save hundreds of lives, so be it.

    It's an issue of mental health being pushed to the side AND the process of obtaining a gun. You can't blame it on one or the other, or the type of gun used for that matter. All you see now is people talking about AR 15s, just because they look different does not make them any more dangerous than another hunting rifle. A pistol, shotgun, etc could have done just as much damage.. he was in a school with crowds of children. I don't see 10 round magazine restrictions changing anything either, you can carry multiple magazines and reload in no time.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by UCSMiami View Post
    Regarding the boldened above.
    As a firearm owner I am inclined to believe it is a mental health issue as no one can be rational who choses to commit mass murder.
    Ok, let's say it's a mental health issue. What would you propose if you could have your say?
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  14. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    Ok, let's say it's a mental health issue. What would you propose if you could have your say?
    I would need a great deal of data regarding commonalities in psych profile, failures of existing laws/procedures, warning signs prior to, surviving shooter post-capture interviews, etc. I have never studied what makes people commit premeditated murder either in small nos. or in mass. Not my field although I have family who are senior law enf. pros who could fill out more of these questions. I research military history although the questions are the same-view data from different angles for commonalities as to what, why, how, even when. I am surprised our DOD and contracted think tanks are not involved as they are masters of Operational Analysis.

    I was writing a post now that to me the lynch pin of this recent shooting was the school armed officer was not present on the day of the shooting. Even as of today his whereabouts are not stated- either day off or off campus on unrelated tasks. I was reading the local newspaper published 8 hours ago on this subject.

    From my recollection of the mass school shootings with high body count, there was no armed deterrent. Mass shooters, as do common criminals, do not seek out defended targets.

  15. there are approximately 33,000 gun deaths each year in the u.s..... two-thirds of those gun deaths are by suicide.


    on the other hand there are 88,000 alcohol related deaths each year in the u.s.... where is the outcry? who is proposing banning alcohol since it presents a far greater risk to life than guns?

    you have a much higher chance of being killed by a drunk driver than by a gun...
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  16. Quote Originally Posted by UCSMiami View Post
    I would need a great deal of data regarding commonalities in psych profile, failures of existing laws/procedures, warning signs prior to, surviving shooter post-capture interviews, etc. I have never studied what makes people commit premeditated murder either in small nos. or in mass. Not my field although I have family who are senior law enf. pros who could fill out more of these questions. I research military history although the questions are the same-view data from different angles for commonalities as to what, why, how, even when. I am surprised our DOD and contracted think tanks are not involved as they are masters of Operational Analysis.

    I was writing a post now that to me the lynch pin of this recent shooting was the school armed officer was not present on the day of the shooting. Even as of today his whereabouts are not stated- either day off or off campus on unrelated tasks. I was reading the local newspaper published 8 hours ago on this subject.

    From my recollection of the mass school shootings with high body count, there was no armed deterrent. Mass shooters, as do common criminals, do not seek out defended targets.
    Five dead police officers here in Dallas that would disagree with you...
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  17. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    there are approximately 33,000 gun deaths each year in the u.s..... two-thirds of those gun deaths are by suicide.


    on the other hand there are 88,000 alcohol related deaths each year in the u.s.... where is the outcry? who is proposing banning alcohol since it presents a far greater risk to life than guns?

    you have a much higher chance of being killed by a drunk driver than by a gun...
    They already tried banning alcohol and you see how well that worked!

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    Five dead police officers here in Dallas that would disagree with you...
    I qualified my comment to school shooters from the beginning to stay on topic.

    There is politically motivated murder, religion motivated murder, common murder for enrichment, revenge murders, heat of the moment murder. maybe more categories. I think all of those would have different flow charts.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by 89coupe View Post
    They already tried banning alcohol and you see how well that worked!
    point made!!!
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  20. Quote Originally Posted by UCSMiami View Post
    I would need a great deal of data regarding commonalities in psych profile, failures of existing laws/procedures, warning signs prior to, surviving shooter post-capture interviews, etc. I have never studied what makes people commit premeditated murder either in small nos. or in mass. Not my field although I have family who are senior law enf. pros who could fill out more of these questions. I research military history although the questions are the same-view data from different angles for commonalities as to what, why, how, even when. I am surprised our DOD and contracted think tanks are not involved as they are masters of Operational Analysis.

    I was writing a post now that to me the lynch pin of this recent shooting was the school armed officer was not present on the day of the shooting. Even as of today his whereabouts are not stated- either day off or off campus on unrelated tasks. I was reading the local newspaper published 8 hours ago on this subject.

    From my recollection of the mass school shootings with high body count, there was no armed deterrent. Mass shooters, as do common criminals, do not seek out defended targets.
    The sheriff said on the radio today that the school has a 42 acre campus with multiple buildings. The officer was onsite, but apparently not at the building the shooting happened in.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by UCSMiami View Post
    I would need a great deal of data regarding commonalities in psych profile, failures of existing laws/procedures, warning signs prior to, surviving shooter post-capture interviews, etc. I have never studied what makes people commit premeditated murder either in small nos. or in mass. Not my field although I have family who are senior law enf. pros who could fill out more of these questions. I research military history although the questions are the same-view data from different angles for commonalities as to what, why, how, even when. I am surprised our DOD and contracted think tanks are not involved as they are masters of Operational Analysis.

    I was writing a post now that to me the lynch pin of this recent shooting was the school armed officer was not present on the day of the shooting. Even as of today his whereabouts are not stated- either day off or off campus on unrelated tasks. I was reading the local newspaper published 8 hours ago on this subject.

    From my recollection of the mass school shootings with high body count, there was no armed deterrent. Mass shooters, as do common criminals, do not seek out defended targets.
    Btw, you won't see these studies done as I already said. The Dickey amendment was passed in 96 after lobbying by the NRA because they didn't like what some data had to say about guns in homes. The CDC is who tells us the stats on what is killing everybody, but is not allowed to study gun violence. That's not conspiracy theory. It's a fact. We need those studies, otherwise it's guessing and finger pointing.
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  22. Quote Originally Posted by youngandfree View Post
    The sheriff said on the radio today that the school has a 42 acre campus with multiple buildings. The officer was onsite, but apparently not at the building the shooting happened in.
    Good to know. Sun-Sentinnel this morning had no info. Thanks. Well then I am willing to wager that a security expert would have advised more officers were needed due to the extent of the campus.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Aleksandar37 View Post
    If you're referring to me, I'm glad he posted evidence against what turned out to be a false story. Gold star!
    The one that posted the lie hasn't corrected it though and you aren't attacking him.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by youngandfree View Post
    The one that posted the lie hasn't corrected it though and you aren't attacking him.
    The adults are talking. Go write a 5,000 word essay on how George Washington invented water.
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  25. Quote Originally Posted by 89coupe View Post
    They already tried banning alcohol and you see how well that worked!
    and in 1971 Richard Nixon declared a 'war' on drugs......
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