Bush's Big Boner!

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    Bush's Big Boner!


    I knew that title would get your attention!

    This is what I hope you never see from me again: a criticism of George W. Bush.

    IMO he has made a HUGE mistake (boner)!

    While he continues to play games with the idiots at the U.N., the bipartisan support for military action which he had back in October has all but disappeared! Now at least one reporter at MSNBC is saying that the Democrats in Congress may actually seek to prevent military action by cutting off funding - some of the same ones who voted to authorize the use of military force back in October.

    I guess Bush was forced to delay somewhat by the need for military preparations, but he has catered FAR TOO MUCH to the U.N. He should never have pretended that world opinion really matters at all. It DOESN'T. The U.N. is a diplomatic body, and they have already FAILED to eliminate the threat posed by Iraq. It is time for military action, and since the U.N. hasn't agreed, they are no longer relevant.

    As I said in another thread, this is OUR fight. America WILL defend herself, with or without anyone else's help or permission. We are a sovereign nation, and we need to act accordingly.

    So I am royally pissed off at Bush. A man whom I elected and whom I have supported with little reservation since. But in my opinion he has really screwed up in this case! The time to attack has passed. Now we hear that the support of the American people is wavering as a result. WTF?

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    I personally feel that North Korea has shown itself as more of a threat than Iraq ever has now (which is highly questionable) or in the past. North Korea is flaunting and gloating about its nuclear potential and making countless threat against the US and her allies. I think the supposed threat of terror has severly misaligned our priorities. Paranoia about supposed indicences and the lack of evidence that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction has left a bad taste in the worlds mouth. While Bush and his cabinent sit around and try to link Iraq to this and that which may never pan out, North Korea is becoming more and more dangerous.

    I think we need to reasses our views on Iraq as a being such a serious threat and push for harder weapons inspections and employ UN peace keepers as France and Germany have suggested. With so much interference, it would impede Saddams ability to produce any type of weapons arsonal and cripple his power severly, as many scholars have suggested.
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    Its not supposed, they have ton and tons of chemical weapons.
    •   
       

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    That is a highly disputed fact. The US has no substancial proof that they actually have these chemical weapons, only hearsay and old paperwork. Frankly, I question the true reasoning behind an Iraq invasion and removing Hussein as being a guise to install a American friendly president to increase our oil supply. However, this may or may not improve the quality of life for the Iraqi people may be in question, certainly the anti-American Arabs would not be pleased by this action and surely increase terror against the US and her interests.

    I am well aware that this may be false, but you should always be at mind to question authority and its true intentions. Propoganda is always used at times of war on both sides, and just because the government says it or the western news sources, does not make it so.
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    Yes, North Korea has definitely stepped up to the plate: they're next. Their defiance practically guarantees that they'll have to be dealt with severely.

    Beyond that, I may be unusual in that I have hopes that Iran won't have to be dealt with sternly, if at all. But I feel it's long past time we stopped kissing Egyptian and Saudi ass.
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    Originally posted by DaddyR
    Beyond that, I may be unusual in that I have hopes that Iran won't have to be dealt with sternly, if at all. But I feel it's long past time we stopped kissing Egyptian and Saudi ass.
    Agreed. I believe if oil wasn't an issue, none of this would of ever happened in the first place. Hopefully, we can look into alternate methods of transportation and limit our grip on oil in general.
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    Pogue,
    Bush is moving on Iraq so it doesn't become another N. Korea: Idiot holding the bomb. If we had stopped N. Korea during that pansy Clintons time in office then we would not be here. Plus once we kick the crap out of Iraq N. Korea will quite down. Their only doing this crap because we are busy with Iraq.
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    DaddyR, I agree, nicely worded, and it does seem to me that atm N.Korea is a far more substantial threat... Saddam doesn't saber rattle like (Jon Stewart, Daily Show quote) "Bouffant Hitler"
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    Originally posted by LCSULLA
    Pogue,
    Bush is moving on Iraq so it doesn't become another N. Korea: Idiot holding the bomb. If we had stopped N. Korea during that pansy Clintons time in office then we would not be here. Plus once we kick the crap out of Iraq N. Korea will quite down. Their only doing this crap because we are busy with Iraq.
    I don't believe this is true. I see Iraq as being a very minor threat to us or its neighbors. If you have PBS in your area, I've noticed they've been running a show real early in the morning (like 2-3am) that has Colin Powell and others having discussions about what went on during the Gulf War, and they seem to reiterate that fact, but they now seem to be contridicting themselves.

    Iraq seems to have a poorly put together army, and arsenal of weapons. I seriously doubt that they could or would even put together any type of a weapon that would be a threat, I'd be even more doubtful that they could sucessfully deploy it.

    20 year old Russian tanks and fighter jets do not qualify as a modern fighting force.
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    Originally posted by pogue


    20 year old Russian tanks and fighter jets do not qualify as a modern fighting force.
    they do in the middle east! bwaahahaha!
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    Originally posted by pogue


    I don't believe this is true. I see Iraq as being a very minor threat to us or its neighbors. If you have PBS in your area, I've noticed they've been running a show real early in the morning (like 2-3am) that has Colin Powell and others having discussions about what went on during the Gulf War, and they seem to reiterate that fact, but they now seem to be contridicting themselves.

    Iraq seems to have a poorly put together army, and arsenal of weapons. I seriously doubt that they could or would even put together any type of a weapon that would be a threat, I'd be even more doubtful that they could sucessfully deploy it.

    20 year old Russian tanks and fighter jets do not qualify as a modern fighting force.
    I do agree with this. Saddam hasn't invaded any country or had major military action since the Gulf War. The guy is basically the Mayor of Baghdad, he can barely hold on to his entire country, let alone challenge the militaries of other major nations. He hasn't been an extreme threat to other countries for a decade or so now, but George does what George wants, and he'll show daddy how we can kickass!
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    We also thought we couldn't be hit on our own soil. We are already the biggest target. This is a war on terrorism. Saddam is a terrorist. He's proven it througbout history. If you looked at who the US thought was a bigger threat 3 years ago, Saddam was higher up than Bin Laden.
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    Originally posted by Bobo
    We also thought we couldn't be hit on our own soil. We are already the biggest target. This is a war on terrorism. Saddam is a terrorist. He's proven it througbout history. If you looked at who the US thought was a bigger threat 3 years ago, Saddam was higher up than Bin Laden.
    What is your reasoning for this idea? I see no reason to believe Saddam is a terrorist or has any affiliation with the groups that perpitrated the attacks on us.

    I, for one, always knew that we were going to be attacked on our soil. It was clear to me as daylight. It will happen again, and continue to happen as long as we show our presence in the middle east.
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    It will happen again, and continue to happen as long as we show our presence in the middle east.
    Very true.
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    Originally posted by pogue


    What is your reasoning for this idea? I see no reason to believe Saddam is a terrorist or has any affiliation with the groups that perpitrated the attacks on us.

    I, for one, always knew that we were going to be attacked on our soil. It was clear to me as daylight. It will happen again, and continue to happen as long as we show our presence in the middle east.
    Its called reading books.


    It will also happen peroid whether we're there or not. Its called Israel.
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    Originally posted by pogue


    I, for one, always knew that we were going to be attacked on our soil. It was clear to me as daylight. It will happen again, and continue to happen as long as we show our presence in the middle east.
    So instead of getting our hands dirty and solve the problem, you think we should forget about him and worry about our own problems. Sounds like our attitude before WW1 and WW2. History teaches us lessons and its the hesitant that will suffer. Its repeated throughout history.
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    Our support of Israel does make us a hated Nation by the Muslims. Thank God we do it anyways and do not bend to fear. That's what I love about this place.
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    Originally posted by Bobo
    So instead of getting our hands dirty and solve the problem, you think we should forget about him and worry about our own problems. Sounds like our attitude before WW1 and WW2. History teaches us lessons and its the hesitant that will suffer. Its repeated throughout history.
    I'm not trying to insult anyones opinions here, so lets keep this conversation civil. I am simply asking everyone to keep an open mind and not jump to conclusions. I want to hear better logic than "because Bush said it it must be true". I have not seen any hard conclusive evidence to support that Iraq poses a threat to us or any one of its neighbors, in its current state. This may have been true in the past, but certainly not now.

    Secondly, this situation is no where near WW2. Iraq is sitting dosile and is not invading or threating its neighbors currently, unlike N. Korea is.

    I to have read many different opinions on the matter and I still see no hard proof that anything the Bush cabinent has claimed is true. I'm also not trying to defend Hussein, because he does more harm than good. I simply don't believe war is the answer.

    If you have some articles that show some type of evidence perhaps I haven't seen, I would welcome you to post them. Otherwise, I am very current on the situation.

    Originally posted by windwords7
    Our support of Israel does make us a hated Nation by the Muslims. Thank God we do it anyways and do not bend to fear. That's what I love about this place.
    This is also true. However, I have seen conflicting reports in Western news sources and Eastern news sources detailing crimes done by the Israel army against the Palestinines, which is not commonly reported by Western news media. I'm not inferring that the Palestinines commit crimes against the Israels, but there seems to be a pretty back and forth conflicts. In Western news, you seem to get the impression that Palestine is causing all the trouble, and this is not always the case. This clearly through, is a major area of problem and some sort of resolution needs to come to this to end the violence. I think this would help solve some of the problems the Muslims have with us aligning ourselves with Israel.
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    Justice executed as result of a Palastenian attack is not a crime.
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    Originally posted by windwords7
    Justice executed as result of a Palastenian attack is not a crime.
    Bloods vs the Crips and the Jews vs the Palestines.... gang warfare is the same no matter where it is.

    Does killing one for another make it right? An eye for an eye? Hamurabis code was written on stone in ancient Assyria and is a novel look at life in ancient times. I would hope we are now more civilized, but it doesn't seem like it.

    This would be a varying matter of opinion, but it has to end somewhere.
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    Go read the many biographies about Saddam and you'll think he needs to go There's one that always plays on the history channel; has lots of good info in it, like how he executed his own brother and had his body dragged through the streets attached to a truck.

    He's high on himself totally; see all the murals? Did you know if you speak out against him as an Iraqi citizen, your tongue will be chopped off as a punishment?

    Did you know there are specific methods of torture they use by law as punishment, mostly acid baths, etc... and its for stupid ****; a huge mixup of Islamic law and Saddam's own crazy mind.

    There's too many crazy coincidences going on for me to NOT support America's fight... **** getting moved around all the time, intercepted cell phone conversations, the ring of mustard gas bombs encircling the city to keep the inhabitants inside, the copying of US and Brit army uniforms to attack the citizens with... the "oh we'll destroy our missiles that we lied about not having and create more in the meantime"
    the many MANY gigantic palaces that cover several square miles EACH... where is his money going? he says he doesn't have any and thats why Iraq's populace as a whole is starving... its not the embargos; its him squandering the money on his own ego... he's been caught trying to buy enriched plutonium before; he's given no proof of destroying anything... they've been caught several times on spy satellite moving **** away from where the inspectors are going...

    Do you really think that Bush would be this adamant about taking Saddam out if they didn't know something? This is the ****ing CIA we're talking about here...
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    Originally posted by pogue
      I have not seen any hard conclusive evidence to support that Iraq poses a threat to us or any one of its neighbors, in its current state. .
    I imagine there is alot we don't know about the amount and types of weapons that Iraq has and the intentions of Saddam.  The stuff we hear on the news is often skewed and most likely, not the complete story.   There is obviously information that is held classified for numerous reasons, let alone to keep our society from flipping out if we happend to tell them that Iraq had 3 nukes pointed at us right now...   

    Think of it this way.... You know when the you see reports on the news of where our troops are and what they are doing?  They will give us information, for example, as to where "we think" Bin Laden is and the areas we are checking out.   The information we receive must be bull**** or severely outdated..  Do you think that we would go on TV and tell what we were doing?  Its not hard for another country to get a TV and a satellite dish and listen to our news.  

    The idea is, just because you haven't heard or read anything that would propose Iraq is a threat, does not mean they aren't.  Granted, I will agree that there are probalby many other motives in using force against them beyond a threat to our country, but its just something to consider.

    WYD
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    Originally posted by pogue

    I think we need to reasses our views on Iraq as a being such a serious threat and push for harder weapons inspections
    man , i hate weapons inspections. they are all just a joke. everybody should just shrug off the results from weapons inspections. i am serious, they are just a big joke. like colin powell showed.. the iraqi's just filled several cargo trucks (in the satellite pics) from a place that was going to be inspected, and transported the stuff elseware.

    Interviews with scientists = bull****. how are we gonna get any information out of them? saddam will kill them and tortue their entire families if the scientists say anything.
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    If you want hard conclusive evidence against Iraq, I suggest trying to get a job with the National Security Agency or Defense Intelligence Agency, or some such. IF you are able to get the clearance, and your position gives you a strict NEED to know, you MIGHT be allowed to see some of that hard evidence.

    Sorry, but Joe Blow off the street will never be privy to all of what we've got on Saddam. Too dangerous to our nation and our intelligence capabilities to show all and tell all.

    As for the U.N.'s weapons inspections, they can only be effective at verifying the destruction of weapons reported by a willing and cooperative governement. They are INCAPABLE of finding anything that Saddam really wants to hide, and since Saddam has proven his unwillingness to cooperate, they are a waste of everyone's time and resources. Sure, Blix and the others would just love to keep their jobs, for as long as they can collect the big $$ for it. But let's not be stupid!

    As for Israel, I am more supportive of them than they are of themselves lately. There is no suich thing as Palestine nor Palestinians. Only squatters, mostly from Jordan. Squatters who, because of their proven danger to Isreali society, need to be driven from this, which land that God has promised to Israel. That said, anyone who wishes is free to take a stand against Israel: I will not, and I will fight any who try to make ou nation do so. You can read as well as I what the Bible says regarding those who oppose Israel.
  

  
 

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