Its official, cloning humans is banned

[YellowJacket]

Bush praises House for human cloning ban
Thursday, February 27, 2003 Posted: 7:52 PM EST (0052 GMT)


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush Thursday applauded the House of Representatives for passing legislation banning human cloning, and he urged the Senate to follow suit.

"Like most Americans, I believe human cloning is deeply troubling, and I strongly support efforts by Congress to ban all human cloning," Bush said in a written statement.

"We must advance the promise and cause of medical science, including through ethical stem cell research, yet we must do so in ways that respect human dignity and help build a culture of life. I urge the Senate to act quickly on legislation banning all human cloning."

Earlier in the day, the House, in a 241-155 vote, passed a bill banning human cloning that would impose a prison sentence of up 10 years for violators and fines beginning at $1 million.

The bill says it would be unlawful for anyone "to perform or attempt to perform human cloning; to participate in an attempt to perform human cloning; or to ship or receive for any purpose an embryo produced by human cloning or any product derived from such embryo."

The legislation gained momentum in recent months after the company Clonaid claimed it successfully cloned the first ever human in December. The company has since announced the births of four other alleged clones, although it has never produced evidence to support its claims. All of the alleged babies have been born outside the United States.

 

[DarCSA]

Only time will tell with this one. This is the news story for the next decade.

 

[pudgy]

damn thier goes my evil twin

 

[Biggs]

well, it doesnt stop idiotic alien worshipping freaks from making ridiculous and false claims from other countries... but it'll do... real pandoras box of **** here... I'd love to see the medical benefits and disease research that could come from it... but then again the last thing we need is **** getting out of hand and fat retards running around with not only other fat retards, but EXACT copies... nope, just won't do...

 

[Anxed]

Originally posted by pudgy
damn thier goes my evil twin

heh... I was gonna get me a good twin

 

[Jarconis]

I wonder at some point, maybe we already can, that we can manipulate chromosomes to some degree, and start spitting out guys with like 3 and 4 Y chromosomes.

 

[dr.mattdogg]

just curious how u guys stand on the subject. personally im all for cloning and genetic engineering. im not a huge religion person but i was raised as a roman catholic. but if god didnt intend us to clone humans than he wouldnt of made it possible. ok here goes my crazy idea that i came up with the other night while i couldnt sleep
first of all i think cloning and genetic manipulation is a way for humans to evovle because when u think about it with all the new medicines to cure diseases and such we dont really evolve anymore. we just help our sick reproduce and make more sick people with diseases. there isnt really a way for nature to weed out the weak and promote the strong anymore. so cloning is the next step where we take charge and weed out the weak genes ourselves to promote healthy individuals like nature intended. i would be interested in ur guys input whatever it may be lol.

 

[YellowJacket]

Religion or not, its disregard for human life. Im certainly not a religious guy, heretic infact, but its disrespect none the less. Cloning individuals is playing god, while I dont worhsip god, I still believe in his existence. And one things in this day and age humans can hold onto, is the fact their different from every other human being out there, you start cloning them, you're getting similiar people.... not to mention how many people will have ot be killed first before cloning is perfected?

 

[msclbldrguy]

i agree with yj..although i would come at it also from my faith as well. it does show a lack of regard for human life....all it would take would be someone like saddam or another hitler to get their grubby hands on this type of technology...i think we can all imagine the evil that would be created.

i dont necessarily have aproblem with cloning to cure someone of a disease or help them regain their ability to walk again after an accident, for example, but we all know it wouldnt stop there. And God didnt cause this to happen...He did give the ability to think, reason, discover, etc...but it was humans who choose to use those abilities and develop this technology. I say let sleeping dogs lie. And I'm kinda baffled about the evolution argument. I cant see how lack of cloning would stop evolution. And saying cloning would help evolution...who would decide who to clone? this is nothing short of playing god and it sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

 

[C-bizzle]

Damnit, I always wanted to kick my cunt in

 

[dr.mattdogg]

well i wouldnt exactly say its a disregard of life. and who is to say that we shouldnt be cloning. until god officially comes down and says clonin is bad, i wont be convinced. plus even if say sadam or hitler's dna could some how be cloned, what does that have anything to do with how they act. i believe the conscience is developed by environment, not genes. u could just as easily take mother terisas genes, and subject that kid to the kind of environment that would turn it into a hitler. genes play a small part in temperment.

as to the killing of kids that would happen in the early testing, that is unfortunate, but what about all the lives that are lost due to some types of artificial insemenation. labs take eggs and combine sperm (to make a life) then inject that into women. they have plenty of these on ice that will be discarded when they are no longer needed. life is being taken all the time, but i dont hear any bans on that?

 

[YellowJacket]

well i wouldnt exactly say its a disregard of life. and who is to say that we shouldnt be cloning. until god officially comes down and says clonin is bad, i wont be convinced. plus even if say sadam or hitler's dna could some how be cloned, what does that have anything to do with how they act. i believe the conscience is developed by environment, not genes. u could just as easily take mother terisas genes, and subject that kid to the kind of environment that would turn it into a hitler. genes play a small part in temperment.

So God has to come down and tell you that? I thought it was common knowledge, ever heard of the bible? Im not talking about temperment, Im talking about recreational cloning of individuals for no apparent reason. Its bullshit and wont ever be done, this is worse than abortion in my opinion. All I can say is, whoever performs the cloning better stay anonymous.

as to the killing of kids that would happen in the early testing, that is unfortunate, but what about all the lives that are lost due to some types of artificial insemenation. labs take eggs and combine sperm (to make a life) then inject that into women. they have plenty of these on ice that will be discarded when they are no longer needed. life is being taken all the time, but i dont hear any bans on that?

No way man, you're comparing cloning human beings to artifical insemenation. Like comparing apples to oranges. Those lives lost performing artificial insemenations are unfortunate, the deaths caused by cloning are unnecessary.

 

[Biggs]

does the "soul" exist, and how does it relate to one's "conscience"? these would be my questions... we may be products of our environment/experiences, but some things are innate? and do these inherent qualities pre-existant to one's life experiences prove existence of a seperate "soul", that exists beyond physical death? lastly, the real question: would a clone be fully possessant of these two (one?) characteristics... just some thoughts

 

[dr.mattdogg]

ok yellow jacket, first of all dont take offense to any of this, it is just my views like u have ur views. but i understand ppl do get pretty fired up about these subjects.
but where in the bible does it say man shall not clone man. if its in there id like u to point it out for me. refer me to a page #. but anyways, cloning will go on no matter what u, the government, or i think. scientists will go under ground and do these experiments as they have already started to do. its enevitable. scientists have gotten a taste of cloning and there are not just going to drop their work just because some government or morals say otherwise. and this is not needless deaths that are comin from cloning, just for theoretical sake, that albert einsteins genes are cloned and this kid grows up to do amazing things that would have never thought possible and he figures out a way to cure all kinds of disease, now do u still say this is needless death when many lives could be saved? sometimes the ends justify the means, but then again sometimes they dont.

as to biggins response i do believe in a soul and i cant really say when it developes, i dont think a soul is apparent after conception, but sometime later. a soul makes u who u are, and all babies can be testsed and they all come out the same. they all act a certain way to certain stimulus. more of an instinctual response rather than a conscience response. well i think im running out of room so ill stop here but id like to discuss more for whoever wants to talk about it. hope my reply gives u all some food for thought.

 

[C-bizzle]

The bible? I don't read fictional writing so don't ever point me to that heap of ****.

If Jesus was born in todays time (Assuming he's real *ahem*), he would be in some sort of mental institution. For all you people know, he was a scitzo, or had another metal problem.

I have to say, I really fucking hate anyone that follows a religion.

But that's getting of the point and I'm sure if I went on any further a few warnings would come my way.

Ps. No I will not respect your stupid beliefs.

 

[msclbldrguy]

The bible? I don't read fictional writing so don't ever point me to that heap of ****.

If Jesus was born in todays time (Assuming he's real *ahem*), he would be in some sort of mental institution. For all you people know, he was a scitzo, or had another metal problem.

I have to say, I really fucking hate anyone that follows a religion.

But that's getting of the point and I'm sure if I went on any further a few warnings would come my way.

Ps. No I will not respect your stupid beliefs.

If you are joking, this is not funny. Else you are way off base, both in terms of this thread's subject and the manner in which you express your opinions. No one should have a problem with someone adopting a different set of beliefs...but to take this kind of approach is both immature and completely unnecessary.

dr mattdog..As for God explicitly saying cloning is wrong, that makes Scripture a rulebook...which is not what it's intended to be. As for whether cloning is right or not, I do not believe it is and I'm not talking about cloning something like Hilter or any other madman. "Society" could decide it only wanted children of a particular race, or any other characteristic. This isnt and shouldnt be up to humans. And frankly, I dont see any difference in this and killing people of a particular race, religion, etc. This is wrong either way. There will always be unethical folks out there and cloning threatens basic human dignity, IMO.

 

[dr.mattdogg]

The bible? I don't read fictional writing so don't ever point me to that heap of ****.

If Jesus was born in todays time (Assuming he's real *ahem*), he would be in some sort of mental institution. For all you people know, he was a scitzo, or had another metal problem.

I have to say, I really fucking hate anyone that follows a religion.

But that's getting of the point and I'm sure if I went on any further a few warnings would come my way.

Ps. No I will not respect your stupid beliefs.

ok colibri, first of all, ur msg does not even pertain to anything this post is about, so i suggest if ur not going to add anything intelligent to the conversation, that u just go find another forum to post on. second who are u to criticize what other ppl believe in, who is to say that u are right and others are wrong. for example, some ppl may like the color blue, and u dont, does that give u the right to say they are wrong in liking the color blue? and also hating someone because of their religion just shows how ignorant u really are, looks like u have some growing up to do.

 

[C-bizzle]

1. Their is a major difference between colours and religion.

2. I did not state that I hate any one for anything religously related.

Before making false claims and onto personal insults, learn to interpret a post properly first.

 

[dr.mattdogg]

"I have to say, I really fucking hate anyone that follows a religion." -Colibri

"2. I did not state that I hate any one for anything religously related" -Colibri

unless my eyes are decieving me, u did type that right? did u forget that u wrote the top statement or something? i am actually baffled? you are actually either a compulsive lier or a complete moron. u actually are makin no sense, try stating some intelligent statements next time. Unless u can make some more sense im just going to completely disregard anything u have to say.

 

[DaddyR]

YJ I'm surprised you missed this: nothing's official yet. It passed the House. It has yet to make it through the Senate, where all sorts of good bills either die or get mangled beyond recognition. Until President Bush signs it into law, it ain't much of nothing. Unfortunately, IMO.

I support a total ban, but my main concern is with the loss of innocent life involved. A clone is just another human. I don't much care how that human was produced. It's the necessity of making and killing lots of babies in the process that offends me.

I personally oppose the use of unborn children, from the moment of conception, for research of any kind. Because I pay taxes which pay for abortions, to some extent I already have the blood of millions of innocent babies on my head. But at least I pay those taxes under duress. The thing that worries me is the possibility of being cured of some horrid (or not-so-horrid) disease by a treatment that was developed on the basis of science that involved the intentional killing of unborn children.

One can choose whatever they want to believe about abortion. I'm not going to make them do it nor keep them from doing it to themselves and their child. That's their business and for the most part the blood is on their own head.

But I refuse to have the blood of innocents poured on my head because the medical profession becomes tainted by the use of fetal stem cells, fetal cell cultures, etc. in basic research. And I darned sure don't want to be denied proper medical care because some idiot has chosen to take a shortcut and killed babies to learn what they should have learned by less controversial means.

I myself suffer from a potentially fatal, chronic, currently incurable disease. If they find a cure for it, I would like to be able to take it. But I will not if it is developed as a result of the intentional killing of unborn children. So this issue has very clear and personal implications for me.

In short, I'll try and respect the opinions of those who don't see anything wrong with killing the unborn. But I will REFUSE to allow them to force THEIR beliefs on ME by introducing it into mainstream medical research!

 

[C-bizzle]

Simple mistake, still don't remember posting that.

Ah well, my point stands and that's that, you can't change, no one can so eeither live with it or ignore it.

 

[windwords7]

It will pass soon enough.

 

[Conceptions]

Quick ban cloning before they clone Colibri!

 

[dr.mattdogg]

hahah good call man