hmmm....

[JudoJosh]

So we had a huge thread titled "I am for phil" thread which was essentially an outrage over the suspension for Phil Robertson. Phil Robertson was suspended by A&E over the remarks he made during an interview. As a consequence of his comments in the interview he was suspended and then came the outrage. People were crying that this was a violation of his constitutional first amendment right, that this was an example of the man coming down on the little guy, that Phil was just standing up for what is morally right and was being attacked for standing for it, that he was being condemned for his morals, etc.

So the thread kinda lost traction and spun off in a lot of different ways. So instead of posting this question in that thread I decided to ask it in a new thread.

My question is: Where is the "I am for Chris Kluwe" thread at? Where is the outrage for him?

For those unfamiliar with what happened to Chris see - I Was An NFL Player Until I Was Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot

Basically he was fired for standing up for his morals and defending the rights of others. Big difference between Robertson and Kluwe (other than the obvious one about which side of the issue they stand on) is that with Kluwe we know that his actions didn't violate his contract and with Robertson we don't. (Robertson most likely did violate his contract considering that he was suspended for the specific incident and if it wasn't stipulated in his contract A&E would be setting themselves up for a lawsuit).

So to everyone who was defending Robertson in the "I am for phil" thread I am curious to know, where do you stand on this?

 

[Piston Honda]

In before cutting and pasting of tripe passing as deep thoughts

 

[mountainman33]

In before cutting and pasting of tripe passing as deep thoughts

In too, curious to see where this goes.

 

[JudoJosh]

Not tryna start a big argument here just pointing something out.

I think it is interesting how this happened to Kluwe and it barely makes any aort of significant media coverage and then Robertson gets suspended and eberyone is all up in arms.

I just find it interesting especially considering that the suspension of Robertson was probably justified while the termination of Kluwe wasnt.

So anyone care to guess why Robertsons suspension was a big deal and Kluwes termination wasnt?

The more conservative like to play this victimization card and constantly cry about how mean the mainstrem media is and how they are constently being persecuted for their beliefs. Well here we see a man standing up for his beliefs and getting fired for it. If the mainstream media is so bias then why havent they exploited this? Especially this the issie he was advocating is an issie the most liberal also advocate for.

 

[Piston Honda]

I'll take religion for $1000 Alex.

 

[mountainman33]

I think it had a lot to do with exposure. How many people know about duck dynasty vs. know who Kluwe is and what his profession even is. Don't get me wrong, I think Kluwe has a better case, but Robertson is on tv regularly and has a huge National following.

 

[JudoJosh]

I think it had a lot to do with exposure. How many people know about duck dynasty vs. know who Kluwe is and what his profession even is. Don't get me wrong, I think Kluwe has a better case, but Robertson is on tv regularly and has a huge National following.

Valid point

 

[Rodja]

I raised a similar point about Riley Cooper and nobody saying they supported him. Was it a huge mistake and a major slur? Yes, but I didn't hear a single person saying anything about free speech at that point.

 

[youngandfree]

Apparently you are the only one moved enough to start the thread. So why didn't you start it sooner?

 

[fueledpassion]

I dont think Duck Dynasty was special other than that due to the popularity of the show the situation was exploited. Media loves starting crap if it means more onlookers.

 

[Rodja]

I dont think Duck Dynasty was special other than that due to the popularity of the show the situation was exploited. Media loves starting crap if it means more onlookers.

This is one of the rare situations where I'd say the media didn't elevate the level of the moment. I didn't have a clue what happened, but I kept seeing thousands of likes popping up on my Facebook feed supporting Phil. Granted, most of them were far too right winged zealots that were, erroneously, slamming down the free speech gavel on an issue that is entirely separate from free speech.

 

[fueledpassion]

This is one of the rare situations where I'd say the media didn't elevate the level of the moment. I didn't have a clue what happened, but I kept seeing thousands of likes popping up on my Facebook feed supporting Phil. Granted, most of them were far too right winged zealots that were, erroneously, slamming down the free speech gavel on an issue that is entirely separate from free speech.

And I discovered it from internet media.

Basically, we'd likely never heard any of this if we didnt have internet, lol.

Either way, Duck Commander now has their own modified line of shotguns which is cool. Mossberg I think?

 

[BoneDaddy]

I agree with everything you said Josh. The big difference is simple: They weren't pissed simply because Phil got suspended for stating his beliefs....they were pissed because Phil got suspended for stating beliefs they had in common. Since they don't agree with Kluwe, they don't give 2 $hits. Of all the travesties and injustices in the world, the religious right( an ironic term if I've ever heard one.....) will cherry pick all day long. I'm not saying that to provoke, anger, or ridicule anyone.....that's just the way it is.

 

[keithgeiling]

One of the big differences is political figures. One of the first ones to cry "freedom of speech" for Phil was Sarah Palin. She is dumb enough to think it was about "freedom of speech". If some people did actually sit on the fence with there belief of homosexuality or equal rights they can easily be Influenced by a talking head from either party. If Hillary or Obama mentioned Kluwe then it would spread like wildfire!!

 

[fueledpassion]

I agree with everything you said Josh. The big difference is simple: They weren't pissed simply because Phil got suspended for stating his beliefs....they were pissed because Phil got suspended for stating beliefs they had in common. Since they don't agree with Kluwe, they don't give 2 $hits. Of all the travesties and injustices in the world, the religious right( an ironic term if I've ever heard one.....) will cherry pick all day long. I'm not saying that to provoke, anger, or ridicule anyone.....that's just the way it is.

The thing that is offensive is NOT what u just said but that because I am a "true" Christian, I get thrown into the "religious" group. Honestly, for those that Paul, James and Peter describe, we arent religious at all and could give two cents what the law has to say about "tough topics" like abortion, gay rights and other "religions". I'll be glad when the "church-goers" and hypocrits stop goin to church and give up on religion. They walk out of the church praising God in one half their breath and then go out judging and treating the shamed w/ more shame and identifying others as "those people" and in general are the ipitomy of anti-Gospel - they do this with the other half of the same breath.

Its sickening but remember that hypocrisy and pride exists in and out of the church and does not need the help of religion to exist.

And I believe the liberal left has far more influence on our culture than the conservative right. I believe the facts strongly support that trend, too.

 

[JudoJosh]

One of the big differences is political figures. One of the first ones to cry "freedom of speech" for Phil was Sarah Palin. She is dumb enough to think it was about "freedom of speech". If some people did actually sit on the fence with there belief of homosexuality or equal rights they can easily be Influenced by a talking head from either party. If Hillary or Obama mentioned Kluwe then it would spread like wildfire!!

I wonder what the media response would have been if that had happened

 

[JudoJosh]

The thing that is offensive is NOT what u just said but that because I am a "true" Christian, I get thrown into the "religious" group. Honestly, for those that Paul, James and Peter describe, we arent religious at all and could give two cents what the law has to say about "tough topics" like abortion, gay rights and other "religions". I'll be glad when the "church-goers" and hypocrits stop goin to church and give up on religion. They walk out of the church praising God in one half their breath and then go out judging and treating the shamed w/ more shame and identifying others as "those people" and in general are the ipitomy of anti-Gospel - they do this with the other half of the same breath.

Its sickening but remember that hypocrisy and pride exists in and out of the church and does not need the help of religion to exist.

Nicely put

And I believe the liberal left has far more influence on our culture than the conservative right. I believe the facts strongly support that trend, too.

except for this. If the liberal left had as much influence as the conservative right then issues such as abortion, gun regulation, global warming, evolution, etc wouldn't be still considered controversial topics. Looks at most other affluent countries and these debates do not exist. Only in America is something as basic as evolution considered a controversial issue.

 

[Touey]

The thing that is offensive is NOT what u just said but that because I am a "true" Christian, I get thrown into the "religious" group. Honestly, for those that Paul, James and Peter describe, we arent religious at all and could give two cents what the law has to say about "tough topics" like abortion, gay rights and other "religions". I'll be glad when the "church-goers" and hypocrits stop goin to church and give up on religion. They walk out of the church praising God in one half their breath and then go out judging and treating the shamed w/ more shame and identifying others as "those people" and in general are the ipitomy of anti-Gospel - they do this with the other half of the same breath.

Its sickening but remember that hypocrisy and pride exists in and out of the church and does not need the help of religion to exist.

And I believe the liberal left has far more influence on our culture than the conservative right. I believe the facts strongly support that trend, too.

I agree the call is to try and love thy neighbor, to hate the sin not the sinner, judge not lest ye be judged, however Christians must never compromise beliefs for popularity but be salt and light nor cease to stand up for those who have no voice, the innocent aborted unprotected whom God loves, after all "these" people have no rights according to laws of men.

 

[Piston Honda]

... Christians must never compromise beliefs for popularity ... nor cease to stand up for those who have no voice, ... after all "these" people have no rights according to laws of men.

1) The fact they're not willing to compromise is the issue

2) If people have no voice, it's because the church intimidates them, punishes them, demonizes them, or silences them

3) The laws of men have been influenced by the church and religious belief systems.

4) You use "laws of men" without explaining what the hell that even means. Different than the laws of horses? Aliens? Carrots?

 

[fueledpassion]

I agree the call is to try and love thy neighbor, to hate the sin not the sinner, judge not lest ye be judged, however Christians must never compromise beliefs for popularity but be salt and light nor cease to stand up for those who have no voice, the innocent aborted unprotected whom God loves, after all "these" people have no rights according to laws of men.

Well, I dont compromise myself but man, I aint goin around trying to change others that are not like me. God doesnt command us to do that, He just commands us to love folks and bear the good news. As far as I'm concerned, I cant even change myself, much less try to convince a gay dude to not be gay or whatever else. I believe we're all pathetically broken people and its unfortunate that our church institution has become prideful and somehow "above" this brokenness. Its the reason we lean on the cross and it fuels our grace to others.

Look, I wouldnt dare compromise in what I believe is the standard of our Consciousness and I dont want the atheists and non-believers to hear that. What does concern me about the conservatively religious today is how they're not winning the argument nor are they compelling or attractive to the non-believing. This isnt the way of Christ and I'm just settin the record straight with others.

If we lived as our biblical Christian ancestors, the Christian "religion" would feel more like freedom and holiness to the unbelieving crowd rather than chains, bigotry and hypocrisy.

Needless to say, I'm excited about the wolves leaving our Church that it might be recognized as holy and helpful to society again.

 

[Touey]

I believe we're all pathetically broken people... Its the reason we lean on the cross and it fuels our grace to others.

fragile jars of clay..It is brilliant how God may use even the most earthen of jars to hold enough to reach just who He has intended

 

[fueledpassion]

And to JudoJosh, I'm referring to the trend in influence. We're in the middle of the same transition from Christendom society to Post Christendom society like western Europe experienced some 50-75 years ago. Things to expect:

-Abolishing the right to bear arms
-Gay marriage legality across all 50 states
-Various socialist agendas such as redistribution of wealth (as seen in Obamacare)
-Empty churches
- Christians live life at the margins and get persecuted beyond anything ever before in this country.

I look forward to the struggle. It means my faith must grow in order to rise above the odds

So hold fast Judo, ur time is coming to spit on us (if u wish) without any consequence from a legal standpoint.

 

[mountainman33]

4) You use "laws of men" without explaining what the hell that even means. Different than the laws of horses? Aliens? Carrots?

It's Touey man, the cut and paste king.

 

[Touey]

I agree the call is to try and love thy neighbor, to hate the sin not the sinner, judge not lest ye be judged, however Christians must never compromise beliefs for popularity but be salt and light nor cease to stand up for those who have no voice, the innocent aborted unprotected whom God loves, after all "these" people have no rights according to laws of men.

It's Touey man, the cut and paste king.

I cut that one right out the paste of my Toueytruism

 

[JudoJosh]

Well, I dont compromise myself but man, I aint goin around trying to change others that are not like me. God doesnt command us to do that, He just commands us to love folks and bear the good news. As far as I'm concerned, I cant even change myself, much less try to convince a gay dude to not be gay or whatever else. I believe we're all pathetically broken people and its unfortunate that our church institution has become prideful and somehow "above" this brokenness. Its the reason we lean on the cross and it fuels our grace to others.

Look, I wouldnt dare compromise in what I believe is the standard of our Consciousness and I dont want the atheists and non-believers to hear that. What does concern me about the conservatively religious today is how they're not winning the argument nor are they compelling or attractive to the non-believing. This isnt the way of Christ and I'm just settin the record straight with others.

If we lived as our biblical Christian ancestors, the Christian "religion" would feel more like freedom and holiness to the unbelieving crowd rather than chains, bigotry and hypocrisy.

Needless to say, I'm excited about the wolves leaving our Church that it might be recognized as holy and helpful to society again.

Bravo sir. I wish more religious people were like you. Nice change from what I typucally encounter

 

[fueledpassion]

Bravo sir. I wish more religious people were like you. Nice change from what I typucally encounter

But u wont find many because those folks r religious.

Religious is not synonymous with holiness.

 

[Rodja]

And to JudoJosh, I'm referring to the trend in influence. We're in the middle of the same transition from Christendom society to Post Christendom society like western Europe experienced some 50-75 years ago. Things to expect: -Abolishing the right to bear arms -Gay marriage legality across all 50 states -Various socialist agendas such as redistribution of wealth (as seen in Obamacare) -Empty churches - Christians live life at the margins and get persecuted beyond anything ever before in this country. I look forward to the struggle. It means my faith must grow in order to rise above the odds So hold fast Judo, ur time is coming to spit on us (if u wish) without any consequence from a legal standpoint.

Where is this Christian persecution happening in America?

There's a myriad of ways in which America could learn from Western Europe with the most prominent being socialized medicine. Isn't one of the bigger Christian paramounts healing the sick?

 

[BoneDaddy]

Where is this Christian persecution happening in America?

There's a myriad of ways in which America could learn from Western Europe with the most prominent being socialized medicine. Isn't one of the bigger Christian paramounts healing the sick?

Only if Jesus did it for free......

 

[fueledpassion]

Where is this Christian persecution happening in America?

There's a myriad of ways in which America could learn from Western Europe with the most prominent being socialized medicine. Isn't one of the bigger Christian paramounts healing the sick?

Not saying persecution really exists in America at this point - but will be increasing as we get pushed to the margins. Persecution of Christians largely exists in third world and developing countries. Didnt mean to say it was a current issue now and it will be ages before its really bad in the Western world.

I believe in socialism so long as its a privately funded and managed concept.

Socialist agendas created privately and willfully communicates loves and compassion.

Socialist agendas created by law or a forced hand communicates entitlement.

Entitlement leads to mediocrity which then has a host of concerns for any civilization to thrive. We're already experiencing said consequences now with nearly a third of the population on some sort of government welfare and a 5th of the population living below poverty level.

I, for one, believe socialism should be captured by businesses that are able to link capitalism to socialism through a goodwill mission. A mission that is able to help the needy yet make an honest profit in doing so.

No ones hand should be forced to do the right thing lest his intention of goodwill gets lost. For "against such things there is no law".

But laws against evil and wrong intentions makes total sense. I've accepted that the world chooses to rip the meaning of love out of good deeds by forcing hands to do it. The irony of living in a country of freedoms is that freedom really seems to be an illusion, IMO.

 

[Rodja]

Not saying persecution really exists in America at this point - but will be increasing as we get pushed to the margins. Persecution of Christians largely exists in third world and developing countries. Didnt mean to say it was a current issue now and it will be ages before its really bad in the Western world. I believe in socialism so long as its a privately funded and managed concept. Socialist agendas created privately and willfully communicates loves and compassion. Socialist agendas created by law or a forced hand communicates entitlement. Entitlement leads to mediocrity which then has a host of concerns for any civilization to thrive. We're already experiencing said consequences now with nearly a third of the population on some sort of government welfare and a 5th of the population living below poverty level. I, for one, believe socialism should be captured by businesses that are able to link capitalism to socialism through a goodwill mission. A mission that is able to help the needy yet make an honest profit in doing so. No ones hand should be forced to do the right thing lest his intention of goodwill gets lost. For "against such things there is no law". But laws against evil and wrong intentions makes total sense. I've accepted that the world chooses to rip the meaning of love out of good deeds by forcing hands to do it. The irony of living in a country of freedoms is that freedom really seems to be an illusion, IMO.

There is zero persecution of any religion in America. Although we're not a "Christian nation," we are still predominantly (by a wide margin) Christian. This marginalization just sounds like paranoia and failure to accept change in the world.

Entitlement and socialism do not go together. To pinpoint this disturbing trend in America, is overly simplistic and has been slowly turning that way for decades thanks to lovely initiatives like lowered education standards, the self-esteem movement, and the general pussification of America. We're becoming entitled snobs because the younger generations grew up without ever being told no and think they deserve a certain amount in life.

 

[BoneDaddy]

Not saying persecution really exists in America at this point - but will be increasing as we get pushed to the margins. Persecution of Christians largely exists in third world and developing countries. Didnt mean to say it was a current issue now and it will be ages before its really bad in the Western world.

I believe in socialism so long as its a privately funded and managed concept.

Socialist agendas created privately and willfully communicates loves and compassion.

Socialist agendas created by law or a forced hand communicates entitlement.

Entitlement leads to mediocrity which then has a host of concerns for any civilization to thrive. We're already experiencing said consequences now with nearly a third of the population on some sort of government welfare and a 5th of the population living below poverty level.

I, for one, believe socialism should be captured by businesses that are able to link capitalism to socialism through a goodwill mission. A mission that is able to help the needy yet make an honest profit in doing so.

No ones hand should be forced to do the right thing lest his intention of goodwill gets lost. For "against such things there is no law".

But laws against evil and wrong intentions makes total sense. I've accepted that the world chooses to rip the meaning of love out of good deeds by forcing hands to do it. The irony of living in a country of freedoms is that freedom really seems to be an illusion, IMO.

When does it cross the line from assistance to entitlement? Should we get rid of Pell Grants because it communicates entitlement? What about Medicade or Medicare? Would you REALLY say that a third of the population on some sort of government welfare is a consequence of having said welfare available?

And FYI, 30% of Americans are not on Welfare.....that would be 4.1% of the population.

 

[fueledpassion]

There is zero persecution of any religion in America. Although we're not a "Christian nation," we are still predominantly (by a wide margin) Christian. This marginalization just sounds like paranoia and failure to accept change in the world.

Entitlement and socialism do not go together. To pinpoint this disturbing trend in America, is overly simplistic and has been slowly turning that way for decades thanks to lovely initiatives like lowered education standards, the self-esteem movement, and the general pussification of America. We're becoming entitled snobs because the younger generations grew up without ever being told no and think they deserve a certain amount in life.

Ok. You clearly didnt read my comment very carefully regarding persecution. Buts its no big deal. So lets just settle the debate by saying it doesnt matter what I have to say or what my perspective is because yours is right regardless.

So u can at least understand where my logic comes from:

If you were in need of money and someone who did not owe you anything came to you and offered the needed money, you'd be grateful, right? Now lets say you later found out that they were forced to help you because someone else who you owed regular money to forced this random person to help you out...

Which of the parties REALLY cared about your well-being? Which party genuinely loved?

Furthermore, had the man who helped was NOT forced to do so and saw that you were in need and had compassion on you, might he have "gone the extra mile" to help you?

Laws not only define what is unlawful but they inevitably define the bare minimum acceptance, too which is where mediocrity and lack of compassion comes from.

The point isnt how we got here, the point is that we ARE here and people feel entitled therefore we have entitlement laws all over the place.

 

[Rodja]

Ok. You clearly didnt read my comment very carefully regarding persecution. Buts its no big deal. So lets just settle the debate by saying it doesnt matter what I have to say or what my perspective is because yours is right regardless.

So u can at least understand where my logic comes from:

If you were in need of money and someone who did not owe you anything came to you and offered the needed money, you'd be grateful, right? Now lets say you later found out that they were forced to help you because someone else who you owed regular money to forced this random person to help you out...

Which of the parties REALLY cared about your well-being? Which party genuinely loved?

Furthermore, had the man who helped was NOT forced to do so and saw that you were in need and had compassion on you, might he have "gone the extra mile" to help you?

Laws not only define what is unlawful but they inevitably define the bare minimum acceptance, too which is where mediocrity and lack of compassion comes from.

The point isnt how we got here, the point is that we ARE here and people feel entitled therefore we have entitlement laws all over the place.

I read your point regarding persecution and did not take it in the literal sense of legal persecution. It also doesn't make any sense even in the non-corporal punishment definition. There's a greater awareness to other cultures and perspectives due to increased mediums and that automatically makes Christianity now marginalized? It makes Christians out to sound like whiny brats that are no longer getting their way and throwing a tantrum.

Your "logic" is merely a slippery slope fallacy.

 

[fueledpassion]

When does it cross the line from assistance to entitlement? Should we get rid of Pell Grants because it communicates entitlement? What about Medicade or Medicare? Would you REALLY say that a third of the population on some sort of government welfare is a consequence of having said welfare available?

And FYI, 30% of Americans are not on Welfare.....that would be 4.1% of the population.

I should have said government "assistance". In food stamps alone, as of 2012 & 2013, we had nearly $50 Million people participating in the SNAP program alone and that includes my oldest brother, who for 24 months was an unemployed (Partly by choice) Chemical Engineer..

http://frac.org/reports-and-resources/snapfood-stamp-monthly-participation-data/#2dec

The last paragraph is an interesting point on this link too: http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/arnold-ahlert/welfare-state-madness/


And in this artcle, it shows that: "...Separately, The Wall Street Journal found that in 2011, 49 percent of Americans lived in a household where at least one member of the family received a government benefit." http://blog.heritage.org/2012/09/18/dependence-on-government-vs-the-american-dream/

Even worse, nearly half the nation pays no income tax! I didn't mean to go down a rabbit hole though and so I'm leaving it with these links. If you don't see the same way I'm seeing it -- its ok! We're in America and no one should be forced to view things the same way.

 

[fueledpassion]

I read your point regarding persecution and did not take it in the literal sense of legal persecution. It also doesn't make any sense even in the non-corporal punishment definition. There's a greater awareness to other cultures and perspectives due to increased mediums and that automatically makes Christianity now marginalized? It makes Christians out to sound like whiny brats that are no longer getting their way and throwing a tantrum.

Your "logic" is merely a slippery slope fallacy.

No, here again, really taking what I say and adding small key strokes to it. We're in a process of moving into a post-Christendom society which means its not completely finished changing. In fact, we're just getting started. No one is whining. You must not have read my previous posts, either. As I said:

"I look forward to the struggle. It means my faith must grow in order to rise above the odds"

Anyhow, I sincerely advise you to not be so condescending to others who view things differently from yourself. Otherwise, it'll be you that gets accused of being extreme, unwilling & un-American. If you want "progress" as so many shout about these days, you have to be considerate, compassionate and most importantly - humble. Otherwise, this shift in society will not be an easy one. Besides, its the right thing to do.

For what its worth, I came to my position by surrounding myself with different Christians from myself. By different, I mean more liberal ones. Furthermore, I stopped finding my identify in what "I think" and starting finding my identity in Christ. By doing this, I was willing to forfeit my hard conservative lines to something that is a bit more productive. It doesn't mean my values are compromised, it just means my values are geared to serve everyone and not just myself or my party or my family dynamics, etc.

While I know that you cant find your identity in Christ, you could at least find it in something that doesn't create "hard lines" in your opinions and perspectives. Something that drives you to make other peoples lives better. Find your I.D. in something that serves others over self.

Try it sometime. I actually recommend for everyone to try it. It's actually liberating (no pun intended).

 

[Rodja]

I should have said government "assistance". In food stamps alone, as of 2012 & 2013, we had nearly $50 Million people participating in the SNAP program alone.

http://frac.org/reports-and-resources/snapfood-stamp-monthly-participation-data/#2dec

The last paragraph is an interesting point on this link too: http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/arnold-ahlert/welfare-state-madness/


And in this artcle, it shows that: "...Separately, The Wall Street Journal found that in 2011, 49 percent of Americans lived in a household where at least one member of the family received a government benefit." http://blog.heritage.org/2012/09/18/dependence-on-government-vs-the-american-dream/

Even worse, nearly half the nation pays no income tax! I didn't mean to go down a rabbit hole though and so I'm leaving it with these links. If you don't see the same way I'm seeing it -- its ok! We're in America and no one should be forced to view things the same way.

Lumping Social Security and student loans into the same category as TANF or SNAP is very misleading. However, I do agree that disability is far too lax in the US, but numbers right now are going to be higher than they have been for the last 20 years due to both the Baby Boomers getting older, veterans returning from deployment, and, unfortunately, the new classification of obesity as a disease.

 

[fueledpassion]

Lumping Social Security and student loans into the same category as TANF or SNAP is very misleading. However, I do agree that disability is far too lax in the US, but numbers right now are going to be higher than they have been for the last 20 years due to both the Baby Boomers getting older, veterans returning from deployment, and, unfortunately, the new classification of obesity as a disease.

There is truth in that.

I have this opinion because of my own family member who I watched exploit the system rather than pick himself up and attempt to find more jobs. He was receiving $800/month in SNAP support and didn't want to get a "low paying job" because he'd be working 30-40 hrs/weekly and only making a few hundred more dollars.

This was especially true while he had unemployment income too. Between the two, he made NO attempt to find a job, period. There are many more that take advantage of several federal and state programs and between the multiple programs, they can live off of them. Maybe not high on the hog but hey, they aint gotta work. This is an increasing trend at least in the more poverty stricken areas of the country like the southeast.

 

[Rodja]

No, here again, really taking what I say and adding small key strokes to it. We're in a process of moving into a post-Christendom society which means its not completely finished changing. In fact, we're just getting started. No one is whining. You must not have read my previous posts, either. As I said:

"I look forward to the struggle. It means my faith must grow in order to rise above the odds"

Anyhow, I sincerely advise you to not be so condescending to others who view things differently from yourself. Otherwise, it'll be you that gets accused of being extreme, unwilling & un-American. If you want "progress" as so many shout about these days, you have to be considerate, compassionate and most importantly - humble. Otherwise, this shift in society will not be an easy one. Besides, its the right thing to do.

For what its worth, I came to my position by surrounding myself with different Christians from myself. By different, I mean more liberal ones. Furthermore, I stopped finding my identify in what "I think" and starting finding my identity in Christ. By doing this, I was willing to forfeit my hard conservative lines to something that is a bit more productive. It doesn't mean my values are compromised, it just means my values are geared to serve everyone and not just myself or my party or my family dynamics, etc.

While I know that you cant find your identity in Christ, you could at least find it in something that doesn't create "hard lines" in your opinions and perspectives. Something that drives you to make other peoples lives better. Find your I.D. in something that serves others over self.

Try it sometime. I actually recommend for everyone to try it. It's actually liberating (no pun intended).

I get so tired of hearing that crap. It serves no purpose to the intellectual crowd in the world. I've read all of your posts. How exactly does saying your position, and the viewpoint of Christianity in general, will become marginalized not sound like whining? To me, and many, it sounds like a child that is no longer getting their way in the world and can't deal with the fact that the dynamic in the country is changing. It's funny how you read condescension in my posts, yet can't see the same thing in your posts with your quasi-humility.

While you may have surrounded yourself with different Christians, using this to drive home some sort of proof of a willingness to see beyond your scope is laughable. The overall core values are going to be the same and it's not going to paint an accurate picture of anything. I call this applying a fishbowl to an ocean. You can't take a small sample size and apply it to a larger scenario. Living in Texas all of my life has put me in a major hub of deep-rooted religion and it hurts my head listening to the lack of logic that comes from some of these so-called "Christians" that use it as a decoy for bigotry.

The greatest irony of all of this is that I very much have assimilated many of the core values of Christ and believe we all have the right to be happy and to better society at the personal level. I am a proponent of gay marriage, which shouldn't be segregated into a separate category any more than interracial marriage should be, and improving our healthcare to make it more affordable to everyone. Furthermore, religious values have NO place in making policy in any country. We don't live in a freaking theocracy. Living in Texas all of my life has put me in a major hub of deep-rooted religion and it hurts my head listening to the lack of logic that comes from some of these so-called "Christians" that use it as a decoy for bigotry. I do not label myself as a Christian because I don't read Aramaic, Hebrew, or Greek.

There is truth in that.

I have this opinion because of my own family member who I watched exploit the system rather than pick himself up and attempt to find more jobs. He was receiving $800/month in SNAP support and didn't want to get a "low paying job" because he'd be working 30-40 hrs/weekly and only making a few hundred more dollars.

This was especially true while he had unemployment income too. Between the two, he made NO attempt to find a job, period. There are many more that take advantage of several federal and state programs and between the multiple programs, they can live off of them. Maybe not high on the hog but hey, they aint gotta work. This is an increasing trend at least in the more poverty stricken areas of the country like the southeast.

There will always be abuse of any program. They have an invaluable function in society, but they need to renovated severely.

 

[Whacked]

Amen brother

It's not in vogue to be a Christian these days. Doesn't mean you just cave and give in b/c you want to be accepted or popular. Lol

The world is already chalk full of life-long insecure high-school-minded popularity contest candidates looking for a vote. Lol. How pathetic

I agree the call is to try and love thy neighbor, to hate the sin not the sinner, judge not lest ye be judged, however Christians must never compromise beliefs for popularity but be salt and light nor cease to stand up for those who have no voice, the innocent aborted unprotected whom God loves, after all "these" people have no rights according to laws of men.

 

[BoneDaddy]

The world is already chalk full of life-long insecure high-school-minded popularity contest candidates looking for a vote. Lol. How pathetic

That sounds like something a high school kid would say at the cool kids lunch table. What does that even mean?

 

[Piston Honda]

Is that what rep points are for?

 

[Whacked]

Thanks for proving my point

Be well

That sounds like something a high school kid would say at the cool kids lunch table. What does that even mean?

 

[BoneDaddy]

Thanks for proving my point

Be well

I was simply asking for clarification amongst all of the irony and dichotomy in your statement. Not sure how that proved any point, if indeed you had an actual point.

 

[fueledpassion]

Amen brother

It's not in vogue to be a Christian these days. Doesn't mean you just cave and give in b/c you want to be accepted or popular. Lol

The world is already chalk full of life-long insecure high-school-minded popularity contest candidates looking for a vote. Lol. How pathetic

Adding to that, I think it is very important to hold the truth in one hand while having grace in the other. Too many "religious" people offer truth - which comes in the form of morality & judgement while not offering grace and love. Without the grace, there is no "good news" in the message. Rarely, do I find people that are capable of providing both. Until we get that right, we will continue to be pushed to the margins. In fact, offering a solid stance on something, while also offering grace and love, will provide a more sturdy ground for this society and encourage people to come out into the light and stay there. Whatever form of hypocrisy the unbelieving have, they would at least feel inclined to make it known to every one else and stop hiding if they knew that society would still love and value them after being honest.

I'm also convinced that people can be intolerant yet also loving. It's a shame this society thinks that to love means to "tolerate". That seems incorrect. I don't tolerate my dog chewing up my couch, since its purpose was not to be his chew toy. Yet I still love the dog even though he is taking my things and using them improperly for his satisfaction.