Here Comes the FDA Again!!!

[farmer]

They are trying to pass a law that would require a prescription for vitamins and supplements. I believe the deadline is Feb 1. Go here and help to stop this.

http://www.citizens.org

 

[MMA]

By then everything I do will be illegal.

 

[DR.D]

They're so damn greedy. It's all about money, and if you can't pay 'em off, your comp will. I hate their audits, they expect you to kiss their ass every time just to stay out of trouble. They over flex the authority they have big time in my experience.

 

[bitwise]

Where in those two proposed bills on supplements did you see a requirement for prescriptions? Mostly it is on adverse event reporting requirements.

 

[punta]

what a surprise...

 

[farmer]

bitwise: Maybe I should have worded it differently. These two bills are basically shooting holes in the "Dietary Supplement Act". It gives the FDA extensive review and hold powers on supplements that may come into question, no matter how benign it may be. Simple put, the FDA could immediately institute a hold on sales of any supplement as soon as they "deem necessary". At least now they have to have some sort of proof that a substance is dangerous. It also gives them unlimited authority to regulate anything in question, which means either ban it or make it prescription.

Maybe this seems insignificant to some, but they are spreading their authority wider and wider. It needs to be stopped in its tracks before they have a chance to take it any further. Sorry if my first post mislead anyone.

 

[-2z-]

bitwise: Maybe I should have worded it differently. These two bills are basically shooting holes in the "Dietary Supplement Act". It gives the FDA extensive review and hold powers on supplements that may come into question, no matter how benign it may be. Simple put, the FDA could immediately institute a hold on sales of any supplement as soon as they "deem necessary". At least now they have to have some sort of proof that a substance is dangerous. It also gives them unlimited authority to regulate anything in question, which means either ban it or make it prescription.

Maybe this seems insignificant to some, but they are spreading their authority wider and wider. It needs to be stopped in its tracks before they have a chance to take it any further. Sorry if my first post mislead anyone.

I had heard this was coming up. This is unbelievable.
Another example of The People's Repulbic of America.

Just sent my letter. I'll see about getting something to my State reps too (again).
Why do I feel like the government is consistantly taking things right out of my hand.

 

[skratch]

Just write to them and tell them now that we cant use eca,nyc,
Prohormones ect.That you will be using clen,t3,test,growth ect.
Id love to see there responce.Dont forget to mention nicotine for fat
loss to.
Let the realise that they are forcing all of us to use much worse substances.

 

[wastedwhiteboy2]

I remember getting letters back about banning ph. their responses had nothing to do with ph. either they did not know what I was writing about or they did not read it. this sounds like bills they responded to instead of ph. and they were all for these bills.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2005/1/emw199181.htm

here's a news release

I HAAAAATE THE FDA AND THE BIG GOVERNMENT SOCIALIST FUCKS WHO ARE DOING THIS TO US!

 

[Yjyankee]

not sure if this has ever been mentioned or not... Who's the Gov of California??? You think he'd have some sort of stroke on an issue like this. Unless Maria says, "no, people are hurting themselves w/ these "drugs"".... I don't know. It just doesn't make any sense. I mean, WalMart sells a bunch of these supplements that the Govt wants to ban!?!?!?

 

[kwyckemynd00]

Yeah, you would think Arnold would do something.

What a freaking tool he's turning out to be!

 

[Y2Jversion1]

I remember getting letters back about banning ph. their responses had nothing to do with ph. either they did not know what I was writing about or they did not read it. this sounds like bills they responded to instead of ph. and they were all for these bills.

The never read the goddamn letters.. they have friggin stacks of premade letters that have crap like 'We appreciate your concern, bla bla bla' and never address anything you've written about.. :frustrate

 

[darius]

This really fucking sucks. This may be the end of everything. Who knows.. they may get rid of creatine, liver support stuff, and just everything. This isn't the America that our forefathers created. If they could come back from the dead, they would be so fucking pissed how we fucked up what they created.

Its a fucking joke to say that America is the land of the free. Thats bullshit.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

This really fucking sucks. This may be the end of everything. Who knows.. they may get rid of creatine, liver support stuff, and just everything. This isn't the America that our forefathers created. If they could come back from the dead, they would be so fucking pissed how we fucked up what they created.

Agreed. This isn't going to end.....

 

[CDB]

Why do I feel like the government is consistantly taking things right out of my hand.

Because it is.

 

[darius]

Can you imagine becoming a felon because you got busted with some vitamin c on you?

 

[RSX-S]

Don't you dare buy that extra large bottle of Orange juice!!!! That stuff's dangerous!! Its got vitamin C in it!!

:frustrate :frustrate :frustrate :frustrate

 

[Nullifidian]

On a positive note, the Libertarian Party is seeing a stronger and stronger base every year. This year during the election, there were Libertarian candidates for literally every position on the voting ballot in my district. More and more often I talk to friends and relatives and hear people discarding former ties to Repulican or Democrat in support of the Libertarians instead. People from both parties! If you feel strongly about this issue, it really is your only option to support the Libertarians; they are the ONLY party who agree with you.

If enough people make a stand, we might be able to get a few Libertarian Representatives elected. It isn't a far fetched idea; IIRC there recently was one elected from Vermont. All new parties start out small. Now is the time they need your support the most.

 

[Y2Jversion1]

Don't you dare buy that extra large bottle of Orange juice!!!! That stuff's dangerous!! Its got vitamin C in it!!

:frustrate :frustrate :frustrate :frustrate

No sources please!

:rofl:

 

[darius]

Yeah, eventually they will ban food too. We will have to purchase these government rations that come in 3 fun flavors. I can see it now.

 

[natedogg]

I'm really not worried about it. I don't see it happening. How stupid can they be...:think:

 

[darius]

I'm really not worried about it. I don't see it happening. How stupid can they be...:think:

Not worried about it? Greedy pharmaceutical companies play a huge impact on our government and decision-making, more so than its own citizens. It can happen pretty easily.

 

[natedogg]

Not worried about it? Greedy pharmaceutical companies play a huge impact on our government and decision-making, more so than its own citizens. It can happen pretty easily.

C'mon now. Prescriptions for Vitamins. Give me a frickin' break.

 

[darius]

C'mon now. Prescriptions for Vitamins. Give me a frickin' break.

They believe people use things that arn't needed for them and it causes health problems. I don't think they will ban vitamin's, thats just an exaggeration, but you can say goodbye to Milk Thistle, Saw Palmetto, NAC, Creatine, Alcar, Red Yeast Rice, and many others that fit those type of supplements. I'm sure alot of the Asian herbs will be banned if this goes through as well. They do not want people treating themselves when it comes to the liver or their own cholesterol using Red Yeast Rice. They want you to go to the doc and pay the money for the prescription. You can say goodbye to GNC, Vitamin Shoppe, and any other vitamin retailer if this goes through.

It's like piracy. At first everything was great for them. We were buying cd's and all was well. They were not too concerned about people recording off the radio and stuff like that. Then came the internet and cd-r's and then dvd-r's. They lost a ton of money from their music industry. So the RIAA stood up and made sure that lawmakers made it illegal and tried to charge lots of people and many became criminals. It's always about money. The doctors/pharmaceuticals are losing alot of money because, now with the internet/instant lab result places, most people can treat themselves in most "non-serious" health ailments. With the internet/instant labs/supplements, you could even say that you can make better decisions than doctors. An example, my mom has bad arthritis, and the doctors put her on a ton of prescription liver-hurting ****. She had to get her liver tests and all and they put her on some hardcore drugs. I looked up some arthritis remedies on the internet and told my mom to take 4-5 tablespoons of Flaxseed oil every night. In less than 2 weeks, she felt so much better, way better than what the doc had prescribed for her. She recently told her doc that she was taking Flaxseed oil and the doc went crazy. He said you cannot trust those supplements and advised her to stop taking it. Is she going to stop taking it? Hell no, it helped better than anything he ever prescribed. Unfortunately, most docs learn what they learn in medical school and thats it. Things change, and I feel the majority of doctors are generally very close minded against anything that they didn't learn from their old text books 20+ years ago.

Their close-mindedness and the pharmaceuticals losing their money will make this bill happen in an instant.

I'm not saying that we need to do away with doctors and all that. They are taking away our freedom of us being able to help ourselves. Right now they are having a hard time competing with the supplement market. They don't want 70% of the market or whatever it is, they want 100% of it. People should still go to the doc for disease and other major health ailments, and we all would if we got cancer or something, but thats not enough, they want the entire market.

 

[Nullifidian]

Believe it guys. This could happen VERY easily. In many European nations vitamins require a prescription if you want to purchase them in doses higher than a certain amount. The FDA is moving more and more towards adopting the policies of the WHO. Don't let it happen!!

Protect your rights!! Support the Libertarians unless you actually want the governmetn taking your rights from you!

 

[g4ud1n]

http://www.healthactioncenter.com/action/index.asp?step=2&item=23589&ms=c4

This has some premade letter thing. It probably won't do any good, since elected officials don't do **** for people of this country. They can get thousands of letters that say the same ****, and it won't matter cause they won't be read anyway.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

True...we should all start calling. They just crumple up letters and send you a generic reply.

 

[CDB]

They actually do read the letters, but only the simple Yes or No ones. Other factors aside, they vote along the lines of what most of their consituants want, or the pile with the most letters.

 

[UHCougar05]

Urge to kill bureaucrats rising...rising...rising...:twisted:

God, were taking away our PH/PS's not enough for these assholes. GOD! However, like was said earlier, it would be somewhat hard to get some of these things passed. I would be pissed if they took away my CEE, AAKG, Taurine, etc. God knows I may hurt myself even more by taking that extra vitamin C when I have a cold rather than just letting it run its course.

When will these people understand that taking these things away solves absolutely nothing, anything that a person wants to do, they will do. The FDA is doing nothing except trying to publicly display the size of its "collective" penis. They want to show that they have the power to say what is the best for our health regardless of whether or not it's right.

All I know is that if I have to get a script for Flax, Vit C, NAC, Milk Thistle, Creatine, etc. I will go on a killing spree so help me... :smite: :shoot: :saw:

 

[DR.D]

Yeah, you would think Arnold would do something.

What a freaking tool he's turning out to be!

Yeah right! Kind of like Bill Clinton should have legalized pot, he knew it, but there was no instant money in it, so there's no insentive. It sux and it will get worse if people don't stand up for there rights. Just like they took prayer and the 10 commandments out of school and now education sux. All the founding fathers were Christian, don't belive the liberal bullshit.

 

[farmer]

One of the worst parts of this is the fact that the FDA (from what I understand) is trying to institute this on their own. I guess it wouldn't technically be called a law unless congress passes it, but the FDA is looking to give themselves the power over this kind of thing. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they didn't ask congress to give them full authority over everything we consume. If that happens then medicine, supplements, and even food is techincally socialized under a branch of the system with no requirement for votes, representation, or outside influence. In other words, they will be able to do what they want, when they want without answering to anyone. I would be willing to bet that this is in their minds and already been discussed somewhere.

And naturally, they are going to favor whoever is putting money in their pockets. If the drug companies who contribute to the "under the table fund" stand to make alot of money selling vitamins and creatine, then you can bet thats who will be selling them.

 

[CDB]

I guess it wouldn't technically be called a law unless congress passes it, but the FDA is looking to give themselves the power over this kind of thing.

The courts have already decided that regulations passed by such bodies are in effect laws. This is something I was getting at in another conversation a while ago, that most 'laws' these days are made by unelected beauacrats so accountability is quite hard to come by.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

Yeah right! Kind of like Bill Clinton should have legalized pot, he knew it, but there was no instant money in it, so there's no insentive. It sux and it will get worse if people don't stand up for there rights. Just like they took prayer and the 10 commandments out of school and now education sux. All the founding fathers were Christian, don't belive the liberal bullshit.

I'm about as right wing libertarian as they get (save immigration and a few economic policies that are controversial within the party itself). But, I would expect the man whose fame came from fitness to at least stick up for vitamins. Plus, comparing Arnold to Clinton is a little harsh don't you think? LOL.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

The courts have already decided that regulations passed by such bodies are in effect laws. This is something I was getting at in another conversation a while ago, that most 'laws' these days are made by unelected beauacrats so accountability is quite hard to come by.

That's something I tried to point out earlier as well (in one of these two threads). They'r their own evil entity. Much like the FCC. They have WAY too much power. I mean, where are the checks and balances with these entities?

 

[RSX-S]

So does anyone wanna go in on a beach house in Mexico?

Im thinking about one in between the ocean and the local pharmacy. Now, if only I can find a decent job down there. :thumbsup:

 

[BodyWizard]

Not worried about it? Greedy pharmaceutical companies play a huge impact on our government and decision-making, more so than its own citizens. It can happen pretty easily.

it's not big pharm - it's big everything - oil, tobacco, auto, agri, you name it.

Most people didn't notice that while we were turning into consumers, BigCorps, Inc. turned into citizens.... Remember Eisenhower & the 'military-industrial complex' thing? Welcome to the land of us not listening.

Sorry - do these pants make my ass look cynical? :frustrate :rasp: :run:

 

[g4ud1n]

All the founding fathers were Christian, don't belive the liberal bullshit.

I think most of them were Deists(sp?)

 

[CDB]

I think most of them were Deists(sp?)

True, but that's just a different way of looking at the same religion. They were heavily Christian in their moral views, beliefs on the nature of God, etc.

 

[DR.D]

They openly stated that there could be no "free" society like the US, unless it's citizens recognized moral absolutes and governed their own personal behavior by them. That means, w/out honesty, society as it was intended and established to be fails. That's why America isn't what it was or should be, we deny Christ now, and the moral standards found in the Bible. Even the Supreme Court used to confess this, now it's just all fucked up with liberal shiiiiiaat! Don't believe the hype, God is alive and real. I not pushing my version of how I think it should be, I'm trying to tell you the truth because it took me 26 years to find it. I've caught God watching me before, now I believe!

 

[g4ud1n]

I dont really want to turn this into a religious debate, but just because the majority of the country belongs to one giant cult, doesnt mean everyone does. Religion is the cause for 90% of the problems in the world, and it is all of them, not just one. The only religious people not causing problems are the Buddhists. God will never be PROVEN. And even with all of the advances in science God will never be disproven either. Ignorance will always be around. On another note, if Jesus was around do you think he would be liberal or a conservative? I'm sure he would not approve of people selling him the way he is now. He was all about turning the other cheek.

 

[bioman]

I agree NULL, the libertarians are getting more attractive. If they' alter one or two stances..like simmer down about having open borders then a lot more people will jump on board. The Reps and their promise of smaller government has now been exposed as a lie. And everyone thought it was the socialist types within the Dem party that would ruin freedoms...they're both as bad!

 

[kwyckemynd00]

I agree NULL, the libertarians are getting more attractive. If they' alter one or two stances..like simmer down about having open borders then a lot more people will jump on board. The Reps and their promise of smaller government has now been exposed as a lie. And everyone thought it was the socialist types within the Dem party that would ruin freedoms...they're both as bad!

ditto.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

I dont really want to turn this into a religious debate, but just because the majority of the country belongs to one giant cult, doesnt mean everyone does. Religion is the cause for 90% of the problems in the world, and it is all of them, not just one......

This I disagree with 100%. Religion keeps most people moral. Yes, there are fanatics, but this is a people problem. Notice buddhist monks have a tendancy to burn themselves up in the middle of large crowds? That's not normal behaviour and is a bit fanatical. However, it's not a religious problem, it's a people problem. Religion doesn't make anybody do anything, people are responsible for their own decisions. To blame problems on religion is shallow minded in my opinion. Ever notice how people of the same religion but of differnet cultures can be on opposite sides of fanaticism? I.E. In america, you often see liberal jewish fanatics and in israel you often see orthodox jewish fanatics. It's about people and culture. Weak people just tend to grab onto religion and use it as a justification. They would have found something else to justify their actions had they not religion. Athiests and secularists are just as fanatical as the religious. Ever hear of Joseph Stalin ?

 

[g4ud1n]

Every religion and every culture is going to have its fanatics. But religion keeping people moral? The Bible Belt has the highest concentration of strip clubs in the country. Most Christians would not consider that to be moral. I'm not going to get into this any more it just becomes retarded.

 

[Nullifidian]

Religion was created to trick primitive people into shifting power from the physically strongest to the mentally capable. That is all.

It is an antiquated concept that has far outlived its usefulness. Thousands of years ago, it served a purpose, but now it is obsolete. One of religion's key features is that it relies on the ignorance of its practitioners to listen to the priesthood and obey without question. Thus any sort of education of the plebes is discouraged since with education would come a chance that the plebes would discover the hipocracies inherent in the religion and thus rebel after realizing it is simply a form of oppression that uses psychological tricks rather than physical force.



Religious laws were created merely because obeying those laws in ancient times would lead to a greater survival rate. Examples:

1) Pigs and other cloven hoof animals have a history of carrying a larger number of diseases, thus eating their meat is more likely to cause illness. By outlawing the meat, many are saved from food poisoning (Middle East).

2) Dairy from cows is a major source of nurishment in many cultures. In times of famine however shortsided thinking would cause people to kill the cows for temporary increase in food, however such an action would be devastating in famine because the longterm food supply would be thus greatly shrunken. So, cows are designated "holy" and it is forbidden to kill them. People fear God's wrath even in times of famine and so they don't kill the cows, and so they preserve their food supply (India)

3) In ancient times, procreation was greatly encouraged due to UNDERpopulation. The greater the population of a nation the greater its power. Hence procreation was always encouraged as much as possible. Homosexuality however results in pairing that does not produce offspring. Thus in order to discourage it to promote greater increases in population, homosexuality was labelled a terrible sin. The fear of God's wrath thus caused homosexuals to hide their nature and in many many cases marry and have children (multiple cultures).

 

[CDB]

Pretty damn amazing how those who claim to be so enlightened turn out to be so ignorant. Did it every occur to you Null, that some people just believe certain things because it gives them comfort, a guide in life, or whatever the hell else they need to get by? As long as they don't screw with other people and try and force them to do this or that, what difference does it make? I have no religious beliefs myself, I couldn't give a **** less about God or gods or spirits or anything else. However derriding those that do have such beliefs would do nothing more than show the worst of myself. Those who are truly smart and enlightened know damn well that they don't know everything, and don't procede to deal out judgement and facts without some degree of humility and restraint.

If I ever had a god it'd be Crom, 'cause I like the fact that he doesn't give a ****.

 

[Nullifidian]

I'm sorry I should have clarified. ORGANIZED religion was created for that purpose. By organized I'm referring to religions with a hierarchical structure of priests. Religions where there is a priesthood of some sort; i.e. religious leaders, and the masses must obey the decrees of the religious leaders.

Religion itself, the belief in the otherwordly, is mostly a way to explain away concepts in life we cannot understand in order to give comfort. The unknown is very uncomfortable to most people, so giving an explaination, no matter how ridiculous, relieves much of that tension.

 

[houseman]

Unfortunately, what I have found with those who are religious is that force fed their beliefs on me trying to get me to believe, think and act in the same way they do.

While I agree that we shouldn't judge, I think you'll find those who do not subscribe to any type of religion to be because of the acts and judgements of the religious that have been made on us.

How'd we get on religion anyway?

 

[Nullifidian]

Dr. D brought it up.