Terror in our time. Video.

[CEDeoudes59]

Watch it:
http://4.78.57.43/ogrish-dot-com-eugene-armstrong-beheading-video.wmv

 

[Jstrong20]

I still don't know why this shocks everybody. Their has been crazy people since day one. Charles Manson, Canibals, Hitler, and those types have been around forever and always will.

 

[CEDeoudes59]

Dont shock me so to speak, people should know what is terrorism is though

 

[Clintdogg]

normally i can watch those things and get past it or whatever. But that was the clearest viewing and sounding video ive seen yet, and its absolutly disgusting. Anyone who is the slightest bit squeemish will NOT want to watch this. The sounds are terrible.

 

[bulkmuscle]

yeah thats sick ****, you can hear him wheezing from his neck, fucking narsty.

 

[good_guye28]

i watched this last night and, i dont know why it bothers me so much. usually gross stuff doesnt bother me but that was bad, i dont know if its because its an american or what it is.............

 

[GTOman]

That's really disturbing. I don't know how anyone could do that to another human being. Those are some really sick bastards.

 

[darius]

Yeah thats sick. I watched it w/o sound the first time, which was still really bad, and with sound its way way more worse.

 

[NPursuit]

A warning on the header of the video would be good. That was disturbing.

 

[Neuromancer]

I agree, disturbing things usually don't bother me too bad...but that is unreal! That poor son of a bitch! I don't understand how someone could do that.

 

[Iron Warrior]

He didn't fuckin deserve that!!!!

 

[CDB]

He didn't fuckin deserve that!!!!

No, he didn't. He had a 13 year old daugher who may one day see this tape, a wife, a family. Personally I don't know how anyone can watch that and not want to nuke that whole area of the world.

 

[NPursuit]

No, he didn't. He had a 13 year old daugher who may one day see this tape, a wife, a family. Personally I don't know how anyone can watch that and not want to nuke that whole area of the world.

It could all be over by noon. Nuke the bastards and they get to go see Allah. It's a win win situation for all.

 

[MaDmaN]

No, he didn't. He had a 13 year old daugher who may one day see this tape, a wife, a family. Personally I don't know how anyone can watch that and not want to nuke that whole area of the world.

I feel exactly the same way..I could not watch that video but I did see the Nick Berg one and to ths day the images haunt me..I feel so enraged and angry,and actually beleive genecide of all arabs is justified,but I know in my heart that is wrong,but I guess that is what terrorism is supposed to do..

 

[CDB]

I feel exactly the same way..I could not watch that video but I did see the Nick Berg one and to ths day the images haunt me..I feel so enraged and angry,and actually beleive genecide of all arabs is justified,but I know in my heart that is wrong,but I guess that is what terrorism is supposed to do..

Definitely stay away from this one if the Berg one haunts you. This will stay with you for a long, long time. I disagree on the terrorism though. I think they want to use terror to scare us out of the region, but there's a cultural difference between us and them. They seem to bow to power and authority, while American's get pissed off by power and authority. Think about it, we don't want our government telling us what to do even in the rare case where it's right. We had a revolution and one the kick offs was that the government was taxing our breakfast drink.

I was against the war at the beginning, still would have preferred we didn't go in, but honestly can't come up with a coherent alternative. Now I just want to see the area reized and salted, or nuked and just train a cadre of special forces to drill for oil in a fallout zone. Anything to take these subhuman fuckers out at this point is fine by me.

 

[NPursuit]

I feel so enraged and angry,and actually beleive genecide of all arabs is justified,but I know in my heart that is wrong,but I guess that is what terrorism is supposed to do..

It's sad but true. At this point it's us or them. I haven't seen 1 American Muslim stand up and talk or fight against the terrorists. If Islam is a peaceful religion they sure as hell aren't doing anything to prove that, quite the opposite actually. It's time to take the gloves off.

 

[MaDmaN]

It's sad but true. At this point it's us or them. I haven't seen 1 American Muslim stand up and talk or fight against the terrorists. If Islam is a peaceful religion they sure as hell aren't doing anything to prove that, quite the opposite actually. It's time to take the gloves off.

Agreed..Us or them,no other way IMO.

 

[Neuromancer]

Definitely stay away from this one if the Berg one haunts you. This will stay with you for a long, long time. I disagree on the terrorism though. I think they want to use terror to scare us out of the region, but there's a cultural difference between us and them. They seem to bow to power and authority, while American's get pissed off by power and authority. Think about it, we don't want our government telling us what to do even in the rare case where it's right. We had a revolution and one the kick offs was that the government was taxing our breakfast drink.

I was against the war at the beginning, still would have preferred we didn't go in, but honestly can't come up with a coherent alternative. Now I just want to see the area reized and salted, or nuked and just train a cadre of special forces to drill for oil in a fallout zone. Anything to take these subhuman fuckers out at this point is fine by me.

What I don't understand is, why don't these fuckers see that these beheadings are not going to make us pull out, we just don't work that way, and as you said it will actually trigger the opposite response.

These terroists keep hiding in significant religious places because they know we can't/won't come after them in them! The whole thing just seems soo damn political, right from the beginning (massive amount of media coverage, etc).

Anyways, thats my rant....I say carpet bomb the place!

 

[Brodus]

I watched neither video. I just don't want the horrific nature of those acts to do further "damage" by sticking in my head forever, although that is in part a reflection of my own sensitivity.

What we're dealing with is a last gasp of tribal society, fearful of coming to terms with modernity. Sure, it could be cast as religious or economic or whatever, but it's really a culture clash. These feudal/tribal societies are resisting modernity tooth and nail; they prefer to kill their own sisters if they're suspected of pre-marital sex. Everywhere else this is considered barbaric, but somehow the fallout of our relativistic cultural consciousness has had an effect...look at us. We're afraid to say, "**** that, public stonings, beheadings, tribal fucks with 28 wives, none of this belongs in modern society."

However unfair people like to paint the forward march of civilization, the fact is that WalMart outcompeting a local deli or McDonalds marketing at religous sites (even though all of this is annoying and bothersome) is NOTHING like cutting someone's head off. Extreme leftists try to make all sorts of arguments that somehow these killings are justification for the "brutal" policies of America...well, I fail to see how this is true. Here in America we give you enough rope to tie a ladder or a noose, the rest is up to you. In most states, we don't even execute our most horrendous criminals.

Three other points.

1. Islam is the last of the Judaic faiths that hasn't undergone a top to bottom reformation. They have not squared religious dogma with modern scientific truths, nor the experience of life we have gained over the past 1000 years. This is a crucial element in the debate.

2. I also find it odd that there has not been a strong condemnation of these activities by the Muslim population. On the flipside, if someone like Jerry Falwell just makes an anti-gay comment, he's appologizing for weeks. Imagine if he actually punched a gay person for hitting on him. Now imagine he killed 2,000 gay people and Chrisitians didn't say anything to condemn him.

3. I would argue that the very nature of their world is bloodshed, and it forms the basis for their positions of leadership, both in terms of state, religion, AND family. When the only currency that holds value is blood, there is only one answer. I don't see how anyone can doubt this after watching this debacle unfold. Bush may have moved into action early, might have gone after the wrong targets, may possibly have been too confident, but what he really did was expose a situation that has been percolating, ready to explode, for decades. Look at the savegery these people commit against THEMSELVES! They blow up their own oilfields. They destroy/loot/rob/murder their own people when a bigger bully isn't there threatening to do it to them.

Lastly, at this juncture I'm feeling that "nuke them into nothingness" urge daily...part of me says "Why do we spend money on such weapons?--When is there a better time to use them?--How many more innocent people have to be beheaded on video before we stop playing nice guy and start taking out the big guns?"

 

[Brodus]

There is only one word that comes to mind...<appologize in advance, mods>

****!

 

[Jeff]

I haven't even attempted to watch the last one, the nepalese worker was the last video I saw and I cannot stomach anymore. Several of my coworkers have children that go to school with the last guys daughter. I lost my father to an anurysm when I was 14 and sometime I still have trouble dealing with it almost 2 decades later, I cannot fathom what this poor child is going to have to deal with for the rest of her life. I am not an religeous person, haven't been to church since my father was buried, but I pray for her.

On a lighter note, do you guys check out any of these iraqi blogs? They are written by iraqi citizen who still live there. Usually has some better news/viewpoints about the situation over there.

http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/
http://messopotamian.blogspot.com/
http://www.iraq-iraqis.blogspot.com/
http://www.ladybird.oxfordhost.co.uk/b2evolution/blogs/
http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/

 

[CDB]

There is only one word that comes to mind...<appologize in advance, mods>

****!

I'm more or less with you on this. I think we'd have been better off staying out of the place completely from the beginning, but however many of our actions turned out wrong, it doesn't justify these kinds of actions on their part. We should at least start taking out these mosques without hesitation. If we get a boatload of terrorists into one city, I'd support a nuke strike on it at this point. End it and let them feel wrath on a biblical level. It's the only thing that's going to make a difference at this point.

 

[Brodus]

Very good links, Jeff. I just checked this one out and read the first article:

http://www.iraq-iraqis.blogspot.com/

Excellent and highly recommended.

 

[Brodus]

Whatever happened to tactical nukes? Remember those? They are small round munitions, minimal fallout, they basically will turn a city block to dust, and that's it.

When a "church" is funding horrific activities, it no longer becomes a place of worship, and thus loses its protection, IMO. Again, we had no problem invading the Koresh compound in Waco, and for much less cause. Why can't we raze a couple Mosques that are acting as shields for these activites? The fat, opiate-addicted power-hungry bastards who run these little clans need to sizzle in the frying pan.

 

[NPursuit]

I watched neither video. I just don't want the horrific nature of those acts to do further "damage" by sticking in my head forever, although that is in part a reflection of my own sensitivity.

What we're dealing with is a last gasp of tribal society, fearful of coming to terms with modernity. Sure, it could be cast as religious or economic or whatever, but it's really a culture clash. These feudal/tribal societies are resisting modernity tooth and nail; they prefer to kill their own sisters if they're suspected of pre-marital sex. Everywhere else this is considered barbaric, but somehow the fallout of our relativistic cultural consciousness has had an effect...look at us. We're afraid to say, "**** that, public stonings, beheadings, tribal fucks with 28 wives, none of this belongs in modern society."

However unfair people like to paint the forward march of civilization, the fact is that WalMart outcompeting a local deli or McDonalds marketing at religous sites (even though all of this is annoying and bothersome) is NOTHING like cutting someone's head off. Extreme leftists try to make all sorts of arguments that somehow these killings are justification for the "brutal" policies of America...well, I fail to see how this is true. Here in America we give you enough rope to tie a ladder or a noose, the rest is up to you. In most states, we don't even execute our most horrendous criminals.

Three other points.

1. Islam is the last of the Judaic faiths that hasn't undergone a top to bottom reformation. They have not squared religious dogma with modern scientific truths, nor the experience of life we have gained over the past 1000 years. This is a crucial element in the debate.

2. I also find it odd that there has not been a strong condemnation of these activities by the Muslim population. On the flipside, if someone like Jerry Falwell just makes an anti-gay comment, he's appologizing for weeks. Imagine if he actually punched a gay person for hitting on him. Now imagine he killed 2,000 gay people and Chrisitians didn't say anything to condemn him.

3. I would argue that the very nature of their world is bloodshed, and it forms the basis for their positions of leadership, both in terms of state, religion, AND family. When the only currency that holds value is blood, there is only one answer. I don't see how anyone can doubt this after watching this debacle unfold. Bush may have moved into action early, might have gone after the wrong targets, may possibly have been too confident, but what he really did was expose a situation that has been percolating, ready to explode, for decades. Look at the savegery these people commit against THEMSELVES! They blow up their own oilfields. They destroy/loot/rob/murder their own people when a bigger bully isn't there threatening to do it to them.

Lastly, at this juncture I'm feeling that "nuke them into nothingness" urge daily...part of me says "Why do we spend money on such weapons?--When is there a better time to use them?--How many more innocent people have to be beheaded on video before we stop playing nice guy and start taking out the big guns?"

Well put!

I also don't understand why we won't attack them in their mosques. Their religion teaches them that anyone not Muslim is scum. Why should we give them the respect they don't give us. This is not the type of war we are used to. We should do what it takes to win. They obviously are.

 

[CEDeoudes59]

I also don't understand why we won't attack them in their mosques.

The Bush Administration would love to believe me.
But it's an election year, and Bush has been neutralized by the liberals and that goof John Kerry. Instead we fight a 'sensitive' 'humane' 'politically correct' liberal war. The Ultra Liberals have more respect for foreign lives than our own. The terrorists arent being sensitive. End result? more Americans die

 

[Brodus]

Yeah, I think "sensitive military engagement" is oxymoronic.

Either you commit fully, or you don't commit. Half-ass efforts turn into long-term, bloody messes.

 

[NPursuit]

I'm hoping if Bush gets his 2nd term, that the gloves will come off, and he will start hitting everyone and everything hard.

 

[Jeff]

I'm hoping if Bush gets his 2nd term, that the gloves will come off, and he will start hitting everyone and everything hard.

It sure would make taking care of the mad-mullah in Iran alot easier with bases on both sides in iraq and afganistan. I really do think bush is in a damned if you do damed if you don't situation. Right now they can complain that there is not enough military on the ground, but if we had large quantities of military might over there and were razing cities like fallujah and najef they would say he is doing nothing but killing civilians.

 

[CEDeoudes59]

I'm hoping if Bush gets his 2nd term, that the gloves will come off, and he will start hitting everyone and everything hard.

I'm with you
November 3rd the US Military should do what we are capable of

 

[Brodus]

He certainly won't have anything politically stopping him if he does get re-elected. Maybe this was the plan all along : )

 

[CEDeoudes59]

If we have to 'divide' our country further in the name of Self Defense
Divide it further.

 

[jarhead]

I served in the Marine Corp for 5 years and these sick fucks are the reason I joined. One thing about the whole should/we shouldn't we war thing without opening a whole political discussion is this-beheadings pale in comparison to some of the things Saddam was doing to his own people and to the different ethnic groups in his country. For me that's enogh of a reason to get that bastard out. I can't watch any of these videos without being drawn to tears, but i force myself to watch them so that I don't ever forget why we're there and what we have to do. These people are effin cowards. Also- not all muslims believe that anyone who's not muslim is scum. It's all in the way the different factions interperet their scripture. And that's why,as much as I sometimes want to, I don't think we should nuke the entire region. The loss of innocent life(women,children,etc.)it would cause would make us no better than the scum that beheaded those poor people. As far as the mosques- screw em! That would be the first **** I blow up to let them know i was serious. They threaten us with a holy war? big effin deal. According to them they've been waging one on us for years. What are they gonna do, throw MORE rocks at our tanks? Their only weapons are terrorism and beheading innocent unarmed people. We need to step this **** up and do what we gotta do to finish this. Most of the world hates us anyway. Just my 2 cents.

 

[jweave23]

I'm thinking we have created some parts of this cluster-**** of violence by our own actions these past few years. But hey, this is just that soft liberal talking. :rasp:

 

[coofoostu]

Its funny how people talk about the US prisoner abuse like its the worst thing in the world. A girl pointing and laughing at a guys dick, man thats horrible. I would much rather be in the cremantorium in Nazi Germany or across the river slowly getting my head cut off with a 4" blade.

 

[CEDeoudes59]

just the far left and the media outcry about Abu-Graib to take down Bush.
We know the truth, we are rational.
I don't really care, put dog leashes and panties on their head.
and heres a twist --- kill them afterward if they don't give information

 

[NPursuit]

It was made out much worse because of the liberal media. It was ammunition for them to show how bad Bush and party is screwing up over there. Abu-Graib made the 1st page of the LA times 50 times.

 

[jarhead]

It was made out much worse because of the liberal media. It was ammunition for them to show how bad Bush and party is screwing up over there. Abu-Graib made the 1st page of the LA times 50 times.

Somebody saw bill orielly on tim russerts show!

 

[CEDeoudes59]

O'reilly addresses that issue constantly on the Factor, radio factor, its a very good point

And Oreilly tore down that neo-communist fake-me-out journalist liar Paul Kurgman, the guy had NOTHING TO SAY

 

[jarhead]

O'reilly addresses that issue constantly on the Factor, radio factor, its a very good point

And Oreilly tore down that neo-communist fake-me-out journalist liar Paul Kurgman, the guy had NOTHING TO SAY

Yeah that's the show i was talking about. I wanted bill to reach over and smack the **** out of kurgman. he's such a weasel.

 

[MarcusG]

Its funny how people talk about the US prisoner abuse like its the worst thing in the world. A girl pointing and laughing at a guys dick, man thats horrible. I would much rather be in the cremantorium in Nazi Germany or across the river slowly getting my head cut off with a 4" blade.

It would be funny if that was the worst abuse the US military had meted out to its prisoners.

Whats not funny is that sexual hummiliation is not seen as torture and the reluctance to admit that the actions were nothing more than a naked party twister. Deaths, coverups, lack of accountability throughout the 'chain of command', the number civillian contractors can apparently be ignored completely.

Edit: I read 'The interrogators:Inside the Secret War Against al Qaeda' recently which was about US interrogators in the Afghan war. The pains they took not to cross the line (into torture), the small twinges of guilt when they resorted to 'monstering' (not beating, an 'interview' technique) is laughable in light of 'Abu Ghraib'.

 

[CEDeoudes59]

Many Liberals are ashamed of America
Ashamed of our past and present.

 

[MarcusG]

Video's of civilians being beheaded is montrous but is one-sided. Iraqi's are being killed and kidnapped in greater numbers than foreign contractors. No one seems to know who are behind some of the kidnappings of Iraqi's - are government agents involved?

Ordinary iraqis feel every bit of their grinding poverty when their electricity bills in Baghdad jumped 1,000% post-war - changed by privatization and deregulation in favour of certain foreign corporations. They are disillusioned with the transparency and integrity of the reconstruction process when the CPA mishandled and wasted 20billion of Iraqi oil revenue (Bremmer just signs it) without proper accounting on cherry picked contractors, instead of the utilising more of the 87bil reconstruction package (which would be subjected to greater scrutiny?).

 

[MarcusG]

Many Liberals are ashamed of America
Ashamed of our past and present.

Many moral upstanding people are ashamed when torturers can be given a saintly halo.

 

[Brodus]

Can someone come up with a nice, warm, fuzzy way of extracting information from people who kill their own daughters and rammed planes into buildings of thousands of innocent people?

What if you were interrogating a gang member of a gang that killed your son? Would you take time out to make sure he was comfortable and receiving 100X better care than your own flesh and blood did?

 

[CEDeoudes59]

Can someone come up with a nice, warm, fuzzy way of extracting information from people who kill their own daughters and rammed planes into buildings of thousands of innocent people?

I know a way - but im not telling. I'd rather have them abused - no wait - TORTURED

 

[Brodus]

So you think our government is secretly killing innocent Iraqis on a regular basis, and this doesn't make the news? What purpose would this serve? Are you in the intelligence community? How would you even know if they were innocent, or do you just decide that anyone the US kills is innocent, and any polygamist, pedophilic, heroin trader who kills 1000 Americans has done no wrong and should be awarded a gold star for fighting th evil intrusion of WalMart.

And can you please get over your grade-school bullshit liberal/conservative dichotomy? We're talking about issues of justice and morality. Can you possibly conceive of yourself as larger than the box you put yourself in long enough to think outside of it? It has nothing to do with some arbitrary definition that serves no purpose.

And who got a saintly halo?

For a mass murderer, I think Saddam Huessein is getting the celebrity treatment.

Haliburton (sp?) is wrong for charging 1000% higher energy rates, if this is true, and I don't know that it is. However, you're just making appeals to emotion. We have no way of knowing if any corporation could have done it any cheaper or faster. I see you roll your eyes, but it's true. Go try to hire someone to work on pipelines in a warzone, and see what their hourly rate is...oh, and tell them they have a good chance of being beheaded on television, too.

 

[CEDeoudes59]

Saddam is depressed OH NO
'Bush is the real criminal'

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/040920/325/f2xvc.html

 

[Brodus]

I just think people are way too soft. You need to go live somewhere dangerous for a while, and then come face-to-face with the brutality of survival, and then twisting someone's ankle who shot your brother isn't such a big deal.

Seriously...I live in the second highest murder district in Chicago--Humboldt Park. My car has been broken into, and **** goes down on a regular basis. There is no way you "negotiate" with someone who's breaking into your house-->you kill them, or you get brutalized. That's life. I live right across the street from a police station and it mesans nothing for safety. All my college "abstractions" mean absolutely nothing when confronted with these realities. And I'm sure a war zone is 100X more intense.

Further, Iraqis have been f-in themselves. Until we restored order, they were robbing, pillaging, raping, and comitting massive crime at will.

 

[Brodus]

The thing is, I'm not even a Bush fan, and I'm an independent, but I'm honest about the realities of war. We spent more money on limiting civilian casualties in this engagement than has ever been spent.