Watching Kerry speak right now...

[jrkarp]

Seriously, is this the best that the Democrats can do? It's kind of pathetic. I can't wait to see him lose.

/karp

 

[jboogie]

We could argue the same about your dirty republicans.


At least Kerry doesn't constantly fall off bicyles, choke on pretzels, or invade random countries for no reason.

 

[Meerschaum]

Seriously, is this the best that the Democrats can do? It's kind of pathetic. I can't wait to see him lose.

/karp

I've gotta agree this ticket has probs, I'm a moderate (Libertarian) and I'm young, white, male... so that makes my demographic not that important for democrats, but nonetheless I have an opinon on this ticket (and what beter place to voice it but on AM?)

1: Kerry has zero charisma, in a debate against Bush he might technically win, but I think he'll lose in most ppls eyes just because he has zero charisma

2: Democrats seem to be rallying 'classic' demographics IE: black, gay, etc and neglecting other newer demographics IE:hispanic, asian

3:bringing out speakers like Al Sharpton is IMO (and many pundits) a bad idea in this campaign, since this campaign is all about the small number of moderates, most of whom will not be ardent supporters of hardline leftwing policy, and the voices thereof (Al Sharpton)

4: edwards may look pretty but how can he compare to Dick Cheney when it comes to public perception of foreign policy?


The common wisdom would say Kerry is a shoe in, given Bushes many erroneous missteps and the huge smear campaign (okay, maybe truth campaign?) farenheit 9/11 comes to mind, but because of Kerry's lack of charisma, combined with the fact he's a flip-flop and extremely leftwing (and showing it) ? its a toss up IMO.

I think in the grander scheme of things, the huge boost the democrats got (baby boomers) is beginning to crack under the weight of the growing number of ppl born after the baby boomers who arent default leftwingers and maybe see leftwing policy in a different light having grown up under it?

 

[Sheesh]

farenheit 9/11

If I had to classify myself with a certain party, I would be a Republican, but damn that was a very powerful movie and it really showed alot of VERY SUSPICIOUS relationships regarding the Bush family and the Saudis.

I loved the part when he tried to get congressmen to sign their children up to go fight over in Iraq.

Even though I say I'd align with the Republicans, I really don't consider myself a Republican. I think Chris Rock put it best in his "Never Scared" HBO Special. This quote isn't direct but...


"I think all Republicans are idiots. I think all Democrats are idiots. Anyone who makes up their mind before they even hear an issue is a FUCKING IDIOT".

 

[Meerschaum]

If I had to classify myself with a certain party, I would be a Republican, but damn that was a very powerful movie and it really showed alot of VERY SUSPICIOUS relationships regarding the Bush family and the Saudis.

I loved the part when he tried to get congressmen to sign their children up to go fight over in Iraq.

Even though I say I'd align with the Republicans, I really don't consider myself a Republican. I think Chris Rock put it best in his "Never Scared" HBO Special. This quote isn't direct but...


"I think all Republicans are idiots. I think all Democrats are idiots. Anyone who makes up their mind before they even hear an issue is a FUCKING IDIOT".

I agree it was interesting, but to me it sets a bad precedent and I pretty much agree with Christopher Hitchens about it (although I usually disagree with hitchens)

You can make ANYONE look bad by using circumstantial evidence, pursuasive questions(IE: if he's not a saint, he must be the...? well what is he???), and of course omissin... lets think about it... take someone we can all agree was at least an 'okay' person, I'll be a jerk and pick George Washington.

Pot smoker (must be a madman?)
no teeth (must mistake rocks for walnuts when he's psychotic on that pot?)
wore a wig (must have pulled his hair out in a fit of rage after chewing rocks from being psychotic on pot?)
drank alcohol (probably while chewing on rocks, psychotic on pot in a fit of rage! we all know god dosent like that!)
spent time around guns/cannons (woah, this dude is a rightwing whackjob, pot smoking, wig wearing, toothless psycho?)

now thats not perfect, but you get my point, its easy to omit facts, twist things, and make someone appear much different then they really are, that being said I think Bush sucks.

 

[jweave23]

I thought he did as well as can be expected of him, in fact I thought it was a pretty good speech

If he manages to screw this up and lose to the bumbling idiot currently in office...well then he doesn't derserve it anyway.

And BTW if the best the R's can do is a fortunate son with limited speech capabilites and misleading agendas, well they are pretty sad themselves IMHO.

 

[DougMan]

We could argue the same about your dirty republicans.


At least Kerry doesn't constantly fall off bicyles, choke on pretzels, or invade random countries for no reason.

yea seriously. The first person that comes to my mind when you say pathetic is George W. Lucky for most of us we are not turning 19 next year. Those kids get free studying at Baghdad U! First lesson, how to dodge RPGs! Lucky bastards :blink:

I am not voting for Bush for the sole reason that he has divided the country so much. I haven't heard some rational political debate in awhile. People are so quick to jump to whats "good and evil', when in reality it is not so simple. Plus Bush saying he cant think of one mistake he has made since becoming president, what a joke.


Kerry spoke at my sisters high school graduation and he was awesome. I literally was in awe. He may be "boring" but we are talking about presidents not pop icons. If you dint vote for Kerry solely because he is not "charismatic" then you are an idiot IMO.

 

[lifted]

I thought he did as well as can be expected of him, in fact I thought it was a pretty good speech

If he manages to screw this up and lose to the bumbling idiot currently in office...well then he doesn't derserve it anyway.

And BTW if the best the R's can do is a fortunate son with limited speech capabilites and misleading agendas, well they are pretty sad themselves IMHO.

:goodpost:

 

[fiddler]

meerschaum,

how can you proclaim yourself a libertarian and actually support bush, ashcroft?!?

have you read the federalist paper? the laws that bush is passing, above all else, is reducing our liberty and rights to levels unimaginable by the founding fathers.

In the name of terrorism, we will protect you. another 4 years and bush will be able to send troops into your home, take you out, all on a paltry excuse of national security and you're a terrorist.

Cheney used to CEO of halliburton. now why does halliburton have a multi-billion dollar contract that was NOT open to bidding?!?

if you're a libertarian, i'll eat my foot.

fiddler

 

[Meerschaum]

meerschaum,

how can you proclaim yourself a libertarian and actually support bush, ashcroft?!?

have you read the federalist paper? the laws that bush is passing, above all else, is reducing our liberty and rights to levels unimaginable by the founding fathers.

In the name of terrorism, we will protect you. another 4 years and bush will be able to send troops into your home, take you out, all on a paltry excuse of national security and you're a terrorist.

Cheney used to CEO of halliburton. now why does halliburton have a multi-billion dollar contract that was NOT open to bidding?!?

if you're a libertarian, i'll eat my foot.

fiddler

I dont think I ever said I "supported" Bush, maybe you misread?, keep in mind just because 1: is an a**hole dosent make 2: a brite bulb.... I dont care for Bush or Kerry really...and I despise ppl like moore who help noone but themselves at everyones expense. (I say at our expense, because when we cast reality/objectivity/etc away, it turns into a 'perception' match)

 

[fiddler]

it just sounded like you were rooting for him. we need another washington or thomas jefferson.

professional politicians really suck.

fiddler

 

[size]

Cheney used to CEO of halliburton. now why does halliburton have a multi-billion dollar contract that was NOT open to bidding?!?

Just wondering, do you how many other companies do the work that Halliburton does?


On a different note, please keep this thread from turning into a huge argument about who is right and who is wrong. Be informative and precise. Don't be a dickhead.

 

[CEDeoudes59]

At least Kerry doesn't constantly fall off bicyles, choke on pretzels, or invade random countries for no reason.

Who said the following?

Saddam Hussein s WMD Are A Threat. (2004)

Leave Saddam Unfettered With Nuclear Weapons Or Weapons Of Mass Destruction Is Unacceptable. (2003)

If You Don t Believe Saddam Hussein Is A Threat With Nuclear Weapons, Then You Shouldn t Vote For Me. (2003)

Threat Of Saddam Hussein With Weapons Of Mass Destruction Is Real. (2002)

I Am Prepared To Hold Saddam Hussein Accountable And Destroy His Weapons Of Mass Destruction. (2002)





All quotes John Kerry. He's been saying that for 14 years. Stop blaming Bush.

I thought Kerry's speech was definitly the 'speech of his life'. A wake up call to me and should be to all Republicans to take this seriously.

Kerry only mentioned the first 20 years of his life.

The record is: 4 months of Vietnam (which I greatly respect) & 126 months of voting AGAINST national defense.

It was a good speech, but at the end of the day - it won't explain his horendous record.

 

[jrkarp]

At least Kerry doesn't constantly fall off bicyles, choke on pretzels,

Right, because those are the major qualifications for leader of the free world.

or invade random countries for no reason.

1. Iraq was hardly "random," and I certainly hope you don't think Afghanistan was "random" either.

2. The reason that GWB invaded Iraq (originally) was believed by Kerry, the French, Germans, Russians, the rest of the UN, and pretty much everybody else that was either against the invasion at the time or is against the war now.

I thought Kerry's speech was definitly the 'speech of his life'. A wake up call to me and should be to all Republicans to take this seriously.

It was certainly the best I've seen him do, and I give him credit. But even so, he still has the charm and charisma of my gym bag. I do agree that we need to take this as a serious threat, and I am a bit worried about this election.

However, he's still full of ****.

"My name is John Kerry and I'm reporting for duty." Please ignore the videos of me calling American troops baby killers and the interview of me where I talk about throwing my medals over the fence. Because I'm proud of my military service, since it is now politically advantageous to do so.

"Never will I send American troops into battle without the proper armor to keep them safe [etc]." Even though I voted against all the bills to give them better equipment.

/karp

 

[jrkarp]

Cheney used to CEO of halliburton. now why does halliburton have a multi-billion dollar contract that was NOT open to bidding?!?

Because they've been doing business in the Middle East for years and thus already have the infrastructure in place to do the work. Awarding the bid to anyone else would have cost more time and money. Not that there's really very many (if any) other companies that have the capacity to do this kind of work on this scale.

There is, BTW, not one shred of evidence that Cheney has lifted a finger to help Halliburton since he's been in office.

/karp

 

[houseman]

Seriously, is this the best that the Democrats can do? It's kind of pathetic. I can't wait to see him lose.

/karp

At least he can pronounce all the words in his speech correctly.

 

[jboogie]

1. Iraq was hardly "random," and I certainly hope you don't think Afghanistan was "random" either.

No, it was 100% random. There is currently no evidence that Iraq was any threat to us at all.

Afghanistan wasn't random. It was very key. So why did we only send 11,000 troops in (as opposed to the 160k in Iraq)? Why did it take us two months to get into the mountains where Osama was?

2. The reason that GWB invaded Iraq (originally) was believed by Kerry, the French, Germans, Russians, the rest of the UN, and pretty much everybody else that was either against the invasion at the time or is against the war now.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5412317/site/newsweek

"The CIA official quickly responded: 'Let's keep in mind the fact that this war's going to happen regardless of what Curve Ball said or didn't say,' he wrote."

Yes, Kerry certainly seemed to have access to fair and balanced intelligence reports, didn't he?

Perhaps without these false reports, the rest of the world didn't see the need to go along with us.

UN knew they had weapons of mass destruction you say?

http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/MiddleEast/Iraq/BuildingTheCase.asp#InspectionProcessSoFarRevealsNoReasonForWar


The difference between liberals and conservatives is that liberals can at least take new information, revise their assumptions and admit they were wrong.

Bush and Cheny are still insisting a connection between Iraq and Al Qaeda, give me a break.

 

[jboogie]

Please ignore the videos of me calling American troops baby killers and the interview of me where I talk about throwing my medals over the fence. Because I'm proud of my military service, since it is now politically advantageous to do so.

Please site some sort of source for the baby killer comment. I can't find any place where he does it. This is as close I can get:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/23/kerry.vietnam/

 

[jrkarp]

Please site some sort of source for the baby killer comment. I can't find any place where he does it. This is as close I can get:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/23/kerry.vietnam/

He made many televised appearances during that era and also co-authored a book. I'll try to find a source but it'll take some time. I'm sure I read it or heard it somewhere.

/karp

 

[jrkarp]

No, it was 100% random. There is currently no evidence that Iraq was any threat to us at all.

You are correct; there is currently no evidence.

Yes, Kerry certainly seemed to have access to fair and balanced intelligence reports, didn't he?

Perhaps without these false reports, the rest of the world didn't see the need to go along with us.

No he did not. Neither did Bush. Everyone was misled by the CIA.

UN knew they had weapons of mass destruction you say?

http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/MiddleEast/Iraq/BuildingTheCase.asp#InspectionProcessSoFarRevealsNoReasonForWar

1. Please find (you probably can) a less biased source for this information.

2. We know he had them before, because he used them before. He had no records of what he did with them. This is a problem. A very large problem. Note Hans Blix's quote about records: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2558001.stm

3. Hussein had kicked weapons inspectors out of the country before, and denied them access to certain places. This certainly shows that he had something to hide.

4. Iraq is the size of California. Just because we haven't found them doesn't mean we never will.

The difference between liberals and conservatives is that liberals can at least take new information, revise their assumptions and admit they were wrong.

We were probably wrong about the WMD. But pretty much everyone has stopped calling Bush a liar because it has become very clear that he was misled by the CIA just like everyone else. Either way, though Hussein had to go at some point. He was a destablilizing influence in a part of the world that is very important to our economy and thus to our national security.

And what if Hussein had had WMD's? What if he did supply them to a terrorist group? Can you imagine a chemical attack in a city like New York? Personally, I think that the risk of that happening (which was at least a remote possibility, based on what we new at the time), is enough to justify a war. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

/karp

 

[stryder]

No the difference between liberals and conservatives is conservatives don't have their saddles strapped on the fence...

I actually was impressed with Kerry's speech but when it comes down to when the rubber meets the road, Kerry's speach didn't line up with his actions. Like for instance his track record for military spending and now he's all for increasing our defenses and destroying the enemy...his speech was entertaining, but whether he'll follow through is questionable.

 

[MarcusG]

Because they've been doing business in the Middle East for years and thus already have the infrastructure in place to do the work. Awarding the bid to anyone else would have cost more time and money. Not that there's really very many (if any) other companies that have the capacity to do this kind of work on this scale.

There is, BTW, not one shred of evidence that Cheney has lifted a finger to help Halliburton since he's been in office.

/karp

Isn;t that besides the point?? If Halliburton could do the work so much cheaper then why not open up the process to have more transparency?

Not a single shred? Wasn't there news about Pentagon emails with Cheney's office and a recent article in the Time magazine?

Isn't it more reasonable to assume cronyism on Bush's and Cheney's part due to their long association with the oil industry and Halliburton being a beneficiary of corporate welfare?

What about Halliburton's oil scandal in Iraq?

 

[jboogie]

No he did not. Neither did Bush. Everyone was misled by the CIA.

Yeah, everyone in the US. What about those other countries and the UN? Oh, right, they didn't want to go to war for a reason. Their intelligence sources didn't turn up any evidence.

1. Please find (you probably can) a less biased source for this information.

Is it biased, or does it just collect the facts relative to a particular point of view? There's a difference.

The source you cited only had one quote from blix, and it's mentioned in my source.

2. We know he had them before, because he used them before. He had no records of what he did with them.

Yes, because we gave them to him. As you'll note from my original list, there was a huge amount of pressure on Iraq and they were cooperating more and more.

3. Hussein had kicked weapons inspectors out of the country before, and denied them access to certain places. This certainly shows that he had something to hide.

See my last comment. Maybe he was just a prick, until the gun was pointed at him. He certainly seemed to be cooperating at the end.

4. Iraq is the size of California. Just because we haven't found them doesn't mean we never will.

Lesse, 18 months, 160k troops, offering rewards for info to half the population and torturing the everloving **** out of the other half... I'm willing to bet we're not going to find anything.

We were probably wrong about the WMD. But pretty much everyone has stopped calling Bush a liar because it has become very clear that he was misled by the CIA just like everyone else.

I find it interesting the one thing you failed to quote from my last post was the quote of the CIA official talking about "how the war is going to happen no matter what". Remember Richard Pearle? It seems pretty obvious that the administration got the intelligence results it wanted. Politics shaping intelligence reports.

Anyways, who's stopped calling bush a liar? Look at his ridiculous and continued resistance to the 9/11 report which has been satisfyingly thorough and fair. Look at him and Cheney STILL (as of two or 3 weeks ago) insisting a link between Iraq and Al Qeada. Whatever. Rumsfeld met with Saddam in the 80's. I guess we must have a connection between the USA and Saddam, we'd better invade ourselves.

And what if Hussein had had WMD's? What if he did supply them to a terrorist group? Can you imagine a chemical attack in a city like New York? Personally, I think that the risk of that happening (which was at least a remote possibility, based on what we new at the time), is enough to justify a war. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Well, then call up the prez. Israel has unauthorized nukes. Pakistan too, and theyir scientists are selling nuke secrets. Oh, and Saudi Arabia seems to fund an awful lot of Al Qaeda activity, don't they? When you're done with that, we can hit Iran and Syria.

Look at all the times Israel has defied the UN:

http://www.middleeastnews.com/unresolutionslist.html

Isreal nukes:
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke/

Pakistani nuke secrets sold to our enemies:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/02/02/pakistan.nuclear/

evidence that's more solid about iran and al queda than Iraq and any terrorist dealings:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5457389/site/newsweek/

Evidence the saudi government may have directly funded 9/11 terrorists:

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/11/23/saudi.fbi.911/

It'd be great if our bible thumping fundie leaders could tell Israel to go **** itself. In case you didn't notice, all of these religeous nutballs here (in the US) and in the middle east are the cause of all our troubles.


Anyways, I'm done arguing about this. I'm sure that Bush will get re-elected this fall and continue to play into the terrorist's hands. At some point, the UN is going to have to come bail us out when all 3 billion Arabs are trying to kill us.

 

[jrkarp]

I'm done too. Let's just agree to disagree for now, and see what happens in the election.

I often tend to forget this:

 

[fiddler]

Isn;t that besides the point?? If Halliburton could do the work so much cheaper then why not open up the process to have more transparency?

Not a single shred? Wasn't there news about Pentagon emails with Cheney's office and a recent article in the Time magazine?

Isn't it more reasonable to assume cronyism on Bush's and Cheney's part due to their long association with the oil industry and Halliburton being a beneficiary of corporate welfare?

What about Halliburton's oil scandal in Iraq?

nah bro. they're republicans. They're not about money or power...they just want what's best for you.

ONLY halliburton can do the job. there's no other company that does oil exploration or services. There's no ties between
bush, cheney and halliburton at all.

I wonder what these people would have said if Clinton had simply picked a company for ALL govermental contracts and said that it was the best company because they are the cheapest.

guys, can you not be a conservative and also be open minded and want to have a open govt.?

i suppose you like patriot act 1 and 2 too?

i'll leave you with a message.

"But you must remember, my fellow-citizens, that eternal vigilance by the people is the price of liberty, and that you must pay the price if you wish to secure the blessing. It behooves you, therefore, to be watchful in your States as well as in the Federal Government." -- Andrew Jackson

The great leaders of the past realised that the only real threat to America is from within the power structure.

fiddler

 

[PC1]

................Even though I say I'd align with the Republicans, I really don't consider myself a Republican. I think Chris Rock put it best in his "Never Scared" HBO Special. This quote isn't direct but...


"I think all Republicans are idiots. I think all Democrats are idiots. Anyone who makes up their mind before they even hear an issue is a FUCKING IDIOT".

One of my cousins has a really great bumper sticker on her car..................


Democrats.............. Republicans

Same ****, different pile.

 

[PC1]

...........I thought he did as well as can be expected of him, in fact I thought it was a pretty good speech ........

I actually thought he did a good job with his speech and overall presentation as well. I don't believe it will have mattered one way or another in the end, but he did a good job.

I have to say that the part of the DNC I enjoyed the best was when one of his daughters was recounting a childhood episode when her pet hamster in it's cage fell into the water and Kerry dove into the water to rescue it. Apparently he dove repeatedly in order to save it and was able to do so successfully, even giving it mild CPR. It was funny to see Ted Kennedy's reaction to this story, squirming and writhing in his chair like the guy in the TV commercial............. you know the one? The dude who forgot his Preparation H at home? Yeah, you could just see the Mary Jo Kopechne incident tape reels playing vividly in his mind during that one.......

Sorry Weave, couldn't resist

 

[fiddler]

that's hilarious. the bumper sticker and kennedy. either he doesn't like the story or he needs preparation H!

too bad the republican's that promised term limits for senators lied their ass off.

i guess the best we can do is to get along as well as we can with the 2 partys since there won't be any change any time soon.

bummer.

fiddler

 

[CEDeoudes59]

Kerry will have trouble defending his record. The call for a truce with Bush on Negative campaigning is completely hypocritical. To be fair, Bush's ads are certainly negative.
I'll say it again, the democrats should have nominated more of a moderate. America isn't going to elect Mr. #1 Liberal and Mr. #4 Liberal - or a Senator from Mass.
The party has no room for moderates. Liberman, Bill Richardson (although he was chairman of the DNC), and guys like Zell Miller have been basically ignored.
It is the party of the Clintons, Gores, Kerrys, Deans, Sharptons, etc.

 

[bigmark1972]

Doudes you listen to Hannity don't ya.

Check out this link.
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com

Some war hero... What a tool

 

[CEDeoudes59]

Doudes you listen to Hannity don't ya.

Check out this link.
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com

Some war hero... What a tool

Thanks for that site, im going to link that on AIM

Definitly, Sean Hannity brought up a 'overlooked' or 'forgotten' point on Weapons of Mass Destruction.

WMD existed. Saddam killed his thousands own people with them numerous times. We know this. The fact we haven't found the stockpiles in Iraq is all that the Democrats hang onto in this election.

To say these "never" existed is a lie. The gulf war show this and the mass graves of Iraqi families rotting beside each other show this.

Getting the far-left to admit the world (or Iraq) is better without Saddam is impossible. They won't even be rational - even if they are against the war.

We catch Saddam, good news for America and Iraq. Bad news for Democrats. Good economic news, Good for America, Bad for Democrats. Their entire policy is based on the failure of this country.

Kerry is fraud.

"Requiring families to hold bake sale to pay for body amour isn't values"

Kerry voted the popular to send the!troops to war.
Kerry voted against protection to protect them to beat Dean.

His politcal ambition is apparently more important than the lives for our armed forces. He should be ashamed of himself.

 

[bigmark1972]

Everyone seems to forget the clinton administration bombing the hell out of them conveniently right after the news of the spooged blue dress came out.

Gore is a tool as well "he played on our fears he betrayed this country" what a moron, that entire administration acknowledged he had WOMD.

I tried to watch some of the DNC but it gets me so pissed off, I should have taped it and played it before legs lol.

BTW Bush was in My hometown today, I really hope he can take Michigan. My brother went to see him and promote his site but I had to finish an important project at work.:frustrate

Checkout my brothers website, it's somewhat new but we could use a few more good republicans stop by and check it out. :thumbsup:
www.peoplesnation.com

You liberal bastards can come over also, we have a special section where we can but heads anything goes style :rasp:

 

[CEDeoudes59]

You liberal bastards can come over also, we have a special section where we can but heads anything goes style :rasp:

Terrorism built up 8 years under Clinton and 7 months on Bush before 9/11. I believe they both have responsibility in not doing enough to prevent 9/11. With that said, 9/11 couldn't have been prevented.

I respect democrats, the libermans, zell millers, and bill richardsons.

This group of far left bomb throwing socialists, I do not respect whatsoever. Dean is the biggest piece of **** of all.

Michael Moore gets to sit in the presidental suite with Bill Clinton at the DNC. He gets over 30 interviews in 4 days. The Media wants out Bush out - this isnt the way to do it.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

And BTW if the best the R's can do is a fortunate son with limited speech capabilites and misleading agendas, well they are pretty sad themselves IMHO

Most politicians are fortunate sons. There is another one running for president too his name is john Kerry. Gore was one as well.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

I am reading allot of parroting of Michael (Dude where is my double burger) Moore's ideas presented in Farenhight 9-11. In case you guys didn't know the movie has some several problems with presenting false evidence and deliberately manipulating some things. He did this in his last movie as well. Did you guys know Clinton had 4 opportunities to get Bin Laden. On one occasion the Sudanese basically offered him to us on a silver planter. Bubba declined to take him. He was recorded talking about why he turned down the offer and then turned around and denied it. Funny how that got left out of that fat socialists movie.Did the press call him on it? NO. Richard Clark said that the WMDs were sent to Syria.
Why aren't any of you upset that Halliburton got the contract for Somalia or about Clinton's wars?
You guys are also aware that most of the countries that were against us such as France, Germany, Russia, and the UN were all getting paid off by Sadam. If this is news to you look up the oil for food scandal. I will also point out that Sadam was in violations of the UN's own resolutions for years. If they had been enforcing them we would not be in Iraq today.
There is also some evidence that there is an Iraq/ Al Queada link. As I said in another thread news week ran an article about it in 1999. ABC news also ran a story about it shortly after that. Of coarse now there can be no link in the presses mind because it would help Bush. Czech intelligence also reported that Mohamed Atta met with Iraqi officials. They stand by that to this day.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

I don't know how you guys can seriously get excited about or think that Kerry is a good politician. He's not. It's the equivalent of saying dubya is a articulate speaker. You guys say Bush is Dumb but Kerry says things like I voted for it before I voted against it, I don't own an SUV my family does, or that he believes that life starts at conception but is for a woman's right to choose. His whole face looks like it has been injected with botox and his personality follows suite. How about his wife denying she said something when she literally said it a minute before that, then telling a reporter to shove it after they question her about it.

 

[jboogie]

Definitly, Sean Hannity brought up a 'overlooked' or 'forgotten' point on Weapons of Mass Destruction.

WMD existed. Saddam killed his thousands own people with them numerous times. We know this. The fact we haven't found the stockpiles in Iraq is all that the Democrats hang onto in this election.

To say these "never" existed is a lie. The gulf war show this and the mass graves of Iraqi families rotting beside each other show this.

You people are incorrigible! WMD were NOT used in the gulf war. Please show me a news source that says otherwise. And yes, I've heard of Gulf War Syndrome and how they're trying to blame it on chemical or nerve agents. But is there any conclusive proof of this?

Here's an 'overlooked' or 'forgotten' point for you: we sent the UN in to disarm iraq's **** after the gulf war:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theissues/article/0,6512,794275,00.html

[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]So had the inspectors failed? [/font]

[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]Prior to their departure, the inspection teams had destroyed or made unusable 48 long range missiles, 14 conventional missile warheads, 30 chemical warheads, "supergun" components, close to 40,000 chemical munitions, 690 tonnes of chemical weapons agents and the al-Hakam biological weapons plant. It had discovered evidence of a nuclear programme that was more advanced than previously expected. [/font]

[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]Some inspectors suspected that Iraq's NBC programmes remained intact. However, the former Unscom inspector, Scott Ritter, insisted that Iraq was left with no capability to resume NBC programmes or weaponise any hidden stocks. The Bush administration refuses to accept this, but with no reliable monitoring since 1998, there is no way of knowing if Iraq still has weapons of mass destruction.

[/font]

[font=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]So, Hannity's point would be valid if it was 1992, but it's not.
[/font]

 

[bigmark1972]

WMD existed. Saddam killed his thousands own people with them numerous times. We know this. The fact we haven't found the stockpiles in Iraq is all that the Democrats hang onto in this election

He is right you Lib, do some research!

Chemical Ali," Saddam's cousin and a key general and governor of southern Iraq, earned his chilling nickname by using chemical weapons to suppress a Kurdish rebellion in northern Iraq in the late 1980s, killing thousands.

Here are some pictures of a few of the attacks on the kurds if you still want to deny he ever had WOMD.


http://www.krg.org/reference/halabja/halabja4.asp

These are graphic so be warned.

 

[jrkarp]

(not originally mine, reprinted without permission)

John Kerry's Resume

RESIDENCE: 7 mansions, including Washington DC , worth multi-millions

LAW ENFORCEMENT: I voted to cut every law enforcement, CIA and defense bill in my
career as a US Senator. I ordered Boston to remove a fire hydrant
in front of my mansion, thereby endangering my neighbors in the
event of fire.

MILITARY: I used three minor injuries to get an early discharge from the
military and service in Vietnam . I then returned to the US ,
joined Jane Fonda in protesting the war, and insulted returning Vietnam
vets, claiming they committed atrocities and were baby killers. I threw
my medals, ribbons, or something away in protest. Or did I?
My book "Vietnam Veterans Against the War: The New Soldier" shows
how I truly feel about the military.

COLLEGE: I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. Unlike my
counterpart George Bush, I have no higher education and did not get
admitted to Harvard nor graduate with an M.B.A

PAST WORK EXPERIENCE: I ran for U.S. Congress and have been there ever since. I have no
real world experience except marrying rich women and running HJ Heinz
vicariously through my wife Teresa.

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS US Senator: I set the record for the most liberal voting record, exceeding even
Ted Kennedy and Hillary Clinton. I have consistently failed to
support our military and CIA by voting against budgets, thus gutting our
country's ability to defend itself. Although I voted for the Iraq War,
now I am against it and refuse to admit that I voted for it.
I voted for every liberal piece of legislation. I have no plan to help
this country but I intend to raise taxes significantly if I am elected.
My wealth so far exceeds that of my counterpart, George Bush, that
he will never catch up. I make no or little charitable contributions and
have never agreed to pay any voluntary excess taxes in MA, despite
family wealth in excess of $ 700 million.

Although I claim to be in favor of alternative energy sources, Ted
Kennedy and I oppose windmills off Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard
as it might spoil our view of the ocean as we cruise on our yachts.

RECORDS AND REFERENCES:

None.

PERSONAL: I ride a Serotta Bike.
My Gulfstream G V Jet I call "The Flying Squirrel" ( About $57
million and change).
I call my $ 850,000 42 foot Hinckley twin diesel yacht the "Scaramouch".
I am fascinated by rap and hip-hop music, and you had better listen
to it, as it reflects our real culture!
I own several SUVs including one parked at my Nantucket summer
mansion, though I am against large polluting inefficient vehicles
and blame George Bush for the energy problems.


PLEASE CONSIDER MY EXPERIENCE WHEN VOTING IN 2004

 

[jrkarp]

And those of you who say Bush is a liar and that he was unjustified in invading Iraq, check out these gems:

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line." - President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program." - President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biolo gical weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face." - Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten time since 1983." - Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb 18,1998

"We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the US Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." - Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin (D-MI), Tom Daschle (D-SD), John Kerry (D - MA), and others Oct. 9,1998

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossiâle to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." - Al`Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept.27, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9,2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda me mbers.. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." - Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real" - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

 

[jweave23]

(not originally mine, reprinted without permission)

John Kerry's Resume....

This character assassination by the right is getting ridiculous. We could do the same thing to Bush easily, and it gets neither side anywhere. So far it seems that the conservatives are annoyed that they haven't found enough in the way of adultery and/or lack of military service, their typical weapons of choice when attacking liberals, to get them an excellent footing for spewing their hate attacks. It seems to me that the left is not concerning themselves as much with killing Bush's character and/or history as they are concerned with what has actually happened since he took office, which I (as well as many others) have found little in the way of positives for this country. You can demonize Kerry all you want, but all a rational person has to do is look at Bush's record in office and the general place the US is in right now to see we are going down the wrong road, IMHO.

This post seems to be one of those typical right wind propaganda chain e-mails that I get from my Republican friends, filled with half-truths, some conjecture, and a pinch of bullshit. I do truly believe this is an incredibly important election, and I am constantly amazed to see how far the brainwashed, right wing zombies will go to defend their fuhrer without question. Oh well, that is politics I suppose

 

[size]

These posts are becoming ridiculous.
The character assassination happens on both sides and it is despicable.

 

[bigmark1972]

So far it seems that the conservatives are annoyed that they haven't found enough in the way of adultery and/or lack of military service,

He served in Nam for 4 months, he was never shot, his wounds were VERY superficial, as soon as he could he high tailed it out of there and left his men behind. As soon as he got home he joined up with hanoi jane fonda and preceeded to **** on all of the men he had served with that were still over there risking their lives.

Fonda's tour of North Vietnam in 1972, during which she cozied up to the enemy, posing for photo ops with communist troops and broadcasting anti-American propaganda over Radio Hanoi. She also participated in a staged press conference with American servicemen held captive by the Viet Cong, the purpose of which was to "prove" that the POWs were not being mistreated by their captors. Years later when the released POWs described the very real torture and degradation they suffered at the hands of the North Vietnamese, Fonda called them "hypocrites and liars."

 

[Number 5]

COLLEGE: I [Kerry] graduated from Yale University with a low C average.

could you provide a source for this. i'm not saying that you are lying, but i heard an interview of Douglas Brinkley, who wrote a book on Kerry, and he mentioned that Kerry was one of the top students at Yale.

-5

 

[Number 5]

He served in Nam for 4 months, he was never shot, his wounds were VERY superficial, as soon as he could he high tailed it out of there and left his men behind.

he served 4 years in the navy. 4.5 months in the swift boat. a post he requested even though swift boat sailors suffered high casualty rates. he got all the medals because he repeatedly put his life on the line. there are not many people in politics these days who can claim to have done the same.

when he got back home he protested the war to bring his fellow soldiers back home.

even if the man had lost 3 limbs in 'nam right-wing extremists would be calling his wounds self-inflicted.

-5

 

[Number 5]

I'll say it again, the democrats should have nominated more of a moderate. America isn't going to elect Mr. #1 Liberal and Mr. #4 Liberal - or a Senator from Mass.

another popular misrepresentation by republicans and the hangers on. Kerry is not the most liberal senator in the US. he voted against the tax-cuts because he is fiscally conservative. The National Journal scored those votes as "liberal" even though you could argue they were conservative votes, and Kerry missed most of the other votes because he was out campaigning so the journal (mis)labelled as a liberal.

-5

 

[VanillaGorilla]

This character assassination by the right is getting ridiculous. We could do the same thing to Bush easily, and it gets neither side anywhere. So far it seems that the conservatives are annoyed that they haven't found enough in the way of adultery and/or lack of military service, their typical weapons of choice when attacking liberals, to get them an excellent footing for spewing their hate attacks.

Give me a break Jw. Your smart enought to know the left does the extact same thing.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

another popular misrepresentation by republicans and the hangers on. Kerry is not the most liberal senator in the US.

The fact is Kerry has the most liberal voting record in the senate. The national journal is non partisan. Libs have often used it in the past to say certain candidates are too conservative. Now they are pissed the tables have turned.

he voted against the tax-cuts because he is fiscally conservative. The National Journal scored those votes as "liberal" even though you could argue they were conservative votes, and Kerry missed most of the other votes because he was out campaigning so the journal (mis)labelled as a liberal.

What are you taxing about here? Tax cuts........ the notion of you keeping more of your own money is generally a conservative principle. Voting against tax cuts would be a liberal position not fiscally conservative. If you'r trying to say that it is fiscally conservative because of balancing the budget, I take it you would support cutting government spending as well?

 

[jboogie]

He is right you Lib, do some research!

Chemical Ali," Saddam's cousin and a key general and governor of southern Iraq, earned his chilling nickname by using chemical weapons to suppress a Kurdish rebellion in northern Iraq in the late 1980s, killing thousands.

Here are some pictures of a few of the attacks on the kurds if you still want to deny he ever had WOMD.


http://www.krg.org/reference/halabja/halabja4.asp

These are graphic so be warned.

How's your reading comprehension? I asked for proof that he used them in the gulf war, you conservie.

 

[jboogie]

George W. Bush Resume

Past work experience:
​

• Ran for congress and lost.
• Produced a Hollywood slasher B movie.
• Bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas, company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.
• Bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using tax-payer money. Biggest move: Traded Sammy Sosa to the Chicago White Sox.
• With fathers help (and his name) was elected Governor of Texas.
• Accomplishments: Changed pollution laws for power and oil companies and made Texas the most polluted state in the Union. Replaced Los Angeles with Houston as the most smog ridden city in America. Cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas government to the tune of billions in borrowed money. Set record for most executions by any Governor in American history.
• Became president after losing the popular vote by over 500,000 votes, with the help of my fathers appointments to the Supreme Court.

Accomplishments as president:
​

• Attacked and took over two countries.
• Spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury.
• Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history.
• Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.
• Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.
• First president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.
• First president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.
• First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history.
• After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in US history.
• Set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips than any other president in US history.
• In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their job.
• Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in US history.
• Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12 month period.
• Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history.
• Set the record for the least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television.
• Signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any president in US history.
• Presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.
• Presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.
• Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans.
• Set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest me (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind. (http://www.hyperreal.org/~dana/marches/)
• Dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history.
• My presidency is the most secretive and un-accountable of any in US history.
• Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history. (the 'poorest' multi-millionaire, Condoleeza Rice has an Chevron oil tanker named after her).
• First president in US history to have all 50 states of the Union simultaneously go bankrupt.
• Presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in the history of the world.
• First president in US history to order a US attack and military occupation of a sovereign nation.
• Created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States.
• Set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any president in US history.
• First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the human rights commission.
• First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the elections monitoring board.
• Removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in US history.
• Rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.
• Withdrew from the World Court of Law.
• Refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.
• First president in US history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 US elections).
• All-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.
• My biggest life-time campaign contributor presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).
• Spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in US history.
• First president in US history to unilaterally attack a sovereign nation against the will of the United Nations and the world community.
• First president to run and hide when the US came under attack (and then lied saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)
• First US president to establish a secret shadow government.
• Took the biggest world sympathy for the US after 911, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).
• With a policy of 'dis-engagement' created the most hostile Israeli-Palestine relations in at least 30 years.
• First US president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.
• First US president in history to have the people of South Korea more threatened by the US than their immediate neighbor, North Korea.
• Changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.
• Set all-time record for number of administration appointees who violated US law by not selling huge investments in corporations bidding for government contracts.
• Failed to fulfill my pledge to get Osama Bin Laden 'dead or alive'.
• Failed to capture the anthrax killer who tried to murder the leaders of our country at the United States Capitol building. After 18 months I have no leads and zero suspects.
• In the 18 months following the 911 attacks I have successfully prevented any public investigation into the biggest security failure in the history of the United States.
• Removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in US history.
• In a little over two years created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided the US has ever been since the civil war.
• Entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.

Records and References:
​

• At least one conviction for drunk driving in Maine (Texas driving record has been erased and is not available).
• AWOL from National Guard and Deserted the military during a time of war.
• Refused to take drug test or even answer any questions about drug use.
• All records of my tenure as governor of Texas have been spirited away to my fathers library, sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view.
• All records of any SEC investigations into my insider trading or bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view.
• All minutes of meetings for any public corporation I served on the board are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view.
• Any records or minutes from meetings I (or my VP) attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public review.
• For personal references please speak to my daddy or uncle James Baker (They can be reached at their offices of the Carlyle Group for war-profiteering.)