Top Government Insider: Bin Laden Died In 2001, 9/11 A False Flag

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by HondaV65 View Post
    What's the government's "official" story?
    Eyes Wide Shut: Gross Negligence with NIST Denial of Molten Metal on 9/11

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  2. THERMITE DEBUNKED ... LOL

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  3. Quote Originally Posted by HondaV65 View Post
    WHERE IS YOUR PHYSICAL EVIDENCE? YOU HAVE NONE!!
    whre is yours?
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  4. Quote Originally Posted by HondaV65 View Post
    THERMITE DEBUNKED ... LOL

    They found thermite in the dust, this was the scientists. This video does not address this issue neither does the government or popular mechanics. Popular Mechanics wont even debate their theory.
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  6. Honda, if you care so much about your theories why dont you attend an event and you can meet some of these Architects, Engineers, Demolition experts and you can teach them the truth?

    You can stay in touch and look at the schedule, I believe there is an even in California coming soon.

    http://www.ae911truth.org/en/events.html
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  7. One of the seismologists, Won-Young Kim, told AFP that the Palisades seismographs register daily underground explosions from a quarry 20 miles away. These blasts are caused by 80,000 lbs. of ammonium nitrate and cause local earthquakes between Magnitude 1 and 2. Kim said the 1993 truck-bomb at the WTC did not register on the seismographs because it was "not coupled" to the ground.

    Experts cannot explain why the seismic waves peaked before the towers hit the ground. Asked about these spikes seismologist Arthur Lerner-Lam, director of Columbia University's Center for Hazards and Risk Research told AFP, "This is an element of current research and discussion. It is still being investigated."
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  8. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    3 scientists found Thermite in the WTC dust all posted above
    The thermite was a result of naturally occurring chemical reactions that came about from the burning planes ...

    READ ...

    http://www.911myths.com/WTCTHERM.pdf

    The molten aluminum re-ignites some of the smoldering fires and rapidly burns through
    other combustible materials that survived the initial conflagration. Molten aluminum also
    falls onto fractured concrete, gypsum and rusted steel surfaces inducing violent thermite
    explosions, dispersing globules of molten metal and igniting new fires.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by HondaV65 View Post
    The thermite was a result of naturally occurring chemical reactions that came about from the burning planes ...

    READ ...

    http://www.911myths.com/WTCTHERM.pdf
    Ok good, now sign the petition I gave you so we can start this new independent investigation and you can bring this info to the scientists so they can all investigate the possibilities of the chemical reactions. Prove them wrong.
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  10. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Honda, if you care so much about your theories why dont you attend an event and you can meet some of these Architects, Engineers, Demolition experts and you can teach them the truth?

    You can stay in touch and look at the schedule, I believe there is an even in California coming soon.

    http://www.ae911truth.org/en/events.html
    Because I'm not interested in talking to a room full of Alex Drone idiots - that's why.

    The only reason I saw fit to even post here is because you're spewing your filth to the public at large and deserve to be mocked for it. Do your little "tin foil conspiracy" theories in your little private parties - but please - some of us out here have thinking brains.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Ok good, now sign the petition I gave you so we can start this new independent investigation and you can bring this info to the scientists so they can all investigate the possibilities of the chemical reactions. Prove them wrong.
    Why? The Thermite is explained - there is no need to take my tax dollars to hold an investigation and explain something that scientists have already explained.

    I pay for this **** dude ... and last time I checked - we're out of money in this nation.

  12. Intercepts Not Routine
    CLAIM:
    "It has been standard operating procedures for decades to immediately intercept off-course planes that do not respond to communications from air traffic controllers," says the Web site oilempire.us. "When the Air Force 'scrambles' a fighter plane to intercept, they usually reach the plane in question in minutes."



    FACT: In the decade before 9/11, NORAD intercepted only one civilian plane over North America: golfer Payne Stewart's Learjet, in October 1999. With passengers and crew unconscious from cabin decompression, the plane lost radio contact but remained in transponder contact until it crashed. Even so, it took an F-16 1 hour and 22 minutes to reach the stricken jet. Rules in effect back then, and on 9/11, prohibited supersonic flight on intercepts. Prior to 9/11, all other NORAD interceptions were limited to offshore Air Defense Identification Zones (ADIZ). "Until 9/11 there was no domestic ADIZ," FAA spokesman Bill Schumann tells PM. After 9/11, NORAD and the FAA increased cooperation, setting up hotlines between ATCs and NORAD command centers, according to officials from both agencies. NORAD has also increased its fighter coverage and has installed radar to monitor airspace over the continent.
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  13. Widespread Damage
    CLAIM:
    The first hijacked plane crashed through the 94th to the 98th floors of the World Trade Center's 110-story North Tower; the second jet slammed into the 78th to the 84th floors of the 110-story South Tower. The impact and ensuing fires disrupted elevator service in both buildings. Plus, the lobbies of both buildings were visibly damaged before the towers collapsed. "There is NO WAY the impact of the jet caused such widespread damage 80 stories below," claims a posting on the San Diego Independent Media Center Web site (sandiego.indymedia.org). "It is OBVIOUS and irrefutable that OTHER EXPLOSIVES (... such as concussion bombs) HAD ALREADY BEEN DETONATED in the lower levels of tower one at the same time as the plane crash."

    FACT: Following up on a May 2002 preliminary report by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), a major study will be released in spring 2005 by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), a branch of the U.S. Department of Commerce. NIST shared its initial findings with PM and made its lead researcher available to our team of reporters.
    The NIST investigation revealed that plane debris sliced through the utility shafts at the North Tower's core, creating a conduit for burning jet fuel--and fiery destruction throughout the building. "It's very hard to document where the fuel went," says Forman Williams, a NIST adviser and a combustion expert, "but if it's atomized and combustible and gets to an ignition source, it'll go off."
    Burning fuel traveling down the elevator shafts would have disrupted the elevator systems and caused extensive damage to the lobbies. NIST heard first-person testimony that "some elevators slammed right down" to the ground floor. "The doors cracked open on the lobby floor and flames came out and people died," says James Quintiere, an engineering professor at the University of Maryland and a NIST adviser. A similar observation was made in the French documentary "9/11," by Jules and Gedeon Naudet. As Jules Naudet entered the North Tower lobby, minutes after the first aircraft struck, he saw victims on fire, a scene he found too horrific to film.
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  14. "Melted" Steel
    CLAIM:
    "We have been lied to," announces the Web site AttackOnAmerica.net. "The first lie was that the load of fuel from the aircraft was the cause of structural failure. No kerosene fire can burn hot enough to melt steel." The posting is entitled "Proof Of Controlled Demolition At The WTC."
    PM implies that the argument that jet fuel burning in open fires cannot melt steel is a straw man invented by skeptics, when in fact the jet-fuel-melts-steel idea was trotted out by structural engineers quoted by the BBC on the day of the attack. J. McMichael pointed out the absurdity of this idea in Muslims Suspend Laws of Physics! and later responded to the subsequent explanations that softening of steel had caused the collapses with Muslims Suspend Laws of Physics! Part II.
    FACT: Jet fuel burns at 800 to 1500F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750F). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength--and that required exposure to much less heat. "I have never seen melted steel in a building fire," says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety. "But I've seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks."
    "Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800 it is probably at less than 10 percent." NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat.
    However, the idea that fire temperatures -- much less steel temperatures -- were anywhere close to 1800 F runs contrary to experience with building fires. Fire tests by Corus Construction recorded maximum steel temperatures of about 680F in UNINSULATED parking garages. The claim that insulation was knocked off the WTC steel is routinely invoked in defenses of the official story to make the weakening of the steel seem more plausible.
    But jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning, notes Forman Williams, a professor of engineering at the University of California, San Diego, and one of seven structural engineers and fire experts that PM consulted. He says that while the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832F.
    "The jet fuel was the ignition source," Williams tells PM. "It burned for maybe 10 minutes, and [the towers] were still standing in 10 minutes. It was the rest of the stuff burning afterward that was responsible for the heat transfer that eventually brought them down."
    But no amount of office contents burning has ever brought down a steel-frame high-rise before, even in fires more serious than in the Twin Towers and Building 7.
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  15. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Intercepts Not Routine
    CLAIM:
    "It has been standard operating procedures for decades to immediately intercept off-course planes that do not respond to communications from air traffic controllers," says the Web site oilempire.us. "When the Air Force 'scrambles' a fighter plane to intercept, they usually reach the plane in question in minutes."



    FACT: In the decade before 9/11, NORAD intercepted only one civilian plane over North America: golfer Payne Stewart's Learjet, in October 1999. With passengers and crew unconscious from cabin decompression, the plane lost radio contact but remained in transponder contact until it crashed. Even so, it took an F-16 1 hour and 22 minutes to reach the stricken jet. Rules in effect back then, and on 9/11, prohibited supersonic flight on intercepts. Prior to 9/11, all other NORAD interceptions were limited to offshore Air Defense Identification Zones (ADIZ). "Until 9/11 there was no domestic ADIZ," FAA spokesman Bill Schumann tells PM. After 9/11, NORAD and the FAA increased cooperation, setting up hotlines between ATCs and NORAD command centers, according to officials from both agencies. NORAD has also increased its fighter coverage and has installed radar to monitor airspace over the continent.
    Why are you posting this? It proves I'm right and you're wrong.

    Seriously - why would you post that? Alex Jones Troofer Drones have forever insisted there was some kind of defensive fighter canopy over the US and that Dick Cheney - a man who's not in any military chain of command - made that canopy stand down.

    That's been debunked - no such defensive canopy existed - and Dick Cheney wouldn't have had the authority to give orders to it if it did.

    LOL

  16. THE PENTAGON

    At 9:37 am on 9/11, 51 minutes after the first plane hit the World Trade Center, the Pentagon was similarly attacked. Though dozens of witnesses saw a Boeing 757 hit the building, conspiracy advocates insist there is evidence that a missile or a different type of plane smashed into the Pentagon.
    Here PM falsely implies that 9/11 skeptics as a whole accept the theory that no 757 crashed into the Pentagon.

    Big Plane, Small Holes
    CLAIM:
    Two holes were visible in the Pentagon immediately after the attack: a 75-ft.-wide entry hole in the building's exterior wall, and a 16-ft.-wide hole in Ring C, the Pentagon's middle ring. Conspiracy theorists claim both holes are far too small to have been made by a Boeing 757. "How does a plane 125 ft. wide and 155 ft. long fit into a hole which is only 16 ft. across?" asks reopen911.org, a Web site "dedicated to discovering the bottom line truth to what really occurred on September 11, 2001."
    The truth is of even less importance to French author Thierry Meyssan, whose baseless assertions are fodder for even mainstream European and Middle Eastern media. In his book The Big Lie, Meyssan concludes that the Pentagon was struck by a satellite-guided missile--part of an elaborate U.S. military coup. "This attack," he writes, "could only be committed by United States military personnel against other U.S. military personnel."
    FACT: When American Airlines Flight 77 hit the Pentagon's exterior wall, Ring E, it created a hole approximately 75 ft. wide, according to the ASCE Pentagon Building Performance Report. The exterior facade collapsed about 20 minutes after impact, but ASCE based its measurements of the original hole on the number of first-floor support columns that were destroyed or damaged. Computer simulations confirmed the findings.
    Why wasn't the hole as wide as a 757's 124-ft.-10-in. wingspan? A crashing jet doesn't punch a cartoon-like outline of itself into a reinforced concrete building, says ASCE team member Mete Sozen, a professor of structural engineering at Purdue University. In this case, one wing hit the ground; the other was sheared off by the force of the impact with the Pentagon's load-bearing columns, explains Sozen, who specializes in the behavior of concrete buildings. What was left of the plane flowed into the structure in a state closer to a liquid than a solid mass. "If you expected the entire wing to cut into the building," Sozen tells PM, "it didn't happen."
    The tidy hole in Ring C was 12 ft. wide--not 16 ft. ASCE concludes it was made by the jet's landing gear, not by the fuselage.

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  17. Quote Originally Posted by HondaV65 View Post

    That's been debunked - no such defensive canopy existed - and Dick Cheney wouldn't have had the authority to give orders to it if it did.

    LOL
    Dick Cheney took command of NORAD the morning of 9/11 and even had NORAD running drills...the drills were planes going into the WTC.
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  18. Intact Windows
    CLAIM:
    Many Pentagon windows remained in one piece--even those just above the point of impact from the Boeing 757 passenger plane. Pentagonstrike.co.uk, an online animation widely circulated in the United States and Europe, claims that photographs showing "intact windows" directly above the crash site prove "a missile" or "a craft much smaller than a 757" struck the Pentagon.
    FACT: Some windows near the impact area did indeed survive the crash. But that's what the windows were supposed to do--they're blast-resistant.
    "A blast-resistant window must be designed to resist a force significantly higher than a hurricane that's hitting instantaneously," says Ken Hays, executive vice president of Masonry Arts, the Bessemer, Ala., company that designed, manufactured and installed the Pentagon windows. Some were knocked out of the walls by the crash and the outer ring's later collapse. "They were not designed to receive wracking seismic force," Hays notes. "They were designed to take in inward pressure from a blast event, which apparently they did: [Before the collapse] the blinds were still stacked neatly behind the window glass."
    PM misstates the claim usually made about the intact windows, which is that windows in the collision path of parts of the wings and tail remained intact, not just "directly above the crash site".
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  19. Quote Originally Posted by HondaV65 View Post
    Why are you posting this? It proves I'm right and you're wrong.

    Seriously - why would you post that? Alex Jones Troofer Drones have forever insisted there was some kind of defensive fighter canopy over the US and that Dick Cheney - a man who's not in any military chain of command - made that canopy stand down.

    That's been debunked - no such defensive canopy existed - and Dick Cheney wouldn't have had the authority to give orders to it if it did.

    LOL
    again, I wouldnt expect you to believe any of this since you are taking faith in what cheney said. You are taking your evidence mainly from what politicans and government agencies are reporting, AX is posting what eye witnesses, unbiased scientists, and the people who served (firefighters) testimonies. You will never agree with this so just stop arguing and let AX post what he wants. You cant prove he is wrong.
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  20. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    [B]"Melted" Steel
    What? Are you denying that steel loses 50% of it's structural load bearing capacity when it's heated to 1,000 degrees F?

    Also - just because no other buildings have ever collapsed like this (and I'm not really too sure about that claim) ... but just because no other have collapsed under these circumstances - doesn't mean it can never happen in an accident like this.

    What other buildings as large and as tall as the WTC's have ever suffered a disaster like the one they experienced?

    Seriously - these were two of the largest buildings in the entire world - at one point they were the tallest man-made structures man had ever produced. Seriously dude - you can't compare these things to an office fire in a 7 story hotel.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by fightbackhxc View Post
    again, I wouldnt expect you to believe any of this since you are taking faith in what cheney said. .
    Ad hominem attack - and ill informed since I've never listened to a single word Dick Cheney said about this.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by HondaV65 View Post
    What? Are you denying that steel loses 50% of it's structural load bearing capacity when it's heated to 1,000 degrees F?

    Also - just because no other buildings have ever collapsed like this (and I'm not really too sure about that claim) ... but just because no other have collapsed under these circumstances - doesn't mean it can never happen in an accident like this.

    What other buildings as large and as tall as the WTC's have ever suffered a disaster like the one they experienced?

    Seriously - these were two of the largest buildings in the entire world - at one point they were the tallest man-made structures man had ever produced. Seriously dude - you can't compare these things to an office fire in a 7 story hotel.
    http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/anal...are/fires.html
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  23. Quote Originally Posted by HondaV65 View Post
    What? Are you denying that steel loses 50% of it's structural load bearing capacity when it's heated to 1,000 degrees F?

    Also - just because no other buildings have ever collapsed like this (and I'm not really too sure about that claim) ... but just because no other have collapsed under these circumstances - doesn't mean it can never happen in an accident like this.

    What other buildings as large and as tall as the WTC's have ever suffered a disaster like the one they experienced?

    Seriously - these were two of the largest buildings in the entire world - at one point they were the tallest man-made structures man had ever produced. Seriously dude - you can't compare these things to an office fire in a 7 story hotel.
    If WTC started breaking down in sections that would be 1 thing...but 1st the penthouse on top of the building collapes, then the entire building crimped in on itself then falling a free fall speed with no resistance whats so ever perfectly symmetrical in its own footprint. The only possibility of this is taking out all the collumns in multiple floors from a controlled demolition, its scientifically proven already.
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  24. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Intact Windows
    CLAIM:
    Many Pentagon windows remained in one piece--even those just above the point of impact from the Boeing 757 passenger plane. Pentagonstrike.co.uk, an online animation widely circulated in the United States and Europe, claims that photographs showing "intact windows" directly above the crash site prove "a missile" or "a craft much smaller than a 757" struck the Pentagon.
    FACT: Some windows near the impact area did indeed survive the crash. But that's what the windows were supposed to do--they're blast-resistant.
    "A blast-resistant window must be designed to resist a force significantly higher than a hurricane that's hitting instantaneously," says Ken Hays, executive vice president of Masonry Arts, the Bessemer, Ala., company that designed, manufactured and installed the Pentagon windows. Some were knocked out of the walls by the crash and the outer ring's later collapse. "They were not designed to receive wracking seismic force," Hays notes. "They were designed to take in inward pressure from a blast event, which apparently they did: [Before the collapse] the blinds were still stacked neatly behind the window glass."
    PM misstates the claim usually made about the intact windows, which is that windows in the collision path of parts of the wings and tail remained intact, not just "directly above the crash site".
    Who gives a **** about windows? Seriously - are you trying to say that a plane DID NOT crash into the Pentagon? Yes - that's exactly what you're saying - however, pieces of the plane WERE found - and even photographed on the scene moments after the crash.

    But you keep trying with your window theory. LOL

  25. Flight 77 Debris
    CLAIM:
    Conspiracy theorists insist there was no plane wreckage at the Pentagon. "In reality, a Boeing 757 was never found," claims pentagonstrike.co.uk, which asks the question, "What hit the Pentagon on 9/11?"
    FACT: Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"

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  26. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    If WTC started breaking down in sections that would be 1 thing...but 1st the penthouse on top of the building collapes, then the entire building crimped in on itself then falling a free fall speed with no resistance whats so ever perfectly symmetrical in its own footprint. The only possibility of this is taking out all the collumns in multiple floors from a controlled demolition, its scientifically proven already.
    What? The top penthouse collapsed first? I thought you said the towers were brought down by bombs ...

    IN THE BASEMENT!!

    LOL - how then did your bombs have their first impact on the parts of the building that were the farthest away from them!

    LOL

  27. No Stand-Down Order
    CLAIM:
    No fighter jets were scrambled from any of the 28 Air Force bases within close range of the four hijacked flights. "On 11 September Andrews had two squadrons of fighter jets with the job of protecting the skies over Washington D.C.," says the Web site emperors-clothes.com. "They failed to do their job." "There is only one explanation for this," writes Mark R. Elsis of StandDown.net. "Our Air Force was ordered to Stand Down on 9/11."
    FACT: On 9/11 there were only 14 fighter jets on alert in the contiguous 48 states. No computer network or alarm automatically alerted the North American Air Defense Command (NORAD) of missing planes. "They [civilian Air Traffic Control, or ATC] had to pick up the phone and literally dial us," says Maj. Douglas Martin, public affairs officer for NORAD. Boston Center, one of 22 Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regional ATC facilities, called NORAD's Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) three times: at 8:37 am EST to inform NEADS that Flight 11 was hijacked; at 9:21 am to inform the agency, mistakenly, that Flight 11 was headed for Washington (the plane had hit the North Tower 35 minutes earlier); and at 9:41 am to (erroneously) identify Delta Air Lines Flight 1989 from Boston as a possible hijacking. The New York ATC called NEADS at 9:03 am to report that United Flight 175 had been hijacked--the same time the plane slammed into the South Tower. Within minutes of that first call from Boston Center, NEADS scrambled two F-15s from Otis Air Force Base in Falmouth, Mass., and three F-16s from Langley Air National Guard Base in Hampton, Va. None of the fighters got anywhere near the pirated planes.
    The idea that Air Traffic Control had to "pick up the phone and literally dial" NORAD -- a routine procedure in handling unresponsive aircraft -- does not begin to explain the long gaps between ATC being aware of off-course and non-responsive jetliners and NORAD acting. Standard procedure was for ATC to notify NORAD if they were unable to contact such an aircraft within three minutes.

    Here PM's "FACT" is taken directly from the 9/11 Commission Report, which changed the official timeline for at least the third time. Two important omissions here are:

    • The June 1st order which centralized intercept authority in the Secretary of Defense.
    • Multiple war games scheduled for the day of 9/11/01, at least one involving a plane-into-building scenario.
    Why couldn't ATC find the hijacked flights? When the hijackers turned off the planes' transponders, which broadcast identifying signals, ATC had to search 4500 identical radar blips crisscrossing some of the country's busiest air corridors. And NORAD's sophisticated radar? It ringed the continent, looking outward for threats, not inward. "It was like a doughnut," Martin says. "There was no coverage in the middle." Pre-9/11, flights originating in the States were not seen as threats and NORAD wasn't prepared to track them.
    When the jetliners' transponders were switched off, their blips on the ATC screens lost their identifying data, and would stand out against the remaining blips, which were labeled.

    The idea that NORAD had no radar coverage of much of North America comes from that best-selling work of fiction, The 9/11 Commission Report. Evaluate this assertion in light of this description of NORAD's Cheyenne Mountain's Operations Center, as it was on 9/11/01.
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  28. Quote Originally Posted by HondaV65 View Post
    Who gives a **** about windows? Seriously - are you trying to say that a plane DID NOT crash into the Pentagon? Yes - that's exactly what you're saying - however, pieces of the plane WERE found - and even photographed on the scene moments after the crash.

    But you keep trying with your window theory. LOL
    Yes thats what Im saying, no plane actually hit the Pentagon...thats why I posted a top Military of Intelligence official supporting this claim.
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  29. Again - your "stand down" orders are ridiculous.

    I say that with 24 years of military experience - I know what kind of defense this nation has. On 9-11, my command became the "air defense commander" for the state of Hawaii.

    Yeah - and when my CO told me we were the ADC for a STATE IN THE UNION - I told him ... "There's no such thing. That doesn't exist."

    And his reply to me ...

    "It does now - right now it comes into existence"

    So all you troofers who spew this garbage about planes being told to stand-down are full of ****. Seriously - and sadly - this nation had no air defense against internal threats prior to 9-11 - but that is more readily explained by complacency and laziness than it is some kind of huge conspiracy.

  30. Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Yes thats what Im saying, no plane actually hit the Pentagon...thats why I posted a top Military of Intelligence official supporting this claim.
    Please have the Pentagon, one of the most surveillance spots in the world release the tapes...or were they changing all of them at the same time by coincidence just the same way that happened at the Oklahoma city bombing?
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