Serious scientific help needed (hormones involved)

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    Serious scientific help needed (hormones involved)


    I thought this would be the best section of the forum for this but maybe I'll have to send it to the advanced science section as well.

    My wife has a big problem and she's near tears with it at this point.

    Years ago, she started Birth Control and that lead to several years of depression and no libido. As a major side effect, she stopped menstruating entirely. Complete amenorrhea for years. The nurse practitioner gave her a shot to remove the built up tissue but the process did not repeat. She then took a blood test but they only told us that her thyroid is OK.

    Fast forward to a little over a year ago. She's sick of Amenorrhea because she's worried about her fertility and she's making no strength gains in the gym anymore. So we try a Chasteberry regiment and suddenly she starts. Problem is that now she won't stop.

    She has become emotional again, she has started becoming stronger in the gym again, and the bleeding is constant if we do nothing about it. Libido seems to be normal now.

    Different things we've tried have done some things but nothing completely makes her regular.

    Inositol helps with body hair and makes it so that the bleeding only happens in the mid-morning
    Alpha Lipoic Acid seems to help marginally.
    NAC helped at first but has since stopped being effective.
    DIM and I3C seem to make the bleeding worse
    Fish oil seems to have no effect
    Low-dose sesamin seems to have no effect
    5-HTPs effects were all over the place with the pendulum swinging back and forth
    Magnesium does nothing
    High doses of flaxseeds seems to help mood but not bleeding

    We've tried other doctors but all they've told us is that she should be on Birth Control again. However, we CANNOT go through that again. If you even start mentioning Birth Control she starts to get stressed out.

    I've been wondering about what to do next. The only things that come to mind are to try a short burst of D-aspartic acid (although who knows how to time it at this point), or Anabeta Elite (heard this can help make a cycle regular).

    If anyone has any experience or advice, I'm all ears.

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    I'm not terribly well-versed in this stuff, but I've got free time at work to brainstorm and the google machine. Hope you figure it out, man.

    It seems like perhaps progesterone withdrawl? I think that's the goal when "nurse practitioner gave her a shot to remove the built up tissue"...I'm guessing the shot was progesterone, with the goal of withdrawl to induce cycle once it cleared her system.

    My immediate concern is anemia.

    A little searching seems to indicate that Chaseberry has opposite effects at low/high doses. It would be almost poetic if switching the dosage on the same supplement fixed the issue it caused.

    Is she using any NSAIDs?

    Before playing with hormone boosters, replacements, AI's, or whatever, a blood test might be useful.

    Adaptogense seem to be bringing reeling in positive reviews for all sorts of stuff lately. Perhaps one of those might prove useful.

    Something to consider with doc? http://www.aafp.org/afp/2011/1015/p883.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrisL View Post
    I'm not terribly well-versed in this stuff, but I've got free time at work to brainstorm and the google machine. Hope you figure it out, man.

    It seems like perhaps progesterone withdrawl? I think that's the goal when "nurse practitioner gave her a shot to remove the built up tissue"...I'm guessing the shot was progesterone, with the goal of withdrawl to induce cycle once it cleared her system.

    My immediate concern is anemia.

    A little searching seems to indicate that Chaseberry has opposite effects at low/high doses. It would be almost poetic if switching the dosage on the same supplement fixed the issue it caused.

    Is she using any NSAIDs?

    Before playing with hormone boosters, replacements, AI's, or whatever, a blood test might be useful.

    Adaptogense seem to be bringing reeling in positive reviews for all sorts of stuff lately. Perhaps one of those might prove useful.

    Something to consider with doc?
    Thanks for the ideas. I was working on some progesterone theories but it seems tricky to time. Estrogen dominance was a big thing that I was tackling with some of the things we were trying, but they either didn't pan out well enough to continue or they didn't work at all.

    So far she hasn't shown any anemia symptoms. Then again, the thought crossed my mind a long time so she has been on a higher in iron diet with a women's multivitamin that has iron in it as well.

    I was trying to get her to increase the dose of chasteberry (we were only doing 1 - 2 capsules a day). However, the idea of increasing dose scared her and she refused the 3rd capsule. She will not take chasteberry again unless I can prove to her that it will "cure" the ailment. I'm sure that three would have been too much as we were taking Vitamin Shoppe's version with 500 mg total extract per pill (200 standardized extract and 300 plain extract).

    No NSAIDs but she is on a combination blood pressure medicine.

    Adaptogens might be something to consider. I've been reluctant to give her ginseng, schisandra, or rhodiola as she's had zero benefit from them before and I've heard of estrogenic sides with them (might be out of date information though). However, that was before the birth control.

    It could also be considered that she was feeling better (mentally) after taking True Focus from Now Foods. But that was temporary. I think the tyrosine might have had something to do with that.

    I have looked at blood testing before and it seems like that to get the answers will cost around $300. I can't afford that at the moment as we have a big expense coming up and I can't even afford to get more than $50 worth of supplements for myself per every 2 months.

    I don't think any doctor is going to help me unless I can find a really good specialist. So far, we've only gotten "get on birth control" and "lose weight." It's hard because with how her body works, those are not two things we can do at the same time.

    I think I'll give some Siberian Ginseng a try first, but more ideas would be helpful if anyone has them.
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    As far as progesterone is concerned, I believe that's why the doctor wanted her on birth control - specifically, progesterone-only birth control. Withdrawl from progesterone makes the bleeding start, like when taking the week of sugar pills as part of a monthly dose.

    For chasteberry, you'd have to check the actual studies, but I think the dose she was on was actually a high dose, and you'd have to take even less for it to be a low dose. I could be wrong.

    Cheap Bloodwork - How to Get It WITHOUT Insurance
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrisL View Post
    As far as progesterone is concerned, I believe that's why the doctor wanted her on birth control - specifically, progesterone-only birth control. Withdrawl from progesterone makes the bleeding start, like when taking the week of sugar pills as part of a monthly dose.

    For chasteberry, you'd have to check the actual studies, but I think the dose she was on was actually a high dose, and you'd have to take even less for it to be a low dose. I could be wrong.
    Actually the doctors we spoke to only wanted to get her on the combo pill. When we asked about the mini pill, they told us that it wouldn't help and that its non-effectiveness is a risk (we reminded them we're not using it for actual birth control). I inquired with every medical practitioner we spoke to but got shot down every time. This did not help her white coat syndrome as the first practitioner was quite rude about it when we even inquired about the progestin only pill the first time. You can probably understand why we're hesitant to seek anymore professional medical help with this after all we've been through.

    I did a peek on the chasteberry doses and it's hard to tell what a high or low dose is. Studies using certain extracts are about 20 mg a day. Some sites (not studies) report usage of up to almost 2 grams. I think if we try again, we'll aim for around 20 mgs and work our way up from there.

    Thanks for the link. With a coupon the price is down to $150. Still a bit but a lot more reasonable.
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    Man, it seems that more and more, doctors are just the worst. My friend's doctor had to google "shin splints" in front of her because he never heard of it. Hopefully, there's some kind of not-doctor or univerity women's health specialist or something that can help. She wasn't going to a "family" doctor, right? Gynecologist?
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    Not a general practitioner. The first one was a nurse practitioner and the rest were gynecologists. We did inquire with her general practitioner but they just passed the buck on and told us to check with our gynecologist, reproductive specialist, or endocrinologist.

    Really? Shin splints? I thought everyone knew what those are! Even kids in middle school know what shin splints are. Anyone who has done any kind of running would know what a shin splint is.

    The more I deal with medical professionals, the more I lose faith in our healthcare system.
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    Does she suffer with any conditions such as PCOS? Many woman often have systs on their ovaries causing these types of issues and usually doctors put them staight onto the pill instead of actually creating a proper treatment plan. Using natural progestrone cream or troche if you can get a script from a doctor or some natrapaths also have a type of it, helps to create a better pattern for the body helping to keep the periods regular whether or not they have this condition but also drastically helping with moods, pain etc. I personally in the past have had serious problems with doctors and coming off the pill about 4years ago, but have found this was the best treatment (physically and mentally). Instead or as well of fish oil you could also use primrose oil which can help with moods.
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    We have thought about the PCOS testing, however, it wasn't until recently that she was able to get insurance. However, in our last bout of testing we didn't see anything out of the ordinary. I'm sure we'll soon be testing for that once the dust settles on a few things.

    Fish oil has been a staple for a while now and I've added 2 grams of Vitamin C to help with cortisol.

    The progesterone cream did work for us (we've been attempting that for about 2 months now). We're still trying to tweak dose and timing at the moment. So far it has done exactly what you've described. Better moods, pain, etc. We're hoping this will be the answer we've been waiting for. Thanks for the suggestions!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hokutoshura View Post
    We have thought about the PCOS testing, however, it wasn't until recently that she was able to get insurance. However, in our last bout of testing we didn't see anything out of the ordinary. I'm sure we'll soon be testing for that once the dust settles on a few things.

    Fish oil has been a staple for a while now and I've added 2 grams of Vitamin C to help with cortisol.

    The progesterone cream did work for us (we've been attempting that for about 2 months now). We're still trying to tweak dose and timing at the moment. So far it has done exactly what you've described. Better moods, pain, etc. We're hoping this will be the answer we've been waiting for. Thanks for the suggestions!
    Oh good to hear its a little better at least! Progestrone can take a little while to get the full benefits, im testing the dosage myself at the moment after a small break off it, but once you get it right for you its amazing stuff with no noticable side effects and pretty low cost overall.

    Fingers crossed its not PCOS but you can still do things to increase insulin sensitivity as its beneficial for anyone
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    How old is she? My wife is 47 and a couple years ago would bleed all month long. It would stop and start but much more than her typical cycle. I don't remember if they tried birth control or not but ended up having a procedure called an ablasion. She had already had her tubes tied years ago, so no more kids for us. I don't know how the ablasion would affect future pregnancy, but it definitely stopped the bleeding. She is premenopausal already and has gone through a bout of heat flashes a while ago. After the ablasion, she hasn't had a period since. She does have some monthly mood swings around her normal period time, but not bad. Don't know if that's an option for you or not, just thought I would toss it out there.
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    We're in our early 30s. We haven't had any children yet so the process might be a last resort.

    Good to have another option on the table though. Thanks!
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