What is this routine?

[T-Bar]

I know it's not HIT training, but I don't think it's volume either.

Mon.=Back, Bi's, rear delts, hams.

Bent-over rows 3 sets

Hammer strength pull-downs 2 sets

Deads 3 sets

Bent-over raises 1 set

Hammer curls 2 sets

Wed=Chest, Tri's, Front and middle delts.

Incline dumbell Press 3 sets

Close-grip bench 3 sets

Lateral raise 2 sets

Fri= Quads, Calves, Abs.

Leg-press 3 sets

Squats 3 sets

Calf raises 1 set

Weighted sit-ups 2 sets

[maggmaster]

Its just a normal routine, like a newbie routine. Its not bad if you can recover frm it.

[LunaHotel]

Looks like HIT changed to a little more volume. I made a routine like that for myself a few years back after a bout of 3 months on HIT watching my strength increase, but gaining no mass. If you overtrain easily, it's good.

[T-Bar]

I think I'm actually gonna try 1 on 2 off with this. Just to see what happens...

[iron addict]

It's not too bad a routine for many trainees out there. Enough volume for good size increases, yet not too much that it will overtrain many people out there. If all sets are done to failure it will likely wipe you out and overtrain you. I would only train the last set of multiple set excercises to failure, and some people would do well keeping the last rep in them.

Iron Addict

[LunaHotel]

Is it really that bad, Iron Addict?

I mean, are your trainees all 250-lb monsters or is it just me, encountering only atypical trainees that don't overtrain easily at all?

'cause this, in my experience, is a program that should be done to failure and is one where guys don't get easily overtrained on.

I'm a little surprised that you find that people are SO easily overtrained.

EDIT : Xcept for the back day, which I find to be much, will 3 sets of deadlifts...

[T-Bar]

Originally posted by iron addict
It's not too bad a routine for many trainees out there. Enough volume for good size increases, yet not too much that it will overtrain many people out there. If all sets are done to failure it will likely wipe you out and overtrain you. I would only train the last set of multiple set excercises to failure, and some people would do well keeping the last rep in them.

Iron Addict

I only go to failure on the last set of each exercise, the preceding sets are just to build-up to my max weight for 6-8 reps.

[iron addict]

Luna,

I guess your lucky. And you should also understand that when I am directing info to a large unknown audience i will play the odds. And the odds are most people just don't recover that well. And yes, I have quite a few 250-330 lb monsters that rarely do over -2 sets per excercize to failure. One of my best just squatted 475 for 20 reps and is competing in a strongman event in 2 weeks. He tolerates a little more volume than most but the key is 3 sets all done to failure for multiple lifts just isn't needed for most people and will overtrain LOTS of trainees. I don't know what your definition of failure is but 3 sets of leg presses to absolute failure followed by 3 sets of squats for medium to high reps to absolute failure is a surefire key to cns fatigue and a puky trainee.

Iron Addict

[LunaHotel]

LOL puky trainee

Well, 475 for 20 is a workout in itself! That's more than 9000 lbs lifted!

I don't have any guys who do that. Your clientele is very different than mine. I get lots of guys who are 5'10" and 175, and their goal is to be 195 ripped. That's my mainstay clientele. The few guys go for much more than that... don't use a trainer. Juice is expensive and so is a trainer...

[iron addict]

Luna,

our "average" trainees are not all that different. Probably 7 out of 10 people that I work with are 20-40 lbs overwieght and 20-40 lbs undermuscled, and their goal is to lose that damn bodyfat and build some size, and most don't want to be freaky. just big and athletic looking. The rest of my guys, well they want to be freaks and I train quite a few that are. While there are exceptions and some people do handle a fair amount more work than others the 20 lbs overweight and big guys both have the same basic problem:

Overtraining if too much is done.

Losing weight while adding mass isn't easy and I am CERTAIN you would be amazed at how well I pull it off for them. Every trainee I have doing that (lose fat, gain muscle) is successful doing so, and yes for some it is much slower than others, but 90% of these guys make awesome strength gains and to a lessor degree size gains while dropping tons of bodyfat. And while diet is of course the prime factor in the fat loss, keeping the training volume down while doing this is what allows the week to week increases in the gym to occur.

Here is what I do. I put together a routine I beleive is optimal for the trainee. If gains are not IMMEDIATE, meaning significant form week to week RIGHT AWAY, no waiting for it to somehow "happen", I REDUCE their volume. If that doesn't work, I raise the volume significantly. I have NEVER had this fail to get a trainee making AWESOME gains. And yes, I know where you are coming from Joe Average at 175 can handle a fair amount more volume than someone a little more advanced and I usually write more volume into these guys routines. The only reason they can do more quite frankly is they don't generally train that hard. And many just haven't been training long enough to really know how to generate intensity. And in the long run, it really isn't needed. Lack of intensity can be made up by more volume. Bunches of ways to skin a cat.

Iron Addict

[LunaHotel]

Gotcha, Iron Addict. Well thought-out.

I'mma write an article called "The Benefits of Overtraining" and post it in this forum. Not to diss you in any way, you are obviously a first-rate trainer...

I'm hoping the topic will cause a lot of debate and controversy... Otherwise I'll have written it for nothing.

[iron addict]

Yes, it will no doubt cause a stir and I expect you and I will go back and forth quite a bit because I know there are no advantages to TRUE overtraining. If you are talking about "pushing the envelope" as Dogg likes to do, I can partially aggree, but overtraining in its true sense is always a negative.

Iron Addict

[jminis]

Ding Ding.... And in this corner wearing the black trunks from.......LOL can't wait to read your article Luna, and IA can't wait to hear your rebuttles.


IA what kind of volume would you suggest for someone on the sauce. Would you recommend some more sets with one to failure?. I've been lifting for 5 years now and am 6'2" 227 at 9%. And 2 weeks into a bulking cycle. Right now I'm doing about 3 sets each bodypart with the last being to failure. Sets are being done at 2-3second positives and 4 second negatives. Later J

[iron addict]

jminis,

I don't like to nor generally make blanket statements like "if you are on gear" train like XXXXX because that one size fits all, doesn't. But I will say I use three sets with only the last set to failure quite a bit with people I train and it works well in most cases. It is a good format and definately worthy of trying. Your rep cagence is great and one that will serve you well. Most people do their reps too fast because their ego won't let them be seen using lighter weights, but for some reason will let them walk around being small--lol.

If I don't know antything about a trainee my standard advice about gear cycle training is to pick a routine you KNOW you can gain on clean and the gear will aplify the results. Some people can get away with all kinds of crazty assed training while on gear, and others (more) don't get a HUGE difference in recovery abilty but get a bunch more muscle if recovery needs are met while on gear.

I see people all the time that get **** results while on gear because they think they can now do a pro's routine because they are doing a half gram a week test and a little winny or deca. If they only knew.

Iron Addict

[jminis]

Thanks for the response IA. My ego is def in check with my rep speed. I have a lot people look at me and notice I'm a fairly descent size and the weight I'm putting up not matching up. Oh well, to hell with them. I started when I read your first few articles on the subject and I was currently in a rut.

Needless to say I started gaining and seeing results and now that I'm on some special viatmins I threw in a few more sets because I tend to recover a hell of a lot quicker. Thanks for the knowledge, I'm trying to spread it to a few friends but it just goes in one ear and out the other. I guess that's why I'm 40lbs heavier then all of them
Have a good one bro, J