rep range for gaining MASS

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    rep range for gaining MASS


    i was just wondering what rep range you all were going for when trying to gain mass/weight. I've been staying at 5-7 with all my exercises but people seem to think that 8-12 is best. What do you think

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    4-6
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    6-8
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    I was under the impression that anything under six was for strength (ie PLing), 6-12 was for mass and 12 and up was for endurance. Of course these are just guidelines...
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    4-6 on compound lifts and 10-12 for isolations.
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    heavy ass weight= growth

    but i agree with these guidelines, although the 20 repper squat is amazing. for all 3 ebdurance, mass, and strength.
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    So for mass on alternating dumbell curls, 10-12 reps?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Tolerance
    So for mass on alternating dumbell curls, 10-12 reps?
    I usually stay in between 8 and 12 when I'm not doing DC.
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    Quote Originally Posted by meathead1987
    4-6 on compound lifts and 10-12 for isolations.
    This is what I follow

    I think everybody responds differently though
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    i usually get about 5 when doing chest and it seems to be growing nicely but when i do arms i get about 5 or 6 and i don't see much growth... should i up the arm reps
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    Everyone's body is different. To say that 4-6 reps is best for everybody is a very misleading statement.

    Everyone has varying amounts of slow and fast twitch fibers hence everyone needs to use different rep schemes.

    It also depends on your program. Many people use periodization techniques which means that they will use varying rep schemes at different times to target both muscle fiber types.

    Its not an exact science and you need to take the different schemes and find what works best for your body.
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    4-8 for myofibullar hypertrophy, 8-12 for sarcoplasmic hypertrophy.


    Incorporate both for the best 1-2 punch.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    4-8 for myofibullar hypertrophy, 8-12 for sarcoplasmic hypertrophy.


    Incorporate both for the best 1-2 punch.
    Huh....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brfish
    Huh....
    6-10
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    Huh....
    Lol I was thinking the same thing, anyways 4-6 usually does it for me.
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    BOBO knows his ****....so listen to him.....he is correct, switch it up each week....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brfish
    Huh....
    LOL start reading bro
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    I don't know, some people read into things too much. I prefer trial and error myself. Something that works for one won't always work for someone else.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    4-8 for myofibullar hypertrophy, 8-12 for sarcoplasmic hypertrophy.


    Incorporate both for the best 1-2 punch.
    Charles Poliquin backs this up as well. He suggests alternating 'accumulation' phases with 'intensification' phases starting at 3 weeks each and adjusting as required. Typically the loading parameters might look something like this:

    Accumulation:
    Reps: 8-20
    Set/excercise: 3-4
    Rest Intervals: 60-90 sec.
    Excercises/Bodypart: 2-3
    Time Under Tension per set: 40-60 sec.
    Total Sets Per Body Part: 6-8

    Intensification:
    Reps: 5-8
    Sets/excercise: 4-5
    Rest Intervals: 3-4 min.
    Excercises/Body Part: 1-2
    Time Under Tension Per Set: 304-40 sec.
    Total Sets Per Body Part: 8-10
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    I personally like 2-4 for both size and strengh
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    4-8 for myofibullar hypertrophy, 8-12 for sarcoplasmic hypertrophy.


    Incorporate both for the best 1-2 punch.
    would you be so kind as to put this in laymans terms?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    4-8 for myofibullar hypertrophy, 8-12 for sarcoplasmic hypertrophy.


    Incorporate both for the best 1-2 punch.
    I was just doing a 4-6 followed by a 15-20 and it worked well, I few days ago I adjust downward to 12ish for the second set. Only thing I could think of to make it work any better for me. (The 15-20's were just a game, basically...allowed me to see progress every week in reps and weight)
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNDERTAKER
    would you be so kind as to put this in laymans terms?
    4-8 for increasing actual fiber thickness.

    8-12 for increasing nutrient capacity (increased glyocgen storage)
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwyckemynd00
    I was just doing a 4-6 followed by a 15-20 and it worked well, I few days ago I adjust downward to 12ish for the second set. Only thing I could think of to make it work any better for me. (The 15-20's were just a game, basically...allowed me to see progress every week in reps and weight)
    That is exactly what i have been doing and it has been great. i am doing a month of 5's right now on a HST program and finish each with a 15-20 rep for metabolic stress. Will do same thing next week when i do drop sets.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    4-8 for increasing actual fiber thickness.

    8-12 for increasing nutrient capacity (increased glyocgen storage)
    so which one increases strength and which one increases size? or does it not work that way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNDERTAKER
    so which one increases strength and which one increases size? or does it not work that way.
    Lower reps are better for developing overall strength and muscle 'density'. Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is generally better for the overall shape and development of the muscle, but you do tend to gain some strength along with it.

    Just think about it in common sense terms. Most PLers probably don't spend that much time in the 12-15 rep range, and vice versa, if you were about to pose for a BBing show you wouldn't be doing sets with 4 reps backstage.
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    I dont think its the rep amount so much...
    I think its the TUT Of course thats just waht I've been reading...

    I usually go 8-10 reps for size
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bean
    I dont think its the rep amount so much...
    I think its the TUT Of course thats just waht I've been reading...

    I usually go 8-10 reps for size
    Hmmm... I suppose to an extent that is true, but what would happen with super slow reps.

    Say normally, you take 20secs for a 5 rep set and 40secs for a 10 rep set

    What would happen if you did a super slow set of 5 that took 40secs. What would that fall into?
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    10-20 works best for me. I go higher often. For legs skys the limit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by meathead1987
    Hmmm... I suppose to an extent that is true, but what would happen with super slow reps.

    Say normally, you take 20secs for a 5 rep set and 40secs for a 10 rep set

    What would happen if you did a super slow set of 5 that took 40secs. What would that fall into?
    I don't think it has much to do with the reps but rather the time in which the muscle is under continuous stress (concentric and eccentric).
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    Quote Originally Posted by houseman
    I don't think it has much to do with the reps but rather the time in which the muscle is under continuous stress (concentric and eccentric).
    So your suggesting TUT is best?
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNDERTAKER
    So your suggesting TUT is best?
    I've always been fond of it and as I get older, my joints seem to be much happy than continually grinding out heavier and heavier weights in an effort to increase muscle mass.

    I know Bobo is quite the fan of TUT training as well.

    Looking forward to starting his program soon and seeing how he does things.
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    This was taken from another board (XtremeMass) which I thought read well:

    Most strength training programs are based on only one thing: reps. How often have you heard "ya gotta do 1 to 5 reps for strength and 8 to 12 reps for size" and other such pearls of wisdom from Michelin Man Joe, the self-appointed expert at your gym? If you’re anything like me, you’ve heard it a bazillion times!

    The problem I’ve always had with this type of thinking is that the way you complete the reps is just as important as the number of reps! Doing ten reps at a very fast tempo will have a much different training effect than doing ten reps using a slow, controlled rhythm. I’ve seen a lot of people training mostly in the 8 to 12 reps range who didn't gain an ounce of muscle tissue in three years! The problem was, their sets of 8 to 12 reps lasted about the length of their average sexual experience: five or ten seconds!

    Many of these problems were solved when the concept of Time Under Tension (TUT) came into play. TUT quickly became a buzzword in the strength training kingdom. Along with tempo, TUT improved the quality of the training process, at least as far as hypertrophy (size) training was concerned.

    These concepts helped gym enthusiasts around the world stimulate more muscle growth simply because they were now moving away from the 5 to 10 second sets onto more productive hypertrophy protocols. It also gave the average trainee more choices. As long as each set would last 40 to 70 seconds, you'd stimulate a lot of hypertrophy gains.

    However, TUT itself had some problems. For one thing, it's a system (if you can call it that) that's highly unpractical for most athletes, mostly because it revolves around slow, controlled reps. These are great for hypertrophy, but not so great when power is concerned. Athletes need to train fast at least 30 to 40% of the time to gain the most from their training.

    TUT and tempo training are also not very well suited for maximum strength lifting. Who in his right frame of mind would use tempo (counting rep speed) when attempting near-maximal and maximal weights? Not only is it unproductive to do so, it's dangerous!

    Furthermore, as the weight gets heavy, it becomes harder and harder to maintain a certain lifting speed. At some point you just push against the damn thing hoping it'll rise up! Tempo is probably the last thing on your mind at this point!

    This is part of the reason why TUT and tempo training have fallen out of favour among strength athletes around the world. However, I don't think we should throw out the baby with the bath water! There's a form of TUT training that's highly effective and applicable for athletes: timed sets.


    What Are Timed Sets?

    Timed sets are a form of TUT training without the tempo variable. The way it works is by selecting a certain timeframe which suits your needs and then doing as many reps as possible within that timeframe.

    For example, if you're a hockey player, your shifts will last 30 to 45 seconds, so this is a very good timeframe to use. You'd simply try to complete as many reps as possible in 30 to 45 seconds. This allows you to work simultaneously on the specific energy system used in your sport while also targeting power.

    Another benefit of this method is the development of functional hypertrophy over non-functional hypertrophy without having to resort to maximal weights. Some athletes indeed need more muscle mass; the problem is when they use classic bodybuilding training to achieve that goal, the mass they gain isn't entirely functional and there's little, if any, neural improvement.

    A second alternative is to have the athlete complete a large number of heavy sets (80 to 95% of one rep max) with few reps. This is certainly more effective for an athlete since the mass gained will tend to be more functional and there'll be a significant neural improvement. However, this method can be potentially dangerous, especially if used by athletes without a proper base in strength training. Most of the time, athletes severely lacking in muscle mass won't do very well on this method of training.

    In short, timed sets offer the best of both worlds! They allow you to stimulate muscle hypertrophy by using relatively long sets (40 to 70 seconds) and light loads, but doing as many lightning fast reps as possible (still making sure to respect proper form, of course). With this form of training you can significantly increase muscle mass while heavily involving the nervous system and improving the capacity to move quickly. Forget supersets; there are Superman sets! As a general form of athletic training, who could ask for more?

    Obviously, timed sets are best suited to work on power, power-endurance, muscle-endurance, and functional hypertrophy. Their only weakness is when it comes to limit-strength development, so heavy lifting shouldn't be completely dropped. Both methods could easily be combined into a program to ensure complete development of the motor capacities.


    Training Parameters

    The beauty of timed sets is they allow for a lot of variation: the duration of each set can be modified to better develop a certain capacity. The only thing to remember is that each rep during the chosen timeframe should be explosive, or at least very fast. This means you're not going anywhere near failure.

    Here's a short list of possible applications for this method and their general impact on your physical capacities:

    1) Very Short Sets

    Duration: 5-10 seconds

    Load: 50-60%

    Number of sets: 8-12

    Maximal power development: very high

    Hypertrophy development: low

    Muscle and power endurance development: low


    2) Short Sets

    Duration: 10-20 seconds

    Load: 40-50%

    Number of sets: 6-10

    Maximal power development: very high

    Hypertrophy development: moderate

    Muscle and power endurance development: low


    3) Moderate Sets

    Duration: 20-40 seconds

    Load: 30-40%

    Number of sets: 4-8

    Maximal power development: high

    Hypertrophy development: high

    Muscle and power endurance development: moderate


    4) Long Sets

    Duration: 40-60 seconds

    Load: 20-30%

    Number of sets: 3-6

    Maximal power development: moderate

    Hypertrophy development: high

    Muscle and power endurance development: high


    5) Very Long Sets

    Duration: 60-90 seconds

    Load: 10-20%

    Number of sets: 2-3

    Maximal power development: low

    Hypertrophy development: low

    Muscle and power endurance development: high


    Now the trick is to select the method(s) best suited to your sport. The info below should help you get started:

    XXX = extremely effective method

    XX = very effective method

    X = effective method

    If the duration of time isn't listed, the method isn't very effective for that sport.


    Football

    Very short sets: XXX

    Short sets: XX

    Moderate sets: X


    Hockey

    Long sets: XXX

    Moderate sets: XX

    Very long sets: X


    Baseball

    Very short sets: XXX


    Soccer

    Very long sets: XXX

    Long sets: X


    100-200m

    Short sets: XXX

    Very short sets: XX

    Moderate sets: X


    400-800m

    Long sets: XXX

    Moderate sets: XX

    Very long sets: XX


    Martial Arts

    Very short sets: XXX


    Throws

    Very short sets: XXX


    Bodybuilding

    Moderate sets: XXX

    Long sets: XX


    Progression

    Much like Coach Staley’s EDT, your goal is to increase the number of reps you can complete within the set timeframe.

    Once you've added a significant number of reps to each set, you can increase the load. Be patient; the objective is to do the reps faster. Progress in load only if you don’t have to decrease speed too much. The ideal number of reps should be:

    • Very short and short sets: 1.5 reps per second

    • Moderate sets: 1 to 1.25 rep(s) per second

    • Long and very long sets: 0.75 to 1 rep per second

    If you can reach these threshold values, you can increase the load.


    Timed sets have a lot to offer athletes and bodybuilders. They'll allow you to develop physical capacities directly applicable to your sport while being gentle on your body (which can be important to athletes involved in contact sports).

    Also, this method can be used year round without risking overtraining. It's an interesting tool to add to your toolbox, and if power is important to you, you should definitely use it in your arsenal!
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    Quote Originally Posted by houseman
    I don't think it has much to do with the reps but rather the time in which the muscle is under continuous stress (concentric and eccentric).
    I agree to this 100% - I see a lot of people totally disregarding the eccentric portion of the lift bouncing the

    weight- letting gravity and there sternum do the work for them.

    The eccentric portion provides a lot of strength and size gains (your also 30% stronger than during the concentric portion)

    TUT!
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    King TUT!
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    Bottom line is that there are a lot of factors that go into the big picture. TUT, reps, total sets, rest between sets (often ignored), intensity, etc.
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    Rest between sets


    I'm often surprised how little attention people give this factor. It can make a big difference in the type of work you do.

    I see guys all the time doing hypertrophy work in the gym, then they see their buddy and stop to talk for 5 minutes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DieTrying
    I'm often surprised how little attention people give this factor. It can make a big difference in the type of work you do.

    I see guys all the time doing hypertrophy work in the gym, then they see their buddy and stop to talk for 5 minutes.
    Yup
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    I think everyone knows what I'm going to say at this point

    more than 3 reps is women's work!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DieTrying
    I'm often surprised how little attention people give this factor. It can make a big difference in the type of work you do.

    I see guys all the time doing hypertrophy work in the gym, then they see their buddy and stop to talk for 5 minutes.
    People who don't rest enough between sets are going to stay weak forever Sufficient rest is key to strength gains. If you're just out there pumping in your muscle shirt though, and you want to get home and watch that 70s show reruns, I suppose short rest periods would be the way to go.
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