Does OVER training exist???
- 04-19-2013, 02:11 PM
- 04-19-2013, 02:14 PM
yes but just like the word "hardgainer," its thrown around way too much
it takes a combination of training too much and not eating enough to actually make it happen. and theres a mental aspect to it as well
04-19-2013, 02:35 PM
Sure does. And in my opinion 99% of people that say they have experienced did not. They were under recovered not over trained.
you can call me "ozzie" for short.
04-19-2013, 06:05 PM
It may be more a poor balance of volume, intensity, frequency and rest/recovery at a given time.
I also agree with asooneyeonig being under recovered or not in a positive gain state.
04-19-2013, 06:48 PM
04-19-2013, 07:36 PM
It has so much more to do with systemic inflammation and the immune system, the neuroendocrine response, and CNS neurotransmittors than just under eating/supplementing.
There is a wealth of information on pubmed.gov regarding over training causes, autoregulation, and treatments. Just search the term "overtraining syndrome"
Jason Cholewa, Ph.D., CSCS
04-20-2013, 11:00 AM
04-20-2013, 12:03 PM
I don't think it does. When I look around these days it seems like all the young guys are anemic looking stick figures who've never done a single physically taxing thing in their entire lives. Of course they're going to have a strong aversion to anything requiring physical effort. You can't train "in moderation". If you don't put out a maximal effort you'll get 0 results.
04-20-2013, 12:10 PM
04-21-2013, 02:50 PM
04-21-2013, 03:15 PM
Maybe over training is under eating and sleeping
04-21-2013, 03:18 PM
04-21-2013, 06:35 PM
To your point, the nature of the physical work done in construction, iron, mining, and most other manual labor jobs is NOT placing a high degree of strain on the CNS. This type of work is mostly metabolic, and thus the strain is on energy production and muscular recovery...very similar to your typical bodybuilding programs where reps never get below 6 and the intensity is never over 85-90% of the 1RM load. So, to your credit, most people do not and probably will not ever truly experience the over training syndrome.
However, if you want to see if it exists, and experience it, I will gladly design you a training program to achieve that, and despite your best attempts to sleep 10 hours a night, consume 5000 calories of quality foods, you will experience central fatigue, and you will feel like ass.
Edit: forgot to put the "not" in above.
04-21-2013, 06:40 PM
>SNS-Glycophase<Serious Nutrition Solutions Rep
04-21-2013, 11:25 PM
I do agree with you that over training exists, however I also agree that most people will never hit that particular roadblock. I think the way it's generally bandied about is BS. I do heavy lifting regularly btw, in the 3-5 rep range. I bench nearly 300 lb and I'm 46 and weigh less than 200 lb, I also squat & deadlift over 400, and I never did either before about 3 years ago, so I'm not just blowing smoke, I do have first hand experience with working in the 85-90% range. I don't think I've ever experienced over training. I've limped out of the gym many days but I've continued to pull ahead regardless. I couldn't always bench 300 or squat 400, it took a lot of misery to get there, but obviously I've yet to hit that point of diminishing returns. Then again I'm no elite athlete, just a determined gym rat.
04-21-2013, 11:30 PM
[QUOTE=Celorza;3958762]I don't argue anymore with people who have nothing to do but worrying instead of reading. I was gonna simply state some of the points he mentioned, but he had already done it . Simply if you don't believe it exists, why even ask in the forums if you are not gonna allow yourself to stand corrected? Read up more on it yourself, and if you still don't believe in it's existence do as you very well please. Easy as that buddy ! Just don't try to bash away other opinions since YOU did ask for them...question all you want, but be prepared to either ignore everything said (you fit that profile) or learn and stand corrected. Nothing wrong with either.[/QUOTED
I didn't ask for anyone's opinion, I offered mine. Are you paying attention at all or are you just confused?
04-22-2013, 09:11 AM
Now, I think rather than arguing overtraining, we should perhaps start up a conversation regarding autoregulation for non-elite athletes. Basically, how can we use biofeedback (such as HRV, grip strength, groin squeeze strength, body temp, etc.) to better "listen" to our bodies. He/she who autoregulates the best is often the most successful at training.
Jason Cholewa, Ph.D., CSCS
04-22-2013, 12:07 PM
Okay so the answer to the second part of the question I had was as long as I'm eating good quality meals and get restful sleep I will be able to kick it up and work my lacking body parts more in a week?
Or will this counter act protein synthesis?
04-22-2013, 12:08 PM
uuuuh.... i squat 3x week on madcows 5x5. i even do it while weight loss is my goal. it takes a lot more than that to "over train"
04-22-2013, 12:54 PM
04-22-2013, 02:25 PM
If you could, elaborate on the grip thing and or irridation (is it called?) If you have any links or extra reads, could you point me towards them?
Some people may be surprised to know, that when the grip gives/breaks or loosens in the deadlift, your form almost crashes as well.
04-22-2013, 02:42 PM
As for grip strength, its mostly a measure of neurological function, similar to a vertical jump. I don't have any lit off hand, mostly just going off what I've learned in class or from talking to the UK Football sport scientist...but I can get some and post it up in the coming weeks.
04-23-2013, 10:23 AM
I dont know if anyone said this, but over reaching is when you basically over train but get enough calories. For over training to be over training in the sense where it causes a negative effect on your body and mind, it has to be done on a regular basis for a longer amount of time.
Over reaching example- very intense training 3-5 days a week for a week or two with a good diet. Could even be 3 or 4 weeks if diet is good.
Over training example with a good diet- very intense training 6-7 days a week for a month+. Signs would be constant fatigue and injury. Ovbiously any training of something thats injured is over training that area.
04-23-2013, 10:31 AM
Stop being baby's and take a week or 2 off the gym completely and give your cns some rest! You'll thank me for it.
I wont get into the joint issues / hormone issues. Those should be commen sense.but....
Who says you can't workout legs back or arms 2 or 3x a week. Lets take me for example....I work ABS 2x a week. My friend works them 4x a week. He can still grow at 4x but I can't. I've tried it and that's what you need to do if it's your goal to do legs 2x a week or w/e . I personally do deads (not stiff legged) on shoulder day and more legs on leg day and I'm growing like a mofo
Online community manager/lead rep of Chaos and Pain,LLC and Fundamental Nutrition.Check us out!chaosandpain.com fnsupps.com Follow me on instagram:@pyrobatt
04-23-2013, 10:41 AM
I know Jason is right and I agree that it does exist; that said, I'll echo the sentiment about 95% of trainees not ever experiencing it.
From MY EXPERIENCE, what people cite as overtraining are simply poor choices outside of the gym leading to suboptimal or even downright bad recovery. Diet being the #1 culprit.
Don't worry, man, someday I'ma be nobody too.
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