Begginer Question

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    Begginer Question


    I was wondering if training strenght and hypertrophy would be a problem.

    I was thinking streght training for bench, squat and deadlift 5x5 each, 3 times a week. but i would still do other exercises for hepertrophy, like leg extensions, incline bench..... etc...


    I am new to this and i looked in a few places and there seems to be no consensus on that matter

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    or look up layne nortons PHAT routine
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    Thanks alot sean! Have you tried that routine? What i didnt saw there was too much ams work or calves. Can I focus on those in a 5th training day?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJcarter
    Thanks alot sean! Have you tried that routine? What i didnt saw there was too much ams work or calves. Can I focus on those in a 5th training day?
    If you're a beginner your arms will grow from compound movements such as bench press and pullups. Both routines will work for your goals, IMO PHAT is more for an intermediate trainee due to the workload. Due the 5/3/1 and eat like a cow and you will make great gains.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick

    If you're a beginner your arms will grow from compound movements such as bench press and pullups. Both routines will work for your goals, IMO PHAT is more for an intermediate trainee due to the workload. Due the 5/3/1 and eat like a cow and you will make great gains.
    he's right. try 5/3/1, and follow the program how its written, you never need a day just for arms, it's a tiny muscle group
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    Well I Don't know if i qualify as a begginner or intermediate lifter, I've been lifting for an year now, but for like 6 months i was dropping weight, i made a thread asking for advice some months ago with some pic
    I made some gains, but i really want to lift heavier. I can only bench 30kg/66 Ib 8 reps after an year, even when cutting, seems to me as pretty low.....

    Thanks for the replys, much appreciated
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJcarter
    Well I Don't know if i qualify as a begginner or intermediate lifter, I've been lifting for an year now, but for like 6 months i was dropping weight, i made a thread asking for advice some months ago with some pic
    I made some gains, but i really want to lift heavier. I can only bench 30kg/66 Ib 8 reps after an year, even when cutting, seems to me as pretty low.....

    Thanks for the replys, much appreciated
    That would make you a beginner. 5/3/1 or starting strength will be your best bet.
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    not a good idea op. the biggest differences between strength and hypertrophy training are that strength usually hits each muscle 2-3 times a week, hypertrophy only once. and strength has ridiculous rest periods to fully recover atp, hypertrophy has very short rest periods <1minute

    theyre very different training styles, and you should just stick to one at a time. then switch between every month or two
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJcarter View Post
    Well I Don't know if i qualify as a begginner or intermediate lifter, I've been lifting for an year now, but for like 6 months i was dropping weight, i made a thread asking for advice some months ago with some pic
    I made some gains, but i really want to lift heavier. I can only bench 30kg/66 Ib 8 reps after an year, even when cutting, seems to me as pretty low.....

    Thanks for the replys, much appreciated
    Were you dropping weight intentionally? Take a look at your diet because your just spinning your wheels if its not where it needs to be to grow.

    As far as programs go, my personal preference has been to never follow anything strictly to how its written. My philosophy is how can anything anyone else writes apply directly to me, or anyone for that matter. There are so many different variables that need to be taken into consideration, and fact is no one can take them all into consideration except you. Granted, I do have an education on the matter its still possible for you to grasp the simpler concepts and approaches needed to succeed without blindly following someone else's template.

    Take the information in the programs for what its worth and experiment with some different training principals and approaches. Look at your results then ask yourself, are they favorable or not? Build on everything from there as your knowledge grows so will your body and understanding of what is happening and why. The same principal can be applied to your diet. It goes back to the simple concept, give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats for a life time. Guaranteed you follow 5/3/1 make some decent gains but end up plateauing soon after and come back and say, "ok what now."

    Now I'm not saying just throw a bunch of sh1t together and hope it works, read and understand the concepts and the effect they have on your physiology. Then apply as you see suited from there. While a lot of the templates out there are great and will yield results, they are so often followed blindly with little to knowledge to why the individual is doing what he or she is doing in the first place. Bottom line is understand what you are doing, should you choose to follow a program or experiment with concepts on your own, and why otherwise your on a road to nowhere. You can incorporate sarcoplasmic hypertrophy targeted exercise right along side strength targeted exercise, you just need to have clearly defined goals and a method/understanding to why you are doing what you are doing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYiron

    Were you dropping weight intentionally? Take a look at your diet because your just spinning your wheels if its not where it needs to be to grow.

    As far as programs go, my personal preference has been to never follow anything strictly to how its written. My philosophy is how can anything anyone else writes apply directly to me, or anyone for that matter. There are so many different variables that need to be taken into consideration, and fact is no one can take them all into consideration except you. Granted, I do have an education on the matter its still possible for you to grasp the simpler concepts and approaches needed to succeed without blindly following someone else's template.

    Take the information in the programs for what its worth and experiment with some different training principals and approaches. Look at your results then ask yourself, are they favorable or not? Build on everything from there as your knowledge grows so will your body and understanding of what is happening and why. The same principal can be applied to your diet. It goes back to the simple concept, give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats for a life time. Guaranteed you follow 5/3/1 make some decent gains but end up plateauing soon after and come back and say, "ok what now."

    Now I'm not saying just throw a bunch of sh1t together and hope it works, read and understand the concepts and the effect they have on your physiology. Then apply as you see suited from there. While a lot of the templates out there are great and will yield results, they are so often followed blindly with little to knowledge to why the individual is doing what he or she is doing in the first place. Bottom line is understand what you are doing, should you choose to follow a program or experiment with concepts on your own, and why otherwise your on a road to nowhere. You can incorporate sarcoplasmic hypertrophy targeted exercise right along side strength targeted exercise, you just need to have clearly defined goals and a method/understanding to why you are doing what you are doing.
    I was loosing weight on porpuse.
    Thanks alot for the replys. They have been really helpfull. I will try the 5/3/1 and see how it goes in the end
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYiron View Post
    Guaranteed you follow 5/3/1 make some decent gains but end up plateauing soon after and come back and say, "ok what now."
    have you read the book? its easy to follow 5/3/1 for years and see continual gains, if you follow the program. most people i have talked to that try it just google some quick articles but never read the book and so are not doing it correctly and therefore do not get the gains. i workout with a guy that has been on it for about 15 months and has been seeing gains every month in strength. hasnt had an issue yet at 49 years old.

    the key is really deloads and resetting. most people dont reset or know how. and some dont do the deloads then cant figure out why they cant gain. well, you dont follow the program you dont get programmed results.

    the nice thing about 5/3/1 is the accessory work is how you specialize the program and IMO another place people can fail. they just plain dont know how to chose the right accessory work. they wanna do what they are good at not work on weak links. that is not the programs fault that is the fault of the person not programming properly.

    now if you can put things together and it work, awesome! even better. but who can really do that? and do that without spending years following programs that have been proven to work. you will start to see patterns on reps, sets, intensity, frequency, etc. without that experience and without the education putting together a program is hard enough even for professionals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJcarter

    I was loosing weight on porpuse.
    Thanks alot for the replys. They have been really helpfull. I will try the 5/3/1 and see how it goes in the end
    Good luck! Keep on hammering away and the size/strength will come.
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    Quote Originally Posted by asooneyeonig

    have you read the book? its easy to follow 5/3/1 for years and see continual gains, if you follow the program. most people i have talked to that try it just google some quick articles but never read the book and so are not doing it correctly and therefore do not get the gains. i workout with a guy that has been on it for about 15 months and has been seeing gains every month in strength. hasnt had an issue yet at 49 years old.

    the key is really deloads and resetting. most people dont reset or know how. and some dont do the deloads then cant figure out why they cant gain. well, you dont follow the program you dont get programmed results.

    the nice thing about 5/3/1 is the accessory work is how you specialize the program and IMO another place people can fail. they just plain dont know how to chose the right accessory work. they wanna do what they are good at not work on weak links. that is not the programs fault that is the fault of the person not programming properly.

    now if you can put things together and it work, awesome! even better. but who can really do that? and do that without spending years following programs that have been proven to work. you will start to see patterns on reps, sets, intensity, frequency, etc. without that experience and without the education putting together a program is hard enough even for professionals.
    No I have never read it, I have never really been one to follow anyone else's templates. I will probably read it eventually though to see what all the fuss is about. Even when I have (PHAT) I used it as more of a skeleton and worked in my own details/methodologies, that I know work for me.

    So you agree with what I am saying, as far as the majority blindly following concepts that they have not made an attempt to understand? This lack of knowledge and understanding exercised by the majority is the cause for the mentioned plateau/failure and the essence behind my statement that you quoted.
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    If you are trying to get stronger dont focus on form the last couple sets. Get the weight up and down the next time a little more form on the higher weight and see if you can go up again. Push yourself harder than whats comfortable. Have a spotter if coarse, if you aren't struggling (allot) then you aren't trying hard enough!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freerage
    If you are trying to get stronger dont focus on form the last couple sets. Get the weight up and down the next time a little more form on the higher weight and see if you can go up again.
    Could not disagree with this more. For the big compound movements, correct form needs to be used for every rep, every set. The goal should be to perfect form on the lighter weighs, so when they DO get heavier, the foundation is already there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by napalm

    Could not disagree with this more. For the big compound movements, correct form needs to be used for every rep, every set. The goal should be to perfect form on the lighter weighs, so when they DO get heavier, the foundation is already there.
    This
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    Right but to "cheat" on the last couple reps is acceptable. Perfect form is of coarse very important, but if you are looking for a way past a plateau, that can help. I'm not saying to up the weight to the point where you are gonna hurt yourself or be completely sloppy. Just past your comfort zone. This is just my way. Like said before nobody is the same.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freerage
    Right but to "cheat" on the last couple reps is acceptable. Perfect form is of coarse very important, but if you are looking for a way past a plateau, that can help. I'm not saying to up the weight to the point where you are gonna hurt yourself or be completely sloppy. Just past your comfort zone. This is just my way. Like said before nobody is the same.
    This isn't something a beginner should be trying. A beginner needs to focus in form, not weight.

    Also, the big movements don't lend themselves to 'cheating.' using the squat as an example, the only way to cheat is to saw it off high, not a likely way to help get through a plateau, or get the desired work out of the movement.

    If one insists on cheating, keep it to the smaller movements, you're not as likely to get hurt that way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freerage View Post
    Right but to "cheat" on the last couple reps is acceptable. Perfect form is of coarse very important, but if you are looking for a way past a plateau, that can help. I'm not saying to up the weight to the point where you are gonna hurt yourself or be completely sloppy. Just past your comfort zone. This is just my way. Like said before nobody is the same.
    Maybe on isolation of assistance lifts, but this is begging for an injury on any of the major lifts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freerage View Post
    If you are trying to get stronger dont focus on form the last couple sets. Get the weight up and down the next time a little more form on the higher weight and see if you can go up again. Push yourself harder than whats comfortable. Have a spotter if coarse, if you aren't struggling (allot) then you aren't trying hard enough!
    Not only asking for injury, but ingraining poor motor programming - escpecially in someone who has limited experience performing a movement.

    It goes along with the saying perfect practice makes perfect.

    Br
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    You guys are right. That is for more experienced lifters. And yes some exercises it would have a negative effect. No argument with that. An injury is the most annoying thing possible when lifting. Be careful, stay classy!
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