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Severe Kink, Strain, or worse?

  1.  09-15-2012  05:20 PM
    Registered User BMStricklin's Avatar
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    Question Severe Kink, Strain, or worse?


    Ok guys, before I explain whats going on, I want you to know I currently unemployed from a bankrupt company and lost my health insurance 15 days ago. SO, I cannot afford to go to the doctor unless it is something serious.

    The issue started yesterday morning when waking up. It felt like a kink in my upper back/neck from sleeping wrong. I had worked out the night before on Legs and some tricep work which included close grip bench(light weight). I brushed it off as a kink and went through my day as normal. I decided later afternoon that I was just going to go to the gym and work light and see how I felt. Go figure it was my shoulder/trap day. Routine was:
    Shoulder press - 4 sets
    Cable leaning lat raises - 3 sets
    Cable front raises - 3 sets
    Cable rear delt flyes - 3 sets
    Cable face pulls - 3 sets
    Smith machine upright rows - 3 sets
    Smith machine shrugs - 3 sets

    None of these moves are new to my routine and have never had any issues before. I started out with like 40%1RM just to get a pump going. It felt like the "kink" loosened up, so I proceeded with my workout and went my normal weight. It felt good and I even jumped on the Arc Trainer for some cardio afterwards. Felt ok the rest of the evening before bed when I seemed to tighten up. I took some Tylenol and went to bed. Oh boy, did I not see this coming. I am normally a stomach sleeper with my arms under my pillow. NO WAY that was going to happen as the most comfortable way to lay was flat on my back. I was in and out of sleep. Woke up this morning with what was 2-3x worse than that kink yesterday. I have that upper back tightness that hurts when you move certain ways. Tilting my head can make it hurt. The main "pain" or tightness is actually right above my left shoulder blade. Even rolling my right shoulder forward can make that sore spot hurt. The area is not tender to the touch. As far as movement, I can(under no weight) perform a front raise without any extra pain. I can do a lateral raise up to about to about 85% of parallel before extra pain appears. I can rotate the arm 360 degrees with only having some slight pain around the 12 o clock region.

    I am not looking to jump right back into workouts, more of just trying to see if anyone else has had something like this. I know the number one response might be go see a doctor, but that is a last resort right now. I have no issues with doctors but just cannot afford the probable numerous hundred dollar bill that is going to go along with it. Any help will be appreciated.

    EDIT: Want to add that I have recently been having some slight spasms in my chest and some in my left arm.. slight spasms but spasms none the less..



  2.  10-16-2012  09:33 PM
    Registered User louiefci's Avatar
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    looks like we have the same exact problem!!!!! about 2 weeks ago, i got a slight pain in my upper back under my left shoulder blade, i thought it was because of all the sitting i do at work(office job)...so i didnt really pay attention to it. days went by and the pain was still there, i asked my girlfriend to give me a massage and she said she felt a slight inflation & a bunch of tiny knots where i felt the pain..i thought it was just a pulled muscle so i totally ignored it, big mistake! i ended up doing 2 crossfit routines during the weekend which definitely sparked up the pain, and my chest/triceps day just topped it off..i woke up this morning with a sharp pain between my shoulder blades, and it hurts alot more if i slouch down or bend forward. i really dont know where the pain is coming from, im guessing it has something to do with my spin, luckily my girlfriends mom knows a doctor that could help me out, ill keep you updated man, good luck with everything..hopefully everything will workout for both of us!!!

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  3.  10-18-2012  09:33 AM
    Registered User BMStricklin's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by louiefci View Post
    looks like we have the same exact problem!!!!! about 2 weeks ago, i got a slight pain in my upper back under my left shoulder blade, i thought it was because of all the sitting i do at work(office job)...so i didnt really pay attention to it. days went by and the pain was still there, i asked my girlfriend to give me a massage and she said she felt a slight inflation & a bunch of tiny knots where i felt the pain..i thought it was just a pulled muscle so i totally ignored it, big mistake! i ended up doing 2 crossfit routines during the weekend which definitely sparked up the pain, and my chest/triceps day just topped it off..i woke up this morning with a sharp pain between my shoulder blades, and it hurts alot more if i slouch down or bend forward. i really dont know where the pain is coming from, im guessing it has something to do with my spin, luckily my girlfriends mom knows a doctor that could help me out, ill keep you updated man, good luck with everything..hopefully everything will workout for both of us!!!

    Good luck with that man. It has definitely been a killer for me. I was On Cycle at the time and had to cut it short and go to PCT. I have lost all gains from the cycle, plus some. Symptoms have changed though. Back is clear of pain and tightness.. The issue now resides around the Rear Delt. I have 360 movement without pain, but I cannot perform press exercises under load. From what I have read, I more than likely have a Tear of the Supraspinatus in the Rotator Cuff. Tingling/Pain/Soreness goes from the back and top of the delt all the way down the outside of my arm to my wrist. Most of the "soreness" resides in my forearm, but I have a HUGE lack of strength in my Tricep. My newly health insurance starts at the end of the month, so I will finally get to find out what exactly I am diagnosed with.. Keep me updated with what you find out though.

  4.  10-20-2012  04:26 PM
    Registered User ZiR RED's Avatar
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    Sounds like a tweak to one of the cervical extensors, possibly a tweak and some nerve impingement.

    Rest it. DO NOT STRETCH IT. You will only irritate the muscle and cause it to spasm further.

    Some trigger point release will help. Get your significant other to apply pressure for 45 sec on the muscle. Don't rub it hard, but just apply pressure where ever the pain is the greatest, then move to another area, and repeat. This will hopefully get the muscle to release a little.

    Its happened to me before, usually takes about 3-4 weeks to clear up fully.

  5.  10-21-2012  09:20 AM
    Registered User BMStricklin's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    Sounds like a tweak to one of the cervical extensors, possibly a tweak and some nerve impingement.

    Rest it. DO NOT STRETCH IT. You will only irritate the muscle and cause it to spasm further.

    Some trigger point release will help. Get your significant other to apply pressure for 45 sec on the muscle. Don't rub it hard, but just apply pressure where ever the pain is the greatest, then move to another area, and repeat. This will hopefully get the muscle to release a little.

    Its happened to me before, usually takes about 3-4 weeks to clear up fully.
    Thanks, I will give it a try.. I hate NOT lifting, makes me feel like I am dying.. lol
    I try to atleast do Lateral raises and Front raises and Bicep Isolators.. I do not have any pain or soreness after doing those.. As far as Back exercises, I have been trying not to do them because I find myself using my right side more to assist the left.. I tried to squat with light weight..(135lbs) and it was no happening .. the pressure from the bar was killer, but this was about 3 weeks ago and I haven't tried since ..

  6.  10-21-2012  06:00 PM
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    I get this occasionally, but have learnt to recognise it, so I dont work out if it get it these days. Sleep on your back as you mentioned with a heat pack under the sore area all night. This will help the muscles relax. I also take anti inflammatory tablets. After a few days go get a massage. I had it to the point it hurt to breath one time and about 2 days after the massage it cleared up. Just let them know what the problem is so they can work on the muscles around it.

    Also, dont work traps. Ive found this makes it worse for me.
    ~Get shredded or die trying! The alphamine chapter~
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  7.  10-21-2012  09:37 PM
    Registered User BMStricklin's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Docmattic View Post
    I get this occasionally, but have learnt to recognise it, so I dont work out if it get it these days. Sleep on your back as you mentioned with a heat pack under the sore area all night. This will help the muscles relax. I also take anti inflammatory tablets. After a few days go get a massage. I had it to the point it hurt to breath one time and about 2 days after the massage it cleared up. Just let them know what the problem is so they can work on the muscles around it.

    Also, dont work traps. Ive found this makes it worse for me.
    See it is really weird.. I have had this going for over a month and it seems to be getting better slowly. I am still in the job searching market and there are alot of opportunities in law enforcement. BUT I will not pass the physical agility tests because push ups are PAINFUL.. typically I can do about 50 straight none stop but just doing one now sends a streaking pain across my chest in the collarbone region.. my symptoms seem to be moving

  8.  10-21-2012  09:43 PM
    Unbreakable Moderator David Dunn's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    Sounds like a tweak to one of the cervical extensors, possibly a tweak and some nerve impingement.

    Rest it. DO NOT STRETCH IT. You will only irritate the muscle and cause it to spasm further.

    Some trigger point release will help. Get your significant other to apply pressure for 45 sec on the muscle. Don't rub it hard, but just apply pressure where ever the pain is the greatest, then move to another area, and repeat. This will hopefully get the muscle to release a little.

    Its happened to me before, usually takes about 3-4 weeks to clear up fully.
    Ditto.

    Cervical spine and brachial plexus (nerve branch) radiate all the way down to the finger tips. Spasms suggest possible innervation . Be carefull.

    I had a traumatic load injury that caused innervation at the nerve root of my c6 and it atrophied my peck, lat and tricep very considerably.

    Like Z mentioned no stretching. Rest. Cervical decompression and od inversion works well.

    Edit: not sure bow "princedom nerve" got in there. Also, denervation not innervation

  9.  10-22-2012  02:34 PM
    Registered User NYiron's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    Ditto.

    Cervical spine and brachial plexus (nerve branch) radiate all the way down to the finger tips. Spasms suggest possible innervation) princedoms nerve) . Be carefull.

    I had a traumatic load injury that caused innervation at the nerve root of my c6 and it atrophied my peck, lat and tricep very considerably.

    Like Z mentioned no stretching. Rest. Cervical decompression and od inversion works well.

    innervation - definition of innervation in the Medical dictionary - by the Free Online Medical Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

    I think you may mean impingement, not innervation. Also I am not familiar with the peripheral nerve you have referenced, princedoms nerve, could you enlighten me on its neural pathway and function? Neither the cervical spine or brachial plexus are nerve branches. The cervical spine is the upper most portion of vertebrae comprised of C1-C7, housing the upper most portion of the spinal cord. The brachial plexus is a complex parallel neural pathway originating from the ventral rami of C5-T1 and converging along the neck, axilla and arm then "branching" into the respective peripheral pathways.

  10.  10-22-2012  02:58 PM
    Unbreakable Moderator David Dunn's Avatar
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    No.

  11.  10-22-2012  03:00 PM
    Registered User NYiron's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by David Dunn
    No.
    ...

  12.  10-22-2012  03:59 PM
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    Originally Posted by NYiron View Post

    innervation - definition of innervation in the Medical dictionary - by the Free Online Medical Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

    I think you may mean impingement, not innervation. Also I am not familiar with the peripheral nerve you have referenced, princedoms nerve, could you enlighten me on its neural pathway and function? Neither the cervical spine or brachial plexus are nerve branches. The cervical spine is the upper most portion of vertebrae comprised of C1-C7, housing the upper most portion of the spinal cord. The brachial plexus is a complex parallel neural pathway originating from the ventral rami of C5-T1 and converging along the neck, axilla and arm then "branching" into the respective peripheral pathways.
    No, I meant: denervation [de″ner-va´shun] interruption of the nerve connection to an organ or part.

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    As you can see by the illustration above the brachial plexus is a bundle of nerves (branches) whose root is in the cervical spine which braches out into individual nerves.

    The denervation, in my case, took place at the C6 nerve root (diagnosed via Electromyogram [EMG] and nerve conductivity study) and effected the braches downward, resulting in the atrophy at the muscle locations which I indicated and are also identified in the illustration.

    Electromyogram (EMG) and Nerve Conduction Studies

  13.  10-22-2012  04:31 PM
    Registered User NYiron's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by David Dunn

    No, I meant: denervation [de?ner-va´shun] interruption of the nerve connection to an organ or part.

    <img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=68 670"/>
    Ah I see. An impingement on a nerve could potentially be a cause for the denerveation, they are interrelated. I knew what you were referring to as far that but assumed impingement due to the similar "I" as the first letter of each and context of the post by zir you were agreeing with. Yes, that is the brachial plexus.

    Edit: Exactly, it is comprised of parallel nerve branches. The brachial plexus itself is not a nerve branch as you had originally stated, but rather a complex convergence.

  14.  10-22-2012  04:40 PM
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    Originally Posted by NYiron View Post
    Ah I see. An impingement on a nerve could potentially be a cause for the denerveation, they are interrelated. I knew what you were referring to as far that but assumed impingement due to the similar "I" as the first letter of each and context of the post by zir you were agreeing with. Yes, that is the brachial plexus.

    Edit: Exactly, it is comprised of parallel nerve branches. The brachial plexus itself is not a nerve branch as you had originally stated, but rather a complex convergence.
    Mine was not an impingement. It was a blunt force trauma from an overhead load of about 300lbs that came crashing down upon me while still in my grip (left hand). The weight of the load cause the left side of my C6 to crush the nerve root causing the denervation. Impingement is a rather mildly discriptive word for it but you get the point.

  15.  10-22-2012  04:43 PM
    Registered User NYiron's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by David Dunn
    Mine was not an impingement. It was a blunt force trauma from an overhead load of about 300lbs that came crashing down upon me while still in my grip (left hand). The weight of the load cause the left side of my C6 to crush the nerve root causing the denervation. Impingement is a rather mildly discriptive word for it but you get the point.
    Which is why I was careful in my wording to say "could potentially be" there are obviously various causes for one outcome. Also, I am sorry to hear of your misfortune and hope you either recovered completely or are on the road to.

  16.  10-22-2012  05:07 PM
    Unbreakable Moderator David Dunn's Avatar
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    The difference between impingement and denervation is that an impingement causes symptoms that can be relieved by the removal of the impingement - decompression etc. Denervation is not repaired by the removal of the impingement. It is the result of an impact/blunt force/injury and is/can be permanent. Fortunately nerves do regenerate, at a slow rarte, but do none the less.

    It was traumanic tyo me at first. After 6 years of dedicated training I lost 2 inches off of my left arm in two weeks (usual rate of denervation) and the pec and lat were pretty devestated as well. For example I could, at the time, Incline press 120lb DBs for 6 before. After I could not do 40lbs for 6. It's been about 4 years now and all is good. My unilateral strength is back to 100% equal and bilateral movements are improved because of the learning experience from my self-designed unilateral rehab training. There is a slightest impalance in size but I get over it.

    Thank for asking!

  17.  10-22-2012  05:30 PM
    Registered User NYiron's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by David Dunn
    The difference between impingement and denervation is that an impingement causes symptoms that can be relieved by the removal of the impingement - decompression etc. Denervation is not repaired by the removal of the impingement it is the result of an impact/blunt force/injury and is/can be permanent. Fortunately nerves do regenerate, at a slow rarte, but do none the less.

    It was traumanic tyo me at first. After 6 years of dedicated training I lost 2 inches off of my left arm in two weeks (usual rate of denervation) and the pec and lat were pretty devestated as well. For example I could, at the time, Incline press 120lb DBs for 6 before. After I could not do 40lbs for 6. It's been about 4 years now and all is good. My unilateral strength is back to 100% equal and bilateral movements are improved because of my learning experience from my self-designed unilateral rehab training. There is a slightest impalance in size but I get over it.

    Thank for asking!
    I wouldn't say that necessarily. Impingement is the act of compression, the strike, the "pinch". In your case impingement of that nerve occurred as a result of blunt force and the acute nature of the impingement caused the severe outcome of denerveation. Either way it is impingement at varying degrees of severity, with outcomes and rehabilitation to reflect just that.

    Good to hear! That must have been a nightmare recovery. I'm glad your back to 100 percent. Never like to see a fellow mover of iron down on injury.

  18.  10-22-2012  08:23 PM
    Registered User BMStricklin's Avatar
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    So a couple questions. You guys seem to know alot and have prior experience with this.

    My tricep on the arm that is affected, the long head feels "soft" compared to my other arm, is this possibly from atrophy and the reason I cannot perform the movements?

    I also cannot flex my Pec on that side, and if that is not the case, all the hardness is gone.. could this be from the impingement or would you think that is atrophy as well.. neither area has lost size, it just feels like I cannot flex them.

    As far as my shoulders go, if I am sitting back I feel good.. but if I am leaning foward on the couch eating or just leaning forward with my elbows on my knees (shoulders rolled or pushed forward) it is only a matter of minutes before my shoulder starts to hurt . Spasms are gone and actually only lasted for like the first week and a half of all this. Sorta wished Blue cross Blue shield would hurry the F up with my info.

    So any ideas..

  19.  10-22-2012  09:14 PM
    Registered User NYiron's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BMStricklin
    So a couple questions. You guys seem to know alot and have prior experience with this.

    My tricep on the arm that is affected, the long head feels "soft" compared to my other arm, is this possibly from atrophy and the reason I cannot perform the movements?

    I also cannot flex my Pec on that side, and if that is not the case, all the hardness is gone.. could this be from the impingement or would you think that is atrophy as well.. neither area has lost size, it just feels like I cannot flex them.

    As far as my shoulders go, if I am sitting back I feel good.. but if I am leaning foward on the couch eating or just leaning forward with my elbows on my knees (shoulders rolled or pushed forward) it is only a matter of minutes before my shoulder starts to hurt . Spasms are gone and actually only lasted for like the first week and a half of all this. Sorta wished Blue cross Blue shield would hurry the F up with my info.

    So any ideas..
    The sensation you are feeling of the muscle lacking in density, an almost jelly like feel, is most likely due to the injury. It seems as if you are losing muscle tone, not the traditional sense of tone but the physiological sense. Also, a lack of voluntary contraction ability would be a sign of nervous system injury. The motor units are not receiving the action potentials necessary to maintain tone or to establish voluntary contraction as a result of the impinged nerve. If I were you I would see a doctor as soon as possible. The atrophy associated with this type of injury is too close for comfort I'd take care of it ASAP.

  20.  10-22-2012  09:39 PM
    Registered User BMStricklin's Avatar
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    Thanks Iron.. My Health insurance company should be receiving payment tomorrow.. so hopefully they can give me the group and policy number over the phone.

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