Bad cholesterol question

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    Bad cholesterol question


    I've noticed that a lot of people list high cholesterol levels as a side effect of juicing.....I was wondering if the high cholesterol could be a result of consuming protein powders that are loaded with lethal amounts of cholesterol and diets consisting of more meat than an average person. It's a fact that most juicers use protein supps and eat a lot of dead animals. It was just a thought........

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    Interesting, except.....


    The link between dietary cholesterol intake and plasma LDL (the bad cholesterol) values is weak, at most.

    The link between saturated fat intake and plasma LDL cholesterol is also not strong, and highly dependent on the type of saturated fat consumed.

    However: We know that high sugar, refined CHO, and transfatty acid intakes - especially when high sugar/refined CHO is combined with high saturated fat (see western diet) - does cause an increase in LDL values.

    The link between steroids and cholesterol has to do with the hormones used. Estrogen has positive effects on cholesterol metabolism, however, many users on steroids attempt to fully block estrogen to minimize side effects, causing a negative impact on blood lipids. This is actually a really complex question, and depends on the nature of the drug used.

    So, to answer your question - protein powder and meat intake is not responsible (at least, not to a significant degree) for the higher LDL values i steroid users.

    Br

    Volek JS and Forsythe CE. The Case for Not Restricting Saturated Fat on a Low-Carbohydrate Diet. Nutr Metab. 2005 Aug 31;2:21



    Volek JS, Sharman MJ, Forsythe CE. Modification of Lipoproteins by Very Low-Carbohydrate Diets. Review. J Nutr. 2005 Jun;135(6):1339-42

    Forsythe CE, Phinney SD, Fernandez ML, Quann EE, Wood RJ, Bibus DM, Kraemer WJ, Feinman RD, Volek JS. Comparison of Low Fat and Low Carbohydrate Diets on Circulating Fatty Acid Composition and Markers of Inflammation. Lipids. 2007; Nov 29



    Forsythe CE, French MA, Goh YK, Clandinin MT. Cholesterolaemic Influence of Palmitic Acid in the sn1,3 vs sn2 Position with High or Low Dietary Linoleic Acid in Healthy Young Men. Br J Nutr. 2007; Mar 29; 1-8
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    You working on writing a paper Zir? I am assuming so since you had those references on hand. If you are can I get a copy when you done?

    I am about to look up the studies now
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrob05 View Post
    I've noticed that a lot of people list high cholesterol levels as a side effect of juicing.....I was wondering if the high cholesterol could be a result of consuming protein powders that are loaded with lethal amounts of cholesterol and diets consisting of more meat than an average person. It's a fact that most juicers use protein supps and eat a lot of dead animals. It was just a thought........
    for laughter's sake, I think i've had 4 or 5 shakes in the last 3 months combined. Plenty of dead animals, but most of mine are chicken and fish, with beef only a couple of meals a week.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    You working on writing a paper Zir? I am assuming so since you had those references on hand. If you are can I get a copy when you done?

    I am about to look up the studies now
    Studying for doctoral qualifying exams and working on my dissertation proposal at the moment.

    I have an extensive library of journal articles and book sections..all organized in mendeley. A few key words and I come up with ref's quick. I can actually send you my library list if you'd like.

    Br
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    Studying for doctoral qualifying exams and working on my dissertation proposal at the moment.

    I have an extensive library of journal articles and book sections..all organized in mendeley. A few key words and I come up with ref's quick. I can actually send you my library list if you'd like.

    Br
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    for laughter's sake, I think i've had 4 or 5 shakes in the last 3 months combined. Plenty of dead animals, but most of mine are chicken and fish, with beef only a couple of meals a week.
    Well stick to what you're doing-Your heart should be healthy for a long time!!
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    Thanks for taking the time to clarify that Zir. Genetics can also play a large role in hormone levels and cholesterol problems. There are a lot of diffrent factors which can make these issues tricky.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    Interesting, except.....
    Spot on. Its long been proved that saturated animal fats and dietary cholesterol have little/no significant effect on plasma lipids and LDL's. As a matter of fact stearic acid, one of the three fatty acids in saturated animal fat, helps lower LDL's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    Interesting, except.....


    The link between dietary cholesterol intake and plasma LDL (the bad cholesterol) values is weak, at most.

    The link between saturated fat intake and plasma LDL cholesterol is also not strong, and highly dependent on the type of saturated fat consumed.

    However: We know that high sugar, refined CHO, and transfatty acid intakes - especially when high sugar/refined CHO is combined with high saturated fat (see western diet) - does cause an increase in LDL values.

    The link between steroids and cholesterol has to do with the hormones used. Estrogen has positive effects on cholesterol metabolism, however, many users on steroids attempt to fully block estrogen to minimize side effects, causing a negative impact on blood lipids. This is actually a really complex question, and depends on the nature of the drug used.

    So, to answer your question - protein powder and meat intake is not responsible (at least, not to a significant degree) for the higher LDL values i steroid users.

    Br

    Volek JS and Forsythe CE. The Case for Not Restricting Saturated Fat on a Low-Carbohydrate Diet. Nutr Metab. 2005 Aug 31;2:21



    Volek JS, Sharman MJ, Forsythe CE. Modification of Lipoproteins by Very Low-Carbohydrate Diets. Review. J Nutr. 2005 Jun;135(6):1339-42

    Forsythe CE, Phinney SD, Fernandez ML, Quann EE, Wood RJ, Bibus DM, Kraemer WJ, Feinman RD, Volek JS. Comparison of Low Fat and Low Carbohydrate Diets on Circulating Fatty Acid Composition and Markers of Inflammation. Lipids. 2007; Nov 29



    Forsythe CE, French MA, Goh YK, Clandinin MT. Cholesterolaemic Influence of Palmitic Acid in the sn1,3 vs sn2 Position with High or Low Dietary Linoleic Acid in Healthy Young Men. Br J Nutr. 2007; Mar 29; 1-8
    Awesome post...

    It is sad how annoying it is to see people telling me I'm going to die in 5 years if I keep going with my Metabolic Diet, with all this Protein and all this Fat... How my Cholesterol is going to skyrocket (although it diminished since I started the diet), how I'm never going to keep it up forever (9 months on it and absolutely 0 issues so far), how my liver is going to be shot because of all the fat that it has to process and all this different other crap I have to hear. Not to mention saying that my arteries are gonna clog within 5 years and that I can't see the effects of that, not to mention BP.

    It is fairly annoying.

    Would you happen to have any studies linking liver function to high consumption of fat by a chance? I would love to read up on that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bla55 View Post
    Awesome post...

    It is sad how annoying it is to see people telling me I'm going to die in 5 years if I keep going with my Metabolic Diet, with all this Protein and all this Fat... How my Cholesterol is going to skyrocket (although it diminished since I started the diet), how I'm never going to keep it up forever (9 months on it and absolutely 0 issues so far), how my liver is going to be shot because of all the fat that it has to process and all this different other crap I have to hear. Not to mention saying that my arteries are gonna clog within 5 years and that I can't see the effects of that, not to mention BP.

    It is fairly annoying.

    Would you happen to have any studies linking liver function to high consumption of fat by a chance? I would love to read up on that.
    To your first point: You should read up on Dr. Key's study on high-fat = high cholesterol/myocardial infarction (terrible piece of research, btw), how the FDA turned down his suggestions for about 5 straight years, and how the FDA only adopted it AFTER he became a board member.

    To your question: You'll see a lot more research about non-alcoholic fatty liver syndrome from excess refined sugar and HFCs, and how the effects of these on the liver cause a number of atherogenic effects.

    Song, M., Schuschke, D. A., Zhou, Z., Chen, T., Pierce, W. M., Wang, R., et al. (2011). High Fructose Feeding Induces Copper Deficiency in Sprague-Dawley rats: A Novel Mechanism for Obesity Related Fatty Liver. Journal of hepatology. doi: 10.1016/j.jhep.2011.05.030.


    Samuel, V. T. (2011). Fructose induced lipogenesis: from sugar to fat to insulin resistance. Trends in endocrinology and metabolism: TEM, 22(2), 60-5. doi: 10.1016/j.tem.2010.10.003.


    Nseir, W., Nassar, F., & Assy, N. (2010). Soft drinks consumption and nonalcoholic fatty liver disease. World journal of gastroenterology : WJG, 16(21), 2579-88. Retrieved August 24, 2011, from http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...rtype=abstract.


    Collison, K. S., Saleh, S. M., Bakheet, R. H., Al-Rabiah, R. K., Inglis, A. L., Makhoul, N. J., et al. (2009). Diabetes of the liver: the link between nonalcoholic fatty liver disease and HFCS-55. Obesity (Silver Spring, Md.), 17(11), 2003-13. doi: 10.1038/oby.2009.58.


    Tetri, L. H., Basaranoglu, M., Brunt, E. M., Yerian, L. M., & Neuschwander-Tetri, B. A. (2008). Severe NAFLD with hepatic necroinflammatory changes in mice fed trans fats and a high-fructose corn syrup equivalent. American journal of physiology. Gastrointestinal and liver physiology, 295(5), G987-95. doi: 10.1152/ajpgi.90272.2008.


    As for higher fat diets and liver function, much of the research I've seen (on a quick pub-med search) is done in mice, which often when comparing dietary and metabolic outcomes does not model humans well.

    Nuernberg, K., Breier, B. H., Jayasinghe, S. N., Bergmann, H., Thompson, N., Nuernberg, G., et al. (2011). Metabolic responses to high-fat diets rich in n-3 or n-6 long-chain polyunsaturated fatty acids in mice selected for either high body weight or leanness explain different health outcomes. Nutrition & metabolism, 8(1), 56. doi: 10.1186/1743-7075-8-56.


    Todoric, J., Löffler, M., Huber, J., Bilban, M., Reimers, M., Kadl, A., et al. (2006). Adipose tissue inflammation induced by high-fat diet in obese diabetic mice is prevented by n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids. Diabetologia, 49(9), 2109-19. doi: 10.1007/s00125-006-0300-x.


    It's also hard to find differences between healthy subjects, and models of metabolic syndrome/insulin resistance.

    Panzoldo, N. B., Urban, A., Parra, E. S., Oliveira, R., Zago, V. S., Silva, L. R. da, et al. (2011). Differences and similarities of postprandial lipemia in rodents and humans. Lipids in health and disease, 10, 86. doi: 10.1186/1476-511X-10-86.
    Br
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    As for higher fat diets and liver function, much of the research I've seen (on a quick pub-med search) is done in mice, which often when comparing dietary and metabolic outcomes does not model humans well.
    Very true, Alzhiemers has been cured in rats on several different occasions with several different treatments but none of them have proven to work in humans.
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    ^^^ This isnt a metabolic example, but has to do with the difference in amount of myelin and neurons between humans and rodents.
    Suffer now.. and live like a champion later.
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    Thanks Red, will check those out!
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