5x5 vs cluster training

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    5x5 vs cluster training


    I was reading on both recently, and was wondering about them.

    I was thinking of using a cluster training style with the Blood and Guts routine from Dorian Yates, or Bill Starr's Madcow 5x5.

    Which would be better for strength? size?

    I'm just looking at different options of training style and I'm leaning toward the cluster because an 8x3 of 85% max would push adaptation quite a bit.

    thoughts? comments? concerns?

    I would post the links but I don't have the post count yet..

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    Your post count is better than mine, lol!

    I can only comment on Starr's 5x5 - it will get you big if you can eat enough to keep pushing heavier weights. The funny thing is that the more you squat the bigger the entire body gets...there are not that many small guys that squat big weights!!
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    what about using starr's lift plan but with a cluster training set scheme?
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    Quote Originally Posted by yardape View Post
    Your post count is better than mine, lol!

    I can only comment on Starr's 5x5 - it will get you big if you can eat enough to keep pushing heavier weights. The funny thing is that the more you squat the bigger the entire body gets...there are not that many small guys that squat big weights!!
    Im not familiar with clusterr training. but 5x5 has really helped me make gains in every lift i do. def my fav workout routine for strength and size.

    nothing has worked better than this for me personally
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    My biggest worry is that the doc thinks I have a lower abdominal wall strain.. so I've been staying away from squats/deadlifts because I get a shooting pain followed by burning hot pain in my lower left abs from it.. they checked for a hernia, but it's not.. he recommended I try to do those lifts, but just nurse it.. so the gains may be lessened..
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtterrible View Post
    I was reading on both recently, and was wondering about them.

    I was thinking of using a cluster training style with the Blood and Guts routine from Dorian Yates, or Bill Starr's Madcow 5x5.

    Which would be better for strength? size?

    I'm just looking at different options of training style and I'm leaning toward the cluster because an 8x3 of 85% max would push adaptation quite a bit.


    thoughts? comments? concerns?

    I would post the links but I don't have the post count yet..
    It depends on the individual and factors like nutrition as to what would be best. However, in saying that, I have individualized and adapted Derek Charlebois' 10x3 training programme for some of my clients wanting size and strength, and even with not staying completely on track with nutrition and missing training sessions, one of them gained a total of 12 pounds in 12 weeks whilst maintaining the same body composition, gaining strength as well. Personal preference will also determine what one you eventually go with, I imagine.

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    I sampled some cluster training with some of my regular training, i believe the idea is your doing a sub maximal heavy lift for severl rest pause sets, it gave a good pump but burned out my cns pretty bad. I dont think that helps but its my personal experience
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtterrible View Post
    My biggest worry is that the doc thinks I have a lower abdominal wall strain.. so I've been staying away from squats/deadlifts because I get a shooting pain followed by burning hot pain in my lower left abs from it.. they checked for a hernia, but it's not.. he recommended I try to do those lifts, but just nurse it.. so the gains may be lessened..
    I used to get that too. You should still do squat and deadlifts just use a really light weight and slowly work your way up. I used 135 for deadlift for over a semester just to get my body used to the lift.

    This semester I worked up a little bit extra every week and now I'm doing working out with 225.

    If your abs allow you to, just work your way up a little faster to where you can do 5x5. I wouldnt shy away from those lifts if you can help it, they are pretty important, even if you are doing a lighter weight
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    well I have decided on the 5x5 training.. but I'm worried due to the lack of heavy weights on my key lifts that I won't gain much.. what should I do to be sure??... perhaps the blood and guts with a different rep scheme thrown in might be better?.. and doing squats/deads on Mon/Wed/Fri until I get my strain taken care of?.. thoughts??.. I really need some feedback.. I'm not used to being injured and trying to nurse.. and all isolation doesn't do as much for mass it seems..
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    talk about analyzing things
    try not doing the lifts that will injure you
    Sub deads with goodmornings, heavy hypers, barbell rows
    Sub squats with hack squats, pause squats, front squats
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    Quote Originally Posted by SweetLou321 View Post
    talk about analyzing things
    try not doing the lifts that will injure you
    Sub deads with goodmornings, heavy hypers, barbell rows
    Sub squats with hack squats, pause squats, front squats
    it's been like this for a year.. doc said try to do the lifts that hurt it, but do it really light and work into it.. my guess is because he's not completely sure what it is.. and PT/Surgeon would cost a penny to check..
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    Just do one of the supplemental lifts in place of the main lift and still work in the squats and deads but light? i dont see the problem here
    Im sure you can squeeze some light feeler sets of squats and deads in a 5x5 with heavy replacements for gains.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtterrible View Post
    it's been like this for a year.. doc said try to do the lifts that hurt it, but do it really light and work into it.. my guess is because he's not completely sure what it is.. and PT/Surgeon would cost a penny to check..
    you say its been like this for a year. have you been trying to ease into these lifts for a year? or are you just saying that the pain has been there for a year?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayactr2k6 View Post
    you say its been like this for a year. have you been trying to ease into these lifts for a year? or are you just saying that the pain has been there for a year?
    I have avoided the lifts that hurt for a year.. last spring when I was doing them it developed and I just stayed off of it.. and I tried them again a couple weeks ago and the pain is still there.. it only hurts during squats and deads..
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    Quote Originally Posted by SweetLou321 View Post
    Just do one of the supplemental lifts in place of the main lift and still work in the squats and deads but light? i dont see the problem here
    Im sure you can squeeze some light feeler sets of squats and deads in a 5x5 with heavy replacements for gains.
    This sounds like something I've seen recently. I have a friend who's easing back into squatting after a leg injury. He's done some isolated leg work like leg extensions and ham c to pre-exhaust the legs before getting in to do a lighter squat weight than he used too do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrodz View Post
    This sounds like something I've seen recently. I have a friend who's easing back into squatting after a leg injury. He's done some isolated leg work like leg extensions and ham c to pre-exhaust the legs before getting in to do a lighter squat weight than he used too do.
    It would be more logical for your friend to use some lifts that hit all aspects of the legs instead of leg ext/leg curls since these miss some key parts.

    Suggest some high rep walking lunges, single leg leg presses, high rep rdl, or some light bulgarian split squats to pre-exhast. Since these will have a better carrier over to his squats. also make sure he properly warms up his hams since they stabalize the knee joint.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtterrible View Post
    I have avoided the lifts that hurt for a year.. last spring when I was doing them it developed and I just stayed off of it.. and I tried them again a couple weeks ago and the pain is still there.. it only hurts during squats and deads..
    Just do them with light weight for awhile then. I have torn cartilage in my knee and I've slowly worked my way up to squatting with 315 with little to no pain either during or after. For the longest time I wouldnt go higher then 225. likewise for deads i was only doinng 135 for over half a year before moving up even 10 lbs.

    Maybe for deadlifts try romanian deadlifts, where you dont really use your legs and you use much less weight then in a normal deadlift. that way you can build those core muscles and maybe attune them to supporting the weight.

    Or you can do sumo deadlifts where it focuses the weight more on your legs instead of your core.

    Figure out something you can do that works those muscles without feeling that pain you've described. once you figure out what you can do that doesnt hurt, maybe add weight in whatever that is until that pain goes away in your compound lifts
  

  
 

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