Calculating single muscle strength based on compount moves?
01-10-2011 10:49 PM
Calculating single muscle strength based on compount moves?
I have an interesting question that maybe some of you can help me answer.
My friend decided to have this strangth gain contest, and decided to base all the strength gains off of single muscle groups (ie curls, leg ext, leg curl, etc.) The only compound moves are overhead presses and bench.
I was in the middl of the SS program, and then moved to Layne Norton program while on my MDROL cycle. I saw great strength gains, but I was unable to do most of the single muscl group "tests" that were defined by my "I'm an expert because I have a B.S. in physical therapy" friend.
So, I'd like to ask you guys, assuming balanced muscle strength developemnt, what would be an estimated 1RM numbers for the following lifts?
Seated Lat Pull Downs
Seated Military Press
Seated Leg Extension
Lying Leg Curls
I currently weigh 80kg, and here are my 1RM numbers calculated from my 5RM with a .857 conversion for 1RM.
Strict form pull-ups 20reps @ BW
Standing overhead press 64kg
Squats to parallel 157kg
preacher curl 35kg
I know this is a lot of speculation, due to muscle strength imbalances, but I figure if I use the same formula for the beginning and end, that it will at least be consistant.
01-11-2011 01:12 PM
Sounds like your friends need a lesson teaching.
How about a strength test based on Squat, Deadlift, Bench Press.
01-11-2011 03:44 PM
The only true way to accurately measure force production is with a BioDex. In my opinion, if you want to compare your results with your friends I would strongly suggest you stick to an exercise and not try to break down individual forces-that would be more for biomechanists. You could take an exercise and calculate force produced per kg of body weight-although there are confounding issues such as form, diet, previous type of training (motor learning), etc. Other characteristics such as fiber type would play a role in force production.
01-11-2011 04:07 PM
why were you unable to do these? I fail to see it.
Originally Posted by gaijininjapan
01-11-2011 10:27 PM
That's what I said! but he just replied "KISS, keep it simple, we'll use these single muscle group tests" But it's probably because his gym doesn't have free-weights, only a smith machine, and he always has an excuse not to do squats... But oh well, whatever, I don't really care.
Originally Posted by CrazyBassGuy
01-11-2011 10:33 PM
I work out an an antiquidated prefecture-run gym in Japan. Machines all have sequential numbers on the plates and have unequal radius pulleys. So pretty much the only equipment I have is a power rack, flat bench, and freeweights.
Originally Posted by EasyEJL
Seated Lat Pull Downs - while there is a lat pulldown machine at my gym, they only have the short tri pushdown handles and a Z-shaped bar.
Seated Military Press - no chair to place in the power rack.
Bicep Curls - Actually, I was doing preacher and spider curls, seems thar regular BB curls are easier though, but I just never tested this specific lift.
Seated Leg Extension - chain on machine broke, and machine counts in sequential numbers, not weight
Lying Leg Curls - same as above
01-12-2011 09:52 AM
what a drag that is to only have that sort of gym to work in.
01-12-2011 12:30 PM
I would just wind him up.
Tell him he may be stronger than you at his tests, but because he doesn't squat he will never be half the man you are
And be done with that :P
01-12-2011 12:55 PM
To be honest, the only things you could even start to estimate are free weight movements being as standardised as possible.
Anyone who has trained in multiple gyms know that cable and machine exercises rarely cross over. Depending on the pulley system I have known guys doing seated rows with weights towards 200kg who could barely do DB Rows with 30kgs. I sometimes train between two gyms and I cannot use the same cable exercise at the weight stacks are so different. A fixed pulley at the bottom will often feel different to an adjustable height pulley for example.
This will be the same for leg extension, leg curl and lat pulldown machines.
You could estimate bicep curls and seated military press but very inaccurately.
If you are genuinely having a strength gain contest (which is an excellent idea) you need something that you can genuinely compare. Dumbbell and barbell work, with a set form. It wouldn't make sense one guy going ATG and the other going to parallel, in the same way that a lot of guys don't touch their chest on their bench press.
Go back with a list of exercises you can do and tell him to use his intelligence to think of a better test.
01-13-2011 02:45 AM
We were having a discussion about cutting, and told him to try HIIT.
"not really into those cookie cutter programs... ...I'd rather look at people who know what they're doing and see how their workout has changed them, namely, pro body builders."
So... I give up... I don't know of any amateur or pro body builder that would ever advocate not doing squats. And the reason he doesn't do squats? He fell and hurt his hip or something like 5 yrs ago...
And it's hard to tell him anything since he's about 30lbs heavier than me, so that whole "me not want to listen to person smaller than me" mentality comes into play.
As for my gym... it's $1.50 each time I go. sure beats a commercial gym that charges about $120 per month.
01-13-2011 12:49 PM
$120 / month?!? The most I've ever paid was $35
01-13-2011 01:14 PM
01-13-2011 02:20 PM
Sorry - I just realised I don't think I said anything productive in this thread at all!
I stand by my opinions tho...
01-13-2011 06:14 PM
I'm in Japan. They don't need strong people here, they have robots.
Originally Posted by russy_russ
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