fascia stretching does it work? also how would you stretch this stuff

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    Cool fascia stretching does it work? also how would you stretch this stuff


    i heard its not normal stretching but stretching fascia gives you more room to grow, kinda like filling in your shirt you bought when you were skin n bones. how would this work?

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    Dc training uses extreme stretching check this out
    http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=9527
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    Hope this helps.

    You may have heard of the idea of muscle fascia stretching to help increase muscle growth. What is the muscle fascia and is there any scientific evidence these help support muscle growth?

    What is the muscle fascia?

    Muscle fascia is a very tough material that surrounds individual muscles and muscle groups. It hugs the muscles very tightly.

    Research on muscle fascia helping muscle growth:

    I could not find any studies, where it directly supported that muscle fascia stretching increases muscle growth. Right now it is mostly based on indirect scientific studies, anatomy, and ancedotal evidence. The theory seems to have got started because people who used to have muscle (or were even fat), had a easier time putting back on muscle, called “muscle memory”.

    Other supporting evidence, is that bodybuilders who spot inject site enhancement oil. This is where they inject a oil into a muscle in order to bring up a lagging muscle. The most notorious user of this was Greg Valentino, who went overboard and has made his body look ridiculous. Many people assume that the oil is causing temporary muscle gain, but in fact based on user experience it appears to cause actual long term muscle gain as the result of stretching the muscle fascia. Many pro-bodybuilders, such as Olympia winners Jay Cutler and Arnold Schwarzennegar, do forms of weighted fascia stretching as part of their workouts.

    It is reasonable to assume from all this, that muscle fascia should help make muscle gains easier. If you are looking for scientific research, surprisingly there is another reason why muscle fascia may help muscle growth. You can read more about it in a previous article I wroteoes hyperplasia cause growth in human skeletal muscle?

    With the evidence on hyperplasia and muscle fascia, I have no doubt that muscle fascia stretching will help boost your muscle growth. I recently started incorporating it into my workouts.

    How to stretch the muscle fascia tissue:

    Muscle fascia stretching should be done after a good muscle pump from your workout. All fascia stretching is done at the bottom of the negative rep for a good long stretch of 30 seconds to one minute. For example if your doing chest, after your chest workout sets, hold a good long weighted fascia stretch with a chest flye at the bottom. Make sure you don’t lower the weight to the point of pain. You should feel a stretch and it should be tough to hold, but it should not be excessive as it will cause injury.

    Muscle fascia stretching automatically grow muscle?

    No. You will still need to train hard and increase calories and protein. The muscle fascia tissue is stretched which allows the opportunityof muscle growth to happen. If you don’t stimulate it by bulking and weight training, you won’t notice any gains.
    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates
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    Wasn't there a study done on birds that stretched their wings to help build muscle/strength? I seem to recall seeing that someone on Intensemuscle regarding DC training...
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    Foam roller, could be your best friend.
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    Yea...a hard foam roller and tennis ball work wonders!
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    Quote Originally Posted by lonewolf0420 View Post
    Foam roller, could be your best friend.

    I must be slow. Could you elaborate more?
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    The release of the tissue tension, while rolling, feels great. For me it works great, when I do it. stretches out the tissue in my back and hips. Rolling along the it bands (side of the your thighs) is one of the most painful things I have done to myself, but boy does it feel good to release that tissue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    Wasn't there a study done on birds that stretched their wings to help build muscle/strength? I seem to recall seeing that someone on Intensemuscle regarding DC training...
    If I recall this correctly the wings of a bird were placed in a resisted stretch position for 24 hours. The conclusion was that the bird's wings hypertrophied to adapt to the stress.

    I only read another PT's summary of the article about 3 years ago so the terminology could be way off. That is the concept from what I remember.
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    I think it is worth thinking about the difference between a loaded stretch and a stretch. People talk about the growth they achieve with stretching, to some people that is holding a chest fly position with dumbbells i.e., weighted isometric contraction rather than doing a passive chest stretch up against a wall.

    Obviously there is a huge difference. It is worth qualifying when talking about the results.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    I think it is worth thinking about the difference between a loaded stretch and a stretch. People talk about the growth they achieve with stretching, to some people that is holding a chest fly position with dumbbells i.e., weighted isometric contraction rather than doing a passive chest stretch up against a wall.

    Obviously there is a huge difference. It is worth qualifying when talking about the results.
    I agree, anyone who's done DC-style "extreme" stretching knows this all too well...
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    Here are the studies I was thinking of, quite significant results. I'm going to have to go back to more extreme stretching...


    Progressive stretch overload of skeletal muscle results in hypertrophy before hyperplasia.Antonio J, Gonyea WJ

    J Appl Physiol 1993; 75:1263-71.

    Abstract

    Intermittent stretch of the anterior latissimus dorsi (ALD) muscle produces fiber hypertrophy without fiber hyperplasia (J. Appl. Physiol. 74: 1893-1898, 1993).

    This study was undertaken to determine if a progressive increase in load and duration of stretch would induce extremely large muscle fiber areas or if the fibers would reach a critical size before the onset of fiber hyperplasia. Weights ranging from 10 to 35% of the bird's mass were attached to the right wing of 26 adult quail while the left wing served as the intra-animal control.
    The stretch protocol was as follows: day 1 (10% wt), days 2 and 3 (rest), day 4 (15% wt), days 5-7 (rest), day 8 (20% wt), days 9 and 10 (rest), days 11-14 (25% wt), days 15 and 16 (rest), and days 17-38 (35% wt).
    Birds were killed after 12, 16, 20, 24, and 28 days of stretch not including rest days.

    Muscle mass increased 174% (12 days), 196% (16 days), 225% (20 days), 264% (24 days), and 318% (28 days).


    Muscle length increased 60% (12 days), 34% (16 days), 59% (20 days), 50% (24 days), and 51% (28 days). Mean fiber area increased 111% (12 days), 142% (16 days), 75% (20 days), 90% (24 days), and 39% (28 days).

    Fiber number, which was measured histologically, increased significantly by 82% only in the 28 days of stretch group. The percentage of slow tonic fibers did not change for any of the time points examined.


    Skeletal muscle fiber hyperplasia.
    Antonio J, Gonyea WJ

    Med Sci Sports Exerc 1993; 25:1333-45.

    Abstract
    Skeletal muscle enlargement in adult animals has been ascribed primarily to changes in fiber cross-sectional area (i.e., fiber hypertrophy); however, recent evidence from several laboratories suggests strongly that fiber hyperplasia contributes to muscle mass increases in adult animals and possibly human athletes.

    Scientists have used three models to study the cellular mechanisms of muscle enlargement: compensatory hypertrophy, stretch, and exercise. Each of these models has provided direct as well as indirect evidence supporting the occurrence of muscle fiber hyperplasia.

    Direct counts of muscle fibers using nitric acid digestion techniques have shown that both exercise and stretch overload result in significant increases (range = 9-52%) in fiber number. Indirect fiber counts using histological cross-sections have suggested fiber hyperplasia (range = 10-82%) in all three models.

    Additionally, the expression of embryonic myosin isoforms have provided indirect evidence for new fiber formation in stretch overloaded muscle. Furthermore, satellite cells have been shown to be involved in muscle fiber hyperplasia in stretch and exercise.


    Muscle fiber splitting in stretch-enlarged avian muscle.
    Antonio J, Gonyea WJ

    Med Sci Sports Exerc 1994; 26:973-7.

    Abstract

    This study examined the role of longitudinal fiber splitting in enlarged anterior latissimus dorsi (ALD) muscle of adult quail. Muscle hypertrophy was induced using a model of progressive stretch overload (PSO) (5).

    After 16 and 28 d of PSO, muscle mass in the stretched ALD muscle increased significantly (P < 0.05) 188% and 294%, respectively, when compared with the intra-animal control muscle. Muscle length increased significantly (P < 0.05) in the stretched ALD muscle vs the intra-animal control by approximately 77% for both groups.

    Fiber number, which was assessed using direct counts after nitric acid digestion, did not change in the 16-d group; however, the 28-d stretched ALD muscle exhibited a 30% increase (P < 0.05) in fiber number vs the intra-animal control muscle.

    Furthermore, the frequency of splitting (i.e., branching) fibers was less than 0.3% in all muscles examined except the 28-d stretched ALD muscle.

    The 28-d stretched ALD muscle had 5.25% of its muscle fibers exhibiting split profiles. These results demonstrate that PSO produces effects unlike chronic stretch overload in that longitudinal fiber splitting may contribute significantly to an increase in fiber number.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lonewolf0420 View Post
    The release of the tissue tension, while rolling, feels great. For me it works great, when I do it. stretches out the tissue in my back and hips. Rolling along the it bands (side of the your thighs) is one of the most painful things I have done to myself, but boy does it feel good to release that tissue.
    Any studies showing increase muscle mass from foam rolling? Any thing showing fascia stretching?

    I've never done foam rolling, but I hear from many folks it is really good...
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    I have no studies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lonewolf0420 View Post
    I have no studies.
    I didn't think there were any, but not an issue IMO, just was curious if anyone had seen something on that. Thx.
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    It really works wonders. What got me started on it was an article in Men's Health about Fascia. It explained about what fascia is and how our whole body is encased in it.

    A lot of the time those "knots" aren't in our muscles but the fascia tissue. The first time I rolled, it was so painful. I always have a lot of tension in my back, hips, and shoulders.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lockxxheed View Post
    i heard its not normal stretching but stretching fascia gives you more room to grow, kinda like filling in your shirt you bought when you were skin n bones. how would this work?
    Google DC Extreme Stretches, or Doggcrapp Stretches. They DO work, they work well, and I do them every workout. They increase flexibility, increase strength, speed up muscle growth, shorten recovery time, and are painful
    Advanced Muscle Science/Forerunner Labs Sponsored Athlete
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    I just started doing this, hopefully it will help me with my lagging biceps. It makes sense, and i rarely stretch, so i hopeing to see some gains from it.
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    I've always wondered if the moa is actually similar to that of occlusion training, but in a more practical way. The research on occlusion training is growing and showing positive signs when it comes to hypertrophy.
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    What is occlusion training?
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    OK, I've never used it and don't know anyone who has but when the stuff came out I was curious, but the guys who abuse it looked stupid and that was my deciding factor. Here's a quote from their site. SEOs help a muscle to break past a plateau (sticking point) by helping the fascia of a muscle stretch.

    The fascia is the sheath of tissue that envelops a muscle. It is also the primary restrictive factor in muscle growth.

    The more flexible the fascia is, the quicker the muscle size will increase. If you see top professional bodybuilders that have muscle gropus that ‘pop’, they have very flexible muscular fascias.

    That was from the Syntherol website.
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    i want to be along for this ride
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    i like
    Quote Originally Posted by alwaysgaining View Post
    I've also done fasting and doseing and felt grealt anabolicness , deffint hunger but I'm stronger than that keep full and vascular and strength gose up
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/177245-swollen87s-training-log.html
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    I have done dc stretching for two years. I did it too far..

    I look forward to getting back to it and not overdoing it

    My goals was to always get stronger in even the stretches every workout, even when it drove my injury deeper and deeper so it took even longer to get over it, stupid idea on my part
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    can you explain how you went too far? did you just stretch too much, or maybe not have a good pump before stretching?
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    Self massage such as foam rolling is great for recovery too.

    Beyond stretching the fascia, it increases blood flow to the area, helps fascilitate venous return (removing blood that has pooled in the lower limbs), and by that mechanism helps to increase waste removal. Kinda a poor mans deep tissue massage. Tennis balls, lacrosse balls, etc. are all great ways to get into hard to reach sports like the vmo, tfl, periformis, and rectus femoris

    Br
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    I havn't looked into stretching to increase muscle size, but I have read numerous studies showing static stretching decreases strength & power output.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    I havn't looked into stretching to increase muscle size, but I have read numerous studies showing static stretching decreases strength & power output.
    In a short time frame.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    I havn't looked into stretching to increase muscle size, but I have read numerous studies showing static stretching decreases strength & power output.
    That's only when done before or during exercise, not after.

    Post workout stretching, especially extreme or weighted stretching, does not decrease strength and power from anything I've seen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastybean View Post
    can you explain how you went too far? did you just stretch too much, or maybe not have a good pump before stretching?
    sure

    I was doing the forearm stretch going heavier each time , even though my inner elbow started hurting. I kept ignoring the pain and doing them untill it was so bad I couldn't do a chinup so i had to quit working out

    also I had a screwed shoulder and would do the back stretch, I did not need to do that with a messed up shoulder.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    That's only when done before or during exercise, not after.

    Post workout stretching, especially extreme or weighted stretching, does not decrease strength and power from anything I've seen.
    The experts seem to disagree, the theory i've seen proposed for this decrease in power & strength is that the muscle is like a rubber band, or spring.

    when it is short, it is more responsive, but stretch it out and it becomes slack, and the responsivness, or potential energy is decreased.

    one of my mentors, a dr in exs physiology, ask the question, "an elite athlete stretches pre & post exercise, and is strong, and fast, but, if he didn't stretch, would he be possibly stronger or faster?"

    thoughts....
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    Power is lost, in part, by "de-sensitizing" the muscle spindle. When the spindle is stretched (especially rapidly) it increases innervation to the muscle. When, due to static stretching, it is pre-stretched, it becomes less sensitive.

    The most important variable, however, is how LONG before training do you stretch, and what type of training are you doing.

    In a typical hypertrophy phase (8-12 reps) stretching immediately before a set really should have little effect. In fact, if you read the post I made, you'll see it may actually benefit hypertrophy by increasing TUT.

    Stretching the hamstrings passively for 30 seconds immediately prior to a clean and jerk, or 100m sprint, however, will reduce power output and could mean the difference between 2 kilos of .12 seconds.

    In addition, there isn't much research to support acute static stretching preventing injury; only chronic static stretching.

    Personally, I perform best after a series of dynamic stretches and mobility drills whether I'm sprinting or lifting.

    Br
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    Power is lost, in part, by "de-sensitizing" the muscle spindle. When the spindle is stretched (especially rapidly) it increases innervation to the muscle. When, due to static stretching, it is pre-stretched, it becomes less sensitive.

    The most important variable, however, is how LONG before training do you stretch, and what type of training are you doing.

    In a typical hypertrophy phase (8-12 reps) stretching immediately before a set really should have little effect. In fact, if you read the post I made, you'll see it may actually benefit hypertrophy by increasing TUT.

    Stretching the hamstrings passively for 30 seconds immediately prior to a clean and jerk, or 100m sprint, however, will reduce power output and could mean the difference between 2 kilos of .12 seconds.

    In addition, there isn't much research to support acute static stretching preventing injury; only chronic static stretching.

    Personally, I perform best after a series of dynamic stretches and mobility drills whether I'm sprinting or lifting.

    Br

    yea, my post was a bit , training for strength & power is a different area than hypertrophy (though they are all connected).

    so in that sense, the idea of this thread does intrest me enough to give it a shot on my current 12 week linear program.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Smeton View Post
    sure

    I was doing the forearm stretch going heavier each time , even though my inner elbow started hurting. I kept ignoring the pain and doing them untill it was so bad I couldn't do a chinup so i had to quit working out

    also I had a screwed shoulder and would do the back stretch, I did not need to do that with a messed up shoulder.
    thanks for the info, i also have a torn ac joint, and need to be careful on my pressing movements, im still going to incorporate, fascia stretching into my workout im just going be carefull. I like it so far though.
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    Foam rolling helps and feels bomb
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    be careful with the ac joint im just getting over that injury the past few months if you dont take it seriously you could be out for a while. if you youtube "shoulder dislocations" you'll find a very good exercise to help with it. i think it was dante from the dc training style who popularized this one but it really does work to relieve pain quickly
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    Quote Originally Posted by amateurfreak View Post
    be careful with the ac joint im just getting over that injury the past few months if you dont take it seriously you could be out for a while. if you youtube "shoulder dislocations" you'll find a very good exercise to help with it. i think it was dante from the dc training style who popularized this one but it really does work to relieve pain quickly
    You'll see some elite javelin throwers who can do these with their hands spaced about a foot apart. I can get my hands to about 28-30" apart, but no closer, and only when I haven't done any pressing or pullups in a week.

    Br
  

  
 

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