from 5x5 to DC
- 12-28-2010, 07:50 AM
from 5x5 to DC
I'm finally moving to DC and need some help from those of u experienced with ith and that have seen the great results its known for. Please critique the workouts I have selected for the bdy parts as recommended for a 3 days a week routine. Also please advise on what the "extreme stretches" are that I have to do per bodypart. I am very excited on how this will affect my strength when coming off of 5x5 I'm very interested in more strength and with it more volume. Thank you guys for all the help.
- 12-28-2010, 08:47 AM
The reason that I chose to start DC is because my main goal is strength building and I've heard that DC is superior to 5x5 in strength and mass gain. Also I have been using 5x5 for a while and think its time to change routines so that I can incorporate muscle confusion. Current stats are: 221lbs @ 6ft1in and abt 15 bmi. My DC is as follows please help with any tips or tricks:
Monday workouts all together
1st (chest)Flat bench press, 2nd Incline smith press, 3rd Decline machine press
1st (shoulder)Overhead press, 2nd machine rear raise, 3rd Barbell shrugs
1st (tricep)Skullcrushers, 2nd close grip bench, 3rd cable rope pulldowns
1st (back width)Bent over rows, 2nd Lat pulldowns, 3rd Dumbell Rows
1st (back thickness)Deadlift, 2nd Cable seated rows, 3rd Tbar rows
Wednesday Workouts all together
1st (bicep) Standing Barbell curls, 2nd Weighted chinups, 3rd Alternating dumbell curls
1st (forearm) Wrist curls, 2nd Reverse wrist curls, 3rd Hammer Curls
1st (calves) Calve Raises, 2nd seated calve raise, 3rd pidgeon toed calve raises
1st (quads) Leg press, 2nd Smith machine Squats, 3rd Front squats
1st (hamstrings) Lying leg curls, 2nd Sitting leg curls, 3rd Lunges
These are the workouts I have chosen for DC and plan to use. If u have ANY suggestions at all please let me know of them including workouts I should change. And please help with "Extreme stretching"
- 12-28-2010, 08:51 AM
Also I kno that it is not the supplement board but I am currently using as far as supps. Orange triad, fish oil, Mass FX, Anabolic pump, and cytogainer as a regular protein. I'm currently on a clean bulk of about 4000 - 4500 cals daily and 300+ pro and really trying to put on that quality weight
12-28-2010, 09:36 AM
Im doing almost this exact same training program now and after my 4th week am seeing amazing results! The workouts look good...got all the major builders in there....but it's more important to focus on form, rep ranges and a proper rest-pause technique. Thats what will really make or break the program. Here is a copy-an-paste of how I learned the proper technique.....
Nutshell: Heavy progressive weights, lower volume but higher frequency of bodyparts hit, multi-rep rest pause training, extreme stretching, carb cuttoffs, cardio, high protein intake and blasting and cruising phases (periodization).
Now to get into specifics regarding training. Stay with me here. You are only doing one exercise per muscle group per day. You are doing your first favorite exercise for chest on day one, you're doing your second favorite exercise for chest the next time chest training rolls around and then your third favorite exercise for chest the time after that when chest training rolls around. Then you repeat the entire sequence again. You're doing the same exercises you would be doing anyway in a 7-14 days time and training chest 3 times in that same period with minimal sets so you can recover. You cannot do a 3-5 exercise, 10-20 set chest workout and recover to train chest again 3-4 days later. It's absolutely impossible!! But you can come in and do 2-5 warmup sets up to your heaviest set and then do ONE working set (either straight set or rest paused) all out on that exercise then recover and grow and be ready again 3-4 days later. This kind of training will have you growing as fast as humanly possible.
DC training consists of one extremely intense workset for each muscle group. for every body part, pick 3 movements which you feel will improve your physique the most, usually compound. every workout, you must strive to either increase the number of reps with the amount of weight you currently use, or increase the amount of weight used. the goal is 10+ reps, done in either a straight-set or rest-pause fashion.
You choose a weight you can get 10 reps on your own, For example a set of hammer strength incline press, which I can get 11 or 12 reps with. Then, I pause and take exactly 15 breaths. I go again and knock out another three or four reps. Fifteen more breaths and now I can only get one or two reps. so far, I have done 15-20 total reps. But even though I can't get any more full reps, I do short one or two-inch partials from the stretch position, the bottom of the rep, until I can't budge it at all.
You're hitting every bodypart twice in 8 days. The volume on everything is simply as many warmup sets as you need to do- to be ready for your ONE work set. That can be two warmup sets for a small muscle group or five warmup sets for a large muscle group on heavy exercise like rack deadlifts. The ONE work set is either a straight set or a rest pause set.
You will be working in a "Blast and Cruise" fashion. Blasting is your phase of brutal, max effort, balls-to-the-wall workouts. Cruising is a phase of either time off or girl scout type workouts where you recover your CNS and prevent overtraining.
As soon as you start feeling those symptoms of overtraining settling in, it's time to Cruise - you should be able to recognize this before beginning the program (which is one reason why new lifters aren't recommended to lift DC style).
Blast Phase: generally 4-8 weeks, till you start to sense any overtraining.
Cruise Phase: generally 2 weeks, time off or girl-scout workouts to let your body recover. I advise taking one week off completely, then a week or two at about 50-65% of the weight you were using. Cruising is a good time to experiment with new exercises you may want to add into your rotation later too.
After Cruise, start next Blast Phase at 90% of the weight you ended the last Blast with.
I believe rest pausing is the most productive way of training ever. I've never seen a way to faster strength gains than what comes from rest pausing. I'll use bench press with a hypothetical weight to show you my recommended way of rest pausing.
Example: Bench Press: 135x12, 185x10, 225x8, 275x6, 305x4 (none of these are taxing -they are just getting you warmed up for your all out working set)
Main Working Set: 355x8 reps (total failure) rack the weight, then 15 deep breaths and 355x 2 to 4 reps (total failure) rack the weight, then 15 deep breaths and 375x 1 to 2 reps.
Explosively do the positive motion and then on the negative resist (control) all on the way. I don't want specific seconds, or a certain time amount, I just want control on the negative to the point if they had to, they could easily reverse direction. They would keep going to the point in the set where they would reach failure, hopefully between rep 7 and 10. At that point, they would take 12-15 deep breaths (usually 22 seconds or somewhere in that area) and then start the exercise again and go to failure once again . Then another 12-15 deep breaths. And then once again to failure. During the rest pauses you do not stay strapped to the bar or anything, you take your 12-15 deep breaths and then get back in there. Oxygen is the key here. What I'm looking for in a rest pause set usually is a 11-15 rest pause total (with 3 failure points in that set). That usually comes out to something like 8 reps (failure) ...12-15 breaths....4 reps (failure)....12-15 breaths.... 2 reps (failure) = 14 rp (hypothetically a total of 11-15 rest paused reps is what Iím after).
Remember every time you go to failure you always finish on the negative portion and then have your training partner help you pull it up fast to rack the weight. To explain further on my first rest pause above I struggled with every iota of my strength to get that 8th rep up. At that point instead of racking the weight up top I brought the weight down to my chest again slowly and had my training partner quickly help me lift the weight back up to the top to rack it. That "always finishing on the negative rep" will accrue more cellular damage over time and allow for even greater
Every exercise is done with a controlled but explosive positive and a true controlled negative phase. The science is there just read it. Almost every study states an explosive positive motion is the priming phase and the negative portion of an exercise should be done controlled and slowly. I hope you develop the mindset that you try so hard to get the weight up only for the sole reason you can lower it slowly to cause eccentric phase cellular damage. It doesnít matter if its 3 seconds lowered or 6 seconds lowered or whatever. Just get to the point where you know you controlled the descent of the weight and at any time you could have stopped and reversed direction if you had to.
Some exercises are done with 2 straight sets to avoid injury (mostly quads and back thickness - squats and deadlifts, other similar exercises). Heavy quad pressing movements would usually be something like 6-8, then a widowmaker (aiming for 20 reps as heavy as you can go). Back thickness lifts (like a deadlift) would be a working set of 3-5, then back off the weight a little for a set of 8-10. The numbers can vary depending on you, and you can do the 4 set first if you like but it should resemble that layout.
Bent row exercises are also done with a straight set, about 12 reps or so.
Calves are done differently - straight set for around 12 reps, sinking deep into the stretch, holding it for 10-15 sec (just count it, but don't be too cheap about it...none of this "ontwthreforiveixseveighninten elevtwelvthirtfourtf ifteen" crap that only last like 4 real seconds).
Most exercises that are rest paused are done anywhere from 11-15 rp to 15-20, or even 30 rp depending on the individual person's preference, what works best for them, and injuries. to put it simply, the fewer the joints, the higher the range for the most part. We will probably be working mostly in the 11-15 or 15-30 range depending on you. For instance, I like to do biceps/triceps in a little higher range to go a little lighter on my elbows.
12-28-2010, 09:42 AM
Here is a breakdown of the stretching part of DC......
Extreme stretching is also a part of the workout - part of it, not in addition to it. These must be done, it's imperative. It stretches fascia and helps recovery immensely. It will dramatically change your physique in a short amount of time if done right, trust me on that. You can do these a couple different ways. You can either do all stretches immediately after your workout, or you can break them up. Some people do the stretch for that body part right after the last set. So chest stretch right after you finish your chest exercise. I like to do my chest, shoulders, triceps, then stretch those three muscle groups before moving on to the two back exercises, then stretching back. On the next day I do the Biceps and forearms, then stretch those muscles before moving on to legs, then I do all my leg stretching when I'm done with those exercises. I like this best and I recommend it to others.
Use dumbbells that are a little over half of what your heaviest set of 6-8 reps would be. On a flat bench, with your chest high and lungs full of air, drop down into the deepest fly you can for the first 10 seconds or so, keeping the dumbells close to your body so you feel the stretch in your chest - NOT your shoulders! Staying in this position, arch your back slightly and try to press your sternum upward. The rest of the 60 seconds, try to concentrate on dropping your elbows farther and farther down (the last 15 seconds are excruciating).
This one is tough to describe. Put a barbell in squat rack shoulder height (or use a smith machine). Face away from it and reach back and grab it palms up (hands on bottom of bar). Walk yourself outward until you are on your heels and the stretch gets painful, then roll your shoulders downward and hold for 60 seconds.
Seated on a flat bench with your back up against the barbell, take a dumbbell in your hand behind your head (like in an overhead dumbbell extension). Sink the dumbbell down into position for the first 10 seconds and then an agonizing 50 seconds slightly leaning back and pushing the dumbbell down with the back of your head.
I'll quote DC directly on this one: "Honestly for about 3 years my training partner and I would hang a 100lb dumbbell from our waist and hung on the widest chinup bar (with wrist straps) to see who could get closest to 3 minutes--I never made it--I think 2 minutes 27 seconds was my record--but my back width is by far my best body part--I pull on a doorknob or stationary equipment with a rounded back now and itís way too hard too explain here--just try it and get your feel for it."
Just like the position for the shoulder stretch, but hold barbell palms down now (hands on top of bar). Now, either sink down with one leg forward/one leg back or better yet squat down and try (I say try because its absolutely excruciating) to kneel. Go down to the stretch that is almost unbearable and then hold that for 45 to 60 seconds. Your own bodyweight is the load. Put the bar at a place on the squat rack in which you can kneel at a severe stretch and then try to sink your ass down to touch your feet. If its too easy, put the bar up to the next rung.
Leg up on a high barbell holding your toe and trying to force your leg straight with your free hand for a very painful 60 seconds.
Facing a barbell in a power rack about hip high, grip it and simultaneously sink down and throw your knees under the barbell and do a sissy squat underneath it while going up on your toes. Then, straighten your arms and lean as far back as you can. 60 seconds and if this one doesn't bring tears to your eyes nothing will. Do this one faithfully and see in 4 weeks if your quads donít look a lot different than they used to.
This is straight from Dante too: "My weak body part that I couldnít get up too par until 2 years ago when I finally thought it out and figured out how to make them grow (with only one set twice a week too). I donít need to stretch calves after because when I do calves I explode on the positive and take 5 seconds to get back to full stretch and then 15 seconds at the very bottom "one one thousand, two one thousand, three one thousand etc" --15 seconds stretching at the bottom thinking and trying to flex my toes toward my shin--it is absolutely unbearable and you will most likely be shaking and wan to give up at about 7 reps (I always go for 12reps with maximum weights)--do this on a hack squat or a leg press--my calves have finally taken off due to this and caught up to the rest of me thank God."
12-28-2010, 09:57 AM
Paging Dr. Banner. . .
12-31-2010, 04:38 PM
I know I'm supposed to beat the logbook but by how much everytime?
12-31-2010, 04:55 PM
12-31-2010, 08:03 PM
Bout how much more weight every time? 5lbs like 5x5? And wat if I can't do it?
12-31-2010, 09:47 PM
Hey bio, send me a PM and I can give you some good info about DC training. I've got a few friends who have had personal consultation with Dante, so I might be able to help you out.
12-31-2010, 10:22 PM
I've been doing Dc Training for about a year. Before that I did 5x5 for about 4 years. My strength is increasing every week. My decline bench is at 595 for 12reps. I couldn't do that with 5x5. The routine you have isn't Dc. Check this out and do it word for word http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=19724
01-01-2011, 11:11 AM
Wait I don't understand. The routine I posted is the exact DC format
01-01-2011, 01:21 PM
I would honestly take out flat bench, as DC never recommends it for this training (too dangerous)
Also, you have no squats? I would swap out one of your quad choices for regular back squats...if you push the numbers up on that you will grow.
For forearms, consider pinwheel curls instead of hammers.
01-01-2011, 01:26 PM
01-01-2011, 04:41 PM
01-02-2011, 07:00 AM
I add smith machine squats because of the recommended. But I don't understand the special rule with back thickness workouts where u don't do a rest pause what are the specific things I have to do for thos workouts
01-02-2011, 07:37 AM
-chest- remove flats(not dc reccomended)
-shoulders-shrugs are not shoulder exercise and direct trap work is not done in dc
-triceps- remove rope pulldowns(you need exercise to move big weight that you can progress on)
-back-id use rows as a thickness exercise get some pull-ups in there
-forearms- remove both or at least 1 wrist curl
i hope this helps you out. as for the stretching print out the stretching exercises they are very helpful. you will love dc
01-02-2011, 12:24 PM
For deadlifts warm up then do 1 heavy all out set of 6-9reps, then rest 3-5 minutes reduce the weight and do one set of 9-12reps.
For quads warm up, do one set of 6-10 reps, rest 3-5 minutes, reduce the weight and then 1 set of 20 reps nonstop.
Theses are too dangerous to rest pause.
Calves hurt like hell but this style of training makes them grow right away.
01-02-2011, 01:00 PM
That sounds rough but fun. How much should I decrease the weight by?
01-02-2011, 01:53 PM
Remember, DC does not use the rest pause for exercises such as free squats or deads, as it is a safety issue. It stresses safety and form rather than the rest pause on these 2. A set of widowmakers is recommended at the end of these 2 lifts(20+ reps set).
01-02-2011, 02:12 PM
01-02-2011, 03:22 PM
01-02-2011, 08:13 PM
I apologize right off the bat for hijacking, but is it recommended to lift 2 days a week or 4? I have read all the articles and many have 4 days a week (every other day) and then there is mon-tues, thurs-fri. Im very interested in DC training but am a little confused by this. Can anyone please shed a little light on this for me? I would love to do it 4 days a week but I think thats just the recovery assessment part of it. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
01-02-2011, 08:34 PM
How much should I decrease when doing my widowmaker set
01-02-2011, 08:53 PM
01-02-2011, 08:59 PM
01-02-2011, 09:02 PM
01-02-2011, 09:30 PM
01-02-2011, 09:41 PM
Actually for advanced Dc training 4 days a week would be like this....
Mon= chest shoulders tris
Tues= biceps forearms back width back thickness
Thurs= calves hams quads
Fri= repeat of Mondays body parts
Mon= repeat Tuesday body parts
Tues= repeat Thursday body parts
01-03-2011, 12:33 PM
The reason I have flat bench as a choice is because I really want to have an impressive flat bench. And I'm pretty sure that doing hammer strength won't transfer over to doing traditional bench press
01-03-2011, 12:59 PM
01-03-2011, 02:18 PM
quick question about DC, do you need to do warm up sets for every muscle group you hit that day? I read the article by DC and I'm not really sure since he just addresses what you're supposed to do when you're warm.
I really don't care for flat bench other than bull****ting 1rpm numbers.
Comic Sans makes me feel gangsta
01-03-2011, 02:32 PM
01-03-2011, 08:51 PM
Just did my first DC couldn't do the stretches for a full minute on some of them. Is that a problem?
01-03-2011, 11:33 PM
Not quite sure but I had the same problem also. Im sure as time goes on, you will be able to. I THINK as long as you get a good stretch and hold it for a bit, you should be fine for the time being. I know my static holds were about 30 seconds and I shakeing like crazy! This is my first week also so im in the same boat.
01-04-2011, 01:17 AM
I use warm up sets on each exercise, but don't fatigue the muscle. - The stretching gets easier, but always sore as hell. As far as flat barbell bench goes... its hard on the shoulders especially when your moving heavy weight. With Dc the strength comes fast so your chances of injury are a lot higher. I do dumbbell flat bench instead. There are times when I like to show off on the bench though.
01-04-2011, 08:52 AM
I didn't do my static holds for 30 seconds either I did them for about 15 tops. And as far as the stretching goes. My muscle was extremely sore until after the stretch the stretches hurt like crazy but once I was done with them the soreness was gone
01-04-2011, 08:54 AM
I didn't do my static holds for 30 seconds I did them for 15 tops was I supposed to go to 30? And about the stretches I was sore right after my lifts like crazy but as soon as I was done with the stretching it all went away. They hurt during the stretch like crazy but weren't sore after is this normal?
01-04-2011, 11:35 AM
01-04-2011, 12:42 PM
I did do 45 on my stretches. I did not do 30 in my static holds tho