- 01-06-2009, 11:46 AM
Knowing that there are countless variables to take into account when striving to gain strength, and LBM, I'm not claiming this is the final word.
That being said...
I personally believe that if someone is having trouble gaining muscle, and they have learned DIET, and at the very least, basic training principles (like progressive overload / avoid overtraining), then their bodies are hormonally deficient in some way. The number one reason would be low FREE testosterone. This could be caused by a myriad of things, including diet, high SHBG, etc.
I think ALOT of people who have low free T believe they are forced to resort to AAS to be able to look and feel the same way as those who have naturally high T levels. Most of the time, it should be possible to increase their free test naturally without having to resort to AAS...
- 01-07-2009, 01:48 AM
i dont avoid overtraining but incorperate it ruteinly
atleast 4 to 5 times a year, your body needs to be brought down to its weekest state then stop rest and grow. i come back stonger every time, incorperating streching and bloodflow type lifts when im in an over traind state really helps me grow
also i dont progressively workout to the point of overtraining but when the gains slow and i platue then is the time to take 1 or 2 days to hevily tax your CNS and whole body, squats usally do the trick along with cleans.
then for about 3 days i carb up and reast streching and runnig (active recovery)
so your saying that free test(low free test) is the direct cause for low strenght
maby high cortisol or other stress related hormones
so insted of takin aas we all need to find away to get fre test pumping?
i have to go but i will be back.
- 01-07-2009, 02:23 AM
Originally Posted by alwaysgaining
01-07-2009, 08:18 AM
Precisely. Many people can disgaree on training ideologies, but if you can't grow then I believe it's hormone, or deficiency related.
I'm not saying AAS use is evil. I just think some people could hold off on using AAS while focusing on boosting their natural test as much as possible... trying everything... diet, sleep, training, supplements, etc.
01-07-2009, 09:21 AM
Personally, I've become convinced that LACK of SLEEP is the single biggest factor with people who aren't aggressively stupid.
If one doesn't get *enough* sleep (either quality OR quantity), cortisol levels (& stress) will soar, and hormone levels/balance will suffer. More kcals, more protein, more supps, more training - none of these will compensate for a shortage of the deep sleep our bodies need to USE all that crap we keep throwing into them.
Great idea for a thread - hope you don't mind me chiming in (love the title, too - I find string theory delightfully irritating)
01-07-2009, 10:17 AM
01-07-2009, 10:51 AM
I agree that it can be done without the use of AAS, there is a definite need for peiodic overtraining to force your body to adapt and combat catabolism on its own hormonally. The stimulus of fast twitch muscle fiber also seems to have a direct effect on the body's level of free testosterone, explosive atheltic activities and training using olympic type movements greatly increase the activated amount of white muscle fiber.
01-07-2009, 11:30 AM
How about a list of the methods you know of for increasing natural test levels?
01-07-2009, 01:14 PM
a few basics:
1) anabolic nutrition-eating and supplementing correctly in order to keep your body in an anabolic state: excess of protein and healthy fats, rely only on carbs post workout.
2) train with heavy compound movements, the more muscle groups activated, the more free test produced.
3) adequate rest 7-9 hours sleep per 24 hour day
4) incorporate explosive athletic movements into your workout routine, lifts such as cleans, snatch, and jerks. Incorporate plyometric movements like box jumps or double leg bounds, and replace long distance cardio with short distance sprints.
5) maintain healthy sexual activity, and yes that includes masterbation, testosterone levels peak/spike during sexual activities.
01-07-2009, 01:34 PM
01-07-2009, 01:57 PM
A japanese study done, claimed a 147% increase in test levels when not ejaculating for 7 days. No further increase was found after 7 days.
Erections supposed boost test, but it plateau's when you get off.
Divanil aka stininging nettle root increases free test by bing with SHGB. Activate Xtreme is a good divanil product.
Higher fat diet with Monosaturated fats, and Saturated fats has been shown to increase test, as well as whole eggs.
Plenty of sleep, and low stress.
01-07-2009, 05:54 PM
01-13-2009, 08:00 PM
Question Regarding Sleep
If 7-9 hours per sleep is what is required for a 24 hour period, is it acceptable to get 6 hours at once, and then 2 later in the day? I am planning a wedding (getting married in October), we just bought our house, a new car, and got a puppy. So talk about stress!!! The puppy has to get up in the middle of the night to be let out, and he seems to always get up 30 minutes before my alarm. Any suggestions to keep my cortisol levels lower?
I'm sure my cort levels are high right now because I also had MAJOR knee surgery for 3rd time in three year and I'm pretty stressed about that.
Sorry not meaning to hijack thread, but I don't hear much talk about sleep related issues here.
I used to be 225 and 11% BF, I'm currently 215 and 15-16% BF. SOOOO I want to reverse this evil trend ASAP. I am lifting and dieting very cleanly right now. Of course I'm only 6 weeks back into lifting, 9 weeks postop.
01-13-2009, 09:05 PM
I have a knee sugery coming up myself. Torn meniscus.
In any case, some people don't need as much sleep, but ideally 7 hours is the least you'd want to get. I can't get away with less than 8 myself.
Eat regularly, evert 3-4 hours. Stimulants increase cortisol. There are some good anti-cort supplements like Endoamp and Lean Xtreme. Don't overtrain.
01-14-2009, 09:36 AM
01-14-2009, 09:48 AM
01-14-2009, 09:52 AM
01-14-2009, 10:04 AM
More anecdotal than anything. Unless you have evidence then what you state will be conjecture also...
01-14-2009, 12:54 PM
01-14-2009, 02:06 PM
01-14-2009, 02:44 PM
01-14-2009, 03:21 PM
But lets get back to your claims, 'cause I'd like to understand if you're just spouting out anecdotal BB lore or if you have a way to back them up.
There is also a different study on this topic in which participants abstaining for three weeks showed elevated levels of testosterone. Anyone here want to abstain for three weeks 'cuz they ain’t growin’…?
01-16-2009, 11:14 PM
a very intriguing topic indeed. What I'm noticing is that the topic is highly debateable, and it's difficult to answer these questions through observation alone. All this uncertainty is undesirable if one is fed-up with not growing. AAS are known to work. Even people with naturally high t levels resort to steroid use because it constitutes a shortcut.
As we all know, sleep and cortisol control became less important for people on cycle. It's just easier to add strength and muscle while "on." I guess what I'm getting at here is... how much more time, effort, and self-experimentation does it take to successfully address without steroids these hormone "deficiencies" to which the OP points as the reason for stalled muscle gains? We can't even isolate a universally successful protocol for accomplishing this task. AAS are universally successful in accomplishing their tasks.
01-16-2009, 11:26 PM
whats your take on genetic limitations? lack of sleep and rest can fall back of improper diet which was thought to be perfect. could just be another vicious circle!
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