Crossfit for size?

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    Crossfit for size?


    Im just curious what you all think about doing Crossfit while trying to gain size. Im 6'1" and around 190 lbs at 6% body fat and would like to get up to about 200 lbs and 4% body fat. I want to do this clean and not have to cut a bunch of fat at the end of a bulk. Would Cross fit be the best option?

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    Crossfit and bulking is an oxymoron.
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    Well not really bulking, but just putiing on like 10 lbs. I know it will take awhile, but i dont want to gain a bunch of weight, then have to try and cut fat off. Id rather just put on clean muscle.
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    Crossfit and bulking is an oxymoron.
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    Quote Originally Posted by t-bone2 View Post
    Crossfit and bulking is an oxymoron.
    I respectfully disagree. If you do crossfit, along with a high protein, high calorie bulking diet IMO it is possible to gain lean muscle and bulk. Are you going to gain as much as doing 5/3/1, or Westside, or a lot of other programs? No, but I think with all the Oly Lifts, in conjunction with bodyweight exercise it can definitely increase overall strength and body composition. When I get home in late February I will be joining a crossfit gym and seeing how my body reacts to it on a high calorie, high supplement diet. Will Log it when I do it as well.
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    You want to drop 3.5lb of fat while also adding 13.5lb of muscle (this will get you from 190 @ 6% to 200 @4%). You're going to need something a lot more structured and planned out than Crossfit. Good luck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigKrabbe View Post
    I respectfully disagree. If you do crossfit, along with a high protein, high calorie bulking diet IMO it is possible to gain lean muscle and bulk. Are you going to gain as much as doing 5/3/1, or Westside, or a lot of other programs? No, but I think with all the Oly Lifts, in conjunction with bodyweight exercise it can definitely increase overall strength and body composition. When I get home in late February I will be joining a crossfit gym and seeing how my body reacts to it on a high calorie, high supplement diet. Will Log it when I do it as well.
    Their "Olympic" lifts are done well out of their intended rep range (1-5). At that point, you're not producing optimal power as fatigue has set in and is hindering technique. I've said it for years and will continue to say it, CF and bulking is an oxymoron.
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    crossfit will decrease bodyfat mass and muscle mass (getting stronger at something does always indicate an increase in muscle mass)

    Unless your on a slew of injectables, then crossfit would work to increase muscle mass
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    Personally, if you want to do this I think alternating would be your best option. Perhaps try a CF while doing a 5x5 3x a week with the Oly Lifts. Its just a suggestion. I am doing a mass cycle atm but I am doing TRX 3-4x a week as well to help burn some extra calories.
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    Crossfit is not for mass by any means.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sluggy View Post
    Crossfit is not for mass by any means.
    Agreed completely, unless you are beginner or a woman who hasn't ever lifted very heavy.

    There is some program (Strength Based CF or soemthing) that focuses on heavy lifts in the 3-5 ranges and then has a few metcons per week which COULD gain some size but thats not really the typical crossfit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Their "Olympic" lifts are done well out of their intended rep range (1-5). At that point, you're not producing optimal power as fatigue has set in and is hindering technique. I've said it for years and will continue to say it, CF and bulking is an oxymoron.
    Absolutely correct

    And I now see way too many people with horrible technique on the oly lifts, which is asking for an injury. I don't know how many ppl I have had to help with this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by connelly22 View Post
    Im just curious what you all think about doing Crossfit while trying to gain size. Im 6'1" and around 190 lbs at 6% body fat and would like to get up to about 200 lbs and 4% body fat. I want to do this clean and not have to cut a bunch of fat at the end of a bulk. Would Cross fit be the best option?
    I'm in agreement with the rest on the issue of crossfit.

    The workouts are not well thought out: there is no attention to stabilizers or fixator muscles, there is no attention paid to form. The physiological objective of crossfit (despite what the gurus say) is fatigue. Fatigue can be a good thing, and yet, can be a debilitating thing. When it comes to olympic land other lifts that require a high degree of technique, spinal stabilization, and velocity of movement, fatigue should NOT be the ojective.
    In fact, in training for neary any sport, fatigue is often a great way to reinforce incorrect form via poor motor programming. Remember, practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.


    So, let me suggest some ideas for your goals:

    Set up a well thought out, periodized hypertrophy training program
    Add conditioning (HIIT) work into it
    Estimate how many calories you need to maintain body weight
    Add an additional 300-500 calories on top of that to fuel growth
    Eat healthy, clean foods: whole grains, lean proteins, vegetables, mono-unsaturated fats, omega-3's etc.
    Keep an eye on the scale and your body fat, and if you are gaining more than a pound a week, cut down on the calories a bit, if you do not gain anyweight after the first month, then increase the cals.

    You're not going (highly unlikely) to gain 13lbs of muscle and drop 5 lbs of body fat naturally; however, you can gain muscle while keeping body fat gain to a minimal, then when you're satisfied with your muscular development, you can cut down on calories, increase the conditioning, drop the body fat and then maintain from there.

    Br
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    Set up a well thought out, periodized hypertrophy training program
    Add conditioning (HIIT) work into it

    ^Takes the cake IMO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Their "Olympic" lifts are done well out of their intended rep range (1-5). At that point, you're not producing optimal power as fatigue has set in and is hindering technique. I've said it for years and will continue to say it, CF and bulking is an oxymoron.

    Actually you have been saying for the most part that crossfit is pretty much useless or bad for you..lol


    Rodja and I oft have difference in opinions on crossfit, but I must agree when it comes to whether or not crossfit is optimal for size because it really isn't. Now if general strength and conditioning was the goal it would be a good option.

    As Zir Red mentioned following a good hypertrophy program would probably be your best option. You could throw a few CF workouts in there as your conditioning (HIIT) workouts of you really want to do CF as well. Just be sure to plan the various workouts appropriately in regards to what you are already doing. For example, if you went heavy on legs such as squats one day, Fran may not be the best CF workout to do the next.
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    None of the crossfitters you see are getting large from doing CF. Don't care what you say. Yes, some of the guys are huge (and ripped) that are involved like Dave Lipson, but what they're doing is following an olympic lifting routine for strength and sometimes picking up on the WOD if it's oriented for oly lifting/strength. If you want to pick up CF to trim up that's fine, but if you're already muscular and are looking to add on lean mass, there are much, much better options out there.
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    I also strongly disagree with everyone who think bulking is impossible with crossfit. I'd like to point out that not everyone is interested in doing bicep curls to get 22 inch arms of skin ripping useless muscle. I'm willing to bet those of you who are against crossfit haven't seen the crossfit games. If you did you would realize that the competitors are not all scrawny guys doing a bunch of kipping pullups. Just look at the bodies of guys like Rich Froning, Jason Khalipa, Dan Bailey, and Marcus Hendren to name a few. These guys are solid muscle. Yes they are now bodybuilders, but like i mentioned earlier sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is not the only means of muscle gain. Crossfit workouts can be tailored to your personal goals. Whether it be getting lean or gaining muscle mass. And another note is that the muscle is built with crossfit. Whether it be doing gymnastics, conditioning circuits, strength training or olympic lifts. That's what crossfit is. A combination of all, it isnt just the light weight conditioning circuits.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgtz View Post
    I also strongly disagree with everyone who think bulking is impossible with crossfit. I'd like to point out that not everyone is interested in doing bicep curls to get 22 inch arms of skin ripping useless muscle. I'm willing to bet those of you who are against crossfit haven't seen the crossfit games. If you did you would realize that the competitors are not all scrawny guys doing a bunch of kipping pullups. Just look at the bodies of guys like Rich Froning, Jason Khalipa, Dan Bailey, and Marcus Hendren to name a few. These guys are solid muscle. Yes they are now bodybuilders, but like i mentioned earlier sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is not the only means of muscle gain. Crossfit workouts can be tailored to your personal goals. Whether it be getting lean or gaining muscle mass. And another note is that the muscle is built with crossfit. Whether it be doing gymnastics, conditioning circuits, strength training or olympic lifts. That's what crossfit is. A combination of all, it isnt just the light weight conditioning circuits.
    Uhh, sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is the definition of mass gains as myofibrillar hypertrophy is not going to do much in terms of LBM gains. I've touched upon this many times, but Crossfit is horribly imbalanced in term of planar focus. Almost everything is focused on vertical flexion/extension whether it be pullups, dips, overhead presses, etc. and the horizontal plane is practically ignored. There are not flat or inclined press and/or any form of rows (I don't mean the conditioning machine), which leads to not only the aforementioned muscular imbalance, but also illustrates one of the many holes in the "theory" behind CF.

    What exactly is done within CF that focuses on either maximal strength development or speed-strength aka the dynamic effort? That's right...nothing. I don't know when it happened, but at some point, all conditioning and/or cross-training became CF, which is total bull****. There is nothing innovative or special about CF outside of their marketing schemes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgtz
    I also strongly disagree with everyone who think bulking is impossible with crossfit. I'd like to point out that not everyone is interested in doing bicep curls to get 22 inch arms of skin ripping useless muscle. I'm willing to bet those of you who are against crossfit haven't seen the crossfit games. If you did you would realize that the competitors are not all scrawny guys doing a bunch of kipping pullups. Just look at the bodies of guys like Rich Froning, Jason Khalipa, Dan Bailey, and Marcus Hendren to name a few. These guys are solid muscle. Yes they are now bodybuilders, but like i mentioned earlier sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is not the only means of muscle gain. Crossfit workouts can be tailored to your personal goals. Whether it be getting lean or gaining muscle mass. And another note is that the muscle is built with crossfit. Whether it be doing gymnastics, conditioning circuits, strength training or olympic lifts. That's what crossfit is. A combination of all, it isnt just the light weight conditioning circuits.
    Holy thread resurrection, digging through those archives.

    Sorry though, when it comes to mass you just won't get it done with pure crossfit. I've gotta tell you Rodja's points are pretty spot on and good luck trying to argue.

    I'm not a fan of "crossfit" (not cross training) but "crossfit" for numerous reasons. Conditioning and cross training as stated by Rodja are nothing new, that's not where the disagreement lies. The practices, program implementation, marketing approaches (specifically how it is marketed to everyone) and varying levels of knowledge base (cf certified through a weekend course, now I can teach and progress Olympic lifts, plyometrics and other technical and complex movements to people who have no business doing them) that fall under the umbrella term "crossfit" these are where a few of the problems with the newest trend lie. You also said it yourself all of the high level competitors train in other manners to achieve their physique and performance and most likely only cross train supplementally with programs that would now be deemed "crossfit" because of the huge/clever marketing movement. So with that said, where does your strong disagreement with what was said come from?
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    Well the whole goal is bad IMO. Being under 10% BF for a time is unhealthy. Yet wanting to drop to 4%. Are you sure your at 6% now? Mr O stage fat% is in the 6-5% range.
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    I think yall are just attacking my argument because I used the term crossfit. I guess the more proper term would have been cross training. I could care less where crossfit originated from or whether it is a new idea or not. My point here is that muscle can be gained through crossfit type training if tailored correctly towards your goals. I know crossfit will not create the most muscular body neither the most muscularly balanced physique. The purpose of crossfit is not to stand in front of judges and look incredibly fit. Im not part of the crossfit community but I do a lot of cross training and I vary my workouts continuously. My workouts are usually structured in the following manner: Power, Stregth, Conditioning. Begininng with olympic lifts, then some sort of squat, deadlift, or pressing movement with either weights, sandbags, or sleds, followed by some sort conditioning circuit usually a crossfit WOD. I am currently on a cutting phase but I have done a bulking phase in the past and I did see gains. I also know a few guys who have made pretty decent gain from a crossfit gym. Like I said, maybe not the type of gains you guys are used to with bodybuilding type routines but they were pretty solid gains. The original poster is asking whether it is possible and I'm here to testify that it is.

    And yes there are a ton of people following crossfit prototypes who will not see any gains whatsoever and maybe end up injuring themselves but you guys act like everyone who steps into a gym and follows a bodybuilding 5 day split ends up looking like Arnold. In anything you do there will always be the most important factor of all which is your individual drive to succeed. Whether that be aiming for a bodybuilding physique or simply a strong solid more athletic physique. It all depends on your own personal dedication, the intensity of your workouts, and your diet. Eat big, get big.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgtz View Post
    I think yall are just attacking my argument because I used the term crossfit. I guess the more proper term would have been cross training. I could care less where crossfit originated from or whether it is a new idea or not. My point here is that muscle can be gained through crossfit type training if tailored correctly towards your goals. I know crossfit will not create the most muscular body neither the most muscularly balanced physique. The purpose of crossfit is not to stand in front of judges and look incredibly fit. Im not part of the crossfit community but I do a lot of cross training and I vary my workouts continuously. My workouts are usually structured in the following manner: Power, Stregth, Conditioning. Begininng with olympic lifts, then some sort of squat, deadlift, or pressing movement with either weights, sandbags, or sleds, followed by some sort conditioning circuit usually a crossfit WOD. I am currently on a cutting phase but I have done a bulking phase in the past and I did see gains. I also know a few guys who have made pretty decent gain from a crossfit gym. Like I said, maybe not the type of gains you guys are used to with bodybuilding type routines but they were pretty solid gains. The original poster is asking whether it is possible and I'm here to testify that it is.

    And yes there are a ton of people following crossfit prototypes who will not see any gains whatsoever and maybe end up injuring themselves but you guys act like everyone who steps into a gym and follows a bodybuilding 5 day split ends up looking like Arnold. In anything you do there will always be the most important factor of all which is your individual drive to succeed. Whether that be aiming for a bodybuilding physique or simply a strong solid more athletic physique. It all depends on your own personal dedication, the intensity of your workouts, and your diet. Eat big, get big.
    I really hate to be that guy, but if your stats are accurate, then you're hardly someone that can testify to the efficacy of CF for "bulking." Also, if you acknowledge that it's far from ideal for a balanced physique, then why would you bother with it? I'm far from a BB'ing supporter as I think that training solely for vanity is pointless, so to throw out the blanket statement that everyone here is backing the BB'er archetype is far from true.

    I've already written as to why CF has become scam marketing and I've yet to here a solid rebuttal. Perhaps you'd like to take that upon yourself to do so?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigAL46 View Post
    Well the whole goal is bad IMO. Being under 10% BF for a time is unhealthy. Yet wanting to drop to 4%. Are you sure your at 6% now? Mr O stage fat% is in the 6-5% range.
    Why exactly is it unhealthy to be sub 10%?

    Also, Mr O would have ~100 pounds on the OP, hardly an ideal comparison.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgtz View Post

    And yes there are a ton of people following crossfit prototypes who will not see any gains whatsoever and maybe end up injuring themselves but you guys act like everyone who steps into a gym and follows a bodybuilding 5 day split ends up looking like Arnold. In anything you do there will always be the most important factor of all which is your individual drive to succeed. Whether that be aiming for a bodybuilding physique or simply a strong solid more athletic physique. It all depends on your own personal dedication, the intensity of your workouts, and your diet. Eat big, get big.
    Above and beyond the drive to succeed is specificity in training. You can have all the drive in the world, but if you are not training toward a goal, then you are spinning your wheels.

    There is no specificity in crossfit, and yet, the proponents of the program are steadfast in claiming it is an end-all-be-all of training. Their idea of specificity is to give it subnames and increase the reps or rest period (i.e.: crossfit endurance, crossfit football). In any case, specificity of training toward a goal is always lacking, and practitioners of it mistake a metabolic challenge with productivity, DOMs with summative results, and post-workout fatigue with performance etc.

    With typical crossfit you create an athlete who can do a little of everything, but excels at nothing. And for those that claim "functionality" this jack-of-all trades contradicts the very essence of functionality. Functional in one sport or event is not functional in another. I.e.: being able to run a 400m in 1:30 after a series of burpees and high-rep cleans is not functional for football. Functional is tailoring the training objectives and goals towards improving performance in something (generally) outside of strength and conditioning, such as improving specific aspects of fitness and translating them towards improved football (or MMA, soccer, etc.) performance.

    Even in non-traditional sports or activities will you ever need to clean and press for high repetitions. And when you do, as we see in the crossfit games and youtube videos, form breaks down quickly and it turns into an demonstration of a series of spinal flexions to extensions. THIS, is anything but functional, as it promotes a risky movement pattern that over many years will result in disk degeneration. For someone who trains crossfit, the poor movement patterns are carried over outside of the gym, resulting in a LOSS of functionality.

    Even the crossfit games is not a valid nor reliable test of various types of fitness......which we can get into later.

    Br
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz

    Why exactly is it unhealthy to be sub 10%?

    Also, Mr O would have ~100 pounds on the OP, hardly an ideal comparison.
    http://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Article...rbodycomp.html

    http://www.humankinetics.com/excerpt...t-and-body-fat

    http://www.livestrong.com/article/28...althy-for-men/

    Not sub 10 but there is a threshold of essential fat I think that's along the lines of what he was saying just happened to pick 10%. The comparison to Mr. O wouldn't be ideal as you said but the ratio of LBM to bodyfat% make it relative.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYiron View Post
    http://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Article...rbodycomp.html

    http://www.humankinetics.com/excerpt...t-and-body-fat

    http://www.livestrong.com/article/28...althy-for-men/

    Not sub 10 but there is a threshold of essential fat I think that's along the lines of what he was saying just happened to pick 10%. The comparison to Mr. O wouldn't be ideal as you said but the ratio of LBM to bodyfat% make it relative.
    Right, but 10% and 5% (the number for men) are leagues apart when you consider the effort and planning required to get to each level. Appreciate the links
    Check your form: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/exercise-science/190675-proper-techniques.html
    Log: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/235436-tossing-weight-torobestia.html
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    Why did I have a feeling you would use my personal stats against me? Sorry I'm not 5'10 220 lbs bro.. But I have put on a good 10 lbs of lean muscle since I started which to me has been a great accomplishment in comparison to how skinny I used to be. And it says here you joined the site in 2006, that means you have quite the experience. You of all people should know that you don't gain 40 lbs of muscle after one bulking season. I've only been training for about 2 years with a ton of breaks in between because working full time and being a full time engineering student sometimes gets a little overwhelming so I'm left with no choice but to set my hobbies aside.

    I will also like to point out that I'm not here to convince any to go join a crossfit gym. Like I said, I don't train in a crossfit gym and neither do I ever plan to do so. Personally I wouldn't pay 100+ a month for someone to tell me how to train. But if someone prefers doing crossfit or crosstraining over bodybuilding and they want to know whether they can gain muscle from doing so I am going to be that one guy who will say that it is possible. Now even with more classical bodybuilding type of training everyone knows that it all comes down to your diet. You can train as hard as you'd like but if you aren't eating the right foods and the right macros then your body simply will not grow. With that being said, you don't need to do endless bicep curls to get big arms. Go outside and pull a heavy sled, climb a rope with no legs, grab some gymnastic rings and try some straight arm work and tell me your arms wont grow with the right nutrition. Now if by crossfit the original poster meant doing the typical WODs of endless burpees followed by muscle ups then box jumps then no, then you are right, you will not grow.

    Now since I know you guys will continue to disagree with my argument I will let you guys be. I just made the account to put in my personal input and say that I was able to gain muscle and strength from training in similar fashion to crossfit even though it wasn't technically crossfit. Of course I was following a very strict bulking diet.

    Best wishes to all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgtz View Post
    Why did I have a feeling you would use my personal stats against me? Sorry I'm not 5'10 220 lbs bro.. But I have put on a good 10 lbs of lean muscle since I started which to me has been a great accomplishment in comparison to how skinny I used to be. And it says here you joined the site in 2006, that means you have quite the experience. You of all people should know that you don't gain 40 lbs of muscle after one bulking season. I've only been training for about 2 years with a ton of breaks in between because working full time and being a full time engineering student sometimes gets a little overwhelming so I'm left with no choice but to set my hobbies aside.

    I will also like to point out that I'm not here to convince any to go join a crossfit gym. Like I said, I don't train in a crossfit gym and neither do I ever plan to do so. Personally I wouldn't pay 100+ a month for someone to tell me how to train. But if someone prefers doing crossfit or crosstraining over bodybuilding and they want to know whether they can gain muscle from doing so I am going to be that one guy who will say that it is possible. Now even with more classical bodybuilding type of training everyone knows that it all comes down to your diet. You can train as hard as you'd like but if you aren't eating the right foods and the right macros then your body simply will not grow. With that being said, you don't need to do endless bicep curls to get big arms. Go outside and pull a heavy sled, climb a rope with no legs, grab some gymnastic rings and try some straight arm work and tell me your arms wont grow with the right nutrition. Now if by crossfit the original poster meant doing the typical WODs of endless burpees followed by muscle ups then box jumps then no, then you are right, you will not grow.

    Now since I know you guys will continue to disagree with my argument I will let you guys be. I just made the account to put in my personal input and say that I was able to gain muscle and strength from training in similar fashion to crossfit even though it wasn't technically crossfit. Of course I was following a very strict bulking diet.

    Best wishes to all.
    Why do you keep bringing up bb'ing? My background is certainly not in that area (I haven't done curls in over a decade) and a lot on this board are not bb'ers either. Diet is key with any training...

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigAL46
    Well the whole goal is bad IMO. Being under 10% BF for a time is unhealthy. Yet wanting to drop to 4%. Are you sure your at 6% now? Mr O stage fat% is in the 6-5% range.
    I think your numbers are off,
    I've been under 10% body fat for most of my life,
    And my health is pretty optimal.
    Peace
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYiron View Post
    http://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Article...rbodycomp.html

    http://www.humankinetics.com/excerpt...t-and-body-fat

    http://www.livestrong.com/article/28...althy-for-men/

    Not sub 10 but there is a threshold of essential fat I think that's along the lines of what he was saying just happened to pick 10%. The comparison to Mr. O wouldn't be ideal as you said but the ratio of LBM to bodyfat% make it relative.
    The way he worded it was that sub 10% was unhealthy and he couldnt understand why he would want to drop to 4%, as that would be even unhealthier. But ~5%+ is ok. Would still have enough essential fat for vitamin storage etc.

    And also being 280lbs and trying to drop to 4-5% bf is very hard, and would probably require anabolics to reach, in fact i doubt anyone could reach around 280lbs without them
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Uhh, sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is the definition of mass gains as myofibrillar hypertrophy is not going to do much in terms of LBM gains. I've touched upon this many times, but Crossfit is horribly imbalanced in term of planar focus. Almost everything is focused on vertical flexion/extension whether it be pullups, dips, overhead presses, etc. and the horizontal plane is practically ignored. There are not flat or inclined press and/or any form of rows (I don't mean the conditioning machine), which leads to not only the aforementioned muscular imbalance, but also illustrates one of the many holes in the "theory" behind CF.

    What exactly is done within CF that focuses on either maximal strength development or speed-strength aka the dynamic effort? That's right...nothing. I don't know when it happened, but at some point, all conditioning and/or cross-training became CF, which is total bull****. There is nothing innovative or special about CF outside of their marketing schemes.
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    The only use I would every have for a "crossfit style" workout would be as a conditioning tool maybe 2 times a week. This would be as a supplement to heavy weight training.
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    Have a friend that is a CrossFit coach. Even he says CF will NOT get you big. He's 5'8 165ish and very strong for his size...but really, the goal of crossfit is not to get big. I'm really not sure what the goal of CF is. Honestly, the only reason I would ever consider doing CF is.....well, wait. I would never consider doing CF.

    Except...honestly I contemplated doing some crossfit to get my body prepared for the zombie apocalypse....as it trains for fatigue I thought that might work. But then I realized if I wanted to do that, I'd be better off doing parkour. Then I realized, I have a **** ton of guns and ammo, I'm good.
    Last edited by TruthWalker; 09-19-2012 at 05:29 PM. Reason: grammar...wording...something like that
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    You will get some size but not so much...sstick to a more bodybuilding program
    Want to handstand like bruce lee?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Crossfit and bulking is an oxymoron.
    Quote Originally Posted by t-bone2 View Post
    Crossfit and bulking is an oxymoron.
    Negative to both. First off CrossFit can and is, on a daily ****ing basis, molded to the athlete for what he wants out of it. At its core, yes I'll agree that it would be hard to bulk, but not impossible. However, planned correctly and then watering and feeding onself properly, it would not be hard at all. Case in point..google: Jason Khalipa, Rob Orlando.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehulk0316 View Post
    Negative to both. First off CrossFit can and is, on a daily ****ing basis, molded to the athlete for what he wants out of it. At its core, yes I'll agree that it would be hard to bulk, but not impossible. However, planned correctly and then watering and feeding onself properly, it would not be hard at all. Case in point..google: Jason Khalipa, Rob Orlando.
    Molded toward WHAT athlete? The abuse of olympic lifts and plyometrics aside, crossfit is not tailored toward any specific athlete. There is no specificity. That's one of my biggest qualms with it. The utter lack of specificity, and this close minded dogma that when you talk about specificity, periodization, or peaking, the crossfit ostrich sticks his head in the sand.

    Planned correctly for hypertrophy and it would no longer be crossfit. Planned correctly for strength and it would not be crossfit. And planned correctly for footbal (despite the cf football site), and it would not look much like crossfit. You can do that by inserting nearly any sport or goal in there.

    Sure, its fine for conditioning. But if your goal is to improve specific performance, it is no longer applicable.

    Br
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED

    Molded toward WHAT athlete? The abuse of olympic lifts and plyometrics aside, crossfit is not tailored toward any specific athlete. There is no specificity. That's one of my biggest qualms with it. The utter lack of specificity, and this close minded dogma that when you talk about specificity, periodization, or peaking, the crossfit ostrich sticks his head in the sand.

    Planned correctly for hypertrophy and it would no longer be crossfit. Planned correctly for strength and it would not be crossfit. And planned correctly for footbal (despite the cf football site), and it would not look much like crossfit. You can do that by inserting nearly any sport or goal in there.

    Sure, its fine for conditioning. But if your goal is to improve specific performance, it is no longer applicable.

    Br
    I'm surprised that with your education and background you wouldn't be more open to that thought. I frankly don't care if you believe or not or what you qualm with "it" is. I use it daily on myself and have seen and coached athletes in several different modalities to their SPECIFIC goal. But I guess maybe empirical (instead of skepticism and negative press) evidence isn't enough for you. Someone with a CSCS from NSCA should be a little more open.
    - Nick
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehulk0316 View Post
    I'm surprised that with your education and background you wouldn't be more open to that thought. I frankly don't care if you believe or not or what you qualm with "it" is. I use it daily on myself and have seen and coached athletes in several different modalities to their SPECIFIC goal. But I guess maybe empirical (instead of skepticism and negative press) evidence isn't enough for you. Someone with a CSCS from NSCA should be a little more open.
    That's the problem, there is no empirical evidence. Its all anecdotal. If you attempt to discuss the theoretical or application flaws the response is always n=1.

    My education and experience has given me the ability to critically evaluate strength and conditioning programs. And when I evaluate the use of crossfit for sports it turns up a number of potential issues. Some performance compromising, like ignoring training specific energy systems and movements; some more severe, such as increased risk for injuries due to over use and imbalanced exercise selection.

    Br
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED

    That's the problem, there is no empirical evidence. Its all anecdotal. If you attempt to discuss the theoretical or application flaws the response is always n=1.

    My education and experience has given me the ability to critically evaluate strength and conditioning programs. And when I evaluate the use of crossfit for sports it turns up a number of potential issues. Some performance compromising, like ignoring training specific energy systems and movements; some more severe, such as increased risk for injuries due to over use and imbalanced exercise selection.

    Br
    We can agree to disagree, my man. I KNOW and have the effects of Crossfit + Westside on a "plandomization" cycle. To the OP, all I'm saying is it works and can be done with smart training. The issue is I have seen more **** CrossFit programs than good ones. But good ones are out there: The Outlaw Way, CF Invictus, Catalyst Athletics, BlackBox S&C, Optimum Performance Training, CF New England, CF Conquest...all those are good jumping points.
    - Nick
    "If you look like food, you're gonna get eaten...Don't look like food."
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehulk0316 View Post
    I'm surprised that with your education and background you wouldn't be more open to that thought. I frankly don't care if you believe or not or what you qualm with "it" is. I use it daily on myself and have seen and coached athletes in several different modalities to their SPECIFIC goal. But I guess maybe empirical (instead of skepticism and negative press) evidence isn't enough for you. Someone with a CSCS from NSCA should be a little more open.
    If you didn't care, then why did you bump this thread to state your opinion? CF has become purely a marketing tactic as the original foundations have been watered down by the exited and/or expelling of several of the key influences, not to mention the ridiculous amount of boxes that are now out there. It's kinda funny that you bring up a CSCS as one of the best pieces of information found within the text is the energy systems and their applications as it is something that CF grossly ignores. When their is a CF guy that breaks some world and/or federation records on any of the power and/or Olympic lifts, then let me know. Until then, it is and will remain an ambiguous, vague term that is thrown around without any real definition to it.
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