Push Press Question

[GXbcmFTO]

I do push presses on a regular basis during my circuit workouts and have been told that I should not be doing a couple things that I do while I perform this lift.

1. not to squat as low as I do (bring legs to a 90d angle)

2. not to do the press from behind my neck

I enjoy this lift a lot, I also like to go down to a 90g angle and burst up, using the momentum to push the weight out of the "behind my neck" range and complete the lift with my shoulders.

I rather do the lift from behind my neck because the weight is more stable during the squat and it seems to add more momentum than doing them from the chest. Doing the excercise this way in conjunction with my circuit workouts totally kicks my ass, and I love it.

Any Advice?

~GX

[Resolve]

I've done push presses behind the neck, but with a snatch-grip and light weight - it hits the medial delts harder than any lateral raise. For a standard grip though, I'd say that is a bad angle for your neck and go in front of your head.

As for dropping to 90 degree knee flexion, I think that technically would qualify the lift as a "jerk" as the majority of your lifting power is coming from the upward thrust of your legs. Someone with more powerlifting lingo knowledge would be able to better tell you, but either way, it's a good lift.

[crazilyfter42]

I dont see a problem with bringing it behind your head/neck. Whether that affects the definition of a push press I dont know. Thats how I do my military presses instead of infront. Just becareful not to go down to far when bringing the weight behind hour head or you may injure your shoulders.

[Resolve]

Part of a push press is to rack it across the shoulder, that's why behind the neck poses a problem. BTN military is fine when, as you say, you watch your ROM, but for a normal grip push press, not so much.

[GXbcmFTO]

I do rack the weight across my shoulders as you would do in a normal Back Squat, and my grip is right where it would be while doing a normal Back Squat as well (just a fist wider than shoulders). I usually only do about 115-135 with this weight because if I do any more my circuits would go in the crapper.

Also, I have felt no discomfort while doing this movement.

It may be classified as something other than a push press, but I still think it is a great compound movement that has a lot of benefits.

Thanks for the reply's!
~GX

EDIT: Just to give you a sample of how it is worked into my circuits:

Circuit Day 1:

Flat (Db) Press (12-15 reps)
*10sec rest
Leg Press (12-15 reps)
*10sec rest
(Bb) Bent-over Row (Palms Down) (12-15 reps)
*10sec rest
Back Extension (15 reps)
*10sec rest
Weighted Decline Sit-ups (15 reps)
*2 min rest*
(Bb) Push Press (15-20 reps)
*10sec rest
Leg Press (15-20 reps)
*10sec rest
Chin-up (Palms Up) (15-20 reps)
*10sec rest
(Bb) Romanian Deadlift (15-20 reps)
*10sec rest
Reverse Crunches (20 reps)
[B]*2 min rest* Then Start Over (2-3 complete circuit sets)[/B]


Circuit Day 2:

Incline (Db) Press (12-15 reps)
*10sec rest
(Db) Jump Lunges (20 reps alternating/10 each side)
*10sec rest
(Bb) Bent-over Row (Palms Up) (12-15 reps)
*10sec rest
Reverse Hyperextensions (12-15reps)
*10sec rest
Kneeling Cable Crunches (20 reps)
*2 min rest*
(Bb) Push Press (15-20 reps)
*10sec rest
(Db) Walking Lunges (20 reps alternating/10 each side)
*10sec rest
Pull-Up (15-20 reps)
*10sec rest
(Bb) Romanian Deadlift (15-20 reps)
*10sec rest
Cable Woodchops (20 reps alternating/10 each side)
[B]*2 min rest* Then Start Over (2-3 complete circuit sets)[/B]

[Highlanda01602]

Nice circuit there...

You are doing a push press, but you're also doing what sounds to be a full back squat. Nothing wrong with that. A better word to describe your lift would be a back "Thruster". A thruster is a front squat into a push press. This is just simply from your back, which is absolutely fine.

Your first concern was about going to deep. For maximum power in the push press, it is a slight dip and an explosive elastic response you get coming back up. Going deep is not "wrong", but rather just going to be more work getting overhead. And in order for it to be deemed officially a push press, once you come up and lock the knees out to initiate the push, you cannot flex the knees until overhead lockout. If you drop underneath the bar, ie bent knees, that would be the jerk,

Your second concern was about going behind the neck. Shoulder flexibility is an issue, especially when moving at intensive speeds such as a conditioning workout. If you have total control over the weight, and the shoulder flexibility to boot, your good to go. Nothing wrong with push pressing or push jerking from the back - more people actually seem to be able to move more weight from the back than from the front.

[GXbcmFTO]

Awesome, thanks for all the info!

~GX

[MoTiV]

I've done push presses behind the neck, but with a snatch-grip and light weight - it hits the medial delts harder than any lateral raise.

The snatch grip sounds cool like you said for hitting your medial delts but does the bar have to be behind the head?

[Joshua86]

The push press is a cheating movement. It's an overhead pressing movement with the benefit of allowing you to call in other muscles to aid in the lift. The purpose of this lift, just like any other cheating lift, is to use just enough help from your other muscles to get the weight overhead, but making your shoulders work as hard as possible to lift the weight. This allows you to use more weight than usual, or to keep going after you've already become fatigued with strict presses.

By bending the legs down as far as you do, it sounds like you're trying to make it a leg exercise as well. Push presses are like any other cheating movement; you use just enough help from the other muscles to complete the lift.

[Highlanda01602]

The push press is a cheating movement. It's an overhead pressing movement with the benefit of allowing you to call in other muscles to aid in the lift. The purpose of this lift, just like any other cheating lift, is to use just enough help from your other muscles to get the weight overhead, but making your shoulders work as hard as possible to lift the weight. This allows you to use more weight than usual, or to keep going after you've already become fatigued with strict presses.

By bending the legs down as far as you do, it sounds like you're trying to make it a leg exercise as well. Push presses are like any other cheating movement; you use just enough help from the other muscles to complete the lift.

Since when is using your entire body "cheating?" I suppose the clean, the jerk, the snatch, ie all olympic weightlifting, ie what starting it ALL, is cheating? Your slapping yourself in the face here.

If you set out to train the overhead press, and you push press, then you're not doing the overhead press. Simple as that. I suppose in your "book" of bodybuilding that push pressing *could* be deemed cheating if claiming it to be an overhead press. You really shouldn't classify a power movement with cheating - that's an insult to everything that has preceded you. In truth, the push press is far more functional than a strict press.

[Joshua86]

Since when is using your entire body "cheating?" I suppose the clean, the jerk, the snatch, ie all olympic weightlifting, ie what starting it ALL, is cheating? Your slapping yourself in the face here.

If you set out to train the overhead press, and you push press, then you're not doing the overhead press. Simple as that. I suppose in your "book" of bodybuilding that push pressing *could* be deemed cheating if claiming it to be an overhead press. You really shouldn't classify a power movement with cheating - that's an insult to everything that has preceded you. In truth, the push press is far more functional than a strict press.

I was saying that the Push Press was an intentional cheat movement; a lift that would fall into the same category as say, cheat curls. You're supposed to use "as little" assistance from the other muscles aside from the shoulders and triceps. The whole point is to make the shoulders work as hard as possible, or to keep going after more strict movements have already fatigued the targeted muscles. While lifts such as clean and press are intended to work multiple muscle groups (intentionally). Push presses are a movement to develop total body power, and to blast the shoulders and triceps, not the legs, which you may use to provide some momentum to complete the lift (cheating). So obviously since you're calling other muscles into play, they are going to be stimulated to an extent, but they're not explicitly targeted in the movement. So when I say cheating, I don't mean it in a derogatory way... The whole purpose of the lift is to allow you to use more weight than you would normally be able to lift in a strict press, therefore, the whole purpose is to cheat!

[MoTiV]

Although I don't deem the tone of Highlanda's reply necessary I do have to agree with everything he said. The push press falls into a category of training that increases "functional" strength, power, speed, and coordination.

Unfortunately those with limited knowledge of different types of weight training, usually those who train "like" bodybuilders, have a certain way of showing a negative bias against these exercises.

What you are doing is not a traditional Push Press, that part is obvious. That is not to say that what you are doing is not beneficial in your training regimen. It just means you don't have anyone else to confer to as far as exercise mechanics. Because of this I would advise caution in using heavy loads (>70%).

The behind the head push kind of freaks me out but I do two exercises while warming up for the snatch called "Press Under" and "Quick Drop" both of which the bar is placed behind the head. However I use extremely light weight.

[Highlanda01602]

I was saying that the Push Press was an intentional cheat movement; a lift that would fall into the same category as say, cheat curls. You're supposed to use "as little" assistance from the other muscles aside from the shoulders and triceps. The whole point is to make the shoulders work as hard as possible, or to keep going after more strict movements have already fatigued the targeted muscles. While lifts such as clean and press are intended to work multiple muscle groups (intentionally). Push presses are a movement to develop total body power, and to blast the shoulders and triceps, not the legs, which you may use to provide some momentum to complete the lift (cheating). So obviously since you're calling other muscles into play, they are going to be stimulated to an extent, but they're not explicitly targeted in the movement. So when I say cheating, I don't mean it in a derogatory way... The whole purpose of the lift is to allow you to use more weight than you would normally be able to lift in a strict press, therefore, the whole purpose is to cheat!

So.... Yeah

My bad for blowing up there a bit. In retrospect, I now understand what you were implying. Sorry for the misunderstanding!

[Joshua86]

My bad for blowing up there a bit. In retrospect, I now understand what you were implying. Sorry for the misunderstanding!

It's all good bro! The bottom line is that we both agree on the benefits of the lift, and that's what counts.