Starting HST soon...

  1. New Member
    ex_banana-eater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    369
    Rep Power
    330
    Level
    19
    Lv. Percent
    28.5%

    Starting HST soon...


    has anyone on this board had any good experience with it? Or at least read it and thought it was sound? It seems much better than conventional type routines theoretically. I like the idea of keep your muscles in a positive nitrogen balance almost all week instead of just 36 hours.

    Right now I am doing the strategic deconditioning phase where I sit back and do nothing... it's getting to me though, because I like to excercise. My routine is almost the same as their sample routine, here is their sample routine. I wont be doing leg press since I dont have one, I will do squats.

  2. New Member
    pogue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    425
    Rep Power
    14010
    Level
    19
    Lv. Percent
    9.14%

    got a link or some reading material?

    do you do each body part each week? or do you do all that in one day?
  3. New Member
    SteveDFW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Age
    50
    Posts
    174
    Rep Power
    234
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    73.23%

    Yes, I have done several cycles of it and like it. It will take a couple cycles to get it all worked out though, so do not give up. HST works well with the 2 to 3 weeks cycles of PH/PS/AAS as well. On a 2 week cycle, you cycle your stuff on the last week of 10's and the first week of 5's and on a 3 week cycle take them on both weeks of 10's and the first weekof 5's.

    If you decide to do a 4 week cycle, I would do it on the last week of 15's, both 10's and the first week of 5's.

    You can also extend a cycle with two weeks each of 15/12/10/8/5/neg. I did this once but found it very hard on the body but got results.
    •   
       

  4. Senior Member
    sage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Age
    33
    Posts
    1,606
    Rep Power
    956
    Level
    33
    Lv. Percent
    49.87%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    on a personal note, i could never do a workout program of this structure. not bashing it in any way (seems to be there is reasoning behind its goals) but having always worked a muscle group hard for one day in a span of 5-7 day cycle, ive gotten so used to pumping up a certain body part that lets say...i go do one set of squat and 2 sets for hams(sdl), i just couldnt see myself able to stop until i got atleat 4 more sets in. a routine one chooses should be more about the results they obtain from them but for me, its an equal blend of results and comfort. Sage
  5. New Member
    SteveDFW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Age
    50
    Posts
    174
    Rep Power
    234
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    73.23%

    Originally posted by sage
    on a personal note, i could never do a workout program of this structure. not bashing it in any way (seems to be there is reasoning behind its goals) but having always worked a muscle group hard for one day in a span of 5-7 day cycle, ive gotten so used to pumping up a certain body part that lets say...i go do one set of squat and 2 sets for hams(sdl), i just couldnt see myself able to stop until i got atleat 4 more sets in. a routine one chooses should be more about the results they obtain from them but for me, its an equal blend of results and comfort. Sage
    Sage, I agree with you it is hard to psychologically make a change this radical. I have been training for 20 years and have done must of the programs out there at one time or another.

    Right now at 38 years old, I am enjoying HST, making some good gains and it fits nicely into my scheule at the moment.

    I am posting the latest HST Newsletter and the site that gives some information on it.

    HST INFORMATION:
    http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_index.html

    HSN/HST Articles by Bryan Haycock
    http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/articles.html

    NEWSLETTER #6 by Bryan Haycock:
    Is HST Actually Different From Other Programs?

    This is a very good question and one that deserves to be answered, without simply zealously defending the premise that is being questioned. This makes for a very bad circular argument that can be VERY frustrating for people with skeptical, though honest, questions.

    First, let's start with what isn't different about HST compared with previous training programs. The length of this list is what has raised this question in the first place, and justifiably so. Let's begin with the "concepts" and then follow with the "methods".

    Pre-existing Scientific Concepts of Weight Training Found in HST

    Stimulus Leads to Adaptation (cause and effect
    Specific Adaptation to Implied Demands (SAID) or simply "Specificity"
    Progressive Resistance
    Some relationship between Time and Tension
    Diminishing Returns

    Pre-existing Methods of Weight Training Found in HST

    Traditional Weight Lifting Movements both compound and isolation (squat, bench, curls, etc)
    Training the whole body 3 times per week
    Altering weight loads used over time
    Altering the number of repetitions used over time
    Doing eccentric reps (negatives)

    There has not ever been a weight training program that did not incorporate or mention at least most of these Concepts, and at least some of these Methods. Entire books (big books) have been written to explore these concepts and teach these methods. Whenever research was required, like for a textbook, you would find "strength and conditioning" research sited to support the validity of the concepts and virtues of each particular training method. The studies used "strength" and other "performance indicators" as a measure of whether the concept and/or method were valid.

    This has been perfectly sufficient for nearly everybody including trainers, teachers, professors, coaches and athletes, who have ever lifted a weight. For those who this wasn't sufficient, they simply explored other methods for steadily increasing body mass, I'm referring specifically to hormones.

    The exploration of the hypertrophic effects of hormones began in the 50s and has continued unabated every since. Today, a competitive bodybuilder considers himself conservative if he only uses 1 gram of Testosterone per week. Lest I digress, we are not including the effects of androgens and other drugs in this discussion. That is a different issue with concepts and methods specific to the pharmacology and endocrinology of hormones and muscle tissue.

    Now let's consider the concepts and/or principles or beliefs of traditional weight training that HST refutes. These are the concepts that the new research refutes most specifically.

    Pre-existing Concepts that HST Refutes:

    A muscle must be fully recovered before you should train it again.
    You should not train a muscle that is sore (DOMS, not injury).
    You must never train a muscle on consecutive days. (i.e. train the same muscle everyday)
    The concept of "Overtraining" in general as it applies to bodybuilding.
    You must train with maximum "intensity" to elicit significant muscle growth.
    You should not use eccentric training on a "frequent" basis.
    You must change your exercise selection regularly in order to "confuse the muscle" into continued growth.
    You must hit a muscle at every angle in order to adequately train it.
    Muscle Fatigue is the primary indicator of having triggered the growth signal
    You must effectively isolate a muscle in order to train it effectively.
    You can train a muscle in such as way as to change its natural shape.
    Pre-existing Methods and/or practices that HST Refutes:

    Training a muscle no more than once or twice per week.
    Training less frequently as your "intensity" increases.
    Adding weight only when you can complete a certain number of additional reps at that weight. (This is a fundamental difference!)
    Training to failure every set and/or workout (If you don't how would you know if you can perform additional reps at that weight yet?)
    Forced reps
    Performing several "obligatory" exercises per body part per workout
    Performing multiple exhaustive sets per exercise
    Changing exercises to "confuse" the muscle.
    The above erroneous concepts/beliefs and the methods/practices they engender are the cause of all the confusion and different training programs out their today. Most all of it stems from bodybuilding magazines fabricating these concepts and practices to address their ongoing need for new content each month and to conceal the use of drugs required to attain the level of mass flaunted by the sponsored models. By limiting your study of muscle growth to these magazines you will be ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. But that is an issue to be addressed elsewhere.

    Now, there is one traditional concept with its associated methods and practices that often make HST appear to be like previous programs. That is the concept of "periodization".

    We will only briefly discuss the topic of periodization, as only a brief treatise will be sufficient to show the differences between periodization and HST. For more detailed discussions of periodization you are advised to read "Super Training: Special Strength Training for Sporting Excellence" by Siff & Verkhoshansky, "Special Strength Training" by Verkhoshansky, "Fundamentals of Sport Training" by Matveyev and "Science and Practice of Strength Training" by Zatsiorski.

    Traditional concepts of periodization are based on methods used to manipulate intensity (i.e. work and/or load), volume and frequency in order to manage CNS fatigue and adaptability in athletes. To date, the art of periodization has entered the mathematical age and significant progress is being made in modeling systems designed to predict CNS fatigue and changes in the individual's fitness level. (1,2,3). Once an individual familiarizes him or herself with the true concept of periodization, they will immediately see the difference between Strategic Deconditioning and Periodization for strength training.

    For example, here are a few differences between SD and Periodization:

    SD is used to decrease fitness level (A.K.A. conditioning).
    Periodization is used to increase fitness level.

    SD is used to increase the micro trauma associated with training.
    Periodization is used to decrease the trauma associated with training.

    SD is used to reduce work capacity.
    Periodization is used to increase work capacity.

    SD is applied irrespective of the need for "rest".
    Periodization according to the need for rest.

    SD is not based on "peaking" performance.
    Periodization's sole purpose is to allow the athlete to peak on a specific date.

    So, when people ask, "What's different about HST?", tell them plenty! And its those differences that make HST superior to any other bodybuilding training method existing today.



    Additional Reading:

    1: Pichot V, Busso T, Roche F, Garet M, Costes F, Duverney D, Lacour JR, Barthelemy JC. Autonomic adaptations to intensive and overload training periods: a laboratory study. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2002 Oct;34(10):1660-6.

    2: Busso T, Benoit H, Bonnefoy R, Feasson L, Lacour JR. Effects of training frequency on the dynamics of performance response to a single training bout. J Appl Physiol. 2002 Feb;92(2):572-80.

    3: Busso T, Denis C, Bonnefoy R, Geyssant A, Lacour JR. Modeling of adaptations to physical training by using a recursive least squares algorithm. J Appl Physiol. 1997 May;82(5):1685-93.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    HS:Report is a free, subscription-based email publication from HSN written by Bryan Haycock
  6. Senior Member
    sage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Age
    33
    Posts
    1,606
    Rep Power
    956
    Level
    33
    Lv. Percent
    49.87%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    no doubt that the reasoning and bases behind a program like HST are sound. I can see it be a good change from any routine (even someone who has used a certain style for awhile) The idea of the whole body cycling workout to me is one anyone can incorporate at a point in their training lives but for me, now....i just cant see myself breaking away from current and past trends. Also another thing that puts a wrinkle into a one day on/off/on/off/on schedule is that im a dude that loves to lift at minimum 4 times a week but mostly 5/7 days with a 2 on, 1 off, 3 on, 1 off. But hey, im sure i could get used to a change here and there. Always interested to read up on new techniques.
  7. Senior Member
    Biggs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    1,285
    Rep Power
    787
    Level
    30
    Lv. Percent
    49.4%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Interesting bro.. I don't like it... but interesting

    I always prefer once every five days or so with higher set volume. Personally, couldn't get behind going in every other day for a pair of sets on the same bodypart, as one or two sets for ten reps does not do diddly **** for me, assuming of course that intensity is the same regardless. Not everyone can do one or two working sets (Mentzer, Yates) and fatigue the muscle enough to stimulate optimal growth in my opinion. Of course, Yates and Arnold are the two types of extremes, and most fall somewhere in between. If HST is doing well for you bro that's great, keep it up for sure.
  8. New Member
    crashtestdummy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    14
    Rep Power
    153
    Level
    3
    Lv. Percent
    82.75%

    I have tried two cycles of HST last summer with great results. Most notably my strength as the system builds up to a plateau at the last weeks.

    The strength increase really showed when I started my second cycle as all my poundages went up.

    It was a much needed change from the normal body part split routine I was doing.

    The program ask you to do 15 rep sets/2 weeks which comes to 6 total body workouts progressing in weight at each session until your max at the last one using that rep range.

    Then 2 weeks of 10 rep/sets, 5 rep/sets and then 3 plus cheat/neg reps optional.

    Note that most exercise calls for a high rep warm-up set which should be sufficient to give your workout a decent pump and to prevent injury.

    *The key I believe with this system is not to overstress your CNS at every single workout but still stimulate your muscle progressively to adapt.*

    Make sure not to do more sets or more weight then prescribed. It's the anticipation and progression that makes you hungry and motivated for the next workout.

    Give it a try if you are bored with your present routine or if you have hit a plateau.
  9. New Member
    ex_banana-eater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    369
    Rep Power
    330
    Level
    19
    Lv. Percent
    28.5%

    From what I understand, (only been reading for the last few days) that rep numbers don't really matter. That is like turning a qualitative property into a quantitative property. It is all mechanical load. It must increase.


    But just say I am giving aproximate numbers...

    How would a 15, 12, 10, 8, 6, 5, Neg/ Scheme look like. With one week for each?

    Or would it be preferable to do 15 , 10, 8, 5 two weeks each (maybe throw in negatives although I don't like them because I haven't gotten that great of results previously)
  10. New Member
    weissmuller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Age
    28
    Posts
    56
    Rep Power
    174
    Level
    7
    Lv. Percent
    20.71%

    I've used a variant of HST when I was dieting twice and I think it helped presserve gains.  I set my days up a little differently and didn't use whole weeks for high reps.   The problem I had using it to gain mass was that without a good and long warmup for each bodypart I couldn't tax it enough to make it grow.  So basically I was spending more than half my time warming up and preparing a new body part.  IT just wasn't effective for me.

    Others might be better suited to taxing a bodypart with less warmup and for them this might be an efficent way of making gains.   Just didn't work well for me.

    I will recommend you give it a try Ex, after all change is a key to growth.  Also about legs, you might wanna consider a 2nd lower body execize to hit the legs for the different nueral path.  When I was running HST I did squats followed by ham machine for one workout and the next would be DLs follwed by leg ex.  Just my input on it.

     
  11. New Member
    SteveDFW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Age
    50
    Posts
    174
    Rep Power
    234
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    73.23%

    Originally posted by ex_banana-eater
    From what I understand, (only been reading for the last few days) that rep numbers don't really matter. That is like turning a qualitative property into a quantitative property. It is all mechanical load. It must increase.


    But just say I am giving aproximate numbers...

    How would a 15, 12, 10, 8, 6, 5, Neg/ Scheme look like. With one week for each?

    Or would it be preferable to do 15 , 10, 8, 5 two weeks each (maybe throw in negatives although I don't like them because I haven't gotten that great of results previously)
    You can do that. I would drop the rep scheme when your concentric speed slows down. Don't worry about sticking to a one week or two week scheme for reps. Your plan will work just base it upon the "slowing of your concentric rep". I would either drop the 6 or 5 reps scheme though.
  12. New Member
    ex_banana-eater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    369
    Rep Power
    330
    Level
    19
    Lv. Percent
    28.5%

    I've talked to alot of people about HST outside of this thread now, and alot said to just smoothly increase the load. Forget about reps.. but if you gave it reps it would be something like this 22,21,20,19,18, etc every workout. I might slow it down to every two workouts near the end. So for this to be possible I will have to get some magnet weight from walmart that are about 1lb each.
  13. New Member
    DarCSA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    0
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    18
    Lv. Percent
    52.35%

    This is definently a different school of thought in training. If people are having good experiences with it I would say give it a try. Other than that I personally do not like the routine and would not do it. Thanks for your info to Steve.
  14. New Member
    SteveDFW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Age
    50
    Posts
    174
    Rep Power
    234
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    73.23%

    Originally posted by ex_banana-eater
    I've talked to alot of people about HST outside of this thread now, and alot said to just smoothly increase the load. Forget about reps.. but if you gave it reps it would be something like this 22,21,20,19,18, etc every workout. I might slow it down to every two workouts near the end. So for this to be possible I will have to get some magnet weight from walmart that are about 1lb each.
    You need to increase your weights 5% - 10% every workout or everyother workout (it is OK to repeat a weight two workouts in a row).

    An increase of one or two lbs in not usually enough, unless it is lighter dumbbells for arms and maybe shoulders.
  15. New Member
    ex_banana-eater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    369
    Rep Power
    330
    Level
    19
    Lv. Percent
    28.5%

    here is a link to my routine, ive figured out the basics but havent figured out if i want to do GPP with it yet. talk to you guys...
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Starting cycle soon! Can you help?
    By partyman43 in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 06-19-2008, 10:27 PM
  2. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 11-18-2006, 10:10 AM
  3. Starting this soon...
    By ingo_1978 in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 12-23-2005, 01:51 PM
  4. Starting cycle soon....
    By chleric in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-21-2005, 04:30 PM
  5. Need Some help, starting IGF soon few questions
    By bigmark1972 in forum IGF-1/GH
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 05-15-2004, 08:44 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in