Status of EvoMuse?

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by HIT4ME View Post
    This would make some sense if you had a larger company that would ever have some interest in his formulas. As consumers we are interested in products that work...but I hate to bring reality into it and tell you that supplement companies don't really care what works and what does not work.

    If you look at Matt's formulas you will notice two issues instantly - most of them have a long list of ingredients and some of those ingredients are really hard to source.

    What this ultimately means is that you have to find all the ingredients which normally involves multiple sources, get them to someone with a certified facility that can accept all the ingredients and is willing to do so (some manufacturers won't accept something they didn't source), and then hit the minimums for a very specialized formula.

    And the long list of ingredients alone means the cost of the product becomes very high. Throw in the logistics, and all the minimum purchasing requirements and it's a nightmare.

    For instance, if I wanted to sell Agmatine pills I may be able to purchase 10 KG to get the price I need and make enough to make a significant profit.

    But if I have 3 ingredients and I have to buy 5 KG of each to hit minimums - I've increased costs by 50% right there. If any of those ingredients aren't used by other companies and are specialized or difficult to source - maybe I've doubled the cost for a minimum batch.

    So as much as I think I could negotiate with someone to pick up some of Matt's formulas, every company I am aware of either of us even beginning a conversation starts off with, "What ingredients can we take out of this product to make the list smaller?"

    For instance, most companies will set a price point before even formulating. They will say, new pre-workout that will cost us $5/tub and we can sell for $40 (or worse) You wont get many ingredients for $5 per 20 or 30 servings.

    And Matt's profit margins are small, which kind of is what creates the issue. But he wants people to use and love his products and wants the products to be as effective as a supplement can be.

    I have told him I bet he would be surprised at how many people would actually pay $10 or even $20 more for some of his products, because they work, if the products were regularly stocked.

    I also think...since I am a customer myself...that it sucks because he gets things made and I want to try them which means I have to place BIG orders when it is available or never get the stuff. So I have to spend $300 all at once for 6 months. ...but if I didn't have that pressure he could probably get $100 a month out of me easy which would be easier for me, and make him more money..
    This is all very true and good perspective. Gotta be somewhere we can meet in the middle! It sucks finding a product that works (i buy 12 months+ of all his products as soon as he releases them just because I know they will be gone ASAP! ) and then when its gone you have to "settle" with a lesser product to fill in its place. Nothing compares to DCP, DEFUSE, Clear Edge, Brite, epitome, gut health, they are all very unique and one of a kind. Slintensity, krill oil, the topical fat burners, you can find other companies to replace those. But not the others.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by HIT4ME View Post
    This would make some sense if you had a larger company that would ever have some interest in his formulas. As consumers we are interested in products that work...but I hate to bring reality into it and tell you that supplement companies don't really care what works and what does not work.

    If you look at Matt's formulas you will notice two issues instantly - most of them have a long list of ingredients and some of those ingredients are really hard to source.

    What this ultimately means is that you have to find all the ingredients which normally involves multiple sources, get them to someone with a certified facility that can accept all the ingredients and is willing to do so (some manufacturers won't accept something they didn't source), and then hit the minimums for a very specialized formula.

    And the long list of ingredients alone means the cost of the product becomes very high. Throw in the logistics, and all the minimum purchasing requirements and it's a nightmare.

    For instance, if I wanted to sell Agmatine pills I may be able to purchase 10 KG to get the price I need and make enough to make a significant profit.

    But if I have 3 ingredients and I have to buy 5 KG of each to hit minimums - I've increased costs by 50% right there. If any of those ingredients aren't used by other companies and are specialized or difficult to source - maybe I've doubled the cost for a minimum batch.

    So as much as I think I could negotiate with someone to pick up some of Matt's formulas, every company I am aware of either of us even beginning a conversation starts off with, "What ingredients can we take out of this product to make the list smaller?"

    For instance, most companies will set a price point before even formulating. They will say, new pre-workout that will cost us $5/tub and we can sell for $40 (or worse) You wont get many ingredients for $5 per 20 or 30 servings.

    And Matt's profit margins are small, which kind of is what creates the issue. But he wants people to use and love his products and wants the products to be as effective as a supplement can be.

    I have told him I bet he would be surprised at how many people would actually pay $10 or even $20 more for some of his products, because they work, if the products were regularly stocked.

    I also think...since I am a customer myself...that it sucks because he gets things made and I want to try them which means I have to place BIG orders when it is available or never get the stuff. So I have to spend $300 all at once for 6 months. ...but if I didn't have that pressure he could probably get $100 a month out of me easy which would be easier for me, and make him more money..
    Absolute truth. Thisnisnsuch price of pure innovation in a market that isn't overly conducive to it. I completely agree on paying extra for a steadier stock of stuff.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by ZachHXx View Post
    This is all very true and good perspective. Gotta be somewhere we can meet in the middle! It sucks finding a product that works (i buy 12 months+ of all his products as soon as he releases them just because I know they will be gone ASAP! ) and then when its gone you have to "settle" with a lesser product to fill in its place. Nothing compares to DCP, DEFUSE, Clear Edge, Brite, epitome, gut health, they are all very unique and one of a kind. Slintensity, krill oil, the topical fat burners, you can find other companies to replace those. But not the others.
    This post highlights a question I have always had about evomuse. Why doesn’t Matt just focus his efforts on DCP, defuse, clear edge... the products noted above. Those are the standouts and the products that seem to be the most popular. Do the sales data not back that up?

  4. Brite Uber alles

  5. Quote Originally Posted by primolift00 View Post
    This post highlights a question I have always had about evomuse. Why doesn’t Matt just focus his efforts on DCP, defuse, clear edge... the products noted above. Those are the standouts and the products that seem to be the most popular. Do the sales data not back that up?
    Yeah...the sales numbers are actually not in accordance with your picks - but even that is tough to say.

    The issue is the sales numbers are skewed because Matt constantly has innovative ideas and he has hit the market with so many great products. Your list will have 100 people that agree and another group of products will have 100, etc. Not to mention those 3 products also are some of the biggest offenders for cost to produce issues.

    If we went with those 3 products there would be someone upset about slintensity, gut health, alpha burn. And if we chose those 3 people would still be clamoring for BMP, Brite and epitome.

    Still...the logic isn't wrong. But Matt tries to listen to customers, almost too much, and keep a rotation so the stuff comes up in waves.

    It's not ideal and the problem is difficult to solve. Especially when Matt is really a 1 man show to a very large extent.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by HIT4ME View Post
    Yeah...the sales numbers are actually not in accordance with your picks - but even that is tough to say.

    The issue is the sales numbers are skewed because Matt constantly has innovative ideas and he has hit the market with so many great products. Your list will have 100 people that agree and another group of products will have 100, etc. Not to mention those 3 products also are some of the biggest offenders for cost to produce issues.

    If we went with those 3 products there would be someone upset about slintensity, gut health, alpha burn. And if we chose those 3 people would still be clamoring for BMP, Brite and epitome.

    Still...the logic isn't wrong. But Matt tries to listen to customers, almost too much, and keep a rotation so the stuff comes up in waves.

    It's not ideal and the problem is difficult to solve. Especially when Matt is really a 1 man show to a very large extent.
    Really appreciate the insight brother. All makes sense.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by HIT4ME View Post
    Yeah...the sales numbers are actually not in accordance with your picks - but even that is tough to say.

    The issue is the sales numbers are skewed because Matt constantly has innovative ideas and he has hit the market with so many great products. Your list will have 100 people that agree and another group of products will have 100, etc. Not to mention those 3 products also are some of the biggest offenders for cost to produce issues.

    If we went with those 3 products there would be someone upset about slintensity, gut health, alpha burn. And if we chose those 3 people would still be clamoring for BMP, Brite and epitome.

    Still...the logic isn't wrong. But Matt tries to listen to customers, almost too much, and keep a rotation so the stuff comes up in waves.

    It's not ideal and the problem is difficult to solve. Especially when Matt is really a 1 man show to a very large extent.
    Agreed but I wonder if Matt would be better at f picking and choosing his battles, keeping certain products in house and structuring a collaboration or licensing deal with other products. I am betting the right business partner would allow him to maintain quality control over the products. He also has to be leaving money on the table by not doing this- customers are constantly looking for evomuse products and he just doesn’t currently have enough resources to keep up with demand

  8. Quote Originally Posted by D3x View Post
    Brite Uber alles
    If brite pills ever came out I bet they would be sold out in a couple of days.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by primolift00 View Post
    If brite pills ever came out I bet they would be sold out in a couple of days.
    They sure would cuz I would buy the whole lot

  10. Quote Originally Posted by primolift00 View Post
    Agreed but I wonder if Matt would be better at f picking and choosing his battles, keeping certain products in house and structuring a collaboration or licensing deal with other products. I am betting the right business partner would allow him to maintain quality control over the products. He also has to be leaving money on the table by not doing this- customers are constantly looking for evomuse products and he just doesn’t currently have enough resources to keep up with demand
    That's how business usually works though, right? Something seems to make perfect sense to you, but it just doesn't seem to work out. Matt has had multiple attempts at this exact sort of partnership and it rarely works out, unfortunately.

    Quote Originally Posted by primolift00 View Post
    If brite pills ever came out I bet they would be sold out in a couple of days.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZachHXx View Post
    They sure would cuz I would buy the whole lot
    If you guys want to pre-fund a run, I can probably set it up haha. Small runs cost $10s of thousands of dollars still. Talking out of school.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by HIT4ME View Post
    That's how business usually works though, right? Something seems to make perfect sense to you, but it just doesn't seem to work out. Matt has had multiple attempts at this exact sort of partnership and it rarely works out, unfortunately.





    If you guys want to pre-fund a run, I can probably set it up haha. Small runs cost $10s of thousands of dollars still. Talking out of school.
    That's only 100 of us buying $100 of prerun tho.. not impossible

  12. Can Brite be used for a bulk?

  13. Well, I said $10's - multiple 10's. It may be as much as 300 people @ $100...I will check on it.

    I'm down for trying to make it work if others are up for it. We just need the cash and to convince Matt.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by BlockBuilder View Post
    Can Brite be used for a bulk?
    Yes - it can be used as a source of fats, but the fats will activate brown fat a little more so you should gain slightly less fat during the bulk.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by HIT4ME View Post
    Well, I said $10's - multiple 10's. It may be as much as 300 people @ $100...I will check on it.

    I'm down for trying to make it work if others are up for it. We just need the cash and to convince Matt.
    I'd be down if it gets me more reliable supplies of Brite.. or really any of Matt's genius phenotype supps..

  16. Is it safe to order? I really need gut health!!!!!

  17. Quote Originally Posted by josun View Post
    Is it safe to order? I really need gut health!!!!!
    You should be good from what I know...Matt seems to be getting the orders out and I haven't heard any issues to be honest with the orders themselves.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by HIT4ME View Post
    Well, I said $10's - multiple 10's. It may be as much as 300 people @ $100...I will check on it.

    I'm down for trying to make it work if others are up for it. We just need the cash and to convince Matt.
    I would definitely buy during the pre run. I honestly think this would be one of the 5 most popular supplements to the am crowd if it was ever released.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by HIT4ME View Post
    You should be good from what I know...Matt seems to be getting the orders out and I haven't heard any issues to be honest with the orders themselves.
    ok thanks bruh

  20. Bmp powder incoming

  21. I've sent emails to two different addresses, messaged through FB twice for a custom order as he said he would take but all have been ignored. I give up unfortunately. I've used almost all his products, most with great results but this has been an ongoing frustration. I know he's had his own personal issues and I wish him all the best.

  22. I got a hold of him through email about 3 weeks ago for issues with an order. He said he would get replacements out, nothing has shown up. I have tried to follow up with emails and FB messages and no luck.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by ArkAngel86 View Post
    I got a hold of him through email about 3 weeks ago for issues with an order. He said he would get replacements out, nothing has shown up. I have tried to follow up with emails and FB messages and no luck.
    @HIT4ME is your guy then

  24. Quote Originally Posted by HIT4ME View Post
    This would make some sense if you had a larger company that would ever have some interest in his formulas. As consumers we are interested in products that work...but I hate to bring reality into it and tell you that supplement companies don't really care what works and what does not work.

    If you look at Matt's formulas you will notice two issues instantly - most of them have a long list of ingredients and some of those ingredients are really hard to source.

    What this ultimately means is that you have to find all the ingredients which normally involves multiple sources, get them to someone with a certified facility that can accept all the ingredients and is willing to do so (some manufacturers won't accept something they didn't source), and then hit the minimums for a very specialized formula.

    And the long list of ingredients alone means the cost of the product becomes very high. Throw in the logistics, and all the minimum purchasing requirements and it's a nightmare.

    For instance, if I wanted to sell Agmatine pills I may be able to purchase 10 KG to get the price I need and make enough to make a significant profit.

    But if I have 3 ingredients and I have to buy 5 KG of each to hit minimums - I've increased costs by 50% right there. If any of those ingredients aren't used by other companies and are specialized or difficult to source - maybe I've doubled the cost for a minimum batch.

    So as much as I think I could negotiate with someone to pick up some of Matt's formulas, every company I am aware of either of us even beginning a conversation starts off with, "What ingredients can we take out of this product to make the list smaller?"

    For instance, most companies will set a price point before even formulating. They will say, new pre-workout that will cost us $5/tub and we can sell for $40 (or worse) You wont get many ingredients for $5 per 20 or 30 servings.

    And Matt's profit margins are small, which kind of is what creates the issue. But he wants people to use and love his products and wants the products to be as effective as a supplement can be.

    I have told him I bet he would be surprised at how many people would actually pay $10 or even $20 more for some of his products, because they work, if the products were regularly stocked.

    I also think...since I am a customer myself...that it sucks because he gets things made and I want to try them which means I have to place BIG orders when it is available or never get the stuff. So I have to spend $300 all at once for 6 months. ...but if I didn't have that pressure he could probably get $100 a month out of me easy which would be easier for me, and make him more money..
    Man this is a tough situation, it sucks too b/c the ONLY probiotic I can take is his Gut Health product. I buy 6 months at a time b/c of this same deal. Oh my girl freaking loves the beauty products and the soap. I would second that I would pay a bit more if it helped him stay afloat. The 6 month discount on GutHealth makes each bottle VERY reasonable. There's healthfood stores stocking terrible ones that make you sick and ppl buy them for 40 a month. I meant he difference in price and quality is incredible between Evo and everyone else.

    I hope this all works out!!

  25. Quote Originally Posted by rtmilburn View Post
    @HIT4ME is your guy then
    Haha, thanks man.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArkAngel86 View Post
    I got a hold of him through email about 3 weeks ago for issues with an order. He said he would get replacements out, nothing has shown up. I have tried to follow up with emails and FB messages and no luck.
    I am told your replacements went out today. Did you get any info? If you need more help, send me a PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by ironkill View Post
    I've sent emails to two different addresses, messaged through FB twice for a custom order as he said he would take but all have been ignored. I give up unfortunately. I've used almost all his products, most with great results but this has been an ongoing frustration. I know he's had his own personal issues and I wish him all the best.
    If you want to discuss it in PM I will do what I can...
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