KetoForce- Patrick Arnold does it again.....and how!!

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by truthornothin View Post
    ketones are the fuel your body generates when you are in ketosis. KetoForse is an external supply of that fuel. A ready available source over and above what your body produces
    You mean like carbs or food? Holy cow a carbon source! What a concept!

    Seriously though - question: Why would someone with elevated blood sugar, or who is regularly eating carbs, want to use this? It seems like to supply exogenous ketones in excess of blood glucose is just going to shunt natural ketone production, at the very least until glycaemia is reduced. And won't the body continue to use the glucose preferentially since it's energetically more efficient?

    I mean, yes, you're artificially elevating blood ketone levels, but you're not stimulating or initiating ketogenesis are you? For that, you need glucose clearance, and this doesn't seem to dothat at all.
    Bulk Performance Solutions
    --No Proprietary Blends, All Performance--

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  2. Why the sodium and potassium forms as opposed to, you know, another form?
    Black Lion Research Rep
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by braskibra View Post
    PA have you considered the cross fit community, they generally seem to buy into many of the paleo concepts. There is also quite a few paleo and low carb forums out there ( caveman, lowcarb.org)
    I need people that are already established on these sites and in these communities. I just cant go in there as a newbie and start pimping

    do you know any candidates?
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  4. Quote Originally Posted by todd muelheim View Post
    Will they take precedence over glucose if taken by someone not on a ketogenic diet? Sry if this has been mentioned already.
    This is the question that keeps coming up. And i am going to press Dr. Dagostino for his thoughts on this.

    We do know that
    For people that have trouble processing glucose (due to insulin insenstivity, Glut4 deficiency etc) ketones serve as an excellent alternative fuel source

    So what if you are able to metabolize glucose efficiently? Well I imagine that during intensive exercsie you may deplete glycogen reserves and at that point your body could utilize the ketones. Are ketones burned simulataneously with glucose before you reach this point? I dont know. I dont see why they wouldnt be.
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  5. Quote Originally Posted by NADDANME View Post
    Wondering the same wonder on a long run (20 miles or more) when would be the best time to take. Before hand or 1 to 1-1/2 in to run?
    i would take some before hand and then have some to sip on during the race
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Resolve View Post
    You mean like carbs or food? Holy cow a carbon source! What a concept!

    Seriously though - question: Why would someone with elevated blood sugar, or who is regularly eating carbs, want to use this? It seems like to supply exogenous ketones in excess of blood glucose is just going to shunt natural ketone production, at the very least until glycaemia is reduced. And won't the body continue to use the glucose preferentially since it's energetically more efficient?

    I mean, yes, you're artificially elevating blood ketone levels, but you're not stimulating or initiating ketogenesis are you? For that, you need glucose clearance, and this doesn't seem to dothat at all.
    first of all, someone with elevated blood glucose who is eating carbs will not be producing ketones to begin with. And people in such a metabolic state obviously are suffering from insulin resistance and limited capacity to produce dieteary energy from glucose. For these people exogenous ketones would be very beneficial, as they can enter cells freely and generate ATP

    ketones are more energetically efficient than glucose btw, you have that backwards

    Its somewhat unrelated but this product has been shown to consistently lower blood glucose (around 10-15 points) so to say it does nothing for glucose clearance is not entirely true. However this product is not meant to stimulate your bodies production of ketones, it is merely an exogenous source of ketones. Sort of like MCTs but you can reach blood levels much higher
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Resolve View Post
    You mean like carbs or food? Holy cow a carbon source! What a concept!
    .
    yes energy substrates (like all organic compounds) are carbon based. However their role in the production of cellular energy have nothing to do with being a "carbon source"
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    first of all, someone with elevated blood glucose who is eating carbs will not be producing ketones to begin with. And people in such a metabolic state obviously are suffering from insulin resistance and limited capacity to produce dieteary energy from glucose. For these people exogenous ketones would be very beneficial, as they can enter cells freely and generate ATP

    ketones are more energetically efficient than glucose btw, you have that backwards

    Its somewhat unrelated but this product has been shown to consistently lower blood glucose (around 10-15 points) so to say it does nothing for glucose clearance is not entirely true. However this product is not meant to stimulate your bodies production of ketones, it is merely an exogenous source of ketones. Sort of like MCTs but you can reach blood levels much higher
    Appreciate the answer, though people with elevated glucose could just be post-prandial, they're not necessarily diabetic. But you are right, I did reverse ketones and glucose - I was thinking of them as a product of gluconeogenesis rather than lipolysis for whatever reason.

    So this is intended to ease the transition from using glucose to ketones as a fuel source, right? Do exogenous ketone bodies suppress endogenous production?
    Bulk Performance Solutions
    --No Proprietary Blends, All Performance--

    ***NOW @ NP***

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Resolve View Post
    Appreciate the answer, though people with elevated glucose could just be post-prandial, they're not necessarily diabetic. But you are right, I did reverse ketones and glucose - I was thinking of them as a product of gluconeogenesis rather than lipolysis for whatever reason.

    So this is intended to ease the transition from using glucose to ketones as a fuel source, right? Do exogenous ketone bodies suppress endogenous production?

    I am not really marketing it to ease the transition into a ketogenic diet anymore. That was something I originally thought of but now I think its best to target it for exercise performance, at least for the time being.

    Ketones themselves do not seem to self regulate ketone production. Insulin certainly does. Observe diabetic ketoacidosis. The ketones pile up yet ketone production keeps running amok. This is because the body is unable to produce and/or process insulin.

    So I dont think this product should interfere with endogenous ketone production, at least not by any mechanism involving ketones themselves
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  10. Everyone is wondering how well your body will use ketones for energy if you are not in ketosis and are eating a normal carb diet

    Does your body burn ketones simulataneously with glucose? During exercise when glucose availabilty becomes a limiting factor will ketones then kick in and take over?


    D'Agostino, Dominic
    12:36 PM (6 minutes ago)


    Yes and yes to both questions. I think the main benefit is that it will spare glycogen and thus endurance athletes will have greater time to exhaustion.
    We see this in mice.
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  11. Quote Originally Posted by truthornothin View Post
    I have not used it carbed up, but it would be an additional source of energy in addition to the carbs in your system. I haven't heard from anyone that has used it this way yet. But it should help with both, the running longer and pushing out more reps.
    Seems like the ticket to push through those Thursday/Friday workouts
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative

    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/serio...ml#post5897056

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    Everyone is wondering how well your body will use ketones for energy if you are not in ketosis and are eating a normal carb diet

    Does your body burn ketones simulataneously with glucose? During exercise when glucose availabilty becomes a limiting factor will ketones then kick in and take over?


    D'Agostino, Dominic
    12:36 PM (6 minutes ago)


    Yes and yes to both questions. I think the main benefit is that it will spare glycogen and thus endurance athletes will have greater time to exhaustion.
    We see this in mice.
    awesome!

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    Seems like the ticket to push through those Thursday/Friday workouts
    I've had my two most stellar squat routines ever using KETOFORCE, TAA and COP. PR's left and right. I literally had to stop myself or else it would have been too easy to push too far....a good problem to have
    E-PHARM Nutrition Representative
    Better one ugly truth than a million pretty lies
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  14. Quote Originally Posted by truthornothin View Post
    I've had my two most stellar squat routines ever using KETOFORCE, TAA and COP. PR's left and right. I literally had to stop myself or else it would have been too easy to push too far....a good problem to have
    Have cop,and taa, your getting me fi in curious about Keto.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    I need people that are already established on these sites and in these communities. I just cant go in there as a newbie and start pimping

    do you know any candidates?
    I have already ordered 2 bottles.

    A guy you could "sponsor" with a bottle or two is a norwegian guy named Kenn Halstensen. He has many clients, some of them top athletes. In Norway he is responsible for the diet of the top soccer team Strømsgodset. They are affiliated with Manchester City and he has been there to talk about his views of a LCHF-diet to promote a better physical condition. He has also co-written several books. He is affiliated with paleo/keto- proponents all over the world.

    I have already tipped him about KetoForce.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post

    I need people that are already established on these sites and in these communities. I just cant go in there as a newbie and start pimping

    do you know any candidates?
    Have you ran this by Palumbo? He'd be on board for sure (and post it on his forum)

  17. I would take some!. My workouts are geared more towards fat loss and endurance than anything else!.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    I would take some!. My workouts are geared more towards fat loss and endurance than anything else!.
    Take a listen to this. Patrick Arnold and Dr. D'agostino discussing the product and Ketosis in general. Dr. D'Agostino said that KetoForce is the Creatine for endurance athletes. There you go T-Bone.http://www.superhumanradio.com/shr-1...ml#addcomments
    E-PHARM Nutrition Representative
    Better one ugly truth than a million pretty lies
    Check Out Ur-Spray and D-Serine at Prototype Nutrition




  19. Quote Originally Posted by truthornothin View Post
    Take a listen to this. Patrick Arnold and Dr. D'agostino discussing the product and Ketosis in general. Dr. D'Agostino said that KetoForce is the Creatine for endurance athletes. There you go T-Bone.http://www.superhumanradio.com/shr-1...ml#addcomments

    U listened to it?

    I thought it was great. But then I am so familiar with the subject matter. I dunno how easy it was for others to follow
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  20. Quote Originally Posted by truthornothin View Post
    Take a listen to this. Patrick Arnold and Dr. D'agostino discussing the product and Ketosis in general. Dr. D'Agostino said that KetoForce is the Creatine for endurance athletes. There you go T-Bone.http://www.superhumanradio.com/shr-1...ml#addcomments
    Ok I'll take some time to listen tomorrow.

  21. If one were on a keto-diet and the goal is fatloss, would consuming KetoForce before 4-5 weekly workouts make me use LESS stored energy? Will KetoForce fuel my workouts making them better/more effective, but at the same time make me lose fat slower?

  22. Quote Originally Posted by HITFrank View Post
    If one were on a keto-diet and the goal is fatloss, would consuming KetoForce before 4-5 weekly workouts make me use LESS stored energy? Will KetoForce fuel my workouts making them better/more effective, but at the same time make me lose fat slower?

    in the long term i dont think so. yes you will use less stored energy if you have any caloric source before training. You will also burn alot more muscle, which will ultimately end up lowering your metabolic rate and then you will probably end up fatter
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    U listened to it?

    I thought it was great. But then I am so familiar with the subject matter. I dunno how easy it was for others to follow
    Yes, I listened to it. It was good. I am somewhat familiar with the subject matter but it filled in some gaps regarding exactly what the product can do as well as keto dieting in general. I see numerous applications for KetoForce. I will be following D'agostino's work as well as I have a personal interest i keto dieting as well. Especially regarding its anti cancer effects
    E-PHARM Nutrition Representative
    Better one ugly truth than a million pretty lies
    Check Out Ur-Spray and D-Serine at Prototype Nutrition




  24. Ketones and Carbohydrates: Can they co-exist?


    http://eatingacademy.com/sports-and-...s-can-co-exist
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    U listened to it?

    I thought it was great. But then I am so familiar with the subject matter. I dunno how easy it was for others to follow
    I listened to it. It's a facinating subject which I didn't have a hard time following. And i ain't no genE us.
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