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    Joint Force


    Over the past few days I seemed to have developed some kind of shoulder injury. I don't want to go into details but I'm now getting pain on my left shoulder when doing flat bench. I just read about joint force and that it can have instant pain relief effects. Wondering how long one bottle will last?. I just purchased two of them just in case. Should I only use it on an as needed basis?. Ok I'll tell you more about the shoulder "injury". I'm not sure what is going on but I was gaining strength on my bench press and kept adding weight each week. On Tuesday my left shoulder felt "off" and I was getting a few popping noises. Wednesday I went to the gym with the intention of doing some chest and shoulders. Anyway I got there and warmed up pretty good. I felt a bit of pain when I was warming up. Put on my working weight and I could barely do 2 reps without pain in my left shoulder. Now today it is difficult to even lift the lightest things around the house with my left arm. I've been trying to avoid the use of my left side. Never had an injury this debilitating. I'm old though so I guess it is inevitable that my shoulder/shoulders will give out. Hopefully I can find some alternate exercises that I can do. Either that or I just keep pushing through it. I just hate to have to give up benching even if it is only till/if my shoulder heals.

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    Bump for some opinions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Over the past few days I seemed to have developed some kind of shoulder injury. I don't want to go into details but I'm now getting pain on my left shoulder when doing flat bench. I just read about joint force and that it can have instant pain relief effects. Wondering how long one bottle will last?. I just purchased two of them just in case. Should I only use it on an as needed basis?. Ok I'll tell you more about the shoulder "injury". I'm not sure what is going on but I was gaining strength on my bench press and kept adding weight each week. On Tuesday my left shoulder felt "off" and I was getting a few popping noises. Wednesday I went to the gym with the intention of doing some chest and shoulders. Anyway I got there and warmed up pretty good. I felt a bit of pain when I was warming up. Put on my working weight and I could barely do 2 reps without pain in my left shoulder. Now today it is difficult to even lift the lightest things around the house with my left arm. I've been trying to avoid the use of my left side. Never had an injury this debilitating. I'm old though so I guess it is inevitable that my shoulder/shoulders will give out. Hopefully I can find some alternate exercises that I can do. Either that or I just keep pushing through it. I just hate to have to give up benching even if it is only till/if my shoulder heals.
    I am certainly not a doctor and cannot give medical opinions. Joint Force works on inflammation. If your shoulder issue is inflammation it will help. I had a similar issue. Actually almost identical. Especially the popping noises and the the difficulty in lifting small things. I tried to self diagnose and had convinced myself that I had a SLAP tear.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SLAP_tear

    I scared my self that I'd need surgery, I'd just suffered a complete rupture of my left bicep tendon(tore my bicep completely off the bone) a year before and was just getting back to normal. The thought of another surgery and the subsequent rehab period sunk my spirit. I did what you should do, I went to the Doctor. I had an impingement and severe inflammation. I had to lay off lifting anything that aggravated it for 6 weeks, much better than 6 months. So IMO that is what you should do. If it is just inflammation the Jointforce should help with healing also. If not you'll want to do what the Doctor says to avoid worsening the issue. Trust me I feel you on the old thing you do not list your age. I'll be 47 on April 6. Every year I seem to accumulate double damage from the year before. Be smart on this one T-Bone, get a Doctors opinion, you won't be sorry. As far as how long a bottle lasts, if you only treat the shoulder about a month. Hope that helps
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    Thanks Truth. I'm not sure I'm ready to see a doctor about it yet. If it gets worse within the next few days I will be making an appointment though. Well I'm 39 turning 40 this July. I'm told its all downhill after 40. Seems as if whenever I start progressing faster something like this happens. I may have over-stated the injury and been over-dramatic about it. I will give it another week.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Thanks Truth. I'm not sure I'm ready to see a doctor about it yet. If it gets worse within the next few days I will be making an appointment though. Well I'm 39 turning 40 this July. I'm told its all downhill after 40. Seems as if whenever I start progressing faster something like this happens. I may have over-stated the injury and been over-dramatic about it. I will give it another week.
    ok man, shoulders are nothing to play with, they are the most maneuverable and most injury prone joint because of that maneuverability. Just don't do anything that exacerbates the injury and ice it. Jointforce after the ice and wrap it with saran wrap for 10 min following application
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    The strange thing is dumbell side laterals didn't bother me much. It was mostly on the flat bench. Maybe it is more of a tendon pull or something similar. I'm not gonna self diagnose but it doesn't hurt bad enough to go to the doctor yet. Tomorrow is mostly leg and back so I still have a day to rest the area before I test the waters again.
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    My joint force should ship tomorrow.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Over the past few days I seemed to have developed some kind of shoulder injury. I don't want to go into details but I'm now getting pain on my left shoulder when doing flat bench. I just read about joint force and that it can have instant pain relief effects. Wondering how long one bottle will last?. I just purchased two of them just in case. Should I only use it on an as needed basis?. Ok I'll tell you more about the shoulder "injury". I'm not sure what is going on but I was gaining strength on my bench press and kept adding weight each week. On Tuesday my left shoulder felt "off" and I was getting a few popping noises. Wednesday I went to the gym with the intention of doing some chest and shoulders. Anyway I got there and warmed up pretty good. I felt a bit of pain when I was warming up. Put on my working weight and I could barely do 2 reps without pain in my left shoulder. Now today it is difficult to even lift the lightest things around the house with my left arm. I've been trying to avoid the use of my left side. Never had an injury this debilitating. I'm old though so I guess it is inevitable that my shoulder/shoulders will give out. Hopefully I can find some alternate exercises that I can do. Either that or I just keep pushing through it. I just hate to have to give up benching even if it is only till/if my shoulder heals.

    joint force can help this kind of injury pretty good, if its what i think it is. u need to rest that shoulder though. hopefully it will heal quickly

    if you just use the joint force on that shoulder it will last a very long time
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    The strange thing is dumbell side laterals didn't bother me much. It was mostly on the flat bench. Maybe it is more of a tendon pull or something similar. I'm not gonna self diagnose but it doesn't hurt bad enough to go to the doctor yet. Tomorrow is mostly leg and back so I still have a day to rest the area before I test the waters again.
    u should give up flat bench for good. inclines are fine and declines. flat bench puts your shoulders in an unstable position.

    dumbell flat presses are ok because your body will naturally shift into the correct range of motion. your body cant do that with a barbell
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    Shoulder feels much better today. Pain is almost completely gone. Still feels a bit tight though. My joint should be delivered by Wednesday the 29th. Tomorrow is chest and shoulders again. Sunday -Monday off. Tuesday legs+back again. So maybe I'll put some on before my workout on Wednesday or after, depending on when my mail shows up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    u should give up flat bench for good. inclines are fine and declines. flat bench puts your shoulders in an unstable position.

    dumbell flat presses are ok because your body will naturally shift into the correct range of motion. your body cant do that with a barbell


    Is that why so many people give up flat bench or just can't do them anymore, because the shoulders are in an unstable position and this causes injury?. I hear of so many guys that just don't or can't do flat bench anymore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Is that why so many people give up flat bench or just can't do them anymore, because the shoulders are in an unstable position and this causes injury?. I hear of so many guys that just don't or can't do flat bench anymore.

    yeah, ask any trainer with knowledge of orthopedics
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    Ok then if it will save my shoulders I guess I'll have to give it up. Tomorrow I'll try dumbbell flat bench instead with some light weight though to see how my shoulder is doing.
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    Thanks Patrick.
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    I
    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Is that why so many people give up flat bench or just can't do them anymore, because the shoulders are in an unstable position and this causes injury?. I hear of so many guys that just don't or can't do flat bench anymore.
    I haven't done barbell bench in years, dumbells only. Pat is right, the body mechanics are much better with dumbells. Your arms naturally move in an arc, a straight bar prevents that. You also engage the stabilizing muscles too and you will get a better stretch and pump
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Shoulder feels much better today. Pain is almost completely gone. Still feels a bit tight though. My joint should be delivered by Wednesday the 29th. Tomorrow is chest and shoulders again. Sunday -Monday off. Tuesday legs+back again. So maybe I'll put some on before my workout on Wednesday or after, depending on when my mail shows up.
    Oh and don't forget to cover the the treated area with plastic wrap, it makes a world of difference
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    I did Flat Dumbbell bench presses today and what a difference!. No pain in the shoulder and I actually got a pump in my chest which I never do. I'm never going back to barbell flat bench. I'll keep barbell declines though. Those I like.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    I did Flat Dumbbell bench presses today and what a difference!. No pain in the shoulder and I actually got a pump in my chest which I never do. I'm never going back to barbell flat bench. I'll keep barbell declines though. Those I like.
    Yeah, dumbell presses are the only way to fly. My lower pecs tend to overpower my lower pecs so I do mostly incline work and never decline. The decline is easy on the shoulder though so you should be safe. Two other movements to avoid if you are having shoulder issues. No behind the neck overhead presses and no behind the neck pull downs. Just take my word for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by truthornothin View Post
    Yeah, dumbell presses are the only way to fly. My lower pecs tend to overpower my lower pecs so I do mostly incline work and never decline. The decline is easy on the shoulder though so you should be safe. Two other movements to avoid if you are having shoulder issues. No behind the neck overhead presses and no behind the neck pull downs. Just take my word for it.

    I've done behind the neck lat pulldowns with no issues. In fact, it is one of my stronger exercises.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    I've done behind the neck lat pulldowns with no issues. In fact, it is one of my stronger exercises.
    Ask any sports physician, its shoulder impingement waiting to happen, not at bad as behind the neck presses...
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    I received my Joint Force yesterday. It does seem to give immediate pain relief and a cooling type sensation wherever you apply it. It does stink pretty bad though. Also it drys quickly which is really nice. Pleased so far.
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    Hey there T-Bone,
    Joint force is good stuff! I use it whenever I get flare ups with my shoulders or elbows. Stack it with Cissus and Skeletal Balm and you have yourself an AMAZING joint relief combo. Couple of things I can think of off the top of my head that could help you are: icing it 2-3x a day, icing it post training, posterior capsule stretches, ytwl's, a theracane (handy little cheap tool which replaces a massage therapist), andfooam rolling..or pvc pipe rolling (myofascial release). Most importantly rest it!!! Also try to avoid exercises that hurt it. When I had shoulder problems db's and hammer strength was all I could get by with without pain. Best of luck on your shoulder rehabilitate
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    Also..have you accidentally inhaled any of the mist yet?? Lol pungent..like in a pepper spray sort of way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigKrabbe View Post
    Also..have you accidentally inhaled any of the mist yet?? Lol pungent..like in a pepper spray sort of way.

    Not yet. I've been watching out for that specifically though since reading about it on here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Not yet. I've been watching out for that specifically though since reading about it on here.
    I was spraying my shoulder once and accidentally inhaled as I sprayed OMFG not fun, It works well though, people bought it by the case at the Arnold Expo, we sold out the first day
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    Joint Force is the best Joint product on the market that I've ever used. I've used it for both a knee injury and shoulder injury. Like mentioned previously....spray, then wrap tightly with saran wrap....it makes a difference. And your right....it does have a cool, mild numbing sensation when applied.

    As for a shoulder injury.....the biggest thing you need to do is rest it. Then and only then work slowly back into the normal routine. Band work will really help as well. Far too many people will take bulk joint products and immediately go back to doing what they were doing once the pain is gone. Just because the pains gone, doesn't mean the injurys gone.

    Take the correct time to heal it right.
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    Went to the doctor for this the other day. No winging, no impingement and not a rotator cuff injury. He asked me about the exercises I did. I told him how I do seated dumbell front press. He tells me that a military presses which are similar are exercises that should be avoided because they are very hard are the shoulders and do cause a lot of injury. Also he said that it could be from bad posture and I do have bad posture. Another thing he told me is that I'm just getting older now and have to avoid certain exercises.

    Should I just avoid shoulder isolation exercises all together? I skipped the front dumbell press the other day and used the machine shoulder press and still had pain on the left shoulder. Also did standing dumbell side laterals and still got some pain in the left should but not as bad. Of course I used very light weight. All other exercises I did that weren't specific to shoulders I felt fine on.


    So seated front dumbell press works Anterior deltoids and that gave me pain in my left shoulder. Incline dumbell bench which works Pectoralis major and Anterior deltoids I felt fine on. So I guess I'm just gonna have to give up those exercises that isolate shoulders or find exercises to swap out for those.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Went to the doctor for this the other day. No winging, no impingement and not a rotator cuff injury. He asked me about the exercises I did. I told him how I do seated dumbell front press. He tells me that a military presses which are similar are exercises that should be avoided because they are very hard are the shoulders and do cause a lot of injury. Also he said that it could be from bad posture and I do have bad posture. Another thing he told me is that I'm just getting older now and have to avoid certain exercises.

    Should I just avoid shoulder isolation exercises all together? I skipped the front dumbell press the other day and used the machine shoulder press and still had pain on the left shoulder. Also did standing dumbell side laterals and still got some pain in the left should but not as bad. Of course I used very light weight. All other exercises I did that weren't specific to shoulders I felt fine on.


    So seated front dumbell press works Anterior deltoids and that gave me pain in my left shoulder. Incline dumbell bench which works Pectoralis major and Anterior deltoids I felt fine on. So I guess I'm just gonna have to give up those exercises that isolate shoulders or find exercises to swap out for those.
    You may not have to give them up totally just for a while. I've been plagued with the occasional shoulder injury to varying degrees. Overhead db presses do not aggravate my shoulders when they are good. I think it is a good exercise since it allows the arm to travel in a natural arc. It seems to work more medial delts for me though and to a lesser degree anterior. The exercises I have had to swear off are any barbell presses, after my bicep reattachment surgery I have a hard time fully pronating or supinating that hand anyway. also upright rows though a great excercise is rough on the rotators and apt to cause impingement. Let your shoulder heal fully and then see what aggravates it or not. Also do some rotator work at the END of your shoulder workout. That should help
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    This doc also cracked my back and asked if I ever saw a chiropractor. He is a new doctor to me because I didn't like my old doctor. He actually has a background in that field. Maybe I should get a referral to see one. Maybe it would help. Anyone here see one and did it help you?
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    By the way the Joint force is working nicely. I no longer have the pain when not working out. It is just those two exercises that cause it. The seated dumbell front press and standing dumbell side laterals. After those and during those I get the pain in the left side. Oh and also the shoulder press machine causes it too.
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    Don't be fooled by the relief Joint Force is giving you. It's a great product, but far too many people get relief and feel they can jump right back into their old routine. The injury still needs rehabed correctly to avoid new or further injuries. Keep using Joint Force and work slowly back into your lifts. I highly recommend using bands as part of your routine.

    As for the doctor telling you that you should avoid those lifts....ehhhh, I'm not sure if I buy it. Now I personally am not a doctor, and can only speak from experience. But, I firmly believe if you use correct form...and slowly progress, these lifts are fine. I personally injured mine about 3 years ago. I correctly rehabed mine, and now can do free weight seated military presses with 315lbs.

    A key to the lift IMO is to only bring the elbows down just below parralel. Far too many people bring the elbows down all the way to their sides. THIS is what puts the shoulders in a bad position...and in the position to get hurt. Just bring the elbows down just below parallel and you will have a great workout. It still leaves you with a incredible ROM during the lift. Use front and side dumbell raises to hit the rest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nimbustim View Post
    Don't be fooled by the relief Joint Force is giving you. It's a great product, but far too many people get relief and feel they can jump right back into their old routine. The injury still needs rehabed correctly to avoid new or further injuries. Keep using Joint Force and work slowly back into your lifts. I highly recommend using bands as part of your routine.

    As for the doctor telling you that you should avoid those lifts....ehhhh, I'm not sure if I buy it. Now I personally am not a doctor, and can only speak from experience. But, I firmly believe if you use correct form...and slowly progress, these lifts are fine. I personally injured mine about 3 years ago. I correctly rehabed mine, and now can do free weight seated military presses with 315lbs.

    A key to the lift IMO is to only bring the elbows down just below parralel. Far too many people bring the elbows down all the way to their sides. THIS is what puts the shoulders in a bad position...and in the position to get hurt. Just bring the elbows down just below parallel and you will have a great workout. It still leaves you with a incredible ROM during the lift. Use front and side dumbell raises to hit the rest.

    My last two chest/shoulder sessions I have left out the seated dumbell presses and dumbell side laterals. Maybe I'll work them back in but I'm not sure right now. I think age is also a factor here too. Also do I really need to do isolation exercises to hit the shoulders?. I'm not trying to be a bodybuilder and never plan on it. As long as I can still go to the gym and lift weights as I age I'll be happy. I'm turning 40 this summer and well things just aren't the same as when I was in my 20's or even early 30's.

    The two, well three exercises that bother me are,

    1) Seated Font Dumbell Press - works the Anterior deltoids

    2) Standing Dumbell Side Laterals- works the Medial Deltoids

    3) Machine shoulder press- "googled" what exact muscles are worked but couldn't find anything. Sure it works the shoulders but what part and is it an isolation exercise like the others or compound movement?

    Anyway I tried the machine shoulder press in place of the others thinking maybe I wouldn't get the pain but I did, so after that I decided to avoid direct shoulder work for the time being.

    The flat dumbell press which I've switched to from barbell presses doesn't hurt my shoulder at all, but it does work the Anterior deltoids just like the seated front dumbell press. Same thing with the Incline dumbell bench press, it also works the anterior deltiods. So why not just depend on these exercises to work the shoulders also?. If I was in my 20's and thinking about someday being competitive well then the answer would be much different.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    My last two chest/shoulder sessions I have left out the seated dumbell presses and dumbell side laterals. Maybe I'll work them back in but I'm not sure right now. I think age is also a factor here too. Also do I really need to do isolation exercises to hit the shoulders?. I'm not trying to be a bodybuilder and never plan on it. As long as I can still go to the gym and lift weights as I age I'll be happy. I'm turning 40 this summer and well things just aren't the same as when I was in my 20's or even early 30's.

    The two, well three exercises that bother me are,

    1) Seated Font Dumbell Press - works the Anterior deltoids

    2) Standing Dumbell Side Laterals- works the Medial Deltoids

    3) Machine shoulder press- "googled" what exact muscles are worked but couldn't find anything. Sure it works the shoulders but what part and is it an isolation exercise like the others or compound movement?

    Anyway I tried the machine shoulder press in place of the others thinking maybe I wouldn't get the pain but I did, so after that I decided to avoid direct shoulder work for the time being.

    The flat dumbell press which I've switched to from barbell presses doesn't hurt my shoulder at all, but it does work the Anterior deltoids just like the seated front dumbell press. Same thing with the Incline dumbell bench press, it also works the anterior deltiods. So why not just depend on these exercises to work the shoulders also?. If I was in my 20's and thinking about someday being competitive well then the answer would be much different.
    Don't give up, I've been right where you are, unable to do direct shoulder work, at one point unable to do any bench press movement for six months. Just let it heal up, work on your rotator cuff exercises in the meantime and you'll come back strong. has your physician ruled out a bone spur?
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    Found another good use for Jointforce. Got home from the Arnold and started experiencing extreme lower back pain into my right glute and leg. I sit all day at my job and the longer I sat the worse it got. The pain was excruciating. Jointforced it in the morning and at night and wow what a difference. I was diagnosed with piriformis syndrome, which is where the piriformis muscle gets shortened by long periods of sitting and presses on the sciatic nerve. I learned some stretches that slowly but surely are alleviating the symptoms but if it wasn't for Jointforce in the meantime I'd have been unable to sleep or work nothing else came close to touching the pain.
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    Have to update and bump this thread. I have recently had a problem with the left side of my upper chest. It hurt to get up in the morning if laying down on my back. I would get a ton of pain in the upper left area of my pec. This has been ongoing for about 3 weeks. This past Friday I went home early from the gym and I'm taking this entire week off. Anyway I have been applying the Joint force to it for a while now but only recently increased the dosage. Now I have been using it three times a day at 6-8 sprays each time. I swear that it is healed now or almost completely. This stuff is awesome at the right dosage!.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Have to update and bump this thread. I have recently had a problem with the left side of my upper chest. It hurt to get up in the morning if laying down on my back. I would get a ton of pain in the upper left area of my pec. This has been ongoing for about 3 weeks. This past Friday I went home early from the gym and I'm taking this entire week off. Anyway I have been applying the Joint force to it for a while now but only recently increased the dosage. Now I have been using it three times a day at 6-8 sprays each time. I swear that it is healed now or almost completely. This stuff is awesome at the right dosage!.
    I know, its like magic. Had an issue with my lower back a bit ago and it was the only thing that helped. As long as it is produced I will be a user, right elbow is sprayed and wrapped right now
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    Quote Originally Posted by truthornothin View Post
    I know, its like magic. Had an issue with my lower back a bit ago and it was the only thing that helped. As long as it is produced I will be a user, right elbow is sprayed and wrapped right now

    Yeah I got up today and then went to lay back down several times to "check" if my chest still hurt. I can still feel it but there is now little to none pain. As far as I know there are no joints in the area where the pain was so I didn't know if it would work, but I guess it did!.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Yeah I got up today and then went to lay back down several times to "check" if my chest still hurt. I can still feel it but there is now little to none pain. As far as I know there are no joints in the area where the pain was so I didn't know if it would work, but I guess it did!.
    my lower back issue was muscle / nerve related, I was desperate when I sprayed it on as nothing else worked and like yourself was pleasantly surprised
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    Stopped all shoulder isolation exercises for a several months after this thread was posted. No problems at all. Just recently(this past monday) re-introduced one shoulder exercise-machine shoulder presses. Pain is back in my shoulder again. I'm so done with shoulder exercises. For months I was fine and had absolutely no pain. I'd much rather just work shoulders in-directly. To me this seems to be much healthier and at least I don't get any pain anyway. I'm not looking to ever be a professional bodybuilder anyway. So you young guys can continue to work your shoulders directly but this whole experience just proves to me that its of little benefit to work shoulders directly and it's just asking for future pain, shoulder injuries and possible surgery.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Stopped all shoulder isolation exercises for a several months after this thread was posted. No problems at all. Just recently(this past monday) re-introduced one shoulder exercise-machine shoulder presses. Pain is back in my shoulder again. I'm so done with shoulder exercises. For months I was fine and had absolutely no pain. I'd much rather just work shoulders in-directly. To me this seems to be much healthier and at least I don't get any pain anyway. I'm not looking to ever be a professional bodybuilder anyway. So you young guys can continue to work your shoulders directly but this whole experience just proves to me that its of little benefit to work shoulders directly and it's just asking for future pain, shoulder injuries and possible surgery.
    T-bone, have you been to a doctor to have it diagnosed?
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