TestForce (original version) and Stomach Issues

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    TestForce (original version) and Stomach Issues


    Hi PA (and other E-Pharm folks),

    I was wondering if you'd had any reports of diarrhea, "burning" stools, or other stomach issues with Test Force. I get a ferocious and undeniable urge to run to the restroom sometime within 30-90 minutes after taking it and generally feel a bit "queesy" for another hour or so after that.

    I ran it for about 20 days (the other only supps I was taking at the time were a creatine/cordyceps blend, whey protein, and the occasional RPM dose pre-workout).

    While I noticed a very minor recomp/hardening effect, I can't say there were many other dramatic changes. I'm a big fan of your products and all that you contribute to the boards and was really hoping this would be a breakthrough supp for me that could become a staple. I don't doubt it's effectiveness given how many others have had positive feedback; perhaps my lack of response is related to the fact that my bowels seemed to violently reject the substance after each dose.

    The only other supplement that ever give me similar stomach issues (though without the "burning" sensation) was Diesel Test, which I took several years ago.

    I just figured I'd report my experience here in case others have had the same and with the hope that you can share some insights into why this reaction might be happening and if it can be prevented.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by Azaloth; 09-11-2010 at 10:37 PM. Reason: noticed a few typos

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    It's an issue that affects a minority of people with all DAA supps. Some people find that taking it with food alleviates the problem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by henryv View Post
    It's an issue that affects a minority of people with all DAA supps. Some people find that taking it with food alleviates the problem.

    mixing it into a drink and sipping throughout the day is another alternative. since it mixes completely you could put it in something like a crystal light drink or a diet seven up and you wont even know its in there
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    I have a horrible tolerance for supps that may cause stomach issues. I have used 2 tubs of Test Force and only had back end issues once and that was when i had Two scoops straight after a coffee and a tea in the morning.

    Every other time i was fine.

    Maybe split the does 1/2 morning 1/2 night or What PA said probs best go with what he says !
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    mixing it into a drink and sipping throughout the day is another alternative. since it mixes completely you could put it in something like a crystal light drink or a diet seven up and you wont even know its in there
    Thanks, Patrick. That's a good idea. I'll give it a shot with what I have left in my current tub and, if all goes well, I'll definitely pick up V2 when it's released for another go.

    Any suggestions for synergistic supps to stack TestForce with? I'm an experienced lifter w/diet & sleep in check. Goals are increased lean mass, strength, athleticism, and musclar endurance.

    Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azaloth View Post
    Thanks, Patrick. That's a good idea. I'll give it a shot with what I have left in my current tub and, if all goes well, I'll definitely pick up V2 when it's released for another go.

    Any suggestions for synergistic supps to stack TestForce with? I'm an experienced lifter w/diet & sleep in check. Goals are increased lean mass, strength, athleticism, and musclar endurance.

    Thanks.
    aromatase inhibitor supplements should work well with testforce. applied nutracueticals sells one called free test i think
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    edit: I stand corrected. Excuse this post
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrYmAsTeR17 View Post
    The reason for your nausea and diahhrea is because of the aspartame. It's aspartame poisoning. It's got to be. TCF-1 doesn't have stomach issues because it's not powder therefore it doesn't need the artificial sweetener for taste. Pat you guys should take that sweetener out of your supplements. Find another sweetener or forget taste. That's very dangerous.
    Nonsense. TestForce 1 doesn't have any aspartame in it. TCF-1 does have stomach issues in susceptible users, just like every other DAA product.
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    how much water is he mixing it with. at first I mixed with a full glass of water which gave me stomach issues. then I mixed it with just enough fluid to get it down and no issues to report when I was useing it with about 3-4 oz.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azaloth View Post
    Hi PA (and other E-Pharm folks),

    I was wondering if you'd had any reports of diarrhea, "burning" stools, or other stomach issues with Test Force. I get a ferocious and undeniable urge to run to the restroom sometime within 30-90 minutes after taking it and generally feel a bit "queesy" for another hour or so after that.

    I ran it for about 20 days (the other only supps I was taking at the time were a creatine/cordyceps blend, whey protein, and the occasional RPM dose pre-workout).

    While I noticed a very minor recomp/hardening effect, I can't say there were many other dramatic changes. I'm a big fan of your products and all that you contribute to the boards and was really hoping this would be a breakthrough supp for me that could become a staple. I don't doubt it's effectiveness given how many others have had positive feedback; perhaps my lack of response is related to the fact that my bowels seemed to violently reject the substance after each dose.

    The only other supplement that ever give me similar stomach issues (though without the "burning" sensation) was Diesel Test, which I took several years ago.

    I just figured I'd report my experience here in case others have had the same and with the hope that you can share some insights into why this reaction might be happening and if it can be prevented.

    Thanks.
    taking it with a meal helps. i sometimes get the runs from it too. All DAA products have this potential i am afraid.

    another strategy that helps is to mix it in water bottle or something and just sip it throughout the day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrYmAsTeR17 View Post
    edit: I stand corrected. Excuse this post
    its very ironic that you would blast aspartame in a DAA product when the toxicity claims against aspartame are in large part because it breaks down into DAA
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    Pat, got a quick question for you regarding TestForce 2. The instructions state to run 2 scoops for 3 weeks then 1 scoop for the rest of the time. What is the best time to take the 2 scoops? Take them at the same time or split them up? If splitting them up what are the ideal times?

    Thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by smoothballer View Post
    Pat, got a quick question for you regarding TestForce 2. The instructions state to run 2 scoops for 3 weeks then 1 scoop for the rest of the time. What is the best time to take the 2 scoops? Take them at the same time or split them up? If splitting them up what are the ideal times?

    Thanks

    you have the directions wrong. The bottle says 2 scoops twice a day for 3 weeks, then after that one scoop twice a day


    there are no ideal times that i am aware of. you may want to try preworkout for one of them though cuz some people are reporting they like that.

    you probably want to split them up to avoid stomach issues. having several hours between doses is fine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    you have the directions wrong. The bottle says 2 scoops twice a day for 3 weeks, then after that one scoop twice a day


    there are no ideal times that i am aware of. you may want to try preworkout for one of them though cuz some people are reporting they like that.

    you probably want to split them up to avoid stomach issues. having several hours between doses is fine
    Oh man, glad I asked about this. I misread part of the directions on NutraPlanet with the 2 scoops twice a day, but they must have incorrect about the amount after 3 weeks:

    NEW TestForce2 Directions:

    Consume 2 scoops twice a day for three weeks. Afterwards consume 1 scoop a day. Cycles can last from three weeks to three months Preferably consume with food.


    I am planning to take the first dose with breakfast and the second dose with the meal prior to working out.

    Also, how long do you recommend running TestForce 2 for with the 3 week load phase included?

    Big fan of your quality supplements Pat!
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    Quote Originally Posted by smoothballer View Post
    Oh man, glad I asked about this. I misread part of the directions on NutraPlanet with the 2 scoops twice a day, but they must have incorrect about the amount after 3 weeks:

    NEW TestForce2 Directions:

    Consume 2 scoops twice a day for three weeks. Afterwards consume 1 scoop a day. Cycles can last from three weeks to three months Preferably consume with food.


    I am planning to take the first dose with breakfast and the second dose with the meal prior to working out.

    Also, how long do you recommend running TestForce 2 for with the 3 week load phase included?

    Big fan of your quality supplements Pat!

    on the can i say cycles can last for 3 weeks to 3 months
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    on the can i say cycles can last for 3 weeks to 3 months
    OK. Thank you Pat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    its very ironic that you would blast aspartame in a DAA product when the toxicity claims against aspartame are in large part because it breaks down into DAA
    So are you saying DAA is a byproduct/derivative of aspartame? Wow who would've thought a sweetener turns out to be a bodybuilding supplement
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrYmAsTeR17 View Post
    So are you saying DAA is a byproduct/derivative of aspartame? Wow who would've thought a sweetener turns out to be a bodybuilding supplement
    my bad

    aspartame can release l-aspartic acid not d-
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    my bad

    aspartame can release l-aspartic acid not d-
    Oh ok. On another note, why did you add aspartame to this version? Did people not like the taste of the old? Or is this new ingredient distasteful so you chose to sweeten it?

    I'm not anti-aspart. or anything I just hate sweeteners lol. < this most certainly SHOULD NOT stop me or anyone from buying it though. I'm only wodering because I don't drink diet sodas for this reason.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrYmAsTeR17 View Post
    Oh ok. On another note, why did you add aspartame to this version? Did people not like the taste of the old? Or is this new ingredient distasteful so you chose to sweeten it?

    I'm not anti-aspart. or anything I just hate sweeteners lol. < this most certainly SHOULD NOT stop me or anyone from buying it though. I'm only wodering because I don't drink diet sodas for this reason.

    sarcosine is not distasteful. i flavored this and added sweetener because some people thought the original had an odd taste.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    sarcosine is not distasteful. i flavored this and added sweetener because some people thought the original had an odd taste.
    One last question (actually 3 lol). FYI I love playing 20 questions with you.

    What do you expect this sarcosine to bring about in terms of results? Instead of free test being 1000, it might be 1200? Does it just enhance DAA's effects or does it have it's own?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrYmAsTeR17 View Post
    One last question (actually 3 lol). FYI I love playing 20 questions with you.

    What do you expect this sarcosine to bring about in terms of results? Instead of free test being 1000, it might be 1200? Does it just enhance DAA's effects or does it have it's own?

    I dont know

    I dont know

    I dont know


    All I know is that the scientific support for sarcosine as a potentiator of d-aspartic acid is strong. And I didnt change the price when i added it either. Its a no lose proposition having it in the product
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    I dont know

    I dont know

    I dont know


    All I know is that the scientific support for sarcosine as a potentiator of d-aspartic acid is strong. And I didnt change the price when i added it either. Its a no lose proposition having it in the product
    Did you run any tests before you produced it; Like compare free and LH test levels of rats or something? If not how did you conclude sarcosine would help?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrYmAsTeR17 View Post
    Did you run any tests before you produced it; Like compare free and LH test levels of rats or something? If not how did you conclude sarcosine would help?
    i had three people do blood work. i had no control though against straight DAA chelate

    my inclusion of sarcosine was based on strong scientific suggestion that it should be an effective addition



    TestForce2

    TestForce2 contains the most soluble form of d-aspartic acid combined with another remarkable amino acid known as sarcosine. This combination provides results clearly superior to other d-aspartic acid product formulations.

    In case you aren’t aware, d-aspartic acid is the hottest supplement ingredient on the market right now. It has more scientific literature supporting its ability to act as a natural regulator of anabolic hormone (i.e. testosterone, growth hormone) release in the body than any supplement ingredient EVER. And E-Pharm was the company to bring you the premium form of d-aspartic acid – d-aspartate calcium chelate. This form is more than 75 times as water soluble as regular d-aspartic acid and soluble over a wide pH range. This ensures the most rapid and complete absorption possible.
    And now E-Pharm has taken the lead in d-aspartic acid technology again with the patent pending addition of the amino acid sarcosine.
    Please allow me to explain why the inclusion of sarcosine is so vital to getting the most out of d-aspartic acid.

    Why Sarcosine?
    Let me start with some background. When d-aspartic acid (DAA) is ingested it is absorbed into the body and taken up preferentially by endocrine tissues such as the hypothalamus, pituitary, and testicles. There it stimulates the activity of what are known as NMDA receptors. NMDA receptors are located on neurons and they regulate neuronal activity. DAA binds to a specific docking site (receptor) located on the NMDA receptor known as NMDA binding site.
    In the hypothalamus the stimulation of NMDA receptors leads to the production of gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH). GnRH then stimulates the pituitary gland to release luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH). LH and FSH then in turn travel to the testicles to initiate the process of steroidogenesis, which leads eventually to the release of testosterone into the blood stream. Stimulation of NMDA receptors in the hypothalamus also leads to the release of growth hormone releasing hormone (GHRH) which in turn promotes the release of growth hormone from the pituitary gland.
    So the key here is the NMDA receptor. The more you activate this receptor in the hypothalamus the greater the release of GnRH and GHRH, and ultimately testosterone and growth hormone.
    The NMDA receptor is somewhat unique in that it requires activaton by two ligands (a ligand is like a “key” to a receptor). In the hypothalamus the main ligand for the NMDA receptor is d-aspartic acid. The secondary ligand (or co-activator) is the amino acid glycine. Both DAA and glycine have specific binding sites on the NMDA receptor. These sites are known as the NMDA binding site and the glycine binding site respectively. Think of it this way - just like how firing a nuclear missile requires two soldiers to turn two separate keys, so the NMDA receptor requires binding by two ligands to initiate its influence on the firing of a neuronal signal.
    So to review, administration of DAA leads to it’s uptake into the hypothalamus and binding to the NMDA receptors there. And to activate the NMDA receptor you also require adequate levels of ligands that bind to the glycine site of the NMDA receptor. Now common sense would lead one to assume that by ingesting supplemental amounts of glycine would ensure that glycine site co-activation is ensured. However the scientific literature has shown that this method has limited efficacy.
    The reason that glycine administration is not very effective at stimulating NMDA activity is not completely straight forward, but one reason is because it is efficiently removed from the synapses by the reuptake regulator Glycine Transporter 1 (GT1).
    Interestingly, much of the science published on the subject of stimulaton of NMDA receptor activity revolves around the theory that NMDA receptor hypo-activity is a causative factor in schizophrenia. For years scientists have been investigating ways to stimulate NMDA activity as a means for treating schizophrenic patients. One of the most effective strategies has been through targeting the GT1 protein. And one of the most efficient means to do this is actually through supplementation with sarcosine.
    Of course we aren’t concerned about treating schizophrenia here, what we are concerned with is maximally stimulating natural production of testosterone (or growth hormone) But the mechanism in question is exactly the same for both purposes. By blocking the re-uptake of glycine you increase the concentration of glycine in neuronal synapses, and therefore increase the influence of NMDA upon nerve transmission. In essence this is the exact way some anti-depressants (such as SSRIs) work, except the goal there is to increase binding and activating of serotonin or dopamine receptors, not NMDA receptors.
    Blocking glycine reuptake is not the only mechanism through which sarcosine stimulates DAA activity. Sarcosine actually can itself bind to the glycine binding site of NMDA receptors. In fact, it binds with a higher affinity than even glycine. So basically it replaces glycine as well as serves as its own reuptake inhibitor. It totally solves the glycine co-activation issue in one shot.
    Knowing all these facts you can see why sarcosine produces a rather dramatic effect on NMDA neuronal transmission compared to glycine itself, or other endogenous ligands for the glycine receptor such as d-serine.

    Conclusion

    To summarize, for d-aspartic acid to work to its maximum potential it must be taken with an efficient stimulator of the glycine binding site on the NMDA receptor. The most efficient non-drug stimulator we know of is the natural amino acid sarcosine.
    TestForce2 contains 3 grams of d-aspartic acid (as d-aspartate calcium chelate) and 3 grams of sarcosine per serving. It also is flavored with a light fruit punch flavor and slightly sweetened to provide a very pleasurable taste experience. It dissolves almost instantly.
    So if you like d-aspartic acid you will love TestForce2. And if you were one of the few “non-responders” to d-aspartic acid then you will also love TestForce2 because you will no longer be a non-responder. You would be a fool to settle for any other d-aspartic acid supplement.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrYmAsTeR17 View Post
    Did you run any tests before you produced it; Like compare free and LH test levels of rats or something? If not how did you conclude sarcosine would help?
    btw i dont have rats in my lab.

    its easier to use people
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    btw i dont have rats in my lab.

    its easier to use people
    lol okay thankyou kind sir
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