[Enigma76]

I haven't posted in a very long time, but I'm interested in this product for its appetite quelling properties.

As I'm kind of meticulous now about the things I put into my body, I did some background reading on arecoline (the active in Arenalean) and have some questions/studies that I felt should be mentioned.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

In particular, the above.

There are plenty of other studies about human Areca Nut chewing leading to oral submucosal fibrosis (with or without tobacco), but those scenarios are very different from the application Adrenalean is intended for.

The above study is one of the few I could find that mentioned overall toxicity, including immunosuppression, hepatotoxicity and suppression of free radical scavengers. I understand it is only a rat model; however, I think the clear correlation with "chewing" the Areca Nut and oral cancer means something is going on.

Can anyone speak to this?

[haiz69]

First off, there was a length discussion over at BB.com about this. Some key points:

1.) There is a major difference between chewing betal nut and taking arecoline. Betal nut contains a lot more than just arecoline.

2.) Most, if not all studies of arecoline are done with an IV/gavage. Not a great representation of what we are doing here.

3.) The FDA has used arecoline in the treatment of Alzheimers patients. There are some studies floating around on it and the FDA has established a safe daily dosage.

[Enigma76]

Originally Posted by haiz69

First off, there was a length discussion over at BB.com about this. Some key points:

1.) There is a major difference between chewing betal nut and taking arecoline. Betal nut contains a lot more than just arecoline.

2.) Most, if not all studies of arecoline are done with an IV/gavage. Not a great representation of what we are doing here.

3.) The FDA has used arecoline in the treatment of Alzheimers patients. There are some studies floating around on it and the FDA has established a safe daily dosage.

Haiz,

Appreciate the response. No offense was intended, I simply saw arecoline and cancer and decided to post up here (its the med student in me being a hypochondriac that made me post). I figured there was an answer somewhere within DS prior to releasing this in a supp. I know the company you represent isn't stupid.

Is the BB.com thread worth it (scientifically I mean)? Usually theres so much garbage over there the good science gets clouded.

In response to your points.

1 and 2 I'm well aware of. There are studies with arecoline itself showing cytotoxicity, however (like the one I posted above).

Your third point is most interesting and definitely removes some of my fears. In a cursory search, most of the alzheimer's related studies were done in the late 80s/early 90s. Most of the cancer-related research was done in the late 90s/early 00s, so I'm wondering if the "cons" per se were unknown at the time of the alzheimer's research.

I would ask then, about the FDA's maximum daily dose (which I found), does Adrenalean stay within those guidelines?

[haiz69]

Originally Posted by Enigma76

Haiz,

Appreciate the response. No offense was intended, I simply saw arecoline and cancer and decided to post up here (its the med student in me being a hypochondriac that made me post). I figured there was an answer somewhere within DS prior to releasing this in a supp. I know the company you represent isn't stupid.

Is the BB.com thread worth it (scientifically I mean)? Usually theres so much garbage over there the good science gets clouded.

In response to your points.

1 and 2 I'm well aware of. There are studies with arecoline itself showing cytotoxicity, however (like the one I posted above).

Your third point is most interesting and definitely removes some of my fears. In a cursory search, most of the alzheimer's related studies were done in the late 80s/early 90s. Most of the cancer-related research was done in the late 90s/early 00s, so I'm wondering if the "cons" per se were unknown at the time of the alzheimer's research.

I would ask then, about the FDA's maximum daily dose (which I found), does Adrenalean stay within those guidelines?

As far as guidelines, a can't say exactly, but we didn't put a "random" amount in there.

As far as the BB.com thread, it is worth a read. It is in the Science section and avoided a lot of crap.

[Sldge]

Originally Posted by Enigma76

Haiz,

Appreciate the response. No offense was intended, I simply saw arecoline and cancer and decided to post up here (its the med student in me being a hypochondriac that made me post). I figured there was an answer somewhere within DS prior to releasing this in a supp. I know the company you represent isn't stupid.

Is the BB.com thread worth it (scientifically I mean)? Usually theres so much garbage over there the good science gets clouded.

In response to your points.

1 and 2 I'm well aware of. There are studies with arecoline itself showing cytotoxicity, however (like the one I posted above).

Your third point is most interesting and definitely removes some of my fears. In a cursory search, most of the alzheimer's related studies were done in the late 80s/early 90s. Most of the cancer-related research was done in the late 90s/early 00s, so I'm wondering if the "cons" per se were unknown at the time of the alzheimer's research.

I would ask then, about the FDA's maximum daily dose (which I found), does Adrenalean stay within those guidelines?

I cant reveal the amount but one of our employees (Uhockey at BB) who is a Doctor is apart of our formulation team. We wouldnt use an amount that we felt wasnt safe.

If you thoroughly read the toxicology studies youll see HUGE issues with the testing methods. Multiple Universities have brought up this problem. The doses used in the toxicology studies are NO where even close to the FDA dosing.

[Enigma76]

Alright great, thank you to both of you.

I of course knew that you can't divulge the actual amount in today's day and age in this industry, I was just looking for some guidance towards what is deemed acceptable.

I look forward to some more logs on this product, as I am considering using it quite soon.

[Viperspit]

Originally Posted by Enigma76

Alright great, thank you to both of you.

I of course knew that you can't divulge the actual amount in today's day and age in this industry, I was just looking for some guidance towards what is deemed acceptable.

I look forward to some more logs on this product, as I am considering using it quite soon.

Adrenalean is solid. After Fit and I each logged it for the 3-day trial we immediately ordered 2 bottles. I am actually sampling another competing product at the moment but will definitely be doing a bottle of Adrenalean adnd seeing what it's fat buring potential is really like. The feeling on the product is great, smooth energy, very clean, no sides, no jitters, no crash.

[MuscleGuyinNY]

I'm always quite open-minded when it comes to anything thermogenic.