Ive been reading up in "building the perfect beast" and one of the main points of the book is action/reaction. How the body fights for homeostasis. He talks all about cortisol reduction post cycle which I never even considered untill LX came out and I think it is one of the best things since sliced bread for PCT.

One of the things he talks about though is how constant cortisol reduction of 3 weeks or more leads to a negative feedback loop in which the body ramps up ACTH from the Pituitary gland which causes increased cortisol production/release from the adrenal glands. The body is also ramping up normal cortisol production to get back to homeostasis and so once the cortisol drug is stopped cortisol levels reach very high levels again.

His solution to this was a 2day on/2 day off protocol which kept cortisol levels low, however didnt put the pituitary/adrenal glands into hyperactivity and didn't cause the body to start raising cortisol levels trying to establish homeostasis.

How do you guys from DS or anyone else feel about this. In theory it makes a lot of sense. Thoughts? Maybe Dr. D can chime in as well on this subject. I was thinking of doing the 2 day on/2 day off with LX. This would also allow you to use a slightly higher dosage on the on days and still use one whole bottle for PCT.

Bump.

I think this is an interesting question. Personally, I didn't have terribly good luck with LX but I'm not sure if it was due to that product or just a bad cycle/pct. Adrenal feedback loops seem to be poorly understood..yet they're ultra important.

Great question, I'd be interested to know as well

I'm interested in this topic also.

cortisol levels are high by the end of a cycle. so I wonder if when the ph are stopped cortisol levels would try to go back down and LX helps this process. also when I take LX I taper it down just like an anti e so there is no rebound. although I could be wrong.

Originally Posted by wastedwhiteboy2

cortisol levels are high by the end of a cycle. so I wonder if when the ph are stopped cortisol levels would try to go back down and LX helps this process. also when I take LX I taper it down just like an anti e so there is no rebound. although I could be wrong.

I think eventually the body would come back into homeostasis, but the elevated cortisol and estrogen levels at the end and directly after a cycle, mixed with the now very low androgen levels, mean Post cycle loss for us. Obviously this is the point of PCT.

I personally think Rebound/Activate/LX (Or similar) is a great PCT combination. The whole goal is to bring those high levels of estrogen and cortisol down quickly, along with boosting androgrens. (Activate - free test levels)

Another tactic L. Rea uses is initiating the anti-estrogen and anti-cortisol in the last 15 days of the cycle. This is when the body is starting to raise estrogen and cortisol, again to try and establish homeostasis against the high androgen levels. So by incorporating in the last 15 days, it keeps androgen levels higher longer, and also once the PH/PS is eliminated, there is no waiting for the estrogen/cortisol to lower, its already being kept at bay. Any thoughts on this guys?

It all seems to make complete sense to me and I really am looking differently at cycles now after reading this book. His whole approach is layering AAS cycles/pct/non AAS anabolic stages, so you are constantly responding to the bodies own action/reaction cycle and negative feeback loops.

I start with a low dose of LX and anti e the last week of a cycle to lower cortisol like ALR said. it seems to work for me.

Now, when the authors of the book talk about cortisol reduction, are they talking about a cortisol receptor antagonist? I ask this because 7OH DHEA isn't a receptor antagonist like RU486. It is more of a functional antagonist, meaning that cortisol can bind it's receptor and do its thing by going to the nucleus, but somehow the result is blocked (GR induced gene expression maybe?). So, the question is, does LX actually cause a feedback response that eventually results in increased cortisol? Maybe not, at least in the short term.

I found a Czech paper that showed 8 days of td 7OH-DHEA didn't increase cortisol significantly .

Clin Chem Lab Med. 2005;43(2):221-7.
Related Articles, Links

Delayed effects of short-term transdermal application of 7-oxo-dehydroepiandrosterone on its metabolites, some hormonal steroids and relevant proteohormones in healthy male volunteers.

Sulcova J, Hampl R, Hill M, Starka L, Novacek A.

Institute of Endocrinology, Prague, Czech Republic. jsulcova@endo.cz

Twenty-one healthy male volunteers aged 20-70 years were given transdermally 25 mg of 7-oxo-dehydroepiandrosterone daily in the form of an emulgel for 8 consecutive days. Morning blood was collected as follows: before application, and after the first, fourth and eighth doses (days 0, 2, 5 and 9), and then at different time intervals after termination of the treatment (days 16, 23, 37, 51, 72 and 100). Cortisol, testosterone, epitestosterone, estradiol, dehydroepiandrosterone and its sulfate, 7alpha- and 7beta-hydroxy-dehydroepiandrosterone, luteinizing hormone, follicle-stimulating hormone and sex hormone-binding globulin were measured in blood sera. In the course of treatment 7beta-hydroxy-dehydroepiandrosterone was significantly increased; testosterone and gonadotropins were lowered, but only after the first dose. All other significant changes were observed during the period after termination of the application:7beta-hydroxy-dehydroepiandrosterone remained increased for 28 days, 7alpha-hydroxy-dehydroepiandrosterone, testosterone, estradiol and sex hormone-binding globulin were decreased as late as day 63 and 91, respectively. On the other hand, epitestosterone was significantly increased between days 23 and 100. The levels of all other parameters studied were not significantly changed. The study points to an immediate as well as delayed effect of the short-term transdermal application of 7-oxo-dehydroepiandrosterone on relevant hormonal parameters.


Now, this only looks at an eight day dosing period, so the normal 3 to 4 week cycle used for PCT might wind up with different results. However, I would venture an educated guess that if you took RU486 for eight days straight, you would have a nice feedback loop started resulting in a significant rebound of cortisol. I guess the real question is what effects does 7OH-DHEA have on GR signaling in the HPTA axis? That question, so far as I can tell, really hasn't been well addressed in the literature.