4 ad cyp as opposed to sledge test

  1. New Member
    tommyboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Age
    34
    Posts
    226
    Answers
    0

    4 ad cyp as opposed to sledge test


    Im running a cycle very shortly and will be running 600 mg a week of 1 test cyp, But i dont know what to go with 4 ad cyp or sledge test as my stacker???? What would stack better with 1 test cyp and what would go better just on its own. What dosages also. Also keep in mind I will be running mohn for 4 weeks in the latter part of my cycle for a buffer from my last inject to PCT.

  2. New Member
    BigBadBootyDady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Age
    35
    Posts
    171
    Answers
    0

    With the Sledge test you most likely won't need an anti-e because of the 4 oht. Either one I would run between 1400-2000mgs per week.
  3. Super Lab Rat
    Sldge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    3,651
    Answers
    0

    either one would work well, the doses from above look good, you may get a little harder from the ST because of the OHT.
    •   
       

  4. New Member
    tommyboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Age
    34
    Posts
    226
    Answers
    0

    What is the OHT??? and what do you mean not anti E during cycle you mean right



    Quote Originally Posted by Designer Supps
    either one would work well, the doses from above look good, you may get a little harder from the ST because of the OHT.
  5. New Member
    Fpot66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Age
    31
    Posts
    109
    Answers
    0

    OHT or 4OHT is 4 Hydroxy Testosterone. 4OHT has some anti-estrogen properties. This may enable you to not have to use Nolva while on cycle to keep estrogen at bay from the 4AD.

    Fpot66
  6. New Member
    BigBadBootyDady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Age
    35
    Posts
    171
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by Fpot66
    OHT or 4OHT is 4 Hydroxy Testosterone. 4OHT has some anti-estrogen properties. This may enable you to not have to use Nolva while on cycle to keep estrogen at bay from the 4AD.

    Fpot66
    Exactly
  7. New Member
    tommyboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Age
    34
    Posts
    226
    Answers
    0

    so should I still consider takeing letro for the 10 weeks while im on or will the hydroxy test be suffcient?



    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadBootyDady
    Exactly
  8. Superman
    Manu20's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    4,076
    Answers
    0

    Try it with the hydroxy and then during the cycle decide whether or not you want to add the letro.
  9. Super Lab Rat
    Sldge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    3,651
    Answers
    0

    i dont think youll need the letro, but having some in case is a great option.
  10. Registered User
    jrkarp's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Age
    35
    Posts
    950
    Answers
    0

    I'm 2 weeks post cycle from a 4 week cycle of 1.5cc Sledge Test ed, with 15mg M1T ed and 75mg Fina ed... I used Letro during the cycle (1.25mg e3d) to keep estrogen down since I bloat a LOT from 4AD. No problems with bloating, gyno, or other estrogen related sides. I HIGHLY recommend letro for those who can get ahold of it for a decent price and have problems with bloating.

    Just my 2 cents.

    /karp
  11. Superman
    Manu20's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    4,076
    Answers
    0

    What type of results did you get from your cycle?
  12. She thinks my traps'rrrr sexy!
    supersoldier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    31
    Posts
    3,204
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by jrkarp
    I'm 2 weeks post cycle from a 4 week cycle of 1.5cc Sledge Test ed, with 15mg M1T ed and 75mg Fina ed... I used Letro during the cycle (1.25mg e3d) to keep estrogen down since I bloat a LOT from 4AD. No problems with bloating, gyno, or other estrogen related sides. I HIGHLY recommend letro for those who can get ahold of it for a decent price and have problems with bloating.

    Just my 2 cents.

    /karp
    Bump for results, that's hella high dosing Sldge Test, WITH M1T AND tren . Sounds like my kind of cycle
  13. New Member
    tommyboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Age
    34
    Posts
    226
    Answers
    0

    Do you have to shoot Sledge test every day since your working with4 ad prop now and not cyp?



    Quote Originally Posted by supersoldier
    Bump for results, that's hella high dosing Sldge Test, WITH M1T AND tren . Sounds like my kind of cycle
  14. She thinks my traps'rrrr sexy!
    supersoldier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    31
    Posts
    3,204
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by tommyboy
    Do you have to shoot Sledge test every day since your working with4 ad prop now and not cyp?
    At least EOD.
  15. Registered User
    jrkarp's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Age
    35
    Posts
    950
    Answers
    0

    I had never used Fina before and my bodyfat was relatively high (18%), so I decided to experiment with a very clean bulker/body recomp cycle. All told, I gained about 12 pounds (and have kept 8 thus far, so about 4 was water), and I estimate that I lost between 2 and 3% bodyfat. Strength, however, was through the roof and it doesn't really seem like I lost much (if any), probably because I followed the Swale HCG protocol (I will NEVER cycle without HCG ever again).

    Overall, I was thrilled with the results of the cycle... I had heard that Fina was great for body recomp but I didn't really think that I could lose bodyfat while gaining lean mass. I have to run my bulkers pretty clean because I have a ridiculously slow metabolism, but I ran this one cleaner than most.

    /karp
  16. Registered User
    jrkarp's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Age
    35
    Posts
    950
    Answers
    0

    Oh, and BTW, on that high dosage of Sledge Test, I felt ****ing fantastic and incredibly horny 24/7, despite the M1T and Tren.

    /karp
  17. Super Lab Rat
    Sldge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    3,651
    Answers
    0

    What was the Swale HCG cycle, anyone have a link?
  18. Advanced Member
    Jeff's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Age
    44
    Posts
    641
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by Designer Supps
    What was the Swale HCG cycle, anyone have a link?
    http://www.intense-training.com/foru...ead.php?t=9945
    Here is the pct protocol by Swale who is a Doctor who is a HRT specialist.


    My PCT Protocol
    Since I've been hanging out here a bit lately, I've been getting quite a few emails from guys wanting individualized advice on their cycles. In the first place, I cannot design cycles, nor do I prescribe steroids (just ancillary medications). That would be a violation of my Oath as a physician, and DEA law to boot. Also, obviously I cannot afford to give away free Consultations. So, I'll post my PCT Protocols here, for anyone who may choose to use them.

    Also, I'm just running to catch a plane for Las Vegas, attending the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine International Conference. I guess they are supposed to publish an article I wrote on how to administer TRT for men. Wish me luck!

    Here it is:

    I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

    Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

    If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

    The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

    I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge?. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool? the body—it is smarter than you are.

    I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).

    All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.
  19. Registered User
    kwyckemynd00's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Age
    31
    Posts
    5,324
    Answers
    0

    That's a freggin' awesome link / article; thanks

    Edit: Oh and he mentioned taking 20-40mg/QD (for example). Now, I'm assuming that's the same as ED b/c of the dosage; I've just never seen it referred to as QD. Am I right in this assumption?
  20. Advanced Member
    jjjd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    703
    Answers
    0

    q.d. (qd or QD) is once a day. q.d. stands for "quaque die" (which means, in Latin, once a day).

    hth
  21. Super Lab Rat
    Sldge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    3,651
    Answers
    0

    good post and thank you, ill have to check it out.
  22. Registered User
    kwyckemynd00's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Age
    31
    Posts
    5,324
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by jjjd
    q.d. (qd or QD) is once a day. q.d. stands for "quaque die" (which means, in Latin, once a day).

    hth
    Ahh, thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by DesignerSupps
    ...
    Hey Sldge, could you give us an update on your thougths re: Swale's recommendations.

    I was startled with the one month of PCT rule v. the rule of thumb 1 wk PCT per wk ON Cycle....
  23. She thinks my traps'rrrr sexy!
    supersoldier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    31
    Posts
    3,204
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by kwyckemynd00
    Hey Sldge, could you give us an update on your thougths re: Swale's recommendations.

    I was startled with the one month of PCT rule v. the rule of thumb 1 wk PCT per wk ON Cycle....
    I'm not Sldge, but what the hell...

    I've been on for a long time (6 months). If I'm using HCG throughout with a Swale protocol, which I have, and I'm getting more soon, there's no way I'm gonna need 6 months of PCT. I'll venture to "guess" that natural testosterone production is restored faster coming off my cycle with HCG, than coming off an 8 week similar suppressive cycle with no HCG. Just an educated guess, but I will find out soon enough.
  24. Registered User
    kwyckemynd00's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Age
    31
    Posts
    5,324
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by supersoldier
    I'm not Sldge, but what the hell...

    I've been on for a long time (6 months). If I'm using HCG throughout with a Swale protocol, which I have, and I'm getting more soon, there's no way I'm gonna need 6 months of PCT. I'll venture to "guess" that natural testosterone production is restored faster coming off my cycle with HCG, than coming off an 8 week similar suppressive cycle with no HCG. Just an educated guess, but I will find out soon enough.
    Damn!! 6 months!! Wow, I'd be interested to see your before and after stats. Are they posted anywhere? (I'll search it )

    Well, thanks for your help again. I appreciate it. P.S. When you finish your Swale PCT, can you give us an update?
  25. She thinks my traps'rrrr sexy!
    supersoldier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    31
    Posts
    3,204
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by kwyckemynd00

    Well, thanks for your help again. I appreciate it. P.S. When you finish your Swale PCT, can you give us an update?
    You mean when I finish my "Swale Cycle"

    I plan on putting up before/after pics, stats, ect sometime soon. Along with lab values for my PCT, I'm just waiting for a few things.
  26. Registered User
    kwyckemynd00's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Age
    31
    Posts
    5,324
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by supersoldier
    You mean when I finish my "Swale Cycle"

    I plan on putting up before/after pics, stats, ect sometime soon. Along with lab values for my PCT, I'm just waiting for a few things.
    EDIT: Got it
    Last edited by kwyckemynd00; 09-24-2004 at 02:31 AM.
  27. She thinks my traps'rrrr sexy!
    supersoldier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    31
    Posts
    3,204
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by kwyckemynd00
    Cool, sounds great!

    BTW, how do you have such convenient lab access? Are you in the med. field of the military? (Just curious...I wish I had that access )
    Check your PM.
  28. New Member
    tommyboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Age
    34
    Posts
    226
    Answers
    0

    how much$$$ have you dropped on using the swale protocol throughout your cycle







    Quote Originally Posted by supersoldier
    Check your PM.
  29. Super Lab Rat
    Sldge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    3,651
    Answers
    0

    i havent had a chance to read through the whole protocol. i normally like a 8-10 week pct with a clomid/hcg nolva mix. i have tried running a nolva only pct and di well with it and now that my 7-oxo is done ill start using that as well. but i am really just going to have to try it and see if it needs tweaking or not.
  30. She thinks my traps'rrrr sexy!
    supersoldier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    31
    Posts
    3,204
    Answers
    0

    Quote Originally Posted by Designer Supps
    i havent had a chance to read through the whole protocol. i normally like a 8-10 week pct with a clomid/hcg nolva mix. i have tried running a nolva only pct and di well with it and now that my 7-oxo is done ill start using that as well. but i am really just going to have to try it and see if it needs tweaking or not.
    Swale's protocol in a nutshell is basically using 250 iu HCG E3D or so throughout your cycle. This keeps the Leydig cells producing testosterone, even in the presence of exogenous hormones when your LH is bottomed out. So you're shut down at the hypothalmus but not the testes. Then when you come off completely with nolva, the leydig cells receive the signal from LH to produce test much more quickly. Faster recovery, more gains kept. Not to mention having big balls and shooting huge loads throughout your cycle, total testosterone being about ~600ng/dl (+/-) higher while on (vs. not using HCG throughout), and feeling much, much healthier overall IMO.
  31. Super Lab Rat
    Sldge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    3,651
    Answers
    0

    Sounds like its a good idea, definetly worth trying.
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 04-12-2010, 01:29 PM
  2. Gemma Protein as opposed to whey?
    By Irish Cannon in forum Nutrition / Health
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 12-10-2008, 08:15 PM
  3. How to absorb 5% or 10% cream as opposed to 1% also which is best?
    By 1Ainslie in forum Male Anti-Aging Medicine
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 03-21-2007, 05:22 PM
  4. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-21-2007, 06:07 AM
  5. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 08-31-2006, 04:47 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in