How low...

CryingEmo

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Can you cut your calories per day while on a cutting cycle?

Say you're on 250-300mg test-e for 8 weeks. (this is after 8 weeks of bulking)

Could you go 1500 cals below maintenance and still maintain muscle?


:pizza:
 
supersoldier

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What other supps? IMO that's too little gear for that little calories.
 
CryingEmo

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What other supps? IMO that's too little gear for that little calories.
So how much gear do you need to cut that much?


I mean how many could you cut with 300.


Would 400 be enough?

What other supps do you recommend?
 
supersoldier

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Just to clarify, you already did 8 weeks of 250-300mg/week of Test-E on a bulk, now you wanna do the same dose and cut for 8 more weeks?
 
CryingEmo

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Just to clarify, you already did 8 weeks of 250-300mg/week of Test-E on a bulk, now you wanna do the same dose and cut for 8 more weeks?
I did 8-9 weeks of 250 mg Every 4 days.
 
supersoldier

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I did 8-9 weeks of 250 mg Every 4 days.
Okay, so that's just under 500mg/week. Sounds much better.

What's your height/weight/estimated bf% now? How much do you want to cut to, etc.?
 
CryingEmo

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Okay, so that's just under 500mg/week. Sounds much better.

What's your height/weight/estimated bf% now? How much do you want to cut to, etc.?
6'7/250/18% with some possible bloat from test.

I'd like to cut 20 lb's lol.
 
supersoldier

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Personally I wouldn't drop calories too low, just not worth the strength loss. Even if you don't lose too much muscle, you won't really make any gains.

I would drop calories to maybe maintenance -500 at most, add cardio, and add something to help with anabolism/anti-catabolism.

You could add an oral, like Epistane. Maybe Anavar or Winny if you have a source.


Or add something like IGF-1. I've heard great things about HGH frag too as far as being completely specific to fatloss.

Clenbuterol would help out lots too.

I am a big advocate of using as much gear to get the job done while dieting as clean as possible, but cut calories too low and watch your precious gains go down the drain.
 

PumpingIron

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You should really have these things planned out ahead of time. But you are planning on extending your cycle to 16 weeks...

Whats you cycle experience?

And whats you diet look like now and is planning on looking like?


Just as initial impression, that is way to low of a caloric deficit at your size.
 
CryingEmo

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Thanks bro.


For some reason I though you could cut alot more on a minimum dose.


What about t3 versus clen?
 
supersoldier

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Thanks bro.


For some reason I though you could cut alot more on a minimum dose.


What about t3 versus clen?
I'm not into thyroid hormones. I used Trimax a while back and my thyroid levels didn't go back to normal for a lonnnnnnng time. Probably had to do with my AA S abuse too though. Plus T3 is extremely catabolic, so you'd need even more gear to starve catabolism. I'd just run the clen myself, if you can deal w/ the sides. Clen is anti-catabolic as well.
 

PumpingIron

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I dont believe that clen is anti-catabolic...studys have never showed this in humans...
 
CryingEmo

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Maybe i should just keep my dose @ 500 mg's a week and cut on that... and i could handle more of a caloric deficit.
 

PumpingIron

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Good idea. Guage your defincit on your results. If you are losing too much or too little each week, adjust you macros and kcals.
 
CryingEmo

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You should really have these things planned out ahead of time. But you are planning on extending your cycle to 16 weeks...

Whats you cycle experience?

And whats you diet look like now and is planning on looking like?


Just as initial impression, that is way to low of a caloric deficit at your size.
I have absolutely no problem eating clean.


This is my first cycle btw, and I planned on only doing test.

I figured I would lose fat on cycle and that didn't seem to happen, so I realized I needed to cut.
 

PumpingIron

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the fact that this is your first cycle. I would hesitate to extend it to 16 weeks.
 

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well, first off your gains on this and further cycles are going to be less than they could be.

Just because you are running ancillary hormones like HCG and have torem for pct, doesn't mean you aren't going to do any harm.

The norm for first cycles are 10-12 weeks and is something I agree with, to help the user deal with shutdown and keep gains.

Sorry I'm on a conference call right now, not thinking too ahrd...
 
CryingEmo

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well, first off your gains on this and further cycles are going to be less than they could be.

Just because you are running ancillary hormones like HCG and have torem for post cycle therapy, doesn't mean you aren't going to do any harm.

The norm for first cycles are 10-12 weeks and is something I agree with, to help the user deal with shutdown and keep gains.

Sorry I'm on a conference call right now, not thinking too ahrd...
Honestly, my highest amount of test used was 427 mg a week if you mutiply 250 mg X 2, and divide by 8 (which is every 4 days)

I didn't kickstart or use lipid killing AI's. My diet has been on point, and I have been taking cycle support, and other supplements.

How harmful is this compared to everything else I see with first timers doing 3 substances, and 750 mg test a week, dbol, etc?
 

PumpingIron

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I am not talking about harmful to your organs like your liver and kidneys...but more so on you natural hormone productions...
 
CryingEmo

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I am not talking about harmful to your organs like your liver and kidneys...but more so on you natural hormone productions...
Ok, I'll take your advice. What 14 weeks be pushing it?


What if I ran epistane @ 20 mg's along w/ test 400mg a week for the last 4-6 weeks to cut. Reasonable?
 

PumpingIron

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I like that idea...I would personally run it like this...

13, Test 400, Epi 20
14, Test 400, Epi 20
15, Epi 30
16, EPi 30
17+ PCT
 
CryingEmo

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I like that idea...I would personally run it like this...

13, Test 400, Epi 20
14, Test 400, Epi 20
15, Epi 30
16, EPi 30
17+ post cycle therapy
Well considering this is week 9ish, don't you think it would be pushing it if I ran it until week 16?

I'm guessing epi would dry me out and help with the cut alot?
 
CryingEmo

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I'm guessing Epistane is out of stock everywhere lol.
 

PumpingIron

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You said you wanted to run test until week 14, or did I misunderstand?

I assumed you were running eth or cyp...meaning you need to wait two weeks before starting pct...
 
CryingEmo

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You said you wanted to run test until week 14, or did I misunderstand?

I assumed you were running eth or cyp...meaning you need to wait two weeks before starting post cycle therapy...
Even so, that would still be running anabolics that are suppressive for 16 weeks which you suggested against for first timers. I was open to the idea of making it shorter. I'm 100% open to ideas.

That's interesting to end on epi w/ no test.
 

PumpingIron

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Well, what I'm planning on doing is running test for 12 weeks and closing it out with some orals, overlapping and then during the two weeks i'm waiting for the long ester to clear...
 
CryingEmo

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Well, what I'm planning on doing is running test for 12 weeks and closing it out with some orals, overlapping and then during the two weeks i'm waiting for the long ester to clear...
That sounds good. Maybe i'll just run till 14 and overlap from week 10-14 w/ epi. If it ever becomes availible.
 

PumpingIron

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It has been backordered a while, huh? That kind of sucks...What about Havoc or Hemuguno?
 

PumpingIron

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you haven't read threw any of the new threads? They're basically all saying Havoc is 60% what it says and 40% something else but is the correct molecular weight and Epistane is light. I personally don't buy into any of it though...
 
CryingEmo

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you haven't read threw any of the new threads? They're basically all saying Havoc is 60% what it says and 40% something else but is the correct molecular weight and Epistane is light. I personally don't buy into any of it though...
I think I read that one, but they were still waiting for test results.
 
supersoldier

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Epi might be around in limited supply shortly, keep your eyes out.
 
supersoldier

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I'm not gonna speculate...

Hey bro, just thought of something. I'd be willing to bet that MassFx would be a SICK stacker with your test/HCG. It should bump your test and free test levels through the roof.
 

PumpingIron

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Come on...mister rep...haha.


As for the MassFX, I agree, I've tried it and I am definately a huge believer in that product.
 
supersoldier

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Come on...mister rep...haha.


As for the MassFX, I agree, I've tried it and I am definately a huge believer in that product.
I can only imagine how well it would stack with test or hcg, let alone BOTH!:eek:
 
CryingEmo

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I haven't heard much about MassFX. :think:
 

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