Test cyp with SD kickstart, and low dose Winstrol/LGD cycle

Darlz

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Hey guys, So Im getting ready to start this cycle in a week or so. Im about 6 weeks removed from my last PCT and Im getting a little antsy as all my gear has come in. My Final plan is this:
Test Cyp 400mg weeks 1-12
Superdrol @ 20/20/20/30(might keep it at 20mgs) for weeks 1-4
LGD-4033 10mgs weeks 6-12
Winstrol 30 mgs weeks 6-12
HCG 500IU's a weeks 2-12
Adex .5 mg E3D

PCT: Clomid @ 100/50/50/25 and Nolva 20/20/20/10/10

I will also be running Tudca and NAC as well as a bevy of other vitamins and support supps like Glucosamine, Hawthorneberry, and Fish oil, as well as a Multi. I originally really wanted to combine Test AND Trest, simply because Im stocked up on a bunch of Trest, But I decided to drop the Trest and save it for another day. I think Trest with Test and the other compounds would simply be way too much. Diet will depend on 4500-5000 Calories and 220- 240 grams of protein per day. Im basically just waiting on my spikes to arrive in the mail to get started. I originally planned to wait longer because I did a Trest SDMZ stack back in December and some of January, PCT ended around end of Jan early Feb. So basically Im like 10 weeks from the time I started my PCT. Do you guys think Im starting too soon? Any other input or suggestions would be greatly appreciated as I highly value the opinion of the members here. Thanks guys!
 
unreal89

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I have trouble with time off too I should have waited I will be taking about a 6-7 month break and then I'm moving on to pinning cycle
 
BamBam0319

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I would save the LGD, and maybe bump winny up to 50
 

Darlz

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I would save the LGD, and maybe bump winny up to 50
My thought process behind it was 50 mgs of Winny used to make my joints feel like ****. So I figured Id use the LGD to gain a few extra pounds of mass, plus ive read that it can have positive effects on the joints, while using the Winny to harden up. I was also concerned that Sdrol for the first 4 weeks followed by 2 weeks off then 6 weeks of winny @50mgs might be alot on the liver no?
 

Darlz

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I have trouble with time off too I should have waited I will be taking about a 6-7 month break and then I'm moving on to pinning cycle
See I usually take some extended time in between cycles. Im thinking I just might get bloods done to make sure Im fully recovered. I feel fine, Weight is up, and so is the strength. My doodleberries have felt full and normal size for weeks. Plus I figured I have about as good as a protection protocol as you can have being that Im using HCG alongside the Test....
 
BamBam0319

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My thought process behind it was 50 mgs of Winny used to make my joints feel like ****. So I figured Id use the LGD to gain a few extra pounds of mass, plus ive read that it can have positive effects on the joints, while using the Winny to harden up. I was also concerned that Sdrol for the first 4 weeks followed by 2 weeks off then 6 weeks of winny @50mgs might be alot on the liver no?
It's gonna be hard on the liver no matter what dose you run the winny at, not to mention the LGD stacked on top of it.
 

whiteboystomp

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Hey guys, So Im getting ready to start this cycle in a week or so. Im about 6 weeks removed from my last PCT and Im getting a little antsy as all my gear has come in. My Final plan is this:
Test Cyp 400mg weeks 1-12
Superdrol @ 20/20/20/30(might keep it at 20mgs) for weeks 1-4
LGD-4033 10mgs weeks 6-12
Winstrol 30 mgs weeks 6-12
HCG 500IU's a weeks 2-12
Adex .5 mg E3D

PCT: Clomid @ 100/50/50/25 and Nolva 20/20/20/10/10

I will also be running Tudca and NAC as well as a bevy of other vitamins and support supps like Glucosamine, Hawthorneberry, and Fish oil, as well as a Multi. I originally really wanted to combine Test AND Trest, simply because Im stocked up on a bunch of Trest, But I decided to drop the Trest and save it for another day. I think Trest with Test and the other compounds would simply be way too much. Diet will depend on 4500-5000 Calories and 220- 240 grams of protein per day. Im basically just waiting on my spikes to arrive in the mail to get started. I originally planned to wait longer because I did a Trest SDMZ stack back in December and some of January, PCT ended around end of Jan early Feb. So basically Im like 10 weeks from the time I started my PCT. Do you guys think Im starting too soon? Any other input or suggestions would be greatly appreciated as I highly value the opinion of the members here. Thanks guys!
how many cycles under your belt?
have you run bloods since last cycle?
and it appears your goal is mass?- thus the addition of the lgd?

I've got input but need to know these first, please
 

Darlz

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how many cycles under your belt?
have you run bloods since last cycle?
and it appears your goal is mass?- thus the addition of the lgd?

I've got input but need to know these first, please
Im 32... I have several injectible cycles under my belt, all of them used a 10 or 12 week Test base(usually either Cyp or Enth, ive never used prop). Ive used Dbol, Winny, Deca as far as more traditional gear. Ive also used SDMZ, Trest, Sdrol, Epistane/Tren (back when Spawn was around). The last time I ran a cycle with injectibles was when I was 26. I had some shoulder issues(Im a union worker) after tearing my labrum not too long after the cycle. I took time off to let my body heal, and because I started to get out of control with the partying. Anyways to make a long story short, I quit partying and became a health nut again a little over 2 years ago. My body and shoulder actually feel better now than at certain points in my 20's. A large part of that is because of how committed I am now. Hopefully this helps. I appreciate the input fellas.
 

Darlz

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Also, My goal for this cycle is a bulk but more of a lean bulk. Im currently 5'11 and somewhere in between 190-195. My goal is to be about 210-215, while maintaining my current body fat percentage which is probably around 10%... This is gonna be my log so Ill post pics later on.. This way you get a Before and After affect.
 

whiteboystomp

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Also, My goal for this cycle is a bulk but more of a lean bulk. Im currently 5'11 and somewhere in between 190-195. My goal is to be about 210-215, while maintaining my current body fat percentage which is probably around 10%... This is gonna be my log so Ill post pics later on.. This way you get a Before and After affect.
alright ... cool.

seeng as you are so close off a prohormone cycle - get bloods run before starting to make sure everything is good to go. lipids need to be right because the sdrol is going to wreak havoc on your system.

personally, I'm not a fan of oral kickstarts, I prefer running them on the backend ...but it is what it is.

based on my experience - here is my opinion. just my .02.

based on what you are trying to get out of this -if it was my cycle -- I would do one of two things:

1:run you test @ 400/wk 1-12, with the sdrol on the back 4 weeks. you will pleasantly surprised
sdrol is ****ing awesome -- but its VERY hard on your system. you've run it before - so you know what I mean. I prefer it do abombs because it is much drier - its actually a great finisher to an overall wet cycle (longer estered test).

optimally -- if hell bent on running a 12 week cycle with the winny with sdrol kickstart, I would:

1: reduce the test to 300/wk
2: swap out oral winny for injectable.
your lipids could be wrecked from the sdrol - so injectable winny will be much less toxic on the liver.
3: add in 300 mg/wk npp along side the winny. this will extend your mass building without the bloat, and help alleviate/eliminate the joint issues from the winny.
I would add the npp regardless of what form winny.

my recs if you keep you cycle as is (oral winny):

dump the lgd
dump the hcg
swap adex for aromasin at 12.5 eod
make it a 14 week cycle with the winny coming in at 8-14. you really need that 4 weeks off from the sdrol.
 

Darlz

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alright ... cool.

seeng as you are so close off a prohormone cycle - get bloods run before starting to make sure everything is good to go. lipids need to be right because the sdrol is going to wreak havoc on your system.

personally, I'm not a fan of oral kickstarts, I prefer running them on the backend ...but it is what it is.

based on my experience - here is my opinion. just my .02.

based on what you are trying to get out of this -if it was my cycle -- I would do one of two things:

1:run you test @ 400/wk 1-12, with the sdrol on the back 4 weeks. you will pleasantly surprised
sdrol is ****ing awesome -- but its VERY hard on your system. you've run it before - so you know what I mean. I prefer it do abombs because it is much drier - its actually a great finisher to an overall wet cycle (longer estered test).

optimally -- if hell bent on running a 12 week cycle with the winny with sdrol kickstart, I would:

1: reduce the test to 300/wk
2: swap out oral winny for injectable.
your lipids could be wrecked from the sdrol - so injectable winny will be much less toxic on the liver.
3: add in 300 mg/wk npp along side the winny. this will extend your mass building without the bloat, and help alleviate/eliminate the joint issues from the winny.
I would add the npp regardless of what form winny.

my recs if you keep you cycle as is (oral winny):

dump the lgd
dump the hcg
swap adex for aromasin at 12.5 eod
make it a 14 week cycle with the winny coming in at 8-14. you really need that 4 weeks off from the sdrol.

Not a fan of HCG? The only reason I have Adex instead of Aromasin is because my source was out of it. I actually prefer Aromasin as an AI. I was only using the Sdrol as a kickstart simply because Ive used in the past and I like the fact that it helps you start making gains early in the cycle while the Cyp is building up. I guess I never considered using it as a Finisher. Im certainly entertaining the idea. Im also gonna follow your recommendation for Injectible Winny vs oral.
 

Darlz

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Also, Im gonna follow your advice and get bloods done to make sure my lipids are GTG..
 

whiteboystomp

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good deal --- like I said -- throw in some npp in there -- you'll love it. no reason to run test higher on cycle like this. got some good things working, bro ...

good deal on the bloods! safety first ... lol... but seriously.

I like it ... good luck, my man ... should be a fun one once you get past the sdrol sides, lol ...
 

Darlz

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good deal --- like I said -- throw in some npp in there -- you'll love it. no reason to run test higher on cycle like this. got some good things working, bro ...

good deal on the bloods! safety first ... lol... but seriously.

I like it ... good luck, my man ... should be a fun one once you get past the sdrol sides, lol ...
Any reason why you think I should drop the HCG out of curiousity? My reason for buying it was the fact that im 32, Im engaged, and I dont have kids yet but my old lady wants them in the next few years.. So I figured its better to be safe than sorry. Figured recovery would be much better. Definitely gonna look into adding the NPP as well. I appreciate the advice brother.
 

whiteboystomp

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one more thing --- I'd boost that daily protein intake up another 100-150.
 

Darlz

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one more thing --- I'd boost that daily protein intake up another 100-150.
So somewhere in between 320 and 370 grams of protein per day? Sounds good. I know Sdrol is very carb and nutrient dependent, especially when your trying to bulk.
 
BamBam0319

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I kinda did something similar to this for my current cycle.
I did:
sdrol kickstart 20/20/30
Test e 100mg/week 1-4, 200mg/week 5-8
Tren ace 50mg/day (350mg/week 1-8) first 10 days did 30mg/day to get accustomed
Oral winstrol 50mg/day week 6-
Haven't decided how long I'll run the winny, I'm in week 6 now. Just started the winny on Monday. I'll probably taper the test up as the tren leaves the cycle and just do test/winny for 4 weeks or so past the tren. I also have enough sdrol left for 4 weeks at 20mg but I'll probably save that for another time.
I actually really liked having test at such a low dosage, it let the tren work it's magic while replacing my natural test levels. I've felt great this entire cycle.
 

whiteboystomp

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just not a fan of it ... used it once or twice, always recovered nicely without it. some people swear by it ... personally, I think it creates a hormonal ****storm. adding yet another compound to make your body produce something that another compound is shutting down.

but that's just me...


you got man ...
 

Darlz

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just not a fan of it ... used it once or twice, always recovered nicely without it. some people swear by it ... personally, I think it creates a hormonal ****storm. adding yet another compound to make your body produce something that another compound is shutting down.

but that's just me...


you got man ...
Awesome. Thanks again brother.
 

whiteboystomp

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I kinda did something similar to this for my current cycle.
I did:
sdrol kickstart 20/20/30
Test e 100mg/week 1-4, 200mg/week 5-8
Tren ace 50mg/day (350mg/week 1-8) first 10 days did 30mg/day to get accustomed
Oral winstrol 50mg/day week 6-
Haven't decided how long I'll run the winny, I'm in week 6 now. Just started the winny on Monday. I'll probably taper the test up as the tren leaves the cycle and just do test/winny for 4 weeks or so past the tren. I also have enough sdrol left for 4 weeks at 20mg but I'll probably save that for another time.
I actually really liked having test at such a low dosage, it let the tren work it's magic while replacing my natural test levels. I've felt great this entire cycle.
damn right brother ... I love to hear that. seems everyone wants to run ****loads of test with every cycle. keeping it right at or slightly above a trt dose helps eliminate a helluva lot of sides people endure, AND, like you said -- lets the main compound shine.

try it with a deca run -- you'll love that too. seems a lot of people complain about bloat and deca dick, and they raise their test thinking it will boost libido. actually works the opposite way. the sides are created from an e2 and/or prolactin issue (which is caused from an estro problem anyway) ... adding more test only worsens it.
 

Darlz

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I kinda did something similar to this for my current cycle.
I did:
sdrol kickstart 20/20/30
Test e 100mg/week 1-4, 200mg/week 5-8
Tren ace 50mg/day (350mg/week 1-8) first 10 days did 30mg/day to get accustomed
Oral winstrol 50mg/day week 6-
Haven't decided how long I'll run the winny, I'm in week 6 now. Just started the winny on Monday. I'll probably taper the test up as the tren leaves the cycle and just do test/winny for 4 weeks or so past the tren. I also have enough sdrol left for 4 weeks at 20mg but I'll probably save that for another time.
I actually really liked having test at such a low dosage, it let the tren work it's magic while replacing my natural test levels. I've felt great this entire cycle.
Good stuff bro. I actually may drop the test from 400mg per week to 300. Seems like, when running other compounds with Test, alot of people see cleaner results on lower doses. I had always been under the traditional impression that Test had to be run at 400mgs - 500mgs minimum to really feel the full effect. That seems to be more of an old school train of thought now.
 
BamBam0319

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damn right brother ... I love to hear that. seems everyone wants to run ****loads of test with every cycle. keeping it right at or slightly above a trt dose helps eliminate a helluva lot of sides people endure, AND, like you said -- lets the main compound shine.

try it with a deca run -- you'll love that too. seems a lot of people complain about bloat and deca dick, and they raise their test thinking it will boost libido. actually works the opposite way. the sides are created from an e2 and/or prolactin issue (which is caused from an estro problem anyway) ... adding more test only worsens it.
Exactly. My first cycle was 600 test and 500 deca. No libido problems, but I had moon face like a motherf*cker and the nips were puffy as hell.

Next cycle is a long bulk, EQ/test and anadrol. Keeping test at 500 most likely and taking EQ from 600 probably up to 1200 by the end.
 
BamBam0319

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Good stuff bro. I actually may drop the test from 400mg per week to 300. Seems like, when running other compounds with Test, alot of people see cleaner results on lower doses. I had always been under the traditional impression that Test had to be run at 400mgs - 500mgs minimum to really feel the full effect. That seems to be more of an old school train of thought now.
I think you're right. I think that if you were doing a test only cycle then that dosage would be appropriate... However when stacking with other compounds, all you really need is to replace what you're suppressing while using those other compounds.
 

whiteboystomp

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I think you're right. I think that if you were doing a test only cycle then that dosage would be appropriate... However when stacking with other compounds, all you really need is to replace what you're suppressing while using those other compounds.
my sentiments exactly ... I mean, if I was working for my pro card or something, might be different. but, ****, i'm just trying to look good naked, brotha -- and not feel like total **** and kill myself in the process. this is a marathon, man ... not a sprint.
 

whiteboystomp

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Exactly. My first cycle was 600 test and 500 deca. No libido problems, but I had moon face like a motherf*cker and the nips were puffy as hell.

Next cycle is a long bulk, EQ/test and anadrol. Keeping test at 500 most likely and taking EQ from 600 probably up to 1200 by the end.

ahhhh ... EQ - one of my favorites. I cruise on it ... lol. seriously.

yes, it is long estered, but you don't HAVE to run it for 20 freakin weeks to get results ... that's pure bro science. 12-16 will more than suffice.

I do like the fact, at least it read like you were going to, of raising the dosage as you go. typical stall out with any cycle is going to be about 6-8 weeks. thus, I said I like to run the orals on the backend. this extends my cycle for a few weeks because new compounds are being introduced. raising dosages does the same.

16 weeks for me would be the sweet spot in what you are doing.
1-8 test 250/EQ 600
9-16 test 400/EQ 900-1000
13-16 Abombs - watch your diet - and you love the way this finishes. eat like **** and you'll bloat.

be careful though, homie ... EQ will raise rbc and hematocrit levels. make sure to give blood every 4 weeks or so. after the first pull, have labs done and make sure within proper values, or close to it. if values still off the charts -- go back and give blood again and tell the to pull "double reds". this is when they take twice the amount of rbc as normal. should help. also ... abombs can be a bitch on BP and other values --- coupled with the EQ - just make sure to keep an eye on things.
 

Darlz

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Just wanted to update where Im at: got Blood work done the other day with my primary. He called me yesterday to let me know that everything is in range as far as my Test levels, LH, FSH, etc. Hes sending me a copy of the results so Ill be able to use exact numbers. But briefly over the phone, he told my results are excellent for a 32 year old man. Cholesterol is a little high, but not dangerously high. I can adjust this.

As for my cycle, I decided right now that Im gonna drop the LGD from the cycle for now. One of the reasons, I was thinking of running it was because I had read that it has Ostarine like effects on Joint healing, which you thing would be nice to run along Winni. But some of my more recent research leads me to believe that may be a myth. I also decided to stick with Oral Winnie because.... Well i dont wanna have to pin everyday. Im not a huge fan of needles as it is. Its not so much a pain issue, as much as it is a mental thing. I just never got comfortable with the idea of being stabbed by something. Plus I have to self inject. So the Cycle will be as follows: Test cyp weeks 1-12 400mgs (200mgs on monday and then again on Thursday). Superdrol weeks 1-4 @ 10/20/20/20 Winstrol weeks 7-12 @ 40mgs per day. HCG @ 250IU's every 3 days starting from week 4 forward. Adex only if necessary.

Now, Some may say why 40 and not 50? Comes down to how many I have and can run it for. Plus Im hoping that 40mgs might be a bit easier on the joints than 50mgs. I actually administered the first shot yesterday and started the Sdrol. Starting Weight of this Cycle is 189. Ill post some pics a lil later after work. Im actually surprised, I shot into my delt yesterday with a 25G 5/8 an I heat up the Cyp before injection and went very smoothly. Shoulder was achy for about 30 minutes afterwards, but beyond that, very happy that went well.
 

whiteboystomp

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Just wanted to update where Im at: got Blood work done the other day with my primary. He called me yesterday to let me know that everything is in range as far as my Test levels, LH, FSH, etc. Hes sending me a copy of the results so Ill be able to use exact numbers. But briefly over the phone, he told my results are excellent for a 32 year old man. Cholesterol is a little high, but not dangerously high. I can adjust this.

As for my cycle, I decided right now that Im gonna drop the LGD from the cycle for now. One of the reasons, I was thinking of running it was because I had read that it has Ostarine like effects on Joint healing, which you thing would be nice to run along Winni. But some of my more recent research leads me to believe that may be a myth. I also decided to stick with Oral Winnie because.... Well i dont wanna have to pin everyday. Im not a huge fan of needles as it is. Its not so much a pain issue, as much as it is a mental thing. I just never got comfortable with the idea of being stabbed by something. Plus I have to self inject. So the Cycle will be as follows: Test cyp weeks 1-12 400mgs (200mgs on monday and then again on Thursday). Superdrol weeks 1-4 @ 10/20/20/20 Winstrol weeks 7-12 @ 40mgs per day. HCG @ 250IU's every 3 days starting from week 4 forward. Adex only if necessary.

Now, Some may say why 40 and not 50? Comes down to how many I have and can run it for. Plus Im hoping that 40mgs might be a bit easier on the joints than 50mgs. I actually administered the first shot yesterday and started the Sdrol. Starting Weight of this Cycle is 189. Ill post some pics a lil later after work. Im actually surprised, I shot into my delt yesterday with a 25G 5/8 an I heat up the Cyp before injection and went very smoothly. Shoulder was achy for about 30 minutes afterwards, but beyond that, very happy that went well.
right on, brother ...

overall, I like the setup - glad you dropped the LGD. I am not a fan at all of research chems (sarms). the way I look at it - there is a reason they are called "research", lol ... and personally I would rather deal with drugs that are proven. assuming they are legit of course.

seems like you've done your homework and research, and thought this thing through well.

only recommendation at this point is to check bloods again a couple of weeks after the sdrol, definitely before you start the Winnie. sdrol can absolutely wreck your lipids.

be safe -- and kill this ****, my man.

please keep posting updates - I'm in to follow!!
 

Darlz

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Update: Unfortunately it looks like my source sent me Winstrol depot instead of the tabs. I've read that you can still take the depot orally but I'm considering just pinning it when that time comes. How bad is the pip for you guys? I keep reading about abcess's with it. I originally didn't wanna pin everyday but if the pip isn't as bad then I may just try it.
 
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